Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good morning. Slash afternoon, everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So glad you're here for day 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give everyone a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's get started by
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking a few moments to come into the space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's comfortable to close your eyes, close your eyes, or else keep them open and go inward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering your breath.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): using these moments to call yourself present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): using these moments
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to come intentionally
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into this space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and into our work for the day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): placing a hand on your heart, connecting in with your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then connecting back in with your intention that you set yesterday morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering that intention coming back to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then either recommitting to it or seeing if it's shifted a little bit. And if it has, that's great, too. Noticing what the intention is at this point in our journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking a moment to seal it into your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then from there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coming back to the archetypal energy that you were working with yesterday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as much as is right for you. taking a few moments right now to reconnect with that new energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to call it in, call it forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): seeing if you can feel this archetypal energy in your body and around you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and asking it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is it that you would like for me to know today. Ask it to tell you what it wants you to know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Taking a nice deep breath in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): opening your eyes when you're ready if they're not already open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's good to see everybody. We've got a lot of work to do today. I'm so excited
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna start us off by having a little space to hear what's been moving through you since yesterday. What's really been resonating? What new awareness have come forward?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's come through in your dreams drop in.
Robyn Vogel: Well, I just wanted to say briefly that yesterday, when you said the flip of which is really the shadow of me, leaving A little while later, I was like, Oh, yeah, that that definitely is part of it.
Robyn Vogel: yeah. Like, leaving the club of people who are fill in the blank. Right?
Robyn Vogel: And which is.
Robyn Vogel: yeah. course, a shadow part, and also
Robyn Vogel: not a truth about me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right. Yeah. And there. And also it is a truth like there's a little bit of a departure from being in the club of people who are struggling or not making quite enough, or like whatever it is right, and being okay with that right and being that knowing that you're a good person, or whatever insertive right. But I think I think that that is the shadow to lead into of.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am someone who leaves sometime
Robyn Vogel: right and be accepting and loving of that part of you.
Robyn Vogel: Thank you. Yep, that's Baker.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for pointing that out and your brilliance. I appreciate it. Yeah, so glad it landed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: Good morning, everyone.
Nina von Feldmann: So what I have been sitting with, and what I was tuning into, especially this morning again, is a pattern that I keep hearing through all the trainings so far is slow down.
Nina von Feldmann: empty a little bit.
Nina von Feldmann: and yesterday, during our first breakout group, we had 2 min to read something that felt very important and
Nina von Feldmann: I realize when my nervous system for one. When I know there's a time limitation. I speed up really fast because I can download a lot of information really fast, and I get super ecstatic, but I lose everybody in the process.
Nina von Feldmann: I rattle other nervous systems in my effort to take care to make room for everybody. I compress myself and freak everyone else out.
Nina von Feldmann: So I
I'm really going to practice that spaciousness in delivery
Nina von Feldmann: and kindness towards the others, but also in service to the the whole thing that I'm worth wishing to deliver.
Nina von Feldmann: So that's been really resonant and alive for me right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad. Yeah. And I can feel that you're embodying that, and how important it is for your nervous system. And then energy follows energy. Then how everything you share is gonna land for your people and for their nervous systems
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. So excited to see what's gonna evolve from that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy.
Amy Barfield Martin: am I on? I can't. Okay. I must have my zoom set up really weird today. I don't know. I literally just woke up 30 min ago. So I'm like, I'm up. I'm here because I knew I wanted to be here this morning and to speak, I said, Th, this is important.
because what's been going on with me?
Amy Barfield Martin: I know I'm a great writer. I know I can write great copy, you know, so
Amy Barfield Martin: the written word is easy for me. It's just face to face. This is who I am. This is what I stand for, that that's harder. That's harder for me. So I like this really important to push myself beyond this
safety zone. Like. yeah, you know, and even I was in a group yesterday and lease, and I share what I
Amy Barfield Martin: wrote. And she said this really beautiful, and your energy was so up when you were reading it, but you deflate it after you were done. I'm like.
Amy Barfield Martin: Huh! Interesting. And that's that's been something I've been aware of for
Amy Barfield Martin: a couple of years. Now, you know, like energetically, my body wants to make me tired when it's in resistance. It's like resistance to showing up fully. And and my archetype is boldly radiant. It's like, Okay, you're wow. You're allowed to channel this archetype and show up, be seen. And
Amy Barfield Martin: you know if people can't handle it then too bad. So I love this. I love this share for so many reasons, because this is the first time that you're sharing. Yesterday I was kind of thankful on client. It's not me who's talking right now. You know, I was happy with Kate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I think it shows that something really important is happening, that you are right. You're like, I wanted to, you know, I just woke up half hour ago. But I want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here because I want to share, and you are coming forward radiance with with that energy like, I feel that as you're sharing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm wondering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is important for you to believe and remember, in order to keep on practicing. I get to be here. I have a right to belong. II did a lot of
Amy Barfield Martin: work with my inner child again. Work through this. I know the exact moment when I shut my voice down, you know, and I'm like.
Amy Barfield Martin: here we are again, you know, right? It can be like, Oh, here we are again, or it can be like, Oh, I'm actually ready for my next level of growth. So here, what I want my course to be about the the next level, the next level of growth.
Amy Barfield Martin: and a bigger part of it, is looking at all these fears, and I'm like, what's the fear I'm struggling with, and it and I'm like, maybe it's rejection. because talking with you here now and in this group there's a sense of safety. There's a trust.
Amy Barfield Martin: But but I got thinking. I said, what the client that's maybe not been established yet. So I'm like, how? How can I keep my heart open?
Amy Barfield Martin: It'd be radiant. You know that someone, you know. I guess you just love them, anyway, even if they do turn on you, even if they do attack you, cause I know you. You've probably been down that road where? And I accept that that's going to happen, and I will know how to handle it when it happens. II have enough trust in myself that II can handle that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, II feel that. And is it okay for us to take a minute to go a little deeper and anchor to the archetype? Boldly radiant. Yeah, okay, beautiful, is it okay to close your eyes or more comfortable? Yeah, okay, so come back into connecting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with that boldly radiant one who's always been there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You feel it. Yeah, beautiful, and ask this one what it wants you to know. If people are unkind or reject full.
Amy Barfield Martin: it's their own resistance and fears coming up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful good. Continue to be with it and ask it what it wants you to know about you in those situations.
Amy Barfield Martin: Hmm.
Amy Barfield Martin: I it's still okay to be present. It's it's necessary to
Amy Barfield Martin: not hide, you know. It's II can hold space for them and
Amy Barfield Martin: dur anise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, can you feel the truth of that in your body, Amy. Not 100. But what does that truth feel like? 80 in your heart.
Amy Barfield Martin: expansive
Amy Barfield Martin: and like budding? It's like a flower that's not quite bloom, but it's it's
Amy Barfield Martin: it's on its way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Amy Barfield Martin: lead into that. Take one more moment with that feeling.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and let that truth drop in even more. It is okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): don't. It is necessary to not hide. can't hold the space even
when
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel that
Amy Barfield Martin: right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful? Good. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, that your last words oh, hold space for myself.
Amy Barfield Martin: you know.
So that's often night.
Amy Barfield Martin: I mean, I I'm really good at boundaries and downtime. But yeah, but holding space for that. That radiance is something I need more practice with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's exactly what I was. Gonna say, it's a practice, right, just like anything else, so that you have one to come back to Yay, and it's so good to see you and hear you in all of your bold Radians. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Annalise.
Annelise Pesa: So first of all, I don't know if I I'm sure I had some dreams, but I slept so well, really, really well, and it was like past 11 for me yesterday. So I thought, I'm gonna be so tired. But I actually felt asleep. And it was beautiful. And today
Annelise Pesa: I just came back to this energy very often for many things, not just, you know the marketing, or just like
Annelise Pesa: coming back to that energy. And I just felt really an important shift.
Annelise Pesa: And I, you know, like Amy, I've been working on myself for many, many years, and I mean talking yeah, quite a while, but it's almost like I was climbing this mountains thinking.
Annelise Pesa: yes, I'm this is asking me if I'm speaking Italian. My God! All the time. And and now I feel almost, and I don't know if it's just a sensation. I'm on the top of the mountain ready to fly, and I may fall, and I may hurt myself, but the difference is
Annelise Pesa: that I just feel excited. I feel
Annelise Pesa: I'm sure there is more work to do, more peeling, and but I just feel excited to market, and I've been doing marketing course, and you know they're being useful and everything. But
Annelise Pesa: you know, then you kind of do the things, but they don't belong to you. Now I feel like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am going to give birth to marketing. It belongs to me so. Yes, yes, it belongs to you. You own it, you get to do it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your way. And and yes, there is always risk right like what you're saying. But you can know the risk and also be excited
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the same time.
Annelise Pesa: I'm so happy to hear it. Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else I feel like? There's another share or 2 out there. What's moving through you? What's been resonating? What's been coming together since yesterday? What wants to be shared or spoken
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wants to share? I know there's some. There's some other things that want to be spoken.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie.
Dr. Josie: I'll share quick. I just. I woke up about an hour and a half ago, but I'm still processing my dreams. I've been doing so much dream work these days.
But I was in in my dream. I was in all these other people's vehicles driving around. And then, at the end of the dream, I finally realized it was like I get to pick my own vehicle and create my own vehicle and drive it because there were problems with everybody else's, and I was always like the passenger in it.
Dr. Josie: So it was really cool. So that's so beautiful. I mean, I don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't want to put words in, or, you know, just make assumptions for you. What's feeling important about that dream? What are you seeing for yourself in it?
Dr. Josie: That I'm that
Dr. Josie: that I have been like in a supporting role in passenger to a lot of people in my life all the way back from like parents and uncles and boyfriends, and this and that and that. Now I get to decide what vehicle is right for me entirely.
Dr. Josie: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love it. It's so beautiful. It feels like so much more freedom. And it reminds me of the dragon that is like I get right I get for me
Dr. Josie: and that dragon. It's like the angel in the dragon merged by the end of yesterday into like this like white, angelic dragon like covered in roses. So it was really beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. So, you know, with all that work and the dream coming through. One thing you can do, Josie, when you have a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is, ask the Angel Dragon to tell you about the vehicle that it wants for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you know. Kind of channel, some of the wisdom to to start to, to bring it together.
Dr. Josie: Oh, cool.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really, really nice. I'm so excited.
Dr. Josie: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything that anyone wants to share. We spoke a little bit at the end of the day yesterday about we got a little meta around the curriculum yesterday, and facilitation yesterday. Anything that has been you've been thinking about curriculum wise that you noticed yesterday, or facilitation wise that you noticed yesterday that you want to pull on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One thing that I wanted to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): point out is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): did you all notice how we went deep?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So much happened? But there really wasn't much curriculum at all
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. I didn't teach 10 different things. I actually didn't teach anything like in our work is important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And and then I took you through a series. I don't remember how many questions in the morning. It was maybe 6 questions about what's happening now, right? The fears and the beliefs, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then in the afternoon, we did one simple process which was just channeling the archetype.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And yet so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything more that wants to just be spoken on that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or questions on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing about all of it is that we activated all 4 levels of learning and processing without having to do 4 different things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? It's not like there was one exercise that was just cognitive, and one exercise that was just emotional and one exercise that was just spirit and one exercise that was just somatic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We were able, even just in the morning we were starting to hit all 4 levels. Robin, did you have your hand raised.
Robyn Vogel: Well, I was just gonna say that a lot happened energetically. And you know, in the energetic and the emotional realms. And I think when that is the focus. The cognitive piece isn't
Robyn Vogel: always necessary, and also can be too much, you know. Sort of you. You felt it at the end we like went into this what I would call an energetic vortex, where, at least for me, like taking in anything else, I was done. That happened for me quite early. Actually, that happened for me like before we went into the breakout rooms with the 3 to share my sort of capacity was
Robyn Vogel: probably at my limit. But everybody's different.
Robyn Vogel: so I think that's just an awareness that I have around like when my own capacity is reached or the group capacity is reached without
Robyn Vogel: going into like a teaching component or something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely absolutely anything. Capacity. You're it's like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): personal. And I've also found on Zoom. Sometimes the capacity is reached sooner than in person, too. That's just been an observation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else on any of that that wants to be spoken before we dive in for today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so we are going to get into
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): nitty gritties today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a couple of things that I want to share as just a general backdrop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we start to work our way through sales page and sales page writing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one just real talk.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is it takes time to create a sales page for any program that's 4 weeks or longer. I don't think I've ever spent less than 7 or 8 h total
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): writing. Now I am like a go back and editor, you know all my Virgo stuff and and words, and all of that, so maybe it could be a little shorter than that. But but I just I'm putting it out there to just normalize it. You know, it's it's a process and a journey to put together a sales page for shorter things, and I'll show you an example, if not today, tomorrow of kind of a shorter, just a 90 min preview. It doesn't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, a sales page or an opt in page? It doesn't take as long. But I I'm just saying it's a it's a process right. We don't want to be perfectionist about anything, but at the same time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the words do matter, and it takes some time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): actually, I think, for right now, that's all I'm going to say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a backdraw
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we go into this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first, I wanna give us an overview of the components of a simple sales, page or letter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I recommend for pretty much anything that you do, to have something written for people to look at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whether it is a page on your website, you know, online, or a Pdf or word document, or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And let me share my screen. Hold on a second.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our curriculum. And you all ha have this in your member center. just like in our curriculum or in our program, or in our retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are taking our heroes on a journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a sales, page or letter. We are taking our readers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pretty much on that same journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but in a condensed way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's number one. We that I just want you to be thinking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about. And the thing that is really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): makes things convenient is it's the same, the same journey we're taking people on in our curriculum and through our program is the journey we're taking them on the sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we've got
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to know where our heroes are starting. We've got to know where our heroes are ending, and we've got to know the steps in between. And that is essentially what the sales page is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you know, we always start. And I'm gonna go through this overarching. And then we're gonna really get it. We're gonna go piece by piece and have time to write things, etc. But first I just want to give you an overview.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're always gonna start with a header, a subtitle right? What? What is this journey that we're going on?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll show you examples of that as we get into the details of the sections. and then we are going to take some time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): show the reader where they are beginning on their journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we'll talk about how to do that. and then we're gonna take some time to write about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and tell the reader where they can end up. If they take this journey right where the end of the journey is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in marketing. Speak. This is called activating gap and activating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): vision. We'll get more into the nitty-gritties of all of that in a few minutes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're, gonna you know, once we've done that, we've established for people. This is where you're starting when you start the course. This is where you're ending when you end the course. So then we need to bridge the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We need to paint a picture, and show them how the course or the retreat is going to take them step
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by staff, by staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to reach the end of the journey, the goals that they want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these are your steps, these are your modules, right? These are the the pieces of your hero's journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So after we've done that. Then we're gonna invite them into the course. We're gonna make an invitation. We're gonna tell them how they can take a next step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes the next step is to register. Sometimes the next step is to have a conversation, sometimes it's something else. Again, we're going to get into all of the details of this over the next day and half.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that's really the whole journey right, that that is the hero's journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then there are other things that we want in addition, on the sales page that we'll look at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): testimonials. Your bio we want to just like in our courses. We want to speak to resistances on our sales page. We want to speak to resistance. So that's what we're gonna go over all of those pieces in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, starting in a few minutes. But I just wanted to first show you that journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without asking questions on the specific pieces, because we're gonna get deep into each of the specific pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll just pause for a moment. Just any thoughts, anything clicking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what I just shared with you. Anything that wants to be said.
got it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Annelise?
Annelise Pesa: My question is, is this sales letter which I actually have? I have one already, which I prepared few months ago.
Annelise Pesa: is this the applicable also to one to one? And is the conversation that we have for a group a program different from a one to one
Annelise Pesa: coaching program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first question, yes, it is applicable. So for my private programs these days, because I'm not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like out publicly selling a lot of private programs. I don't share a whole sales letter. It's a different kind of thing. But for over a decade I had
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a word document
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that that laid out gap vision. You know how we're gonna do this, the steps, the components. the pricing. It had testimonials in it. How to buy, you know all all of the pieces, and I do recommend
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having a document like that, and I can share we're not look at today, but I can share in our member center. A template of how it looks for a private
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sales. That will be very helpful. Thank you. Yeah. I'll do that for sure. What was the second question.
Annelise Pesa: If basically, we invite people to a conversation after the sales after the sales letter?
Annelise Pesa: You know, like, how is this come with like? Is there like a conversation follow up, or is just like.
Annelise Pesa: you know, similar to the one that we have in one to one, because I find that in one to one is more bespoken with in a course, of course, if someone comes to life, changing course is different from sacred depth. So, whereas if one comes for one to one is more bespoken, so are there different between the conversation that you have? No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not at all. You're still and actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me share my screen again
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you that have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): slogged through my my 5 h training on how to have sales, conversations. You. You already know this. But just in case and for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this here activate, gap, activate, vision, share the bridge, make an invitation, and next steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is exactly what you want to do in any sales conversation for a one on one or a group, and any of you that had a conversation with caitlin or Inval to come into this program if you think back on it. This is exactly the journey they took you through.
Annelise Pesa: Hmm!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great.
Annelise Pesa: thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen. That's in your sacred depths. Member center under bonuses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's a the sales. Conversation training is not included. In life changing courses it's in. It's in secret.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Any other thoughts before we start to jump in?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No, okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna start easy and simple. And with some review, because I know, sometimes writing can marketing, writing. Can you bring up a lot if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you start to get anxious, or into your old stories or into your old fears
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we move through the writing parts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Come back to your archetype. take a moment. find the energy that you want to be in. Ask your archetype what it wants you to know about the writing that you're doing right, and then move back into the flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You might need to do that 5 times during a writing session. That's fine. Alright. keep on coming back to the energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? I asked everybody to bring your heroes at a beginning and end wherever you're at with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): To this session. And hopefully, you can see why now, because we're gonna use the heroes beginning and the hero's ending
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we do our writing of of the different sections of the sales page. So I wanna give some of you know your beginning and ending really. Well, you know you've nailed it. You own it. You're all you know. It's full, it's complete. And then for some of you, not as much. Wherever you are, on that spectrum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is of value for us to spend a few minutes right now sharing about it, talking about it. To help you either develop it more. Get some insights on a piece that might be missing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and or just so that you can own it more and get better about the words that you use, how you're talking about it, etc. So to that end.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna go into breakout rooms. And each person will have let me just do some math based on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time. Hold on a second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have some time for this, so each person will have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 8 min to share your heroes beginning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and your heroes ending as much as you have of it. It can be extensive if it's really really extensive. You might not want to share every little last thing, or even if you only have a couple of ideas, I shouldn't say. Only this is an opportunity to get feedback, to develop it more, to see what lands with people. What doesn't land with people and for you to develop your ideas as you talk it out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So you'll have 8 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I recommend, you know, not spending more than 3 or 4 sharing the beginning and the end with your partners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then asking your partners, you know which of the if, if you are an ideal client for this program, or even if you're not, if you could put yourself in the shoes, what landed for you. Where do you think I could go further? Is there another limiting belief that I didn't think of is you know this, that, or the other thing because these are details that are going to be potentially
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really important in your sales. Page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any questions before we go out into breakouts.
let me get us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hold on 1 s.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know that there are. Also there's so much sickness going around and people not feeling well, of course, you know, if you can show up for the breakout room or not, if you can in any way like it's okay. You don't have to show up in your absolute, best.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? We. It's okay. In this space. You, if you feel like you can show up as you are, let your partners know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a sense it will be valuable. But also, you know where you're today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
let me get this together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We don't have an even amount of people. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see what I'm doing here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's gonna it looks like there's gonna be one group of 4. So if you're in the group of 4. You'll have 2 min left.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll come around, too. like I did yesterday. Okay, enjoy everybody
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'd love to hear from a few of you, you know, like having more time. Yay, I'd love to hear just any
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): new. I inspired ideas. Awareness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What what came through. That's feeling important. Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: okay, I love this group of women. It's incredible.
Jennifer Rose Gens: the type of container. Oh, I'm so sorry I love this group of folks. It's absolutely incredible. I used to be in another mastermind, and Nina kinda reminded me this morning of just
Jennifer Rose Gens: you know, when we're we're like frantically talking it a little. It was just like creates such anxiety. And we're all so sensitive.
And it's it was
Jennifer Rose Gens: just amazing in this mastermind that I used to be in. I was told that I needed to pick relationships or purpose clarity as my niche, and I just got this great hit in in the
Jennifer Rose Gens: group that I was in of like.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Oh, I really get to claim it even more. I've been claiming it. But now, in my messaging, I get to claim it even more, and that it is more niche in that way. And yeah, it was just so nice to like be with these grounded
Jennifer Rose Gens: presences, and just to not feel like, Oh, I have to choose one or the other, and there's an eagle flying outside of my window right now. That's cool. Yeah, just
Jennifer Rose Gens: the container that you set is so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): safe to be able to claim what it is that we really actually want to do. So yeah, that kind of came through. I wasn't expecting it to come through so strongly actually is important. And there are ways to speak to both
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One thing I noticed as I was popping in and out of groups, and I mentioned in some of the groups, this is gonna become more important as we go into writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Marketing likes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): specifics over generalities.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what that means is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the difference between at the end of a journey, saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're going to feel more empowered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): versus
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you will feel empowered to be able to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Y or Z.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The difference between
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you'll be happier in your relationship versus.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You'll be happier in your relationship because it will look like A, B or C.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense difference between specifics and generalities? And I'll keep on, reminding that to all of you as we move through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then another thing that I mentioned in a couple of the groups
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our curriculum. Everything that we learn about curriculum and facilitation applies to marketing. Right? So just like we're learning in our curriculum that we want to activate all 4 levels of learning and processing for our hero's experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want to think about that lightly with our marketing as well. So in other words, if we don't only wanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): evoke ideas in marketing. We want to evoke feelings. We want people to have an emotional resonance. We want people to feel like some of what we say comes from a higher place of wisdom.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want to talk about how people are going to feel in their body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so we're gonna take a break in a minute. And then when we come back, we're gonna start to look at the first piece of writing. I'm gonna give instruction. And we're gonna we're gonna get to go into that before we do just anything else that came through in the breakout rooms that feels important or that you have a question on, you know, in relation to what we're doing today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate.
Kate Toye: Oh, thank you. I just want to so celebrate my room Kathleen and Anika. Just oh, my God! I'm so grateful for you to almost moves me to tears, and just to have that safe space to really share this place that I felt was a really push and pull and how do I support women who love their careers and love their kids? And what I was able to
Kate Toye: when I was able to share the start and finish just the the space that was held, and
Kate Toye: just so much grace and so much honest conversation. And also I was really concerned. I didn't want this to look like more shooting on women
Kate Toye: and
Kate Toye: and what really came forward was, this is really empowering for women, and this is really a place that can hold women in both of their loves. And so I'm just so very grateful for my room, and I'm so very grateful for what they shared as well cause I love all of these threads that I think all of us are doing here that is, supporting people in ways that resonates for them, and we are all coming together with healing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad, and I can feel it. And also, Kate. my sense is that that piece that you shared about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the shoulding for women? If it there's a place for that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on your sales page to really speak to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. let's
take a break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we're gonna come back at 1240 at Eastern, and we're gonna keep on going. We'll go until 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll hang out for a minute a few minutes right now, if anybody needs anything, but if not, I'll see you at 1240.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Let's come back together. If you're here. put your camera on, please, if you can. Just so I know that you're back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's start to get into each of the sections of the sales. Page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I showed you earlier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From the journey that I showed you earlier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can't get it on my screen. It's okay. There's a title and a header, which is first, we're gonna look at that tomorrow. Cause in some ways, that's the hardest part. So we're gonna we're gonna get to that tomorrow where I wanna start
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is with activating the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like in our curriculum, it's important at the beginning of a program to share with people about where they are at currently
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So that they not only so, we know that that journey is happening, and it has a starting place, same thing in our marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what this means, and looks like in our marketing is that we want to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): get into our prospects heads. and really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a very compassionate and shame free way. And I'm gonna come back to that. That phrase in a moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really evoke
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of the places that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your prospect is in right now that they don't really want to be in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It is so important to do this in our sales page and in our marketing for a couple of reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it helps create more awareness for the prospect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what they don't want anymore. And the more awareness they have on what they don't want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more inspired and motivated. They are going to be to want to do something to change that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And your course might be the thing that they do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to change that alright. So that's number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number 2. The second reason why it is important to evoke and share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is not going so well right now. For your prospect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is so that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): seen and heard. They're like, Oh. wait! This person like let's say it's my sales page. Joanna actually gets me. She's not talking to every single person out there in the world and general, and but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she knows what's going on inside of my head. She and she knows what's happening in my experience. This could be a course that could be very valuable for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it is for me
right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The third reason why it's important to do. Do this, and this is where we get to the compassion and shame, free peace. When we do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we all know I don't have to like. Get on my soapbox too much about this. We've seen the marketing out there that is shaming right? That is like you're in this position, and it makes you feel bad that you're in this situation, that you're feeling these things. It makes you feel terrible about all the things that is not what we as ethical entrepreneurs and change makers are doing when we activate gaps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are doing this just like we learned for our courses. We are doing this in a way that normalizes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are doing this in a way that has people activate more compassion for themselves, for where they are, whether they end up buying from us or not. This is a service. We are one of the services we are doing in our marketing, right? We are normalizing, and we are activating compassion for the reader. We are showing them that they are not alone
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as we move through the sales page, we're showing them that they're there, that they have already all of the resources inside of themselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be able to change this if they want to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they are okay, whether they do or don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense so far? Just kind of as an overview.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna show an example or 2 of this in a moment, and we'll go through it a little bit more. But first, just anything that's popping, feeling important, anything you want to underline on what I just said or question. Kathy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are you talking? If you're talking, Kathy, you're on mute
Cathy Norris: in in the okay, in the part where? You know you're
Cathy Norris: you're sharing who they are, just helping them see where they are that they don't wanna be so I started creating my course like a year ago. And
Cathy Norris: II interviewed 25 Hr. Professionals before I did my pilot, and I got all of these specifics.
Cathy Norris: Then, as I in this process of
Cathy Norris: of creating in my course. II was like, well, I need to put them together, you know. Summarize them somehow. And you know I went to
Cathy Norris: AI and got got the
Cathy Norris: got it to put them together, you know, and find phrases. and and now I am, and and also with the help of another coach, I say, no, I need to have very specific situations. Now, my question is,
Cathy Norris: there are people with different specific situations.
Cathy Norris: so I'm thinking now it doesn't. That doesn't matter. Just add. you know, as many deep, pertinent ones as I can. And yeah, if they identified with one of them, that will be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That is it? Exactly? I'm so glad you're asking this question, because I know a lot. This is true for a lot of people here, right and same with the vision when we get to it. It doesn't. Everything you write doesn't have to apply to every single person. But you wanna be specific. This is why I'm a big fan in these sections of bullet points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So so that, I am like getting to the specifics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone that is gonna be aligned for the course that reads the page. There's gonna be a couple of those specific, if not all, then at least a couple that hits them. So we don't have to make
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every single little last
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): example apply
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to every person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, great. So let's that's a great kind of lead in to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): looking at some examples. So let me show you a few.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, some of you might recognize this. This is the life changing courses, sales. Page again, we're gonna come back to the first section later.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, before we look at this together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am going to tell you all again. I am wordy right. You do not need to use
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): nearly as many words
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as I do, especially if it's a shorter course, but really any length. It is just this is who I am right, so so it does not have to be as long. My, my, I and I will say I think my sales pages are too long.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and one day I will make them shorter hopefully. So that being, said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I, in the life changing courses, sales page, I am activating the gap in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): compassionate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): non shaming way in a couple of different ways and a and you don't have to use all of these. But I just want to show you a couple of examples. So one is in this this first section.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you are sorry I can't read my whole screen. Hold up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're a seasoned leader, but not taking your groups as deep or transformative as you like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That is one example of a gap. And actually, Kathy, to your question this is why I had this whole section here. First, because there's 3 types of people that are gonna come into life changing courses. And so I just address this upfront. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is right seasoned teacher, seasoned leader, but not taking your groups as transformative as you like. Right? That is one place starting place.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're a new course, Creator, who's scared because you don't know how to create curriculum or lead groups. Right? That's a different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): still appropriate for life changing courses, but a little bit of a different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if you haven't been able to figure out how to lead your programs, lead programs that have participate participants buying from you over and over again. Right? So right here I'm talking a little bit to at least 2 different people, possibly 3 and 3 different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): examples of gap of where they might be starting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now. Some people might leave it here, but II didn't. I went on a little bit longer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this section of writing is to evoke a little more emotion and also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to help normalize that if you are having any of these issues that I mentioned above like to not have shame. It's not your fault. This is kind of because of the industry.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? It's not you. It's not that there's anything wrong
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with you. And also this does evoke more of the gap. Too many, not so great courses have given the transformational industry a bad reputation. Those courses fail to deliver on their marketing promises, and often leave participants feeling regretful that they signed up. In the first place. Right? So again, while I'm also taking the shame and normalizing out, I'm evoking more of the gap right? I know my people because they are ethical, because they want to do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a good job they want to deliver on their marketing promises. I know that my people do not want participants feeling regretful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So that's kind of what this section was about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but this could have been much shortened. Again. I have many words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, to make sure that I covered all the like to help really get into people's heads.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And show them. Yes, I understand where you are at right now. I just have my laundry list. I have my bullet points. You're done with feeling that your content sounds like everyone else's. You're done with knowing your courses don't go nearly as deep as they put you're done with wishing your group cart participants could experience the magic in depth. Your one on one clients receive. Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II just hit on many of the different pieces that I know are frustrating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna show you one other example
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of how you can do this. Did the screen change for all of you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One of my courses which some of you might know called navigating client resistance. It's about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how to support your one on one client, mostly one on one, but groups 2. you know, when when clients are in resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So here I start out again similar with the life changing courses. Right? I'm kind of doing more talking before the laundry list. I don't have to tell you that the transformational industry has become saturated with so many practitioners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It seems like more and more people are hanging out their shingle every day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that's a good thing right. I'm not knocking that again, and I'm not making it seem so dire and catastrophic. It's the end of the world, right like I'm saying, that's a good thing the world needs. Our voices, our talents are healing. Right? So I'm keeping it all so hopeful. I'm not going into this deep dark. It's terrible right like, unless you do this. It's doomed right, all the things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I know my people are thinking, how do you stand out? And a saturated market, and usually where they go to is I need to go to do this site, you know, like all these different marketing things which are great. But my message is, stand out by being an exceptional practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and one of the ways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is to have effective skills to navigate through resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there I go into my laundry list again right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have you ever had a client that started strong and motivated, then stopped doing the homework, and decided it wasn't worth their time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): procrastinates instead of taking simple actions. Have you, or had a client tell you this might be right, so I'm getting so one of the reasons why I wanted to show you this is, I'm getting in. Sometimes you can just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): write what they're thinking in their heads.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Like, literally quote what you think they're thinking.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm also doing some education even here you're left wonder, wondering, worrying, stressing what the heck happened. Well, resistance happened. It's not that you're a bad practitioner. It's not like this was some out of the, you know. Weird thing. Resistance happened, and then I go on to describe resistance. But we'll get there in a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's coming together? What are you seeing here that feels important? What wants to be shared or spoken for? Asked
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, take yourself off mute.
Cathy Norris: So what? So what you just shared was at the end was
Cathy Norris: after the bullet points has been in educating, and so the reason you know the reason behind why
Cathy Norris: you're in this gap.
Cathy Norris: Is something they don't know like in for me, it's my, my program focuses on
Cathy Norris: emotional self awareness. So so maybe bringing something like that in, it's because you're ignoring your emotions, you know, whatever. But do you always do that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That it's such a good question. Not always always like. I don't have it in the the journey that you know I put out for you, but I do do it sometimes, and it's a nice turning point, and we'll get there. Once
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're done with Gap, I'll I'll show you different examples, because the turning point can be longer. You're a little more, or the turning point can just be a big statement. That's one of your messages, right? Because my message and navigating client. Resistance is, if if you want to really do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): effective work with clients, you need to know how to navigate persistence. Very simple. Right? So sometimes it can just be as simple as that. But yeah, it's like, that's the turning point that can be a turning point. That education piece which is also your message to then speak about the vision.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What's clicking for you? What do you notice about this? What do you want to say about it, Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think the piece that's really sticking out for me is that if you're a seasoned leader, if you haven't been able to do this, if you're a course creator who's scared, and just the idea that. And I'm connecting this with my own stuff around like people can be a different point in the journey and still get something out of it. And that feels really important, like you're not trying to talk to just
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but one single person. I get really caught in that a lot, because she's just not
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): all these different things. She might be at different points along the journey, or have different qualities or capacity that is different from someone else, but still be able to extract a lot from the experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And then different courses. It's gonna be different. Right. So, for example, for for advanced stuff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for someone who's never coached or been a practitioner before, that's not appropriate, right? So it's also about knowing your journey. And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who? Who is it appropriate?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): 4. Yeah, thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily's.
Annelise Pesa: So Joanna is is following what kelly was saying. So how much specific do we need to be in terms of nishing, because
Annelise Pesa: there is a lot of a focus on, you know, for marketing coaches that you know, like they say, Oh, you know, you need to niche, and you need to.
Annelise Pesa: You know. Just be talking to your ideal client. But
Annelise Pesa: it, the, you know, like transformational, transformational life. Changing courses.
Annelise Pesa: talks to people that yeah want to do courses. Maybe that's the niche. But they're different like from background. And
Annelise Pesa: so how much niche. Do you need to do?
This is just my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): opinion, but I don't wanna say this is truth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it's more important to find the connecting threads between the desires, the fears, the beliefs, the wants.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the worries versus the this demographic or that demographic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's that's how I operate. It's very helpful. Thank you. Yeah. good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you all ready to do some writing? I'm gonna give you specific instructions. Don't worry. But I just want to see if there are any other thoughts or anything that wants to be said or questions before we go into writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nope.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, so I I'm gonna give you the link
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the example, from life changing courses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again. You don't have to write that much. It doesn't have to look like that. But just so that you have. If you want something to refer to, I can't do it for the navigating client resistance, because apparently it's not live on my website right now, and it's just like in a back channel. And what I was showing you was you need like passwords, and whatever to get in so hopefully, less is more. You have one example. Yeah, Kate.
Kate Toye: I don't. This is just calling to be. I don't. This is calling to be put into the circle. So when I read through. I knew I wanted to do this course, and I knew that it was because it was you that was facilitating this course. And so when I read through those I didn't. But I feel I take my like those didn't hit so
Kate Toye: so profoundly. However, there was really a part of me that wanted to ensure that I'm do. Do you know what I mean? Like? Ensure I'm on the right track, ensure that I'm taking them as deep as I. So I think even like reading between the lines, I will call. I don't know. I got this really like there's there's even something else that is spoken to in there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you articulate that a little more cause it feel what you're seeing feels important? And I wanna I wanna make sure I'm really getting it
Kate Toye: so when you say so
Kate Toye: II don't know that I can. II didn't. The the bullets that were up did not resonate
Kate Toye: did not resonate in a way that I'm going to take this course because of these. What I saw in those was, I do feel that I do this, I do feel that I do this. I do feel that I do this. However, I know Joanna's world, and I want to ensure that I am doing that to the best possible way that I. So there was like this, this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just this want in me to ensure that I'm on that track. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I'm glad you're bringing this up right because it's not. And again, this is the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also, the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit of the not shaming piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I see it as part of it is like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, everybody all already, and different levels of skills and a and knowledge and all that. But everybody already is amazing, right when I go to write even my gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I think this is what you mean with between the lines, energetically.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have so much love and respect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for every person that I'm writing to, even as I'm naming what the gaps are. And so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think that's what came through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you of like. No, it doesn't mean you have to be in dire straits to need this. You can already be brilliant at incredible and doing so much of it, and there's so much to like going deeper or leaning into it more.
Kate Toye: And and if I could just build on that, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what I think you just hit on. There was also the energy of what is between the lines of when we create our marketing like, what is our intention. What is the energy and what is between the lines that our people that are following us are going to? They're just gonna know that ripples through like II don't know why, but it feels necessary to put this in the space. No, I'm so glad that you're sharing it, and it relates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what we did yesterday, and to part of the assignment which is, write, energy follows energy, and I'm gonna encourage everyone to start the writing by moving back into the your archetype and have your archetype do some of this writing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ray
Rai Jordan: actually have a question. Was it, Kate that was just speaking?
Rai Jordan: For both.
Rai Jordan: Yo, you, Joanna and Kate! Can you articulate a bit more about that
Rai Jordan: notion of between the lines? Because I'm intrigued by it? I feel like there's something in there for me. But I'm not clear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it okay? If I speak for you, Kate?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, II think what Kate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was meaning, or at least how I took it, which resonates for me is is back to energy, follows energy. So. And you know this from sacred depth and right. It's not just the words that we use, whether it's writing or speaking like I am now, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is the intention behind the words. It is the energy behind the words. Right? It's like there's a feeling and an energy that comes through, even if not all the exact things were said. And so that's why we wanna be clear on what our energy is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we go to teach before we go to be with clients before we go to write our marketing.
Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): getting getting us and more into the pieces of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so this is what we're gonna do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're going to do the gap into 2 pieces. We're going to get to our bullet list, you know of things. Second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first part of this, and, by the way, everything is an experiment. Right? We're not going for perfection. We're just like we're we're. We're experimenting. Remember what I said earlier. It takes me hours and hours, right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm going to ask you in a minute to move back into the energy of your archetype
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to channel a loving and compassionate message to the ideal client for your course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about where they are right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you don't have to overthink it later on, when you go to edit you can. You can no overthink it, but you can think it. But first I want to give you some time to channel a message on the gap right, which, again, is a loving and compassionate message, where you evoke
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your prospect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where they are right now?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or what is it that you want them to know about where they are now. Okay, some of this already came up in some of your writings yesterday. See if a little more wants to come today, you can, you know, put it all together. So I'm gonna put this into the chat. And I'm gonna give you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 10 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to see what wants to come.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe it's helpful. If I as a group, we all come back into the energy, and then you can start
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right in.
So take a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and either with your eyes open or closed. come back to presence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And actually, what I want to invite you to do first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is open your heart to your ideal client, to the person who will be reading your page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and see if you can actually feel your heart opening to this one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who is amazing and brilliant and resourceful, but who also is in a place where they don't want to be right. Now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): start to feel a connection to your ideal client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to to what they're struggling with inner and outer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So your heart's straight to theirs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there call in the archetypal energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask it to channel through you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a note to them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): evoking where they are right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with a ton of love and compassion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you've got 10 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, everyone! 10 min is up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And Hi, Monica, I'm glad you're here. We're doing some marketing writing. I think you you can kind of catch up with what we're going to do next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I promise we're gonna have more time on this section in a minute. But if you can, if everyone can just pause for a moment in your writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna show you a just a little bit of a different example in case you were like, Oh, my gosh!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's a lot of writing in the example that Joanna showed and also I think it will give you some other ideas. So here's another example of gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is for a 5 h home study that I have. But this is, you know, anything, any class that's a little shorter. This, this is an appropriate amount. So the the this course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): teaches people how to have sales, conversations in authentic and ethical ways. So the gap is just 2 very short
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sections here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's the ever-present conundrum of high integrity. Soul led practitioners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I get into people's heads right. How do I thrive as a business owner while maintaining my ethics as a leader. How do I make it without selling out?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How can I make more sales and charge my worth in a way that provides value.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How do I bring on clients in a way that is not aggressive or salesy? Right? These are all
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): questions that my ideal client for this program they've got going on in their heads is like, Oh, my, gosh! What? How is this ever gonna happen? Right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I just have a little bit more on Gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The way that most coaches and transformational leaders have been taught to sell is based on incongruent tactics that actually damage the relationship.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And a road trust. And the very people you want to help. you've most likely figured out already that this doesn't actually work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It doesn't work for your potential clients, and it doesn't work for you. And it didn't work for me either, nor for the coaches I train and mentor in sacredets.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That was the whole gap
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for all of this. I'm just getting straight to the point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this now. I could have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): gone longer with some bullet points on scenarios of what happens to people in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sales conversations when they when they go sideways or they don't work, you know you get you all of a sudden. You don't say the price that you said you thought you were. Gonna say, but you go into a lower price, you know, you might like all all the different things, and that might actually help strengthen this sales page. We'll get to the bullet points next. But I just wanted to show you a different example of a a shorter
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): evoking the the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So with that I have a feeling you probably all want to do a little more writing on this first piece, so let's take another 5 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Come back to the love and compassion in your heart for your Prasta.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): come back to your architectural energy. What more do you want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your prospects to know about where they are right now? And I'm gonna add this to why they're there right now, that may or may not be relevant. But in the 2, in the couple of examples that I gave you on my sales pages
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I spoke to. Why, usually it's all because of the transformational industry and trainings are missing people up, you know, in my case, right? But maybe speak a little bit to why they are where they are. Now, if that's relevant for your person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll give you 5 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, Monica, if you have questions just ask in the chat. I'm glad you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're gonna have 10 more minutes for writing, and I wanna add this into the mix for those of you who are ready for it, or who wanna move on to it. You can start to add now some bullet points with. If if you want, you don't need bullet points at all. But if you want some bullet points with more specifics, if you don't get, if you're not getting to the specifics in the writing that you've already done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can start to add that to the mix as well, and you've got examples on the pages that I've I've shown you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with that. So we'll go until 1 40 on all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hey?
So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's come back together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): knowing that this is just the beginning of the Gap section. You're like, Oh, my gosh! I didn't finish, I promise you. That is very normal. And it wasn't expecting anybody to finish. But this is about getting, you know, starting to lay down roots for this section.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'd love to hear how it went.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How'd it go? What do you love. What do you hate? What are you seeing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ray?
Rai Jordan: This was really good for me, and I also struggled.
Rai Jordan: and I'm so grateful that we had the opportunity to.
Rai Jordan: I have 10 min and then 10 min, 5 min, because each time I was able to get at it
Rai Jordan: because
Rai Jordan: the way that my mind works, and also the resistance comes up.
Rai Jordan: I can't do this. I don't know how to do this, so I have to like work through that. And so each time I would say, I don't have it, and then we'd have we come back.
Rai Jordan: And there it was, and so what I ended up doing because I asked my archetype was before you just start writing, identify what the 3 points are. And I ended up with 5.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's crazy.
Rai Jordan: And then the other thing is that there was one. It was like.
I can't say that.
Rai Jordan: That that might come off too harsh. It doesn't sound compassionate, but it's the truth. And then we went into another. We another, you know, I think 5 min, and then it came in a more softer way. So I. It's I don't have the full letter, but I have a template. I have an outline that I can go in, and and my the archetype, which for me is the bold and radiant one was like.
Rai Jordan: this, truth needs to be told.
Rai Jordan: and when I do my writing I've never really approached it this way I just start stating stuff. And so now I have a way to really speak to the heart and essence, not what I think.
Rai Jordan: not what from the you know, the facilitator, but also starting from them. And it's amazing what that activates in me. And I know that that will be felt between the lines. Yes, exactly. That's that's one of the reasons why I love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking people through this process, because it can be just such a different way of writing. Not that there isn't resistance or stuck places, but with some more flow with the the energetics that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know you wanna have in place. Good! I'm so glad. Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
I really liked how you mentioned the gap in
Jennifer Rose Gens: helping our prospect. Understand why they are there.
Jennifer Rose Gens: which was kind of yeah, just a slightly different. Take on all of this to me.
Jennifer Rose Gens: To normalize that which makes sense with your work. And I've been told, you know, in the past to be careful about.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Hmm
Jennifer Rose Gens: kind of like bypassing where we what what they know versus, what we know.
Jennifer Rose Gens: if that makes sense. And I was curious. If you could speak to that in the realm of this
normalization.
Jennifer Rose Gens: like, for instance, with my work, I'm talking about kind of deconditioning the culture like, hey? It's not your fault that you don't have it all figured out, because, for instance, we've grown up in a society where we were told what to do for so long.
Jennifer Rose Gens: That feels like, kind of like, oh, yeah, everyone can kinda
Jennifer Rose Gens: get behind that. But yeah, I just wanted to see what you had to say about not like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bypassing the app. Yeah, II mean to me. I don't see that as bypassing right. If if you were to say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because your father said exactly this to you. Then it's like so narrow, right? But you're you're you're leaving open so many possibilities
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that. Why, that you're giving
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I to me. I don't see how that could be a bypassing at all.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I'm more saying, directing it towards like
Jennifer Rose Gens: unveiling something they don't
Jennifer Rose Gens: already know which this is asking them to look at it from a different angle. Right? And like, Hey, actually, it's not your fault, because XY and z
Jennifer Rose Gens: Just want to be careful as to not
Jennifer Rose Gens: like.
Give too much of the end
Jennifer Rose Gens: worth missing where they might be at that. Make sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little, I mean I to me. So again you have to go with what feels right for you. There's so many different truths for each of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): To me it doesn't take away from where they are. It simply helps to normalize
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and take away the shame and do a little teaching
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for understanding the bigger context
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of where they are. But if that doesn't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ring true for you, Jen, then don't you know? Don't use it. It has to. It has to ring true for you.
Jennifer Rose Gens: It totally rings true, I guess, like. Here's another example. I've been told in the past by other coaches. It's like
Jennifer Rose Gens: for instance. It's like. It's not your fault, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you don't have boundaries, I mean, I wouldn't say it just like that. But see! But there's the difference. Oh, here's the difference. It's not your fault, because you don't have boundaries versus. It's not your fault, because the culture says this, that, and the other thing. Do you see the big difference, like the person bypassing 100, making assumptions, taking away agency
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of the things. The second one is putting things into a bigger perspective
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without blame.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does that help? Yeah.
Oh, totally. I think. I guess I'm just getting at this thing of like we know what they need, and I don't. I will just wanna be careful as to
Jennifer Rose Gens: not just saying we know what they need
Jennifer Rose Gens: absolutely, and you have to do it to your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): comfort level. For sure. II don't see it as a I know what you need, and I'm the, you know. I see it more as a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): universal truth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But yeah, but that has to feel right for you in your system, you know, there's no just only one right way.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah, speaking of not bypassing. Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, I think there's a greater conversation here. I'll just leave it at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Toleda.
Kellita Maloof: I almost put my hand down, but I have a feeling this will
Kellita Maloof: be good for this body and maybe other bodies just to put out. It's
Kellita Maloof: not even an asking for. Can you fix this? I just acknowledge that I
Kellita Maloof: I was I couldn't drop into.
Kellita Maloof: I don't know if I didn't step into tree enough, but I couldn't drop into like one voice.
Kellita Maloof: and I felt pulled between the poetry that was coming out yesterday, and then more of a you know, just
Kellita Maloof: language that comes from the interviews that I did that has longer, bulkier words, so I didn't
Kellita Maloof: yet find the place where
Kellita Maloof: they meet. And then I had 5 to 7 tabs open trying to find. So I'm I'm in. I'm in. I'm in an awkward spot, that's all. Well, I'm so glad you're sharing this cause. I wanna actually say 2 things about that. First of all, I wanna normalize it? I know you're not the only one, but number 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why is that wrong? I mean, if you go back and look at my sales pages. I alternate between the energetic, the more poetic, like universal, you know, archetypal voice. And then the boop. And then there's so so I actually think you're exactly. You're in a great place, right? And for anyone listening that that didn't happen for them, that that doesn't mean that you're not in a great place. But I it can look so many different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ways, and I think there is a value to like the more evocative, and then the more pinned down, and the more evocative, and then the more pinned down.
Kellita Maloof: Okay, so let it be different voices. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, why not? Why not?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Deva?
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Hi, I'm just really seeing how it would behoove me to create some different levels of training.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: recognizing. I'm kind of trying to put a lot into one. And there's different people who are brand new to like sound and frequency. And then.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: for my own just growing knowledge, being able to deepen into more advanced studies, bringing in sacred geometry and some of the practices that we've been learning in advanced steps. And II think I've had this question for you for a while about.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: You know we've I've learned so much
Deva Munay, Big Sur: in the trainings with you of how to like, make it my own and merge it into my material, and then also honor the format that you've taught us in
Deva Munay, Big Sur: of
Deva Munay, Big Sur: II think there's a lot of like overlap in places to bring in like of the fringe or fear process, or the will of self sabotage when we're looking at like dominant frequencies
Deva Munay, Big Sur: and things like that. But how to? II guess I'm just really aware of, like not wanting to plagiarize your material, and yet
Deva Munay, Big Sur: acknowledge
Deva Munay, Big Sur: how much I've learned from the training and how valuable it is, and where to kind of be able to insert these pieces?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it's such a good question. The the quick answer is, all the pieces are there for you to use with your clients and your groups to insert the the 2 things that I ask. And this is also in the contract is Number one just, you know, mentioned my name. Give me credit and number 2 that you don't use it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to train other transformational practitioners right? So you use it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to for the the techniques themselves, but not to train others in the techniques
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): themselves, to then be used for others. If that makes sense, that's all. But otherwise everything is for everybody's you like. I want you all to take everything you're learning and use it out in the world, you know all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So? Yes.
okay.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: awesome. Thank you. You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Would it be helpful if we did a little? Did a little case study? If somebody has their writing typed out. You can share your screen, and we can kind of all look at it together as a group. And I can make some suggestions, some copy suggestions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does anybody want to volunteer for that? Does anyone have it? You might not have been typing it out. You might have been writing it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but if you do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you're willing for us to all take a look, and you'll get some coaching.
I'd love to be able to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Gen. Great. Let me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): give you capability to share your screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, I mean, I don't have a ton here. But this is the start. Right?
So it starts right here.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Okay? And
Jennifer Rose Gens: you know, it's it's a rough draft. Y'all just like you all have. Okay? So look, can you go back to the ta.
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, yeah, right here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the I see. Okay, so let's all kind of read together. I'll tell you when to scroll.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, so let's we might not get through all of this. but you get to the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so you could, Jen, if you want to. So everybody sees she has these beautiful. It's so beautiful. I see you, dear one, you're a creative soul, meant for so much more than the Monday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You want to make a greater impact and create a life aligned with soulful purpose. Right? So let's just pause there. She is speaking to already, like the desires and the values of her ideal client. Right like they. They are seen here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but with all the career options to choose from.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): chained to obligations of time and financial resources, you don't want to make the wrong decision.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then from there you feel the weight of societal shoulds on your shoulders. So if you wanted to, Jen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before you go on to, you feel the weight of societal should's on your shoulders.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You could have a couple of very short
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like one-liners after you don't want to make the wrong decision. With examples of that. You don't wanna end up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the wrong career. You don't want to pick something that's actually not your passion. You don't, III don't. I'm just making it up. But like 3 or 4 4 very, you got the general there right. You don't want to make the wrong decision. Now, let's bring it to the practical. What are some examples
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of wrong
Jennifer Rose Gens: decisions?
Yeah, yeah.
Jennifer Rose Gens: okay.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Right. Now, you want me to say it. No, okay, I'm just giving this for you and for everybody to kind of see different types of tweaks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you do this in the next part. You say you feel the weight of societal should's on your shoulders, and then you do give specific. But you know, Jen, can you just keep the keep it like just for all of our purposes now, and maybe make notes on piece of paper. So. But you do this in the next one. Right you you go. And you mentioned all of the should to have it all figured out, to know what your next steps are, to know what career to choose. You feel like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you need to be all things to everyone. But in turn, you don't put yourself first.
Jennifer Rose Gens: oh, yeah, and then I started bullishing them
Jennifer Rose Gens: out, a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, let's see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): want to express and explore your creativity. But feel like, you have to prioritize tasks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yep, that's, a great bullet want to understand your unique gifts, but don't feel heard, seen, or appreciated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the deeper essence of who you are. Okay, let's let's phone in on this one. Little too fluffy. Exactly. So we in this space talk about feeling, seen, heard, and appreciated, and in some
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): outside also, it's okay. But some of it is lingo. That's not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not gonna really take hold of people. So for people who wanna understand their unique gifts, what is actually holding them back
Jennifer Rose Gens: from that. Such a good question. They are scared. They're not. They don't feel confident self doubt. Exactly. So that's exactly where you want to go here instead of the like more fluffier writing. You wanna understand your unique gifts, but you're so scared that you either don't have any, or that nobody will value those gifts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you see how that's like? Way more to the point and speaking directly to what the worry is.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, I'm looking at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time. So we'll we'll pause on this for now. But hopefully, this was helpful for everybody, just to kind of see, you know, some of the the amazing things that Jen is doing, and then also some of the tweaks
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can you unshare for now the screen? Yeah, you're welcome. Tell us in a sentence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you're one. Take away from that like, what's something that's coming together that you're taking away?
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah, just being careful of the fluff and being specific.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. Yeah. Great.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah. The truth is, II really know my ideal client very well. So just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): speak right to him. Yeah, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear from someone else. What's a takeaway that you're taking from Jen's writing and the conversation that we had from it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I promise we'll take a break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's something you took away from that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Cathy Norris: just speaking to the the actual, deep.
Cathy Norris: deeper fear or doubt.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, exactly, though. Go in in the plain language. Say what you know is in their head and heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. Yeah. And Ray.
Rai Jordan: it was a really good example of you know what they know versus what we know like, I really felt how she was coming from the place of you know them versus what she knows is a really good example that that's great. So that also might some of your fears. Jen, on the bypassing piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. it's exactly 2. We did it. hey?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's take until 3, and then we will come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remember, this is a practice. There's gonna be flow. There's gonna be stuck places.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You feel like you got a little stuck in the writing we just did. Don't just step out for the rest of the day. Come back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stick with it. Keep going. I'll be there to help them support you. And I'll hang around for a few minutes right now, if anybody needs anything. If not, I will see you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Monisha, wait, let me turn the recording off.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's loud.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're here, please put your camera on. So I know you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I feel like this is the point in the day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where we could use a little bit of movement, a little bit of energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): raising, and a little bit of a recalibration, and I'm wondering if somebody wants to volunteer to lead us through about 3 min of any kind of movement, or stretching, or any magical superpower that you have to kind of bring us all together, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be a little bit out of our seats. For a few minutes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had a feeling it was gonna be Khalida great.
Kellita Maloof: So take it away about 3 min. Take your beautiful 2 arms and reach them up to the heavens, and even let your fingers twinkle like stars, and each one of them reach
Kellita Maloof: deep breath in and
Kellita Maloof: out in your own time.
Kellita Maloof: and twinkle your fingers down.
Kellita Maloof: and as they get about shoulder length, let their twinkliness just
Kellita Maloof: shift as it is into your shoulders.
Kellita Maloof: and just let them lightly shimmy.
Kellita Maloof: and then we're gonna send the vibration down to our bottom on the count of 3. You're gonna send this gentle vibration from your shoulders down into your bottom.
Kellita Maloof: 1, 2 transfer it. Oh, yes, as ferocious as feels good. And if you want to stand and have this, you can have it a stronger degree. I'm just being lazy and sitting, but stand and have it, and oh, let your bottom just
Kellita Maloof: vibrate
Kellita Maloof: with all the knowing and all the joy and all of the change that's happening in your whole body right now.
Kellita Maloof: Oh.
Kellita Maloof: I'm actually gonna stand. I'm gonna keep doing the same thing with my bottom
Kellita Maloof: and go ahead and let it evolve into a full body, shake from seated or standing.
Kellita Maloof: and just shake, shake, shake!
Kellita Maloof: might be nice to shake, shake one part especially at a time, and now I'm just shaking my bottom.
Kellita Maloof: shaking out my limbs. But you know best. If you want to linger on one shake of one part, linger
Kellita Maloof: and let come to just a whole body. Bounce.
Kellita Maloof: And if you're willing, let your lips be parted, and if they're parted and you're bouncing, you will make sound.
Cathy Norris: Yes, of course. Thank you.
Kellita Maloof: yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you. That was, I think, exactly what many of us needed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I'd love to hear, what's moving through you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you learning? What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What questions do you have?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're gonna do some more writing in a little bit, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): want to hear more where you're at, what you're seeing, what's feeling important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): deba
Deva Munay, Big Sur: oops! Can you hear me? II think, just to deepen into the question I asked earlier about
Deva Munay, Big Sur: What I'm seeing is that it feels like I'm not alone in that. A lot of people have a lot of content in knowing where to deepen in rather than go wide with it.
in order to.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: you know, like having a course like how to break up the levels and the layers of like? Where is the beginning point of the hero's journey.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: and then where to go into more advanced practices with it.
and I think you've spoke on it a little bit about, you know, having
Deva Munay, Big Sur: different course links. But
Deva Munay, Big Sur: I'm just curious, even with what like Annelise was sharing when we went to lunch about how how to take when we have a lot of content, and we have a lot of layers.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: how to bridge the gap in that and have the vision, and then be able to work with people through a longer period of time.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: and continue to bring in new people at the same time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that making sense? It is. There's a lot in there. Is there a specifically with the marketing pieces of question on that. Are you asking more in terms of curriculum?
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Well, I think with the marketing, with just making it really course specific, I'm imagining
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. So it's not a just do this scenario right? It's not a it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): E. Every every journey is gonna have its own kind of length or every a for each one of you, your whole body of thought leadership. So I looked at Annaleise's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what she had over the break, and it turns out Annelise. I wrote this to like her tools, actually apply to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the 2 things that she was talking about the leadership piece and the balance piece. So sometimes it can come together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really beautifully like that. But sometimes it can't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so there's always choices.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. Sometimes we make a choice that we? You aren't going to have a much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): longer program, and it's going to cover
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all. You know, all the not all the things ever. But you know, I mean, like, the more other times, we're gonna make a choice that we're just gonna cover this part
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the journey. So a and then there are other kinds of choices, too, or I'll give sacred depths as an example. Sacred depths is both for new practitioners and for seasoned practitioners and every cycle I'm like. Should I keep it that way? Should I keep it that way? Should I keep? And you know I always still come back to? Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but that means that you know. If it was just free beginners it might just be the first half but because I'm including both, I'm taking a longer time in the foundations which ends up serving everybody, and then I'm also doing the mastery level in there. So I wish I could give
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do this, this, this and this or this is the rule. But I think it's more. You know, you wanna just have to approach it case by case
Deva Munay, Big Sur: scenario. So for the marketing specific, then is it
Deva Munay, Big Sur: better, do you think, to address it to the beginner like, if it is for people at different levels?
Deva Munay, Big Sur: coming in at the very beginning, or coming in at more of a mastery level. Would you address like whether you're just starting out, or whether you've had a, you know, a, a sound practice for many years.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: This course is relevant because A, B and C,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. So we looked at this before. But let's look at it briefly again, and then I'll also show you another example. Hold on a second. Let me just get this on my screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where to go. Oh, here with here. Okie Dokey. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, first to take a look at what we looked at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before, just real quick again. And you can go back to this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David, because I shared the link
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bonnet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna show you all another example also. But first to the one that we already looked at. So in life changing courses. I just I lay out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're seasoned, if you're new. right? So this is, if it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hitting more than one place of evolution. So that make sense. Deba.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: yeah, that's very helpful. Okay, great. So and then just for you and everyone, some of your courses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are not gonna be for everybody at every level.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this is my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for advanced depth. I don't have it like on a glossy website page. This is more of just like a letter, although it is graphic design. But for this one I'm really clear. This is for highly seasoned coaches and therapists who want to learn the next set of of tools
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And then when I activate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't activate a ton of gap in in this particular one. But when I activate Gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I say things like there are so many options available for new practitioners to hone their skills. But for those of us who are already masterful with significant experience. It can be challenging to find a training that can meet us where we are and take us to where we wanna go right. So now here I'm specifically speaking, to this one kind of person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me look for another
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): example on that. It's for you. If you know that your work is very good, right? It is already very good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But also you know that it's time for your clients to tackle deeper blocks. Be even more eager. Right? So here I'm speaking just to one person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So every course is, gonna be different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's not a right or wrong. But you know, once we're clear on on who it's for. Then we just speak to it in the marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that helpful?
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Yes, thank you. That really helps to
Deva Munay, Big Sur: just think about even the content creation, too, of not trying to pack too much into
Deva Munay, Big Sur: one course, but to start looking at like breaking out or, you know, looking at how to
Deva Munay, Big Sur: use the content in a more structured journey, so that
Deva Munay, Big Sur: people can
Deva Munay, Big Sur: that there's there. There's a rhythm to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, beautiful in in part one part, 2. Type of thing. Okay, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you're welcome. Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah. My question is kind of similar to what? David was speaking of, but I was realizing that, as I'm thinking of doing the longer arc that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): there are people that I know would come in reading the copy about the burned out leader and be like, Oh, no, I'm not there, and I don't really need that piece anymore. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I don't
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): wanna be with the most burned out from the 9 month journey I really would like to have. I love the space. It's what thrills me about. Membership is like having the idea of doing the arc and then having people in different spaces at different levels. So I guess I'm wondering.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): would it make sense to do a sort of sacred depth type lead in where there's a maybe there is a 3 month piece in that they can opt into the longer arc. But the 3 month is really laying the foundations and then
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): leading into the longer program. so that it is more. I know we're not supposed to be too inclusive, but I also I know there are people who would get so much out of this, but be at a different point in the journey.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So. but it's a little harder to say, like new and season practitioners in the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): sort of healing language of healing and nervous system.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So I think there's there's 2 pieces. To this. The first is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be precise in who you're calling in. So it is okay to speak about burnout
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the level of burnout that is appropriate for this program. And there's lots of different ways to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just one of many is you can have someone know. You know, this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and Xyz. But if you are feeling like you can't get out of bed if it is you know this, that and the other thing. This might not be the best container for you. You know, I really wanna serve your needs. And and this is what I know. Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's just one example of how, but it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): doesn't have to be in black and white terms like you can get very precise on on the scale. Or you know, this is this is the the spectrum, but like any more than that, no, and I would. Whether or not you do an intro, or 3 months, or whatever. II would recommend that you do that because you know that this is not for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the extremely burnt out like over the top, overwhelmed, who just aren't even going to be able to take in what you're doing right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that just might kind of solve that issue right there. To be more precise. I'm trying to figure out, Kelly, if you're going
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to this question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): out of fear of like, put it back to. But they're not going to sign up for the 9 months, or if it's if it is truly like, the full journey is not gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): B for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or just kind of easy to give a taste of the first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): park.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah, I feel like people need foundations to go to the deeper level. But sometimes it does require some, like the initial part is around the mindset piece, and then getting your body settled. Enough that you can actually do the listening. That's more powerful. But they have to get out of the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like stress and emergency cycle first, and I think part of there. I'm sure there's fear in here. But part of it is also just recognizing how many conversations that I've had with people in the past about enrolling in different programs and even having different levels of people. In my last longer group program and feeling the tension there like it wasn't a great fit. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so okay, so so first of all, again, back to being as precise as possible. And then I think Robin asked me this question on her Google, I can't remember who now about, you know, having different levels.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely, you can do that. I do this in sacred depth. So just for everybody again, sacred depths is 10 months.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The first 5 months are foundational transformational skills, like listening, questioning, creating awareness, visioning energetics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): strategizing. And then the second 5 months are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I call mastery skills befriend your fear techniques, rewiring negative thought pattern techniques, wheel of self sabotage being in the mystery, you know, etc. There's a lot in there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Almost everybody that purchases sacred deaths
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): purchases the full
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 10 months
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with just a handful who purchase foundation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is how you want it right? And most of the people that purchase foundations end up opting into the full anyway, once they get there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm saying this because if you have 2 levels, what you don't, if you really want most people in the big level. Right? So, okay, so how does that happen that most people just from the get go opt for the 10 months? It's because all of my marketing is geared towards the 10 months.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All of my marketing is geared towards the 10 months, but I just have the option for the first 5 months on the sales page. But everything, every email, everything that I write about in the you know, the full sales page is geared towards this is the end of the journey at the end of the 10 months, and most people really see that they and they want the end of the journey.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Is that helpful? Yeah, that's totally helpful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily's
Annelise Pesa: yeah. Still reflecting on.
Annelise Pesa: you know, like wondering whether the question more than what I want to put in my curriculum are.
Annelise Pesa: Yes, I've done program. I've done well being program for law firms. But they weren't public. They were specific, or
Annelise Pesa: that law firm.
Annelise Pesa: Why don't I just make my life easier and sort of like replicate that make a shorter program.
Annelise Pesa: And just, you know, test it. And I just put the part of self leadership which is self-awareness.
Annelise Pesa: you know your values and missions, and what is important to you, your desire time, management, communication, and assertiveness. And then so that self leadership part and then do
Annelise Pesa: later, like the the proper leadership which which involves.
Annelise Pesa: you know. Obviously, having done that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And at least I'm gonna I'm gonna pause you for a second. Can you hold that for when we go into writing? And then you and I can talk more about it? I meant for this part of the discussion to be focused on the marketing writing. And somehow I love talking curriculum. Obviously, feel like it's gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit, cause you're going some circles. I just want to give it what it deserves. But not right now, so wait till we go off to our writing, and then we can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any comment that wants to be made on marketing to the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything that you're seeing or just this marketing writing in general that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is coming together for you, or that you want to say or note
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin.
Robyn Vogel: I'll say something I did like earlier this year, is I? Oh, hold on! I'm really hot standing next to the fire.
Robyn Vogel: Was, I wrote like a framework, and I think you talked about it
Robyn Vogel: in different language, but I wrote out like the hero's journey, and all the things that like they thought at each stage
Robyn Vogel: it was like 4 or 5 stages of
Robyn Vogel: kind of growth and development, and I dug it up in my Google docs. And it was like, Oh, my God! It was so perfect because I just made a list
Robyn Vogel: of everything using that document of like what they were going to get out of the program, especially because for me. The program is like the signature, like the program, like
Robyn Vogel: encompassing everything. So I thought that was a really helpful like pre exercise. Because then I could just like, I just like copy and paste it like
Robyn Vogel: all the things that they
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could get could get. Yeah, could get. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And and that was all already there from the like. What are the phases?
Robyn Vogel: Right? Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Yeah. I wonder if my question is somewhat related to what was just mentioned. I'm a little concerned about this end of the journey
Cecilia Kremer: and set in, let's say, affirming things
Cecilia Kremer: like that are possible. But some, you know some of these things like relationships and communication. These are like lifetime
Cecilia Kremer: skills. They're not like, you're gonna get the 6 week journey and check it off your list, and you're gonna be a master in communication forever, and you're never gonna have any more conflicts. Yes, yes, so this is great. So this is segway into where we're gonna look next, which is activating the vision. So I'm gonna get there in a few moments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. So where we're going next is activating vision, which is the end of the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So this is where we speak about what is possible, what they really want for themselves, what is possible for them, and just like when we evoke the beginning of the journey at the end of the journey, we wanna be specific
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end of the journey. We wanna activate feeling emotion, not just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): situation. if you will.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the ethical piece at the beginning, when we activate the gap is not to put people into shame right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and make them feel terrible about themselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The ethical piece, when we activate the end of the journey is to not make marketing promises that we can't keep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not to set anyone up for failure, including ourselves, up for failure. Right? So. And we know too many people do like we've we've all seen the overblown marketing promises right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So there are a couple of things to keep in mind on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one. Think about when you speak about the vision using language like this is what is possible, not. This is what you're going to get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. This is what is possible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or once you XYZ,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, whatever they're doing in the program. This is what opens up for you next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So you there's lots of different ways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to language that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I would say. by and large, that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, because you're not saying this is absolutely unless you can guarantee it. In which say I guarantee right but here's what's possible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, if you want to go a step further, which I again I want to say, I don't think you have to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm not suggesting you do this unless it is important to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me show you an example of going a step further. Hopefully. I can find it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pretty quickly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, here we go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some of you came to this workshop. II led. Well, now we're doing it again in January, but I led it a few weeks ago it was on shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take a look at this session section.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): important. There are no such things as magic pills when it comes to coaching or supporting humans and transformation. The truth is that we are humans and therefore messy and complex.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What you'll be learning in the workshop is a powerful tool that will help you move forward in meaningful ways, but is always change as a process. The more you apply these tools consistently and do your inner works consistently, the more results you will see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So I'm just like straight. I'm spelling the whole thing out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here. II could even go further if I wanted to. This was a quick 37. Yeah, I didn't need to do any more than this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So I do sometimes on my sales pages. if not in such like big blaring whatever, but at least somewhere in in the copy. I do sometimes just just speak to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes I'll speak to it. Tomorrow we'll look at Q&A sections on sales pages. Sometimes I speak to it in the Q. And a. Like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): will. You know I get all of these results in 8 weeks, and then I speak to the process of change. And you know this, that, and the other thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Celia, does that answer your question?
Cecilia Kremer: It does. It's wonderful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. What do I want to show
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you all up? I want to show you some examples of activating vision. So hold on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's do that. My screen is so weird. Wait, I'm so sorry I am technically challenged.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, here we go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you all see that? So this is the life changing courses. sales? Page again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We just finished. This is what we looked at before. Break the whole gap. and then I kind of have a turning point here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you learn exactly how to create outstanding curriculum and lead your groups to profound transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're poised to change more lives. Blah blah! By the way, this you are poised is exactly to Celia's point as well. Right? I don't say when you do this, you are. You are going to change more lives and generate more referrals. Right? You are poised to. That is a truth that nobody can knock, and I will. I will stand by that proof over and over and over again. You are more poised when your curriculum and your groups are outstanding. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I have a turning point into the vision here. Right? This is what they want. They want to change more lives. They want to generate more referrals.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They want more, repeat business.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then I go a little bit deeper. Well, because it's me, and I have so many words. I go a lot deeper into it, right? So this could be enough. By the way, just this one section here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't do that much writing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on it, and then I've got my bullet points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this. This is even like some of these are going back into the gap a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In some ways. But this, this, this could be enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as it happens, because I like words. I go on to talk about glowing fans, and then lifech right can help you to not will help you to is definitely going to help you to, but can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then these are really all of the specific vision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I then go on even longer, which you just really don't have to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's look at an example of something a little shorter than this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is back to navigating client resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we go back so earlier today, you know, we had all of the the gap, and then I did some education on resistance, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not a lot of people know what resistance is, or they're not like really understanding it in the ways that I use it. So if you have something like that, that's really key. Right? Resistance is the name of the program. It's it's the promise of the program to learn how to navigate it. So that's why I'm going deeper into it, because it's not fully understood. So it's not that you have to define any and all of your terms on your sales page. But if it is like the core key piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that people need a little education on. you might do that. But then,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Again I go on for a long time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on, on the vision. But just to give you some examples like this, could just this whole section could just be the vision section, right? You want more engagement. You want more transformation. You want more impact. And I have little short paragraphs on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I have some bullet points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then I have a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But honestly, any, just any one of these sections.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): especially if you don't like writing a lot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just to give you one other example. Now, this is for a short
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 and a half, 3 h thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is the vision piece on this understanding and harness shadow allows you to do all these things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the whole vision. For this sales page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts, questions before we go into doing some writing on vision? What's clicking, coming together?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you learning about marketing so far today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): gypsy.
Dr. Josie: I have. I have a question. I
Dr. Josie: I think it was Ray who brought it up about like the flowy thing. And I got this really amazingly beautiful, loving, compassionate message like from my archetype. And then I went into the bullet points. But then I also have.
Dr. Josie: like my program's going to be based around traditional Chinese medicine's 5 elements. but I don't wanna make my marketing all about that. I wanted to make it about their connection to their animal and learning. But I feel like I have to describe that in some ways to be able to give
Dr. Josie: kind of an idea idea and a map of what they're going to be doing cause. Otherwise it it sounds like a ton of information that's gonna be super complicated and a lot of work and stuff. So I'm trying to figure out how much of that to work into like the marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So that will be more the next section, which is the bridge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I would.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you know, there's lots of different ways. You can do it. We can talk more when we get to the bridge, but one is, if you can combine each of the steps that relate to the pets.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to each of the elements. You can kind of put it together. That's right. And then, or another way is, you just keep the steps on the pets. But you have just a little graphic that speaks to the 5 elements in a very just, simple visual way.
Dr. Josie: Be good, too. Okay.
Dr. Josie: it gives me some ideas. Thank you.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was just thinking about how definitions are really important in curriculum and then watching in your copy of the marketing, and even just this last, I think, was the very last piece you showed about the shortened
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what you can walk away with with the shadow work. And you know, it's really in its essence defining what what it is. So it's like giving the definition in a kind of subtle way. And I was thinking, just for my own
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): copy around ideas that sometimes
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): don't speak to people because they're not in that world like speaking of embodied leadership, like what the heck does that mean? But then, to be able to say, this is what that can look like is really defining it for them. Exactly. Exactly so. There are moments, not every sales page. But you're exactly that, just like in our curriculum. Sometimes we have to define same with some things that aren't. So I'll just show you all one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): other piece on this. because I do this on the on the shadow thing. Because this is true. A lot of people in the transformational industry use this term shadow, but they don't really understand it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I give the simplest explanation possible here just enough for people to get that. What they're gonna get in this workshop is not like, oh, we're just talking about a fear here, which is basically how most
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people in the industry use it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. so let's try another experiment. Right? Is it all that it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the the assignment is going to be to evoke the vision.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In however way you want to do it. But to start and let's all start together. Let's come back to our bodies. Remember our energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and this time, as you open your heart to your prospect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your heart and in your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your prospect's potential.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the excitement of all that is possible for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If they receive the tools and the experience that you're offering. take a moment and really orient towards that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then bring your archetype in, if that's helpful, and ask it all to right through you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a note to, or some words to your prospect about what is possible for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is possible for them. And I'll give you 10 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and, Annelise, if you want to connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trying to think how we can do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me put us both into a breakout room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I can't figure out how to do that, Annelise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you have Whatsapp?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You wanna call me okay, I'll give you. I'll send you my number in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, we're at 10 min, I promise you're gonna have more time for writing. But let's first all come back together for a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna give kind of another prompt if it if it is helpful to continue just to think about as you continue with this writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is, do you want to add in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): why these results
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are possible for your ideal client?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so what I mean by that is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what qualities
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does your ideal client already have inside of themselves or resources outside of themselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that can help them achieve these results
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order for anyone to buy anything. There has to be a couple of things in the mix. This is what we're looking at over these days. But one of the things that needs to be in the mix for someone to put their money down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and their time down, and their energy down is for them to believe
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that the results are possible for them. Right? They recognize they need help, they need tools, all the things that your program will provide for them, but they need to feel that they can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, as you continue to evoke this vision.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is it that you know your ideal clients across the board have inside or outside of them that can give them more confidence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they can do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe consider adding a little bit of that in here as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll give you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 5 more minutes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to keep on going.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Joanna, my reception just came back on. Are we doing a writing exercise right now.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Oops. For some reason I can't hear you.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: We're continuing doing writing on the vision, and Jen put in the chat with the like. What I added to the prompt for the writing. Can you see that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna go for 5 more minutes if you want? If you haven't yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you want to add bullet points in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's another thing that you can start to do is to add some bullet points, and only if you feel like it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's come back together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How's it going?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What came through? What are you feeling excited about? What's connecting for you? Where do you have questions?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 10.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah. Thinking again about how specific to get.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And my niche is essentially purpose clarity through the lens of relationships. And so I'm feeling into what's possible for them.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And I started listing out things that were maybe less specific, such as says, what if you lived your life on your terms and your and you prioritized. And then I started bullet pointing your sacred self care, your creative outlets, and then
Jennifer Rose Gens: your creative outlets, then suddenly got their own bullet points.
Jennifer Rose Gens: because I work with creatives, and then it those bullet points became painting a masterpiece. creating an album, dancing with your inner wild woman, feeling the ceramic slay between your hands, launching the photography business becoming a wilderness guide.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And these are all results that I have supported my clients in. So it's like easy to be specific.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah, I guess to that point, you know, rather than saying your creative outlets like, would you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love it. You know I'd want to see eventually on the page, but that might just want its own section with bullet points as opposed to all of the other
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bullet points. Or it might just be that those are the only bullet points, and the rest is more sentences or short paragraphs. You know, just kind of depends on the rest of the things. But yeah, I love that. You're being specific. You're naming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, some of the the very specific possibilities. It's gonna make it more real
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for people. If you don't already have this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you've been writing about vision, I wanna invite you to include
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it's gonna feel like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when they're able to do this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): nice work.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are we?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are we all just getting to the end of a long day? It's so interesting, because the last time I let this retreat was in July, when the days were really really long and everybody was go like we wanted to go past 6. I know it's like holidays sickness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): getting to the shortest day of the year. So I'm gonna like modulate for where we are energetically. But I also want to make sure that you get as much as you can. You know front from this time, so if you have it in you to share. Ask questions, please do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kim.
Kim Davies: I found the visioning much more challenging than what we did previously, because I've never taught the course.
Kim Davies: So it's like, I'm trying to guess how they're gonna feel. And then
Kim Davies: the last part we did about the qualities resources. I just totally don't get that part.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Okay, so let's take it piece by piece. So sometimes, when it's the first time you've taught a course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit, you do have to guess into it. But that being said, I know that whatever you're teaching you have been through, at least for yourself, if not your clients, some version of that process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's always about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): putting yourself right in someone else's.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How did you feel when this happened for you? Or how would you feel if this were to happen for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so is that helpful on that account?
Kim Davies: Yeah. And that's that's what I tried to do. Yeah tune into my life and my experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. And then for the second question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that was like an optional. It it could hit or it could not. But it might
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be worthwhile over the next day or week
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just ask yourself what are some of the strengths that all of my ideal clients have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like? What are some of the shared strengths.
Kim Davies: So can you give me an example of
Kim Davies: just something that a statement you would use that comes from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): resource? Well, I'll ask you first, and then give you an example. So when you think about your ideal client, what is something incredible about them? That is a resource that they're either using or that is under utilized for them.
Kim Davies: That they're self aware and really aware of what other people need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how will that help them achieve their goals.
Kim Davies: That this class will give an opportunity to turn that onto themselves and access what they need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, so it that could sound something like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The good news is that you already have so much of what you need. But you're just not fully utilizing it yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, for example, I know that you are so self aware. That's what already allows you to. XY, and Z.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Imagine being able to use your self awareness for yourself in order to ABC,
Kim Davies: okay.
Kim Davies: that's really helpful. And that's amazing how that just flows off your tongue.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. You're welcome involved.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah, I so I think for me. And it's kinda like I didn't wanna ask a question, because I'm like.
Inbal Sansani: kind of judging or blaming myself that
Inbal Sansani: like I'm just. I'm writing more. I'm writing more generally.
Inbal Sansani: Because, like, I have this idea for a course around boundaries. But it's it's much more about kind of like broader leadership.
Inbal Sansani: So I definitely could have been more and it's
Inbal Sansani: I'm not. I'm
Inbal Sansani: like, I can see why, like the need for kind of like, what's what's the container. But I'm also appreciating
Inbal Sansani: yeah, just like the space and what's and what's coming through.
Inbal Sansani: I'm you know, in some ways it's bringing up more questions.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes that can happen right? It's a it's a process. That's that's why I said at the beginning, it's some people are gonna be able to literally take beginning and end of heroes journey, and mostly have it there for others of us. It's it's gonna be a little bit more of a process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But even though it's broad, I think it's probably also specific involved. You know, we can take a look together. At some point if you want. But I I'm really intrigued
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by this idea of boundaries and leadership. And I think that that is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): very specific in some ways.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah.
Inbal Sansani: yeah. Well started as boundaries. And then it was more about like, kind of like.
Inbal Sansani: yeah, being like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a good leader. Obviously, that's not the word. I would. I thought you meant that. Then you were applying it specifically to leadership.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah.
Inbal Sansani: so, but yeah, just it feels like creative and just happy to have the the space
Inbal Sansani: and definitely.
Inbal Sansani: yeah, I got caught also, like confused. Where? Him just asked. So that's helpful.
Inbal Sansani: Cause it was really like what came up for me. It's like, you know, you're open. You're like, you're smart. You're curious, you are willing, you know, to try to do things differently.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. And you know, just to even make it more specific for your leaders to use what you just said. It's like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're in in your work. With others. You're able to turn on a dime. Do something differently, be willing to experiment. Try it out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but somehow, with yourself it feels like you just need to keep on doing the same things over and over again. Imagine if you could take this superpower of making quick decisions and taking swift action when it comes to your own boundaries and well being.
Inbal Sansani: yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you. Yeah. Good, Robin.
Robyn Vogel: I think I'm just asking the same question over and over again, because. I mean, that was just asked. I guess
one of the things I put in.
Robyn Vogel: which is so. Maybe the flip side is like
Robyn Vogel: because something about like they've spent a lot of time and a lot of, you know, energy on programs that didn't like get to the full to the depth of this program.
Robyn Vogel: And those programs are good. But my personal experience is that they don't get to like more complete or full healing.
Robyn Vogel: And so, like we were talking about earlier, I put that in. But my point is that
Robyn Vogel: that doesn't identify their super powers, but it like identified that they've done a lot of work already. And
Robyn Vogel: and then this is different. But I guess I don't really get how to put in like.
Robyn Vogel: What what I put in was just a little paragraph like that. They're courageous, and they're willing to move forward in their lives. And they.
Robyn Vogel: you know, know, the importance of
Robyn Vogel: personal growth. But it doesn't feel like it's so fleshed out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so should I just do like blanks with what you just said like? Imagine if if it rests so first of all, only if it resonates right, II was throwing that in as like a a little kind of bonus. So if it, if it resonates, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): play with it. Part of it is about helping people feel seen and heard, so we don't only want to see them and hear them in their pain, but we want to see them and hear them in all of their power as well. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it doesn't have to be a paragraph. It might be just in different things that you write where you slip in. I know that you are courageous, right? So, for example, for me, in a lot of my marketing, I write about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my people being really ethical, that is, a value of theirs and a superpower of theirs, and they feel really seen in it. I write about how you're already a person of depth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's why you want to go deeper with clients, and you have that capacity. It's a it's like they're they're feeling very seen in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): their power in that plus. It reminds them that. Yeah, I can do that
Robyn Vogel: right. People probably as well right? Like, if they resonate with those words, then they okay, alright. Well, it helps to say.
Robyn Vogel: to weave it through. That's helpful.
Robyn Vogel: Okay, thank you.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I was wondering if you could speak to
Jennifer Rose Gens: in terms of the feeling
Jennifer Rose Gens: at the end about using, like positive versus negative language, such as
Jennifer Rose Gens: like, stop spinning and overwhelm versus
Jennifer Rose Gens: that the
Jennifer Rose Gens: it's feeling calm and balanced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So more in the gap, the starts more in the vision.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Cool.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? I'd love to hear where you're at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how it's going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Also back to what I was saying before. Let me, you know it's easier in the room for me in real life to tell where people are at. I have a feeling that between yesterday and today and the short days and everything we're kind of at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We might be at our limit for today. But I'd love to hear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from all of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We could do more, or we are exactly where we need to be. Also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Paul is at her limit. I know, Anika said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly's feeling frustrated Kelly. If you want to hang if we yeah, it looks like people are full. Okay? So this is what I think we should do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we've done
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a lot over the last 2 days like a lot a lot. I really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): been pushing you all a little bit, hopefully, lovingly. But I have been pushing you all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My sense is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you've reached your I'm not going to teach anything more today. If you've reached your limit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is a good moment for self-care, for letting things settle, you know, and coming back tomorrow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have questions, want support, want me to take a look at anything. I'm gonna make myself available for that for anyone that wants. You know what? We'll keep on going. So you're not gonna miss a single thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you go, and everything will be on the recording, anyway. But I'm not gonna teach anything new. I'm not gonna give any new assignments and just gonna do some coaching and consulting for people. That wanna stay on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that feel for everybody dead?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, and then tomorrow. So don't leave yet and give me just a few minutes. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tomorrow we're gonna keep on going. We may not like do a lot of writing tomorrow, but I'll at least take us through the rest of the sections for you to kind of understand the fullness of the sales page. We might do a little bit of writing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we'll do some other things as well that II think, will be helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if you're gonna leave before you leave, hang with me and us for 5 min. I'd like for everybody to take a moment and write down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is one big Aha! Or take away, or exciting thing that you're taking away from our time together today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay, Jen, yes. you're not putting it on hold anymore
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Josie. How to speak more specifically to where your prospects are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Robin. You're finding words to put down, which is surprising, cause you hadn't yet written anything beforehand. Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Robin Vogel, so helpful to remember that people require hearing. Why, things are important. Yeah, it's like, we always want to connect the dots. We know why it's important. And so we assume that our readers know why it's important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but we always have to connect the dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Paula. You're on track, and it's coming easily. Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Kathy. You're getting the specifics
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the gap and the resources part is great. Good yeah. And resources is such a great language for your Hr people. Obviously
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): dawn is tying the gap in vision together. More good. good. And the writing is coming more easily. Good. Good. Good. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if it's right for you to go. I am sending all of my love, and just lots of good energy and juju rest. Take good care of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and thank you for showing up and doing the work and working so hard. And we're gonna we're continue with it tomorrow, and I can't wait, and if you wanna hang will hang. I'll answer a couple of questions right now and then we'll see where we're at, and if there's more we'll take a little break and then come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right, Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: I want to be aware, I think, like you wanted to work with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with Kelly. So I'm just kind of getting in line for after that, yes, actually, thank you. And actually, what is making me realizes Raquel and and Paula haven't really yet spoken today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Raffle.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hope you're on mute, though
Rochel Keller: going through all this, I am so overwhelmed that I have to keep on rewriting it and rewriting it. But one of the basic questions is that? Where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it? In the member center of the outline of what goes, what the sales page, the definition, the gap, the whole thing is that in the sales, and the my team had told me. It's in the member center check when we hop off, but it should be under the bonus. This is a bonus retreat, cause it's like out, you know. It's like marketing, which is an exactly part of the so so it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it should be under the bonus materials, one of the resource sheets. Okay, so this is a great opportunity for me to do everything and then hopefully get ready. Well, and actually, you know what I'm saying all this, but I can give you the link.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What? Just forgot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hold on a second. Oh, this is from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no, but I have the link from the wrong program, reminding me.
Rochel Keller: Thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paula.
Paula Ackermann (she/her): So this is kind of a more nuts and bolts. Marketing question, because I haven't done some of this stuff before. Is there any resources that you provide, or that you would recommend? I look for in terms of like landing pages and kind of the more nuts and bolts part of putting this out in the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you say nuts and bolts, just tell me what you mean. So
Paula Ackermann (she/her): like landing pages. are they like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a single website page? Or they part of your website, you're a little bit asking the wrong person. So but let me see what I can tell you, and then let me think or see if I can get some resources. So my! My.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of my sales pages are just landing pages. They're not directly linked to like they're back linked to my website. But you can't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and I think you can choose to do it either way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The big difference on whether it's on your website versus landing page is for a tech dummy like me on a landing page. Sorry I let me just open a light there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's the software is a little bit different. So I can go in and make changes versus anything like on my big main website.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know how to make those. And I don't have a website yet. So I'm just trying to decide, do I need a website first, or do I just go? Necessarily, you really don't. Necessarily. If you don't have a website.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there are a couple of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things I would suggest
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): putting on the sales page that are really no different than what we've been
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): looking at. But I would maybe make your bio a little bit longer than
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's not attached to a website.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's really it actually
Paula Ackermann (she/her): cool. So I can do this very simply because also not a tech person. Here we use click funnels, which even for me, is someone who knows nothing. I can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): mostly you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but if you have more techy questions on that, I can pass it on to my operations team, and see if we can get it answered.
Paula Ackermann (she/her): Thank you. Appreciate you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathleen.
Kathleen Paul: I don't know if this is too broad a question. Still.
Kathleen Paul: So first of all, I just want to share that my
Kathleen Paul: had been struggling with this core with this small course. It feeling like I needed to keep it focused in a pretty. I'll say generic way
Kathleen Paul: and realize today, after some.
Kathleen Paul: you know, internal back and forth between my currently warring archetypes. I
Kathleen Paul: that I really needed to just relax about it and let
Kathleen Paul: the archetypal piece come forward, which is really part of what my the books on storytelling is about.
Kathleen Paul: and also
Kathleen Paul: focus on this. So this is the question is, then, is that really I wanna talk about I wanna
Kathleen Paul: the what I have to bring forward to people, I think, is this
Kathleen Paul: synergy between being able to hold onto your own story in your own voice, in the midst of the grey zone that is in the midst of the transitional period. Or
Kathleen Paul: and the phrase I use is, you know, at the stories edge where you can. You know where you don't really see the way forward. Any really can't even make sense of where you came from. But those there are wayfaring way, finding markers that you can hold on to and use
Kathleen Paul: to move forward. It's all but it's all about what people already have. Right. It's all about what
Kathleen Paul: what people are already bringing. They just haven't recognized them.
Kathleen Paul: So part of the pitch is for me has always been. Oh, we we're just having a quiet space here. We're having a quiet time and a quiet space for just you
Kathleen Paul: to be able to move forward, and we'll talk about these 3 things and etc. Is this making sense, or is it?
Kathleen Paul: Or is this focus on this transitional
Kathleen Paul: gray zone area too oblique? That's really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): partly what I'm getting, too. I think it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no depending on the words
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're using, and I'm more than happy if you want to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the Google. But no, it's making sense to me. And I think it is potentially
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): depending on how you the words you use, the the way that you message it potentially, really exciting. Because that that gray area is where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): change can happen. And maybe that's something you wanna write in there, too. It's like, actually, the the moment you've stepped into the mystery on your story is the moment that it has the potential to change.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so yeah, I think that I think there can be a lot there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I think potentially could be a little too general or oblique is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just talking about your story without giving specific examples. Story is holding you back or moving you forward. So you you do want to give specifics.
Kathleen Paul: Yep.
Kathleen Paul: okay, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. I'm excited to see your writing.
Kathleen Paul: Hmm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, are you ready? Or do you need? Another couple moments.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah, I'm good. I think.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I I don't know what's going on. I am so frustrated right now, and I'm just feeling so super stuck.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this sometimes happens often happens with marketing stuff, but it's like this. Archetype is nowhere to be found. She's like out for the day.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I think part of it. Sorry. thought I, like pulled it together enough.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think part of it is feeling still not convinced about the program. And just this feeling of Oh, dear! Am I going to go? Put a whole lot of time into figuring this out, and no one's going to show up. And I've got this great thing that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I feel excited about. But if they don't come it doesn't matter.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I just feel like as I'm writing my writing these enormous generalities like it doesn't feel it doesn't feel like I'm accessing the place in her that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It's going to be the place where she decides to make the change.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And and I think the idea of going longer is
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It just feels like such an obstacle, because it's already so hard for this archetype like my my ideal client archetype to step in and do this for herself. So I'm like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): who is going to come in for a 6 for a 6 months group programme, when like, it's hard for her to do anything. is that I'm like, Am I just working with the wrong people?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I'm just feeling super stuck. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I took a nap during break just to see if I could chill out. But it's been growing and growing through the day.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And II think I came in
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): hoping that I was gonna walk out with. You know this ready to go because I've got
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): essentially a preview event in a few weeks, and I'm clearly not going to have something ready at that time.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I think it's just feeling like, oh, dear, we're backing this up again.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah. all the things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so sorry that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is all coming up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and my hope is that we can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): use it for some change
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is not fair for me to like. Chuckle, as I say that I know, because it's so uncomfortable for you right now, but but my hope is that that the tension can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can do something with it before we go there, though. because pressure always adds to anxiety and frustration.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want to say this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm not just saying it. I really believe it, even if it's not fully complete.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even if you're gonna change it afterwards, you will have something for your preview. Call
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that you can use the preview, call, invite people in and give it to them. I am
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): very often changing sales, pages, and letters after I've put it out to the world and made
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my first and second invitations.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): N.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so, if it's something abbreviated or not, all the things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you'll have, something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that feel true to you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean, it has to be, because I already said, that's what I'm doing. Right? So it just has to be okay, like, so take. So take the like. Some. I don't know pressures the right word. But whatever is like, oh, my God, am I gonna have something or not? You are cause you have to right, just like I have to pick the kids up at school at the end of every day, even though I'm gonna get to the end of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So we want to just move forward from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from that knowing. And also, Kelly, tell me if this feels true.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because if it doesn't. it's okay, too. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): think it's true, and you can agree on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna move forward and look at this from the understanding that you are going to be okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no matter. What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is there a part of you that believes that?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can you just connect into that part of you that knows that you are okay? Your kiddo is okay. Your work is alive in the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no matter what.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Where do you feel? Even if it's just like this little itty bit? Where do you feel that, knowing that it's okay?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): My heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does that feel like in your heart?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I mean, it feels a little tired to be honest, it just feels like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's a little tight, but it just knows like it's what we do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it okay for it to be a little tired while also letting you know that you're okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can we keep on going?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm hearing that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): while your heart wants to do the longer program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which could be very founded. I don't like we don't know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this fear of. But what if people don't sign up for a longer program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of keeps on coming to like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not just to day. But I think over the last weeks to kind of pull you back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Am I getting that right?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah. And and I think to be honest like, it's not so much that my heart wants to do the longer program as in my heart really wants to guide people through
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): a journey that takes them to another place. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it the longer program feels like the place they need to go to to get there. But it's not that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I want that. I mean in some ways I don't want that. So is it true that they need the longer journey to get to that place that you're wanting them to get. I don't know, only you know
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I mean
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it for them to get to like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the big, you know fireworks place? Yeah. I mean, they can. They can get to gentler, nicer places
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): than where they're at right now. In a shorter time. I've guided people through that. It just doesn't, doesn't feel as deep as I'd like to go, and then they often
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): don't continue on
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So it's not like lasting transformation. You know, I still get letters from people that say I was at, or a trade, or I did your 8 week programme, and I'm still using the tools. And it's years later. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, that's something.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's huge.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): they're also not necessarily. You know, the ideal client. II think I just have so much chatter in my mind of all these conversations I've had over the years of what
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): people want and are willing to do. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I'm I'm
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): just wondering if you know I'm creating this beautiful thing that I'm in love with. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's like, if if the world doesn't get it. It doesn't matter.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Think that's
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So my heart would just love to really support change making
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): from the place so like regulated and body leadership that's healed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it I don't really care about the container. I mean, I totally care about the container. Yeah, II hear what you're saying. I mean to a somewhat of a degree it reminds me of. I want secrets to be 3 years long. I'm not gonna make it 3 years long, because I know that most people aren't going to right. So I get that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so long as like, so long as you're clear in the choice that you're making, and then empowered in that choice right? And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one choice isn't better than the other. It's just like what? What is the empowered right? What is the empowered choice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So one choice. Sorry. For some reason. My email. Okay, let me close it. Okay. So it doesn't ding. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one choice is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people aren't willing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to do or may not be willing to do the longer program. Well, then, I'm gonna start with the other choice. First. Sorry. One choice is longer program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is the program that it takes to create
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the shifts that I want to create, that I want for these people to have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm willing to take the risk, not knowing what's going to happen and put it out there. and either people will come.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if they don't. then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might I will be bruised, and there may be a money piece that I have to work around for myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I know that I will keep on going and figure out a different way, because this is my work. That's option. One very good option. Here's option 2, which is also a very good option.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am not willing to take that risk, because it is not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the right time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for me to take that risk.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It does not feel right for me or my kiddo. or my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like energy about my business to take that risk right now. And so, because of that, I am making the decision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to offer a shorter program that may not be able to have that depth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that is okay. because I am choosing the safety which is the top priority for me right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just as good as an option as the first one, Kelly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Just as good of an option.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know neither option is perfect, and it's like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but that I think that's the choice, cause it the blocks in the writing, and I want to see the writing. I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also have a feeling we can kind of get to some flow with some suggestions. I think the blocks in the writing are because of this right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what are you hearing that is important to you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as I'm kind of laying all this out, or is there a third option that I haven't? Scene that you're starting to see?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I really appreciate you breaking it down into the 2 options. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, option, one found sounds exciting and interesting. And yeah, it would be. I've just played with the bruising in my mind many times and in part because it feels like a little bit of a bruising bill last small enrollment.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And not even because, like Nope. like it wasn't a juicy thing, just you know. I think
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I still have ways to grow in terms of my marketing and bringing people in and expanding my audience. but I think with the first option, it feels a little bit like if I do that I've put in all this effort, and then I have to re up and put in all this effort for another thing, to figure it out, to do it differently, and that to me just sounds
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): really exhausting. and the second option.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like feels better, not great. But I think better than that, just because it also gives away
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like. It may be a way to grow into the next thing, and maybe it's not doing the 4 times around the wheel in a year, but
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): maybe it's this, and then I launch it again, and then and then I'm ready for the 6 month option, because I have people who are ready to step into it. Lots of maybe.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I think the third option that I just keep thinking about is. what if I just have like?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And you've said no, on this. I'm curious about that. But just this idea of like having a place people come into that is lighter touch and more tools, and not as intensive and not as deep.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But it's a. It is a paid thing, in a way, for people to grow, trust in myself and the work, and
and then I give them an invitation into something bigger and deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just to be clear. It's not I. When I said, No, it's not like Nope.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely the I just wanna say the reasoning again, it's a choice something really, really low cost.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You think, okay? So it's like we go for an option like that. We think it's not gonna take a lot of our time and energy, but it does end up taking a lot of our time and energy, and it's low cost. And people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when the container is that loose they can drop off at any moment, even if they've made
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a commitment. I'm seeing that now with embody, too, because the price is so low.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for programs like that, they thrive on numbers like they thrive, need a lot of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people in, or else you are putting all of this energy out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for very little money.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that I didn't mean like, no, like you. Obviously, you know what's best for you, and that could be the best option. I just want you to have the like, the full information
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): on a program. I mean. It's why I ended up launching the deeper container like a year and a half ago. It's because I knew that I was gonna burn out doing that. And so I keep coming back to
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and that is the part like where my heart says, yes, I wanna do the longer thing, because
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): that's where I'm really good, and we're
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, we can go deeper and and it gives people more of the experience. And I'm not marketing every every 2 months.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So well, let me say what I'm hearing it. It sounds like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at least in this moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's more important to you is to not take that bigger risk.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Am I getting that right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, by the way, no shame at all in that there are moments for that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): crazy.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I totally agree with you that this is like an opportunity for a big break out breakthrough breakout I have. We don't want to have a breakout
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's like my body so quiet. I'm like, this is what I teach. Could you talk to me, please? yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, I just. I don't exactly know what option 2 looks like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I'm I mean, I walk, taking risks like I'm willing to take a risk. It's just, I think I think the tired heart part is just the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): part that's like, Oh, are we going to do this again and then have to like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's just she's tired.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So here is a hybrid.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Go with the shorter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe make it a little longer, like, instead of 9 or 10 weeks, 12 or 13,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not very
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like a very loose
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): opportunity as you talk. so it's you're gonna be promoting that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): However many weeks it ends up being like. That's what you're promoting. However, as you have conversations with people. it's only gonna be few and far between
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when the right person shows up for the longer journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have something in mind that's maybe can just accommodate. Maybe it's a one on one, or just can accommodate 3 or 4
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 5 people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at a much higher rate where they start the 3 months, and then they keep on going. and then, if you get enough people in it like you do it, and then also at the end of the 3 months you upsell and see if there's more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but don't like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have a whole big lots of marketing material for the bigger thing just yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can kind of just speak people through it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The people that are appropriate.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, that that feels really good. And it kind of feels like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the idea I was getting while I was writing, which was the to have like the foundation's piece, and then expand into something bigger.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): which I mean, which is my whole vision for doing the initial incoming
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): work anyway, and to guide to something deep deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you can pull out the first, however, many weeks. If it's gonna be 12 or whatever it is. you already have all of that, and you know all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then all the work that you've done before. Like on the bigger you can shape that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this launch you can start to talk about it here and there with people. Now, if it's the right person, one on one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what i'd say, is along with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): set the intention that those 12 weeks. I'm gonna go really deep.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Hello.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it feels better. And then just trim back on the promise. Basically.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like, it's not all 9 steps.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): thank you. I'm sorry for taking so much time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All good. It all happens exactly as it needs to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Everybody that's here, I can see, is listening intently, and they're either getting something from themselves. from the coaching, or they're learning something about coaching. So it's all good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How are you feeling about moving forward now? Back into not today, but back into the right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): picture.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Hum
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): feels better. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what else? I feel like, there's another piece there.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah, I'm just
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I've had. I've had this vision of like, let's boundary this time, and then have next week off. This seems very silly, but I was like I need to take. I need to walk my talk and take time off.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I've just been trying to do that and feeling like I'm not feeling very much an integrity. because everything's feeling like so much work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so when is the time off supposed to start
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Sunday?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My invitation to you is to take the time off.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When is the call?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): January seventh?
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so shoot me what you have so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to make some suggestions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You've got a few days until Sunday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How would it feel to then. hopefully, you can take the whole peek. But even if it's 5 days, if that helps, you feel better. take those days
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then kind of how we started off this little conversation. You're gonna have what you're gonna have on the seventh right? Go back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): change what needs to be changed. When I come back from vacation I can take another look.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you. You're good to go, and the preview call is not the only point of marketing and entry way in, and you can change it. And you can let people know that already have it, that you have an updated one, too, afterwards.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you. And I'm also just hearing, like you have to soothe your perfectionist, and like she's got to take a rest like, let it go, Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Years.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm glad you're hearing that that feels coming straight from your inner wisdom. Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): thank you so much, Joanna. And everybody for all.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Felita.
Kellita Maloof: I'm also. Okay. Jen, can she can go
first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know what I actually need to go to the bathroom. Keep on hanging out. I love this. Let's take 5 min, and then we'll come back. My my queue kind of does roll with Kelly a little bit. II will mention that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, alright. So let's pee. Let's come back. It's just right after 5, and we'll keep on going.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Okay, sweet. Also the Chinese New Year and Lunar New Year apparently, is on February tenth, and it's like giving me a little bit of reprieve like, Oh, there's another New Year that I can, you know, always start again. Launch on the Lunar New Year. Alright, I'll see you.