Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hello, everybody!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not quite allow. Oh, 11 Eastern. Look at everyone just a little bit. Come in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're gonna be a small group today. I know we're getting closer and closer to vacation time for for myself included. I'm leaving tomorrow morning. Good morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's get started.
So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit of an auspicious day today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is the shortest day of the year
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the longest night of the year. Yeah, winter solstice for those of us that live in this part of the world. Suzanne. Let me know she might come in late. She's on the other part of the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it's not a coincidence that so many cultures and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): religions celebrate the light at this time of year. Right? We come to the longest.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): darkest night, to the depth of the mystery to to the depths of the the womb, if you will.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And just when we think Oh, my gosh! I can't take it anymore.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's a spark there is we? We start to sense that. There is a light
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end of the tunnel.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after this time of solstice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the light does begin to return.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the days start to get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): short, longer and longer, the nights shorter and shorter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we're still in dream time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Creation happens in the dark first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but we're starting to get more clarity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The fire is coming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so in honor of that, I'm gonna start us off today with a short song that was written by one of my teachers, Alisa Starkweather.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll just go. We don't have. I won't teach it today, but I'll I'll at least sing it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fire! Transform me, bring me to my passion, fire! Transform me, bring me to my passion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I choose life, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I choose courage, I choose life. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I choose coverage to dance among the flames.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to dance among the flames.
Umhm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have a shorter day today. We're here until 3, or really a shorter day, just in the grand scheme of things. But in the scheme of our retreat. We are gonna be here until 3 Eastern, which means that our break schedule is gonna be a little bit different. I'm gonna try to have us mostly here will take 2 10 min breaks over the 4 h.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As opposed to a longer break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as we go in, you know, we're we're focusing on marketing over these 3 days, but we're also in a course about facilitation. And I wanna talk a little bit for just for a minute or 2 about us ending early yesterday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Because as practitioners. we have to make decisions. Yeah, we have our curriculum. We have what we thought just like in life. Right? We have what we thought was gonna happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we try to stick to it as much as we can. But as we do that we also have to meet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the room where the room is right. We have to meet our participants where they are, we and sometimes we have to shift gears.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I learned something yesterday. I've led this retreat before, but never in the darkest of the dark of the year, and I think in the darkest of the dark of the year, especially when there's also vacation for people about to happen, and sickness and all the things. It's too much, you know, the long like what we're doing here as opposed to doing it another time of year, so I might.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Moving forward. I might switch up the format of this to shorter days if I do it this time of year. Something like that split it up somehow, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): regardless. I had to make a decision yesterday, right? And the reason why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it was
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not hard for me to make the decision, you know, feeling just where we were at energetically is for a couple of reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): back to energetics. I don't just teach this. I really really believe this. Every circle is perfect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I believe it to my core, and if I am believing that every circle is perfect to my core.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then it's okay. If I go off script or I don't get to what I thought we were going to get to that day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc. Etc. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Because I know that so long as I'm with the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's it's exactly as it needs to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number 2,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): contingency time and curriculum which I've mentioned already. A bunch right? So especially with retreats, less so in a 90 min class.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but especially with retreats.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The curriculum isn't packed. It is padded with a lot of space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for processing. If things come up, if we need to divert attention in another way, and apparently also, if we need to end early. Right? So we may not get by the time we're done today to all the pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I know that we're gonna come to a place of completion where everybody will have gotten what they need, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every circle is perfect, and because I padded the curriculum with time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anybody like, I just, I want to open up for comments or questions, facilitation, wise anything else that wants to be said. Cause this is an important piece, whether it's ending early, or having to divert attention to, you know, because the room is needing something else, or you know, whatever it is, this is going to come up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you facilitate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what wants to be shared? What other insights any questions on this?
And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, Kelly, go ahead.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I feel like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like I have a responsibility to share. When you did that yesterday it was.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and then, when I had what I feel like was a total meltdown afterwards.
Which you masterfully handled.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I I'm realizing as you're speaking right now, that the fact that I really wanted to run away because what was happening is not something I'm used to happening for me in spaces like this, and I'm used to being the one holding the space. But I have so much trust in you, and I have
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): one, because you're an awesome human, but also the way that you hold space in the way that you've structured it. And I think the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): fact that you say I trust it exactly as it's
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): as it needs to be, was part of my trust in you, that that's the case, and my not running away and just hanging up and having I'm all done on my own
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and so
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, so I just, I'm just like reflecting this back and doing the mirroring myself of how important it is to be holding that structure.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and to be really trusting in that, and how much the energy follows energy because it it allowed me to like, feel into when I'm holding space. How important
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): that is, and what I can offer to others, and just being on the receiving end of that which I'm really grateful for. It's it's also just teaching me a great deal. II don't even know if I'm making sense. But it's some something in me really clicked when you said that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're making so much sense. Yes, the energy and the container right, all of it. And that reminds me just to point out I didn't just like end and get off the phone. I said, for anyone that is done for the day that's saturated. We're not. You're not gonna miss anything. If you hop off, we're officially done. But if anybody needs anything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here, right? We, you know. And that was also very purposeful. To make to make sure that whatever needed completion for the day was gonna be complete, right? And just for people that weren't yet saturated if they're like, no, I need a little, you know. I want to keep on going. I paid for this right, but that II was there as well. So that's one piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I knew Kelly were one of the people that I was like, I'm not just hopping off the phone right now, and not. And it turned out so perfectly right, cause if we would have kept on going. It wouldn't have given that space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing I want to point out for everybody from Kelly's share. And from yesterday is it's okay. If people go into resistance or have meltdowns or want to run from the room, I cannot promise you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with everything that we're learning, I cannot promise you that that's not gonna happen. In fact, if you're doing everything right that will happen here and there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if you hold a tight container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's space right whether it's at an actual like, get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coach, the person will share, or they'll work it out on their own right. But if you speak to resistance. You normalize resistance. You hold a tight space with vulnerability and trust.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're much more likely to support everybody, or at least most people. Some people are just going to have to leave. That is what's gonna be right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for them, right? We can't like cling and hold on so tightly, either. We're not magicians. We're just mere humans, and different things are right for different people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Sharon.
Sharon Epstein: The the small point I wanted to share is just something I've learned from facilitation, which is that the better?
Sharon Epstein: I know my material, and the longer I've done something.
Sharon Epstein: It almost it. It feels like a good thing
Sharon Epstein: to read the room.
Sharon Epstein: and to be able to make the kind of decision that you made yesterday. I haven't made that exact one, but I know that in times when I really feel like I'm tuned in to the people in my class.
Sharon Epstein: And I'm you know, getting whatever reading I'm getting, and I'm checking it that it doesn't have to feel bad.
Sharon Epstein: not at all. So I can actually feel good like, Wow, I'm doing a great job because I'm really tuning into my group, and I'm helping them and giving them what they need in this moment. And so I just I guess I wanted to say that explicitly, because, especially in the beginning. It can feel wrong or bad, you know, to change, and I know you're normalizing it. But but again to to even feel that it's a good decision to do that can be really helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you are reading the room. It is always the best decision, always right? So I'm so glad that you're putting an underline on that point, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of my coolest exercises have come out of spur of the moment reading the room and being like, Oh, wait! This needs to happen next before we get to the next step on the journey, and kind of making it up on the spot. So also a a lot of a lot can come out of those moments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paula.
Paula Ackermann: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, it was just really lovely cause. Like I was. I was one of the people that was done, and everything. But then your allowance with that, let me like listen to the rest of it from a different place from a place where it was okay that I was done.
Paula Ackermann: and I was able to attend in a way that worked better for my brain than sitting in the chair and just being, you know. So it was just lovely, you know, and it was much appreciated and lovely and just great modeling.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm first of all, I'm so glad. And second of all I want to put. I want to pull out cause there, there's a a new, important piece in in what you're saying. Which is normalizing everybody's experience. Right? It is okay for you to be here as you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you normalize that, then it can give permission for a participant to not show up perfectly, or you know they thought they needed to show up this way, or however it is, and then to take in what they need in that moment. Right? Yeah. And I think you know, with nera divergent brains which I identify as having. There's this, like.
Paula Ackermann: you know, there's like this, you gotta be sitting there and look like you're paying attention like everyone else. Whereas really, if I'm moving around a little bit and stuff, I'm really able to attend better. So it kind of, you know, it's just kind of like more permission and more allowance for showing up as I can. So thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you. I'm gonna I wanna share a small thing about that. In case this is not so much for groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): although it could be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also for one on one from practitioner point of view.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm pretty neurotypical, but not completely. And might
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my first years of coaching. It was on the phone, I still one on one I still tried to do on the phone versus Zoom. And the reason is because I hate to sit still.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in my first years of coaching I would notice that as I was coaching my clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would start folding laundry mostly, and for, like the first year I hated on my I was like, what is wrong with you, Joanne. You're supposed to be fully present to your clients. Why are you constantly walking around? Then it was in Brooklyn. It was tiny little apartment. Why are you constantly walking around your apartment? And then, when you are still, you're folding laundry. You know what what's going on with you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But then I came to realize that that's how I did my best work. That's how I channel. That's how I really tuned in, right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna normalize whether it's facilitator or participant. You know, we we all have different ways. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I could do a better job as a facilitator. And I'm noting just noting this for everyone you can in the beginning of a class or a retreat, say to people, you know, if you need to doodle, if you need to knit, if you need right, like, whatever whatever works for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be present in the way that works best for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Go for it right wi within reason, if it's you know, if if there's certain bounds, or it's since you're all in the room together, that right. But as much as we can give permission for people to do what's good for them to be present
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the better.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks, Paula.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! What else, either on this or what is coming through for you? What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has been coming together? What's been feeling important. Ray
Rai Jordan: I had to leave early yesterday because I had a visioning circle to facilitate
Rai Jordan: and
Rai Jordan: as I'm hearing you speak I realized that I wasn't alone in the fact that I was really exhausted yesterday.
Rai Jordan: and I'm so grateful for the the normalizing. I had 2 more appointments, and then at 6 PMI went to bed.
Rai Jordan: and I slept for 12 h because I was so exhausted.
Rai Jordan: But it was a good kind of exhaustion, because there's so much percolating in me, and I made a decision that surprises me and yet feels so right, which is that I'm going to allow the same kind of spaciousness
Rai Jordan: in my process
Rai Jordan: around the curriculum and the marketing as what I'm hearing you did yesterday.
Rai Jordan: I have felt this sense of urgency because I have 2 events coming up next week, because they're around New Years
Rai Jordan: and wanting to, just. you know, absorb and take in and suck in. So much so I can put it in that curriculum.
Rai Jordan: And I decided that the most important thing this is not going to surprise you. The most important thing is the energetics, you know. It's you know what Kate shared about. It's the in between the lines.
Rai Jordan: and that's part of my archetype. That's the radiance. The radiance is the in between the lines. So I'm gonna go over my notes. I'm gonna pull out the things that are easily accessible for me to infuse in the curriculum
Rai Jordan: for next week.
Rai Jordan: I'm gonna let the marketing be the marketing. I'm not gonna fuss with that right now. I'm very intentional about making the change, but it's a huge shift for me, the way that you are teaching us about marketing. And so I'm this is not resistance or myth of perfection. I just know that I need time first to absorb it.
Rai Jordan: because that will make it easier for me to write. So I'm really excited about that. And I'm also, you know, we talked at at the break about the winter piece.
Rai Jordan: and and attempting to offer a reach a circle that aligns with the season of winter, and how people at the beginning of the year thing about winter, they're about their goals and making it happen. And so I'm gonna wait until next year at. So I've had time to. I mean, I I've been in a winter season for a while.
Rai Jordan: but how do I translate that into the marketing because you were really encouraging me to realize that my marketing for that type of thing needs to include education. And I want to give myself time to make that shift in how I do marketing and not pressure myself.
Rai Jordan: So feel good about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay, yes. I love it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): walking your winter talk.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else. What's coming through? What's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): been clicking, resonating? Where are you at?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What came through your dreams? Who wants to share?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie?
Dr. Josie: Yeah, this kind of kind of pulls everything together. But like yesterday I was feeling just like wiped out without really realizing it. So I was really happy about you ending early because I was like, oh, my brain's just fried, but I facilitated a it's like a pretty much a shamonic journey. Last night at about 90'clock for the eve of solstice.
I had more people there than I'd had ever before. There was probably about 12 of us, and I just so about and opening up space and allowing things to just be I literally II mentioned it right at the forefront. I said, if you don't want to put on your zoom camera, if you can come back on if you want. I gave them all of these options to just be with where they were, and we all went so deep, and there were so many synchronicities, it was really awesome.
And then this morning I woke up, and there
Dr. Josie: all these people were sharing, and people who didn't show up were like, Oh, I wish I would have been there. And so it's just set this whole ball into motion, because we're doing like a full 12 days of Yuletide up until January first. And you know, I never know how it's gonna go, because people have so many family obligations and stuff. But it was just a really awesome kick off so thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, I'm so so happy to hear it so well done. Yay.
Dr. Josie: thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have time for one more share. You feel like there might be one more. What's moving through you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you seeing? Where are you in resistance?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's coming together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what's to be spoken?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily's
Annelise Pesa: yeah, that was quite
Annelise Pesa: Another big insight yesterday, because II just had complete, you know, resistance, as you noticed, with what I had done. And then, you know, when I read your message that you know that was amazing. I was like, how can I? Just
Annelise Pesa: you know Joanna, who for me is like, you know, the most incredible teacher says to me, that is amazing. When I thought that was complete. Crap!
And I thought.
Annelise Pesa: I just need to be more into that. That was a clear resistance, and I just need to be more intentional with that energy. And
Annelise Pesa: when I'm not intentional. I just lose it completely, and I don't know if
Annelise Pesa: yeah it, you know I can send. I just sent. I've just lost it yesterday, and I just
Annelise Pesa: cause the day before it was so intense. And then it's almost like going skiing the first day you go. Oh, yeah, I can ski, and then the next day you're like, Oh, I'm not good at it. But actually, you're not. You know you're you're okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right. Yes. and what you're speaking to is, you know, something we need to remember for ourselves in our own human experiences
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well as something that's so important for us to remember as practitioners and leaders is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're all like this sometimes that this is longer and that right. But we don't go all the way down or right, but it's not, it's not static, and it it's not meant to be. And and sometimes we feel better. And we're fully present, and we're in flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then other times we're not. We go into resistance, or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's it's part of the process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for ourselves. My biggest disappointments are when I think it's gonna like, Happen perfectly. And I'm just gonna get through the whole thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): easily, right. And in my first years as a facilitator, those were my biggest disappointments, too, when I thought that though, like it was going to be like this for everybody or just this right? That's that's not how we work. And so the more as we hold space that we can hold space for the the full experience the better.
Annelise Pesa: Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, it can either be in the chat or voice to voice. Let's like a quick review. Tell us your understanding of activating gaps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From all that we've learned. What's your understanding of activating gaps and why we do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Share in the chat. And also, if you want to raise your hand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy, saying, to meet our clients where they're at. Yes, Robin is saying, helping people see the space between what they're experiencing and what they want to experience. Yes, Annelise is saying where they are, which is not yet. I not right now, ideal. And then where they would like to be. That's the vision. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie, saying, to clarify for the client where they're at, yes, all of these to get into the shoes of our client and connect with where they are in their journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful Cecilia is saying, help them articulate. What might not be as clear? What do we wanna keep in mind so as to stay ethical
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and trauma informed. When we're activating the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do we want to keep in mind so that we stay ethical and trauma-informed when we activate the gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No shame, no blame. Yes, exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do we wanna keep in mind
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we activate the vision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to be ethical and also to really for everybody to have the best experience
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): possibility, not guarantee. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney, seeing in the chat. I've been thinking of it since our session yesterday, as this is back to the gap, as related to the idea that representation can allow us to see and understand things about ourselves, that we might not even realize or be able to articulate if we didn't see them mirrored in the world that I love, that is so beautiful, and to me, that feels so spot on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Monica is saying. They're always in control of their choices, too. Yes, when we activate Gap, it is with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): honor and respect, and and seeing our prospects in their highest and in their agency. Davis saying, for vision, no false promises, yes, exactly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else that wants to be spoken on gap or vision before we move on to the next piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No. okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in any marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whether it is a sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whether it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a a sales conversation, whether it is an email in in some ways to gonna wanna activate some gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): gonna want to activate some vision.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then, as I've been saying, it's like we have. We've then outlined the bookends of the journey for the reader. Right? They see where they are now. They see where they're going to end up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The next thing we want to do is paint a picture
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the prospect to see a pathway like, how would it even be possible to get from A
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to Z, the more that we can illustrate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a pathway for them, so that they can clearly see. Oh, there is a way to get to that place. And this is a way that really resonates for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then the more confident they're gonna be that they can get to that end place with the tools of that journey, IE.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The course right and the the steps of of that are our
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): main curriculum steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or pillars
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that make sense.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's really what we're doing next is we take the reader through the journey of the sales page right through the this story is now we're gonna show this to them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let me show you some
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): examples.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): A.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me share my screen. So again, you can do this in long form. You can do this, in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): short form
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): depends on how much, how much you like words, and also a little bit. You know how long your program is. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the life, changing courses. sales. Page. I took a little bit more time with the bridge, and before I got to each of the steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had this section, which is kind of and you don't need to have this. I just want to be clear. But I just want to show you a range of of possibilities on this. This was kind of a transition to the bridge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this section was kind of like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all the steps in one. If you will like. What is the thing that allows you to get to the endpoints? Well, overall? It's curriculum and facilitation that gets results right. That's really what all the steps are about, though in, you know, they're they're more detailed, or each one has its own thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And here I just kind of went
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more into what I mean by this overarching bridge of curriculum and facilitation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that gets results.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also could have just ended this section right at this gold line here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I didn't necessarily need to go on and on here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but then from there. And I went on even more, you do not have to do this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where you, where you really want to get to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are the steps?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So I literally could have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taken all of this out again, because I'm already it's in there. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I could have here. How? How are we going to achieve all of this together?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or how do we do this? And life changing courses?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then again, this is longer form.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This isn't every single class.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because this it would have gotten even longer. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these are the the units I called them of the program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the first get clear on your thought leadership opt in effective curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): create experiential and somatic exercises.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): become a master group facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): learn how to mitigate and navigate client resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): create community
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): claiming your place right? This is the inner work systems.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, this is in long form. But I wanna. I want to point this out to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are, and I could even get clearer right. And I say that just to say like no myth of perfection, right? But the steps are clear. They're not fancy language. They're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): language that somebody wouldn't understand what it would mean. It it is clear like this is, ha! This is what we do in this step. Get clear on your unique thought. Leadership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and craft curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): create experiential and somatic exercises right? I'm not speaking in any failed language that someone wouldn't understand what it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the longer form writing, which, again, yours does not have to be this long. I'm going to show you an example of something shorter
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in these first 2 sentences. I am activating gap and vision on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): topic only
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when your curriculum lacks intention and flow, your students can't connect to the work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they end up feeling overwhelmed and dissatisfied. They may have a nice experience, but we want to create a transformative experience. Right? I'm activating gap here on this topic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I activate vision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): will unpack the core elements of your thought leadership and create the the framework that allows your work to stand out as unique and special
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a a right on and on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's activating the vision on this topic of Unit one. And then I mention some of the Mini steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You don't have to do this. This is because this program is long, and I like words right? This is almost the steps within the steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this topic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that's what I do for each of the units.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Rahul.
Rochel Keller: So one of the things that keeps on coming out to me is we can't give them any false promises.
Rochel Keller: So instead of saying. This is what you'll do. Should we be saying? This is what you may do.
Rochel Keller: you may find that this is happening, or you may find that you can do this or explo
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the vision. Yes, you know, if you want to use that language
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for me, for the bridge, and we all have to do what we feel is comfortable and right and aligned for us. But I have a here's what you'll receive. I know I am covering this in my curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when I say you will. This is these are not end products. This is you. You will uncover. Well, this one is, you'll understand how to take your complex. You know. I feel like I can stand
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): behind this.
Rochel Keller: But if you don't, then yeah, you can use different kinds of language. No, but what I'm saying is, you know that you're gonna present this. we don't know that they're gonna understand this. You're gonna try and implement it. You're gonna try to explain it to them.
Rochel Keller: But going along that process of false. We don't know if they don't understand us, because II think what goes on here, a lot of us are getting it on the second and third explanation.
Rochel Keller: but you still are getting it. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so again, it's what you feel. You know, everybody has a different comfort level in terms of what feels right. I love that you're bringing this up like for me. I feel comfortable to say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you'll understand this, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if that doesn't feel right for you, you have to go with what feels right in your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then you can. You can use that other language. If you want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me see what's happening in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin is asking how much detail I'm gonna show an example with much less detail. Robin
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for me. The longer the program I tend to to put more detail in. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as I keep on saying, I mean.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): probably my sales pages could be shorter, and they might be that way. I just can't, you know, and I already take so much out. Ii like to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I like to use more words.
Robyn Vogel: I think I have a question on that.
Robyn Vogel: you wrote. You have like Unit one unit 2. It's just a question on language
Robyn Vogel: like.
Robyn Vogel: I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Actually teaching. It's like we've we're already looked at resistance. We're gonna keep on looking resist at resistance. But I pulled it out as a separate unit, because it's so important. And what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people to know about it exactly same with curriculum like, we're still working on curriculum and thought leadership right? It it so. The presentation is cyclical. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a sales page we have to kind of present something linear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida, I think.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): y. Your question will become more clear as I share another example, but if not, then raise your hand so that I can get it answered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, so, Kelly, the units don't need to align with the classes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): per se. They can, but they don't have to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me show another example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this is, we looked at this yesterday the authentic and ethical sales conversations.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have modules here. So again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now I'm calling. It modules right and different sales pages. I call it different things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The first one activate powerful energetics for your sales conversations, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit of gap.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here. The worst thing you can do is to enter a prospect process without the right energetics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's when you hedge drop the ball block intimacy with the prospect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc., right? So this activation of gap
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): refers specifically to the topic of this module.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have some of the key
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): points within that this Mini journey right. Remember, we've been talking about. There's always A mini journey within each step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have some of those key points here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right same with each of these modules.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kalita. Did that answer your question.
Kellita Maloof: Oh, I have to tell the truth, I was. I was. I was. I didn't know you were answering that right then, and I was. I was focusing on
Kellita Maloof: thinking about what Monica brought up, which was the
Kellita Maloof: steps, rather than being modular, that there'll be this reinforcing. So it's more of an element or a layer. So putting it in the module form. Actually, I don't know that I'll be able
Kellita Maloof: to do that. It'll
Kellita Maloof: that might be confusing to them and to me to try to put it in modular form.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you can think of it as an element. Also. Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that robin.
Robyn Vogel: So I know I feel like, I'm asking basic questions. So should I use like the 4 gates that I that are part of my curriculum?
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, yeah, okay, exactly. And then you can have some like bullet points in there, if you want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the like, the steps within the steps. So you just those 4 gates and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think you just answered it and Robbins, but but with my idea, I had created, like the 3 pillars, and underneath them each of the modules, so it would be sort of the
larger, larger frame of the pillars would be
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): organize and then put the modules beneath it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, and you may not want to put all the modules also, right like this is where I don't have every single thing that we're covering in here. I'm picking the most important pieces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want to show. I just want to show a few more examples. If you want. Even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I find bullet points to be easy, you know, easier than paragraphs. But so this is the advanced
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): letter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the way I did it here is there's there's 6 retreats. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this the bridge here is just each retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I don't have bullet points at all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I just speak to why, the gap in the vision! Why, each of these retreats as a step
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for what my ideal client for the program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wants to create.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just so that you can see now that you're looking at it in this way. -Oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes the zoom stuff goes over my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can't click. Okay, let's see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And remember, we looked at this yesterday, this very short 3 h workshop.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is the bridge here. Here's part of what we'll do together in amazing community. And then just each of the steps are a checkmark.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's it. That's the whole bridge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jen Gens: when it's for a longer program.
Jen Gens: yeah, for you know, I'm curious what you did for sacred depths.
Jen Gens: Honestly, I don't even read your sales pages. I just say, yes.
Jen Gens: it's just true. So like referrals, y'all the best sales. Page.
Jen Gens: I mean, yeah, it's actually pretty good nugget. But anyway, I had broken mine my program in the past into broken it up into 3 phases for people, just especially when I'm on a sales call just to
Jen Gens: it's already a lot. They've already gone through a lot. Going through the that
Jen Gens: first call. So 3 phases kind of just made some bullet points, and then I'll send that information to them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's great. I yeah. I'm just wondering if
Jen Gens: if I should maybe include, since it's let's say, 9 months.
Jen Gens: maybe 9, but short nuggets, or just the 3
Jen Gens: break it down into 3 phases.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it it really is about what feels best for you, and what is manageable with your energy and the time that you have, I think it can be very effective
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes. Too many like when you get into 9. It's a lot for people to take in right? You could have 3, and if you want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for each of the 3 you could have 3 bullet points of the 3 things within that you just read my mind. Yeah. So that's much easier to take in. And then, if you want, have a sentence or 2 just on each of the main 3 phases, and we'll practice doing a sentence or 2 in a few minutes. I'll give some instructions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on that
straight
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any other thoughts or questions before we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I'm gonna let me put into the chat. Okay? So first of all, let me put into the chat these different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): examples. But what's happening here? So here's the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): authentic enrollments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's the advance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): death. By the way, when I share with you all more about advanced staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is, you'll see there's a special rate on this brochure that's just for all of you here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I'm sharing with you the brochure, you'll get after it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share more with you about it, and then I'll share with you this this short one, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the shadow workshop.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so just so you have different things. But I'm gonna actually give you instruction right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pick a step or a pillar or a layer that would be part of your bridge
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on your sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any any just one step or pillar, module layer, etc.,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that everybody have one that they can play with for right now. just as an experiment.
Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first, just write it out right. Step one or module one, or maybe it's layer 5, whatever it is for right now write that out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And actually, you know, what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does someone? Just so I can use an example for all of us. Does someone want to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the steps. They're gonna work on right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Data. Great.
Deva Munay: Okay? I'm pulling it up.
Deva Munay: And this is
Deva Munay: something that I have done. The 7 wonders of sound online immersion.
Deva Munay: In the past. And then
Deva Munay: I didn't realize. But I had said I was thinking about giving this donation of this, you know, for our Essiline tribe, and then they're like, well, we did it. So I'm like, Oh, my gosh! Now I'm doing this again. But so mine is going through each of the Chakras over 7 months. So I was gonna just start with the root, Chakra. And what are you calling that stuff?
Deva Munay: Well, that's what I was going to ask. I'm just calling it Root Chakra, because it is linear. In that each session goes over.
Deva Munay: A different.
Deva Munay: The chakras sequentially. So I'm not sure gonna work for you. What is the core of the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what they're going to receive or experience in the root? Chakra, by by learning about the root, Chakra.
Deva Munay: is it that they're going to be more grounded tools to become more grounded, to connect to the earth, doing earthing practices?
Deva Munay: You learned crystals and the
deeper connection to sound.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna pause. You there. This is great. So for everyone again. Remember, I said, you wanna call the steps. Something clear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now. Probably a lot of Dava's people know what root Chakra is, but even if they do, we wanna give it something that has like a pull to it. So this may not end up being exactly it, Dava, but as an example, I would name that step on the sales page something like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you want to keep root, Chakra, and they're great root, Chakra Colon, yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're using new language. We're getting it like a core. Right? First thing we need to do to get to the end ground yourself.
Deva Munay: Yep, okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So then from there tell us very, very briefly what happens when your ideal clients aren't grounded or connected to the earth.
Deva Munay: They're scattered. They're unorganized. They're feeling
Deva Munay: overwhelmed.
Deva Munay: they're
Deva Munay: feeling disconnected to their higher wisdom.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to pause you there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so as an example for everybody and for David Davis first, if she was just gonna do a couple of sentences on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): her first sentence might say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you're not grounded, you likely end up feeling scattered, disorganized, overwhelmed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and disconnected.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's why the first step on our journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is to go deep into the root, Chakra, and get grounded.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That makes sense so far.
Deva Munay: Yeah, that's super helpful.
Deva Munay: And with it, starting on the spring equinox, would you make anything like
Deva Munay: specific to the time of year of working with the season. So the whole journey is spring equinox to fall
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): autumn equipment. I think it would be easier to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not in each section, but maybe somewhere else on the page to make a note. It's such an auspicious time for us to be doing this work because the world is in rebirth, and this that, and the other thing, I wouldn't necessarily put it into the bridge.
Deva Munay: Okay, but like the heart. Chakra falls on summer solstice, like, okay? So yeah, if you if you've like, planned it, that kind of yeah, you can put that in there for sure.
Deva Munay: Okay, okay, so I'm gonna give us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just 5 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for each of you to do your own example of just that first sentence. Right? So again, I'm going to share what I shared for David, and then you apply it to everybody. Apply it to your staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you're not grounded, you are more likely to become scattered, disorganized, overwhelmed, and disconnected.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is why we start our journey with the root, Chakra.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and getting grounded.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, you don't have to use that exact language. You can be as creative as you want. But practice doing a sentence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of Ga
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on whatever step you're experimenting with right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Robin, that's great in the chat. Exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can relate that gap to the end result. I didn't do it with Dava's because I didn't have all of that. The end result like at my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): top of you know tongue. But you end up, you know. If it's about business you end up scattered in your business, or you end up blah blah! Blah in your relationships. If the if the courses about relationships right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll take another half minute with this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy, I'm glad you're here. We're we're talking about bridge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! How did that go so far?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, just. We have time for one share of a sentence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen
Jen Gens: it was really helpful with Dava, because that's also part of my program. So shout out to grounding cord. And so that was super helpful.
But again, for me, it's it's like I'm trying to
Jen Gens: like fold in a few things since it's like this. What's the what's that? First third?
Jen Gens: I called it, awaken your intuitive wisdom, but it really has to do with grounding
Jen Gens: creating structure. I can read you what I wrote from the past. It's short.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like 2 sentences. If you want. Yeah. Umhm.
Jen Gens: create sacred structure to anchor into what you truly want and
Jen Gens: clarity in your next steps forward.
Jen Gens: strengthen your intuition by refining deeper listening skills within your temple body, and trust your unique senses as gifts for more ease and flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love all of that that's great. The one suggestion I would make is related to finding and living your purpose.
Jen Gens: Yes, okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. Let's keep on going with this experiment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David. Can we continue to use you as an example?
Deva Munay: Yeah, that would be great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, tell us in one sentence, what's the end goal of the tell? First, just tells very, very briefly the end goal of the program. What are people going to walk away with like in in one sentence?
Deva Munay: Come away feeling aligned with your higher wisdom and open-hearted
Deva Munay: with inner peace.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So why is getting grounded?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Important to that end? Result? Why do they? Why is root Chakra, essential to being able to be ultimately be connected to your higher wisdom and have an open heart.
Deva Munay: Well, like it's all of the Chakras. So I was trying to just summarize it in one sentence. But maybe the overarching is not. It's align, all of your
Deva Munay: Chakras energy centers
Deva Munay: to be
Deva Munay: in flow with your highest wisdom. But would you say, I guess what I'm where I'm getting stuck is? Would you do like a bullet for each Chakra in the end of what you're gonna walk away with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm suggesting each Chakra is a step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So we started working on the route one. You're gonna do a little writing just on the route. I'm sorry I thought you were asking about the whole program. Oh, no, no, no, just so. You might, for example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just one sentence of activating vision for root. Chakra get grounded.
Deva Munay: you might say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you are connected to your root
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the earth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you are much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more. I don't know. I'm just making this up, but it stabilizes you and your system
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to start connecting in with your higher wisdom. That might not be it. But I'm just using this as an example for everyone of just one sentence on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the staff.
Deva Munay: Well, and then that's the bridge to. Then you connect to your creativity. Then you can actually, then you get to the rest of the open your heart, speak your truth, empower your voice.
Deva Munay: activate your intuition, but you would just do it one step at a time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Exactly. Does that make sense everyone?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright? So I'll give you a minute or 2 to now do vision right? So one sentence on, why this step, or why this unit, or why this layer, or why this module?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how it can help right? Why, it is an important step on the journey to the end. Result.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jen Gens: So for Davis and she has 7, she would have the when you're not grounded. This is why it's so important. And this is why I'm so important is the vision statement. Or there's a third
sentence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 sentences per step for her essentially, is what we're I mean. It depends on how long for our ease. Right now I'm doing like a sentence vision, just so that you don't have to do a lot of writing. It can be that simple.
Jen Gens: And for her she has like 7. She wants to do the 7 chakras. And for her it'd be like
Jen Gens: this thing like ground yourself. And then 2 sentences, just for the purpose of what we're doing. And then. okay, cool. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take another minute.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate, it's beautiful. I was waiting because I wanted to pull it for everyone but what what you wrote spot on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so let's pause here, Courtney, to answer your question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I, the conventional marketing wisdom says, to use more, you then we I. So I mostly use you. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I end up. We feels more appropriate for certain things. It's just kind of like by feel. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you should try to let people say, use you as much as possible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate has a beautiful example in the in the chat, which you know, I'm kind of. I'm leading us through this very simply one sentence. gap one sentence, vision. Once you understand the concept that's great to do it that way. But you can also start to play. Use the other examples I have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate has a great example in here as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that can be enough. Right? Just the gap and the vision for each step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you want to add a couple of bullet points on some of the specifics, and then what gets covered in there? You can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you don't have to, or if you're short on time, you don't have to, and you put it out there and then when you have time, you add more of it, in which is what I often do as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy's asking, is there gap in Kate's example?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's not explicit. It's a it's a. It's a like a little more nuance, but I think it's implicit in you know what she's writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's a great
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I it's a great example of, even if you don't do it. Here's the gap. Here's the vision. How the importance of the step comes through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! What are you learning so far. What's clicking? What are you seeing? What's feeling important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the bridge pieces?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me know that you're with me, or that you're not, in which case I will help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what what are you? Even if you haven't nailed your sentences? What are you seeing and learning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): daunting, so helpful, terrifying curriculum steps. Yeah, it really can. Then sometimes I have my overarching steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then I go to write my sales page, and as I'm you know, taking the time to write it out. I'm like, Oh, wait! No! Actually, my curriculum was going to change in this way and this way, and the sales page helped me clarify that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): So this is super helpful for me for clarifying the curriculum itself, and I'm wondering and noticing now
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): whether the the sort of my, the way that I've set up my
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): sections, or I don't know I'm gonna call them that right modules. The whole first one is about like, okay. So what are we even talking about? It's very mental. It's very, not not only mental, but it's very much about like
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): framing the concepts. And and that kind of thing. And I'm wondering now, as I'm doing this like, does this does that belong in here.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): or do we jump right into the more
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): active
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): units.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If I'm understanding what you're you're saying correctly, I think I am.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why is it important for your ideal client as the first step on the journey to define concept these concepts.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): I mean, I think.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): because
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): there are.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): So. My, I'm so I'm so inarticulate because of my head is
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): very congested. So I apologize for that.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): So my
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): program is reclaiming story. The first unit I'm calling this is has to be totally renamed because this isn't going to speak to anyone just for my own logic. I'm calling it right now. Recognizing the over straight and the the
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): intention of the first unit is to frame the conceptual container. So talking about not only like, why do we need to reclaim our story? And what does that even mean? In the first place, it's also just a basic like, what is story? What's our relationship to story? How does story function in
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): culture? How does it? How do? How does it function within ourselves in terms of how we make meaning, how we understand our ourselves, our place in
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): in our communities, in our families, in the world at large, all of that kind of thing. So it's it's big conceptual stuff. But it's also very personal stuff.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): That also, people might be coming into this work thinking story like, Oh, this is about picking up a book and reading a book only. Or this is about watching a movie only, or something that's like
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): outside of self, as like story as an escape from like those really aren't
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): likely to be my people. But it's it's an assumption that people may be coming to this with. So it feels really important to
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): to invite people into like, what? What even is story? And why is it so important? Him
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): our lives? And and why is it an important part of cleaning our agency?
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): But is that I guess my real question is. do I need to sort of lay that out in a sales page like, for sure, that's part of
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): the curriculum. But do I need to lay that out in a sales page? Or am I assuming that anyone is going to resonate with my work
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): is gonna is gonna like, doesn't need that or wants to get to? Okay? Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then, what are we gonna do?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's such a great question. Yes, you need to address that on your sales page because you can't make the assumption that people know or even make the assumption that people that do know are gonna like really be knowing it in that moment. You know this so well, cause it's like you live and breathe it, but not anyone else. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have its way in. I want it to make its way somewhere on your sales page, and it can end up in one of 2 places.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, as the first module, and I would. If you do it that way, I would. I'm using your words. I would name it something like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is story? And why is it so important to claim your agency.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something like that that might not be grammatically correct, right? Like. In that clear language. You actually said those things twice, and that is, that is the thing that's gonna connect with people right? And then you write a little bit about it with some of those points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you choose not to put it in the bridge. I would put it somewhere above, in the.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in, the, in the vision I would have a section that says.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what actually is story? And why is it so important either in terms of agency or in your life? Or why is it important to reclaim it in your life, and I would have something there.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Thank you. That's helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you're welcome. Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Thank you. So I am looking at this template. So I'm looking like at the overall page. We began with
Cecilia Kremer: you know, like naming and articulating where they are at the beginning, after the journey, and then the vision.
Cecilia Kremer: And now I'm going to go through the modules.
Cecilia Kremer: And we talked about details.
Cecilia Kremer: So II like the example that you share that has, like the module
Cecilia Kremer: title.
Cecilia Kremer: and then there's a, you know, a little blurb around like what is the issue here? And then the bullet points. But then that blurb. It doesn't need as much detail right? Cause. Now, we're just
Cecilia Kremer: in an abstract way, summarizing the details, because otherwise it can. We're just repeating ourselves. So I'm I'm
Cecilia Kremer: trying to have a better grasp at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, so then it's just a sentence, right? Why, this is why this step is so important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the bullets.
Cecilia Kremer: Yeah. So it's like A and let's say, a summary of the issue that we're going to be dealing with. And then
Cecilia Kremer: you know the steps of to to manage or to deal, or to to? Yeah. And I would say, Yes, it's a summary of the issue. But you always want to connect it back to the end result?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are why are you bothering to take your hero? Nobody wants to waste their time right? Why is this step absolutely necessary and relevant to get to the result?
Cecilia Kremer: Okay.
Cecilia Kremer: alright. Okay. So the template that I have is like when you are. And the problem. You're more likely to, and the consequences. I will all cover the steps.
Cecilia Kremer: Okay, that's the vision part. Okay? Got it. Okay, thank you. I'm I'm trying to, you know, grasp. This feels still a little bit abstract from me. But this is, yeah. This helps me kind of ground myself and check.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? Good. Good. Yeah. And it takes a minute. And that's also why, look at the different examples that I shared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But for everybody for each of this it's very similar to when we when I asked you to put together your steps for your curriculum, right? Why, what are the steps, and why is each one important on the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's essentially what we're articulating here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and Nina, I'm sorry that you missed. You're that you're going in and out. Hopefully, your connection is, gonna get more stable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah, I was trying to figure out how far to go with the vision. So and this one's a little tricky, because this, my first step, is the. This is change-making step, which is more around mindset and the way that we're holding it. But it feels really foundational. And so when I'm looking at the vision, when I first wrote it, it's
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it was sort of using what you used with Deva was when you're connected to this concept, you can experience self care and healing as their own active service, as revolutionary movement towards change, in a form of resistance to outdated forms of working, thinking, and being. But then I was like, is that kind of too far out in terms of what they're aiming for, and should it be.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you'll learn how to release the not enoughness, or understand that this is what it is, because I don't. The language that you, the first language that you use important for Kelly and for everyone. Do you notice how it is a little bit up here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whereas you'll release the not good enough is here, and I've mentioned that a couple of times on this retreat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our marketing we want to pretend like we're talking to a 6 year old, and I don't mean to demean our prospects at all. That's not my point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But my point is, it has to be simple, understandable language that really like that grabs them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the you'll release that I'm not good enough
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is much more grabbing than it will speak to the resistance. Right? So yes, to going with the the direct
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): language.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and closer in like not the
II think there are some like in this case. It does sound kind of like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): lofty, but it's also these people get really excited about lofty. And so the idea of like, Oh, I could contain this, or hold this as like part of revolution, is exciting for people so but that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that yes, right, you can add a bullet point or whatever. However, you're gonna set it up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when the more you learn this for yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more you can also help lead the revolution on. Sorry, you know, however, but do you see how that is just more direct.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): totally. So that would be like a later, a further down bullet point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Exactly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Alright great. Thank you.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There is another part to the bridge
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you to consider.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me share my screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How do I move this? Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you're laying out the step by step of your hero's journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you have bonuses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're gonna add that in this section as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the other part of the bridge is the practical
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how right? So now we have the the thought leadership, how or the the content, how we're going to get to the end result.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you also want to speak to the the format as well as part of the how right? So you want to have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some kind of section
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that lays out. So this is a very short. It's 5 h of training
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sales, scripts, right? Something that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): lays it out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this is very short form.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's see how we did it in life changing courses. So these are the bonuses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's how I did it in life. Changing courses. Right? I'm laying out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is how much training you get line retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Get it done, sessions, and I'm in this one. I included just a sentence on each, so people can see the value even more of the value and the power in it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? 21 h of live training.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): solid gold content, dozens of tips and techniques. time for workshopping. And Q&A, so they see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's gonna get done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See if I can show you another example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No, no, if I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know I did it a little bit differently here in advance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no, that's not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's see, how did I do it here?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, here we go
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, that's another way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you have choices in this. but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you want to let people know how you're doing it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What the, what the actual time involved is, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want to go back to this for a moment. If you're going to include a sentence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again. What I wanna just emphasize is that the sentence isn't just for extra writing, but it's to show
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): why that component is important and essential on the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): get it done. Sessions. We're not just like we looked at in program design. We're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just throwing in a component just to throw it in. However, we design the program is because we feel that that is important to yield results.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So we're gonna explain why. Here, 13 h of get it done. Sessions will come together almost weekly for you to come craft your curriculum in community with fees.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See what's happening in the chat?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. David's asking about testimonials. Well. talk a little bit more about testimonials later. But yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can either have it in one place or scattered throughout. I think it depends on the length of your page, and just how you're designing it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jen Gens: For my sales page. It feels right like when you're when you're talking about.
Jen Gens: you know, saying why or kind of showing what's included it.
Jen Gens: I feel like this is probably obvious. But I just wanna mention it. It feels right to like
Jen Gens: show.
Jen Gens: Actually, I don't know if it's obvious to show each module that I want to present
is that
Jen Gens: would that be too much?
Jen Gens: If it's for a 9 month
Jen Gens: program, meaning like the even just like the title of what each module we're going to cover is
Jen Gens: too much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think if it feels important. Yeah, you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if it feels like a lot as you're looking at it, you can either put 2 together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thought I, do that sometimes I kind of combine 2 into one, or play with how it looks visually on the page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that it people can take in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, bolding things, etc. So you kind of have to just take a look and see, what does this also look like visually? And then how do I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): arrange it?
Jen Gens: Okay, yeah. I'm getting the bullet point download again. Okay, cool.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Rahul.
Rochel Keller: let's hope this never happens. But suppose you do this whole
Rochel Keller: sales page, and everything is really great, and you give that the schedule and the times and everything else. I suppose
Rochel Keller: 3 people show up.
Rochel Keller: You still do. The course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): depends.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you still want to do the course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it feels like, it's worth your time investment and energy investment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then you do the course. If you decide
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not worth my time or energy investment. Or I, really, this program needs a minimum amount of ex people for me to do what I wanted to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then maybe you don't do it. But if that's the case I wouldn't just tell people I'm sorry we're not doing it and let them go. I would create another at the same price point that they invested. I might offer private, or I might rejig it for 3 people to work really well, and then really talk that up, and how that's gonna be amazing, and see if they're willing to.
Rochel Keller: Right? Okay, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have done. And just so everybody knows I've done both. I once or twice I have cancelled something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a couple of times I've gone along with it. But I've just made it more intimate, right? And I've let people know this is gonna be even better, because it's gonna be even intimate. And this is a little bit how we're gonna shift things because of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And everybody was very happy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important about the bridge section? What are you seeing? What are you learning, Kathy?
Cathy Norris: I don't know if this is sorry. I just was starting to write in the chat. So you just asked to make it ask. But I've been a little surprised by your response to Jen's question about stating the modules.
Cathy Norris: And
Cathy Norris: for 2 reason, I mean, you said not. You were like, no, only if
Cathy Norris: it was definitely not a
Cathy Norris: you sounding. Yeah, it's a good idea, or whatever. I don't know the way I interpreted your answer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you mean, when she was saying to list all of them.
Cathy Norris: yeah, I and maybe she has. Maybe I don't know, Jim. Maybe you have a lot for 9 months. I suppose that. But like you did units in one of your examples. And and also because when I design my course, I'm making each module so important because that's how I designing it. So it's like it just makes sense that I would
Cathy Norris: that they would coincide so well, and even that the name of the module. And then, of course, the way you told us to explain why it's important. So I think you came in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cause you came in late? Jen asked this question earlier, she said.
Cathy Norris: In her 9 months she sees it in 3 sections. So we were talking about her already describing the 3 pillars and then putting each of the specific modules under all good. I'm glad you clarified
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and also I will say, I don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like with sacred depths. I actually don't list every single module, because there are so many in sacred depths. I bunch some a lot. But like II bunch some together. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's that. And Paula. Yes, you could also share that. It will start when there's enough interest with the wait list. Absolutely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I'm feeling like we should take a break. Let's take 13 min and we'll come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at 1250,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so we'll take 13 min. We'll come back at 1250. I'll hang on for a minute or 2 if anybody needs anything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're here, let me know by turning your camera on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember. no myth of perfection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I mean by that in this moment is like, Oh, my gosh! I don't wanna write
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something about each of the steps. It is too much. I just it's not for me. Then don't do it right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): list, each of the steps out on your sales page. and that is good enough
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in addition. if you know that your people don't like to read that they're not high in research.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): don't include you know, include each of the steps right? But don't do a lot more of the writing. There are sales pages out there that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So look at the bridge, the way that we did here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and my guess is that some of them convert, you know. So just what is what is that quote like? Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the getting it done, or I don't like what I just watched that. But whatever that is, just.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing is, I said this earlier, and I want to say it again a little more slowly. There have been plenty of times that I have put out a sales page. That is not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where I want it to be, but it just needed to be put out because it was time the launch was happening. And then I went back and I slowly changed things, or I didn't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even yesterday. And today as we've been looking at the authentic Enrollment Conversation sales page, I'm like, Oh, wait! I want to go back and do this, that and the other thing, you know, and that's been around that sales page has been around for years, and I've changed it many times over the years.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's all good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be too precious
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about any of our marketing. It's gonna end up holding us back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We wanna include as much of the elements that we're talking about over these days as possible as much time and energy as we have to look at the words specific. You know all the things we're talking about, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we also just can't be too precious about it. Cause then we're we're gonna drive ourselves nuts, or we're not gonna get it done and put it out there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don's asking in the chat. I'm wondering about social media use.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a personal page and don't use it for business, but been been
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): told. It's what it's for. and I'm starting to form a group that have been inconsistent with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't mark it on yours. What's your practice or advice? So for everybody. This is a personal question. I always get asked this question, you know, should I be using my personal page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on social media? And it's the answer is just unique to each of us. II need the decision.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even though I have friends and family that are connected to me on my personal page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm I for me. I use it for business. And that works for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I do have some family and friends that never like or comment, or I don't know. Maybe they they've put that they don't even want to see my stuff. I'm not sure but I'm okay with that. The important people I connect with in real life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I also know other people that just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): don't feel comfortable doing that at all. And so they either have a separate page, or they use a business page. The reason why I decided to do it on my personal page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to market on my personal page is because social media is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): personal. Right? That's that's what it thrives on is like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): being personal and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So anyway, that's why I made that decision. If you're gonna do like for Facebook, a business page. My recommendation is to make it seem as personal as much as if it's your personal page as possible versus seeming very business. See?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. ideally, we would spend a whole day on bridge. but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna move on from there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we'll have time for QA. At the end also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I wanna just point out a couple of other elements to consider, including in your sales pages.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So Dava earlier
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): asked about testimonials
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I highly recommend, including testimonials on your sales page. It doesn't have to be a lot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I recommend including some. Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you are first starting out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you don't have testimonials from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some, you know. Maybe it's a new program, and you don't have a testimonial from anyone who's gone through the program before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's okay. Use other testimonials from other courses or other clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you don't yet have any testimonials.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people that you know to write about you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you know, what they love about you, what is important to them about you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or do a session with them and ask them for a testimonial
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Social proof
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is just so valuable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So. And then, you know, you can put all the testimonials in one place. You can scatter them throughout. Whatever makes the most sense for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts or questions on testimonials.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so we've spoken a bit already in life changing. Yeah, Ray, did you have a question.
Rai Jordan: Actually, I had sorry my lights went out.
Rai Jordan: not my up lights, but you know the one there my ring lights. I wanted to just mention if it's helpful to people that one way that I've gotten testimonials, and I did it yesterday because it was the last part of our visioning circle is that? Asked people in the session
Rai Jordan: after we did that you know what is your greatest. Take away if they would be willing to share the impact that the circle has had on them.
Rai Jordan: And then I said, with your permission, I'll transcribe what you said. Send it to you to see if it resonates, and then I'll use it as a testimonial.
Rai Jordan: And they were so happy to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. Thank you for for adding that in it's such a great way. And and another great way to get testimonial similar to what Ray just said is at the end of a call put into the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you taking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): away? You can get a screenshot of the chat, cross out. The person's a either ask for permission to use their name.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If there's very personal things you're gonna want to ask for permission, regardless of with your zoom. If it's more like, General, you can blot out the name and share that, or if someone posted on social media. Oh, my gosh, Joanna, that was just such a great class! And I learned this this and that, you can get a screenshot of that.
Rai Jordan: And I just wanna say I do that because I found that if I ask you for testimonial. They like totally freeze up right? They wanna say the right thing. And so just allowing it to come organically from them has really been powerful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And Kate is putting in the chat some tips on testimonials.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know we could do. Spend a lot of time, what? And thank you, Kate. What I'll just say is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll if you, if you're asking for a more formal testimonial similar to what Ray is talking about or just capturing the screenshot or the takeaway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The more specific you can be in what you ask.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more productive of a testimonial you're gonna get. So wait. If you just ask for like, can you write a testimonial for me?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You may not get the material that you need that is, gonna be effective for somebody else who doesn't know your work to read and be like. Oh, my gosh, that was amazing!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate is suggesting, and that's one really great way to do it to talk about. Where were you when you started? Where were you when you ended?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I find is the II often use those questions. If I'm giving sending a request to a lot of people? As a third question I'll ask, there is, you know, what did you love most about the course. And what would you want people to know about me?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even better testimonials come is when you can ask individual people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you say, would you be willing to share about that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the X is a specific win that they had when you were working together? Big shift transformation. Aha, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And look to make that specific request.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. What I wanna take a look at for a little bit is resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we've talked a lot about resistance since we started life changing courses. We all understand. Resistance happens. We want to be addressing it in different ways in our curriculum and in our facilitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, I guess what resistance happens when people are considering to buy your course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, even if they're really, really, really aligned and meant to buy your course an ideal, and it's like, Oh, my gosh! Perfect fit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oftentimes E, even when their heart is telling them so much of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they're also having their doubts great. They're also in resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for all the same reasons that we learned someone would be in resistance once they're in your course, right? Because when we're about to step into the process of growth and change and going after what we really want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we really really want it. And also there's fear that comes up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): specifically when someone is considering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): buying your course. some of the fears are gonna be. will this actually work for me?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, hopefully, through the activating of the gap and the vision and laying out the bridge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they'll be able to see that it will work for them right. But they still might be like, is this gonna work for me? Right? We're not gonna invest in something that we don't believe is gonna work for us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): specific, another resistance when people are considering buying something. am I going to have the time for this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this the right timing?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes? A resistance is with courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Am I going to get lost
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the sea of people in this course?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? I know that I need to be seen in order to show up. How is that going to happen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for me?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then for each one of our courses, for our ideal client, and the course there's there might be other upfront resistances there. So, for example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One thing that's gonna come up in people's minds is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): am I too advanced for this right is this, gonna be all beginners? And I already know a lot. And so right? And then I also know for the newer people whether resistances. Is this too advanced for me? Am I? Gonna feel like a dummy and not be prepared right? So whatever the resistance is that you know right now, if it's a totally new course, you
might not know, you can just guess into some of it, although I can tell you for sure. Will this work for me. Do I have enough time?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, questions about investment will always be resistances, and you know, and then you can kinda guess into the personal ones.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you know your ideal client really? Well. you probably already know some of the more unique ones to you. But whatever they are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you wanna address them on the sales page somewhere, right? Because the more that, as we've already learned in curriculum, same goes for marketing, the more that we can preemptively address
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The more light the more of a chance we are for someone to not step out right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whether it's the course, once they're in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to now, or whether it's out of considering stepping in. Does that make sense as a general concept?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the I think, the the easiest and most efficient way in a sales page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to address resistance isn't the Q. And a section that that is how I use
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the Q. And a section on a sales page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that I ask the question like, what is the exact resistance that is going on in my prospects? Head? That is the question that I ask.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then I give the answer to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let me show you some examples of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where's the Q&A. Here we go. So this is for life changing courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm a seasoned facilitator and have already existing programs and curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Will this training help me? Right? I know that that might be a sticking point for some people considering. And then I answer it right? Yes, if you're already clear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): find your thought leadership and have created programs that work. Well, right? So I just I give the answer to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is a Biggie. Will the right because a big thing of resistance? Will the live trainings be recorded because a big thing that can snag some people is. But I can't make all the dates.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, if you know that people need to be present
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, live for every single session, or else it's not gonna work for them. Obviously, you're not going to speak to that resistance. You're gonna say you need to be live right. But if it's okay for people to catch up on the recordings, I highly recommend, including this question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I do it in this warm way where PE? So that people feel okay, if they can't make it all live. So even if you can't make some calls, live you will. Oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): grammar, mistake here. Right you will be receive it should be. You will receive all the content you need to create a curriculum that's deep and powerful, and also to assure people you can ask me questions in our Facebook group at any time. Right? So even if you can't ask me, live.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm here for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How much time will I need to devote each week? This is specifically on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the timing piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me see if I can show another example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is for navigating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): client resistance, so I still have the participate live. Here's one I know can be resistance for my people. I'm not a coach. I'm a therapist. Yoga instructor acupuncture. Right? Is this for me?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important? What is clicking for you on this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What questions do you have on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jen Gens: I just wanted to share that
Jen Gens: even though I didn't read your whole sales page before. I just like jumped in because of referrals. I did read this section. This was the one section I did read.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I always read the Q. And a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): data.
Deva Munay: It reminds me of your quote an ounce of preframe is worth a pound of reframe, that you kind of lay it all out there, that you kind of
Deva Munay: nip the problems in the bud, that if people are wondering, and
Deva Munay: so that you get them to a call with Caitlin or Imbal, or however you do it, but that it kind of lays it out initially, so that you don't have to do all of that Q&A.
Deva Munay: And can help absolutely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely. And it's it's it is again, so that it softens the resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll also share, you know, sometimes in my emails leading people to a sales page or leading people to have a conversation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about a program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I will devote a whole email to speaking to a resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll get into
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like deep detail if I know there's like one big resistance. I'll I'll really go deep on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Other times in marketing emails. it'll be like queue, you know, questions and answers about sacred deaths, and then literally, I'll like it'll be all the queues and a's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to address it. So I addressed it on the sales page. I address it in emails. I'm really just like when I'm putting together a course, I'm always thinking about resistance. I'm always thinking about it in marketing as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily's
Annelise Pesa: first of all, John, I think. putting the the preframing. It's very comforting because someone
Annelise Pesa: it's it just feels safe. You already are creating the safety there. but also with my lawyers hat. I think it's also legally important, because you can induce someone in error if you don't specify these things like someone comes and say, Oh, but I thought
Annelise Pesa: that you know this was good for like advanced debt, for example, for new coaches, and you didn't specify that I mean, there could be, and I don't wanna scare people. But there could be some legal responsibility there. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, that's such an interesting point. I always think of the legal piece in the contract, but it doesn't help, you know, on the sales page with specifics, some specifics as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Good. Kelly is asking in the chat, Do you have a price point threshold for determining whether to have discovery calls or not?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's such a good question. So you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I first started in business many, many, many years ago, my first new business coach said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Never share prices. Always just get people on a call so that you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): navigate resistance first and like, have that personal, you know, and all of that. And that's what I did forever.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But over the years what I really came to see. And I am like this, too, is that people really, most people want to know what the price is upfront.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so now, no matter how expensive it is, I share the price. Upfront.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And yes, it will turn some people away before I have the opportunity to have the one on one with them to talk through the resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I don't know for me and my business. That's that's just the decision that I made. I don't do it for privates. There's nowhere on my website that's listed my private rates. But that's also in big part, because I tailor them so much to each individual that there, there's a range on the price.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Josie saying, if I have to get on a call, I just don't do it right? So some people they just they don't want to get on a call. They just want to know the price. And they're gonna buy or not buy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paul is saying, I'll no longer consider things with no price. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly is asking, do you always make yourself available for the call, though I mean, I try not to, if it's like I don't know 500 and under 300 and under. But certainly I now more. My team, have hopped on the phone, even for something lower.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you have the resources, you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen is asking, do you speak to financial resistance in the Q. And a. It's such a good question. You absolutely can. So I have. I can't think of where I have it on a sales page, but I know I do. I know I've done the cover the question before of like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, this is a lot of money. How do I decide if the investment is worthwhile for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So we wanna just normalize the other thing that the QA. Does is it normalizes the concerns right? And like we've learned with resistance wherever it is, the more that we can normalize the resistance, the more there's an opening to work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the resistance. Right? So then, in the answer to that question, I'll say, Yeah, this is a chunk of change, and some of you may have heard me say this when I make my pitches or calls to action. If it's a extensive program after I say the rate, I always say this is a chunk of change, or this is a big investment. Right? II just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it it is for some people. And that doesn't mean that they're not gonna buy. That doesn't mean that they can't make the investment. But I wanna normalize that right? There's a lot out there that's just like doesn't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, that's not a lot, you know. Whatever it is, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna normalize that. So on the sales page, it's like, Yeah, it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there I like to go to, you know to say something about it like for some people, it's just not going to be possible and aligned.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but for others it's about knowing if this is the right decision for you. Does it make sense to make this investment? And then I might give some pointers on who this is for right who this can really work for. But I'll no matter what I'll encourage people to get on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the phone with me or somebody on the team.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might be on mute if you're talking right. Yes, sir, I have a question around like the timing of things. There's
Cecilia Kremer: been a lot of different information that I've been looking at like when you put the sales page out there.
Cecilia Kremer: do you kind of launch it when you offer a master class? Do you do it beforehand, and just
Cecilia Kremer: leave it there and just I don't know. Advertise it for your like Newsletter subscribers and then open to the public.
Cecilia Kremer: I don't know if we're going to be looking at that like that journey of warming people up. And what is available. At what time?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it's such a good question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we could do a whole 2 days just on that. But I'll give a couple of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ideas now at the end, you can ask more, and also throughout the program. And then again, I want to remind everybody. On February fifth I added another bonus for everyone on preview teleclasses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll try to work in a little bit there also some more of these bigger questions, but for for now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hate to say, this is the answer. But the answer is it just? It depends. Right? So I have my sacred depth page up on my website here. All the time I have advanced depth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even though they have specific launches during the year. You know I have that up all the time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some shorter courses like life changing courses, or some of my 4 or 6 week courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we all. we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're not just like easy access year round. They're actually not even fully attached to the website. And I'm more via email sending people to them via preview class.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So before I do a preview class like, if I know a preview class is on January first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna make sure the sales page is ready on January first, because I'm gonna be sharing about it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, there's so many I don't wanna confuse. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a shorter course. Let's say something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 8.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. 8 weeks and shorter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I will not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): mention the course. First
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I will spend a lot of the marketing real estate in the beginning, getting people into the preview class
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trying to get as many people into the preview from there and then at the preview is where I like. Formally unveil. This is open, you know, for. And then I'll start sending emails to the preview call folks as well as to everybody else in my email community and on social media about the course itself.
Cecilia Kremer: And then how long before do you do your previews? In that case
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it depends on how long the actual courses? Right? So if the course is 8 weeks or less, then I'll do the preview 2 or 3 weeks before, because people don't need to put a lot of time aside.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it's something like sacred deaths, which is a long course, I'll try to get the preview more like a month.
5 weeks before
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one, because it's a lot to plan on. And number 2, because I know a lot of people are still gonna want to have conversations after the preview, and I want enough time between the preview and the start of the course, to to schedule conversations, to to pull
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a bigger investment course and a longer course. Over the last year and a half I started doing something a little bit different which has been really effective.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before month or 2 before the preview.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I'm I'm I'm having longer and longer marketing runways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on my bigger programs, meaning, I'm starting to let people know about them more and more advanced, just because there's so much out there. There's so much noise out there for people's nervous systems. Sometimes they need more time. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before sacred death.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I did this with life changing courses, too, like 3 months before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For a whole month I had a very, very special early early rate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I just. I sent a lot of information out about. A lot of people came in that early on during that early early period, but a lot of people that got that ended up at the 3 day. And then, you know, people came from different ways. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, it's it's it's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just marketing is changing because of everything. And so the longer runway
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for longer programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don is asking, is your preview like a master class? Yeah, it's a, you know. Again in February we'll talk more about previews. But it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's kind of a taste of the bigger program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, let me ask this question for everybody. Aside from the biggies that we spoke about in terms of resistance money timing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, are things recorded? What is one kind of resistance that you sense. you know, beyond those for your ideal client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's going to be important for you to speak to on the sales page. So, for example, like for me, a seasoned practitioner versus an experienced practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin is saying, fear of being doing deep emotional work, beautiful. So you might want to have address that right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else share in the chat cause? These are. It's just great brainstorming. Yep, the wanting to go deep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't have the time for this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The hiding yeah. So I get, you know, getting lost
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): difficulty level. fear of looking at blind spots beautiful. So I really want to encourage you to address those pieces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the sales page. You don't have to go on and on about it like I showed you a question and a short answer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but speak to it, and then, if you are offering com, if it's a big resistance, like a fear of going deep. Offer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it a call with you right, and offer that call more than once on the sales page. That's fine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Rai Jordan: Can you
Rai Jordan: give an an example or another example as relates to fear of going deep?
Rai Jordan: I'm I'm feeling quite intimidated about
Rai Jordan: putting that into words. And yet I know that that's a real fear that people will have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So what would you want someone to know? Right? If someone said to you, Ray.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This program looks amazing, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm kind of scared of what I'm going to find. What is it that you would want them to know about that and about the course.
Rai Jordan: It's it's just top of head that we're offering a safe space
Rai Jordan: to do that kind of work
Rai Jordan: that you're not alone.
Rai Jordan: and that fear. That's great.
Rai Jordan: Yeah. And maybe also
Rai Jordan: that
Rai Jordan: When we are saying yes to the next level of ourselves. that fear is a natural part of the process. and that
Rai Jordan: there's something powerful that happens when we in the container that we've, you know, designed for doing deep blue, transformative work and
Rai Jordan: using the word, hold your hand might not be the exact right word, or something that conveys that you know I'll be with you, and your fellow visionist will be with you every step of the way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. So for your ideal client, you have it on the recording, you know. Condense it a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That is exactly how you would address that.
Rai Jordan: Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome, right? So we always want to speak from our heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about the resistance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to our prospects
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask. What is it that I want would want somebody to know about this concern.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Dawn? I don't. I know you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might not be able to ask voice to voice today because you told me you're a little like in and out, but I just want to make sure I'm
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna not just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk in general about people that share financial resources. But I just want to know specifically. are you talking about? How do you address it on the website. Or if you can ask the question, voice to voice that would be helpful.
Thank you.
Dawn Urquhart: And
Dawn Urquhart: I'm somewhere loud. So hopefully, this is okay.
Dawn Urquhart: I often have people who are scared about the investment, and they say that they have to talk to someone that they share finances with. Sometimes I'm not sure if that's accurate or not, if that's just the fear of the resistance coming up. And sometimes I know that to be true.
Dawn Urquhart: and I don't know if I should address that sometimes it's an email, sometimes it's voice to voice
Dawn Urquhart: and how to address that, I guess on the sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, got it. So I always
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for resistances. I always say that that's the doozy one, right? The the like. You can talk through some, you know, if someone just says it's a money thing without a financial partner. If the person is meant to do the program, you can talk through that. You can talk talk through time. You could talk talk through timing the doozy one is, I don't know if my partner is gonna be on board with this, and we make our financial decisions together. It's it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is talk throughable in many cases. But it's definitely harder. I've never addressed that on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a sales page itself. It's come up in sales conversations.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but absolutely like, if you know that that is common for your person. E, address it on the sales page as well, right? So if you're gonna do it in the QA. Form like we've been looking at, you know, the question might sound something like, I really wanna do this program. But I make financial decisions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with my partner, somebody else in my household.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's next? Right? Or how do I move forward then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then you know what I would ask you, Don, is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do you often? How do you often talk to people when that comes up one on one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you able to answer?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe not. Oh, there you are!
Dawn Urquhart: Well, I
Dawn Urquhart: I usually
Dawn Urquhart: make sure that they actually, you know, have the resources like that. Their basic needs are being met. But this is not really gonna put them out
Dawn Urquhart: and then talk to them about
Dawn Urquhart: the support they have within that relationship which is usually tricky.
Sometimes there's support, and sometimes there's not.
Dawn Urquhart: And that usually feels like what it's like a much bigger.
Dawn Urquhart: It's actually some of the work that I dive into once they're working with me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly, usually with the partner thing. It's also like what they're gonna be learn whether it's a boundaries thing or a valuing self, or needing to. You know the the power of being more standing up for your needs in a relation. It's usually part of the work that we're also doing with our clients. So you might say, I understand that, you know, on the it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little harder on the website. But you might say, you know, that this question comes up frequently when people are considering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this course or working with me, the best thing is for the best. Next step is for us to hop on a call together, so we can look more at your situation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and see if there are a aligned ways to bring this to your partner for consideration. Or you know, however, you want to say it.
Dawn Urquhart: Okay, yeah, I love that. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm just looking at the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kelly's saying, you often get the comment as well. And you're remembering multiple private clients recently say that their spouses are really supporting them and continuing the work together because they see the difference. It's making us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney is saying in B 2 B marketing sales processes I've experienced as a potential client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've received one sheet type resources framed as convince your boss. This is a good investment. I love that. Yes, maybe there's a way to create something like that. I love that idea is so. We don't all need to do this. Let me be clear. But if you have that frequently come up for prospects. That might be something to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie. It's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): February fifth from 2 to 4 PM. For the the preview teleclass training.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's still just a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of new content that I want us to take a look at today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So before we do cause I know we're moving through things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pretty quickly. Let's take a moment and pause.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if it's okay to close your eyes, close your eyes, if not, keep them open and go inward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just take a moment to open up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have to think this. This isn't a thinking thing to just let
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever wants to take root so far from today. Take root inside of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of let it land.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, placing a hand on your heart, connect in with your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's feeling most important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so far from today?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does your heart really want? You to know what's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then. hopefully, this won't feel complicated.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want to invite you to connect in with your archetype.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember the energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your archetype.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Be with its wisdom, and it's energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask your archetype
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it wants you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about your ability to create the sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does it want you to know about you and your ability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to create your sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take one more moment, thank your heart and thank your archetype.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you want to draw anything down from that. Take a moment and jot it down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you want to share the wisdom, any of the wisdom that came through in the chat, please do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what came through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important. Annelise for Annelise trust? Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or Josie. It's all already in your heart. Just allow it to flow out through your tongue. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Kelly, you've got this. It's why you're here. Just slow down, love.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna remind us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again. back to our first day of this retreat that we have these archetypal energies at our disposal for our use
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in any moment of any day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you go out into the world and do your marketing and and all that. Write your things, and this and that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember, you can always come back to the energy that you need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It might get you through the rest of the day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It might just get you through the next 10 min in the next sentence or 2 that you write right, and then you need to come back to the energy again, right? Whatever it is, it's fine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And but I really wanna encourage all of you to remember you have access to change and shift energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whenever you need it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, are we ready to keep on going?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I save this piece for towards the end, because even though it's the shortest piece, it can sometimes feel like the trickiest.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is the very top of the sales page for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the sales letter which is essentially the title of ports. I'm terrible at titles, by the way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I like to have a subtitle that just explains in a sentence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the main promise of the core.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that you just have right up top
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for people to even be willing to continue reading if they haven't yet had a conversation with you, or heard a preview, or whatever it is right and just to keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me get to the life changing courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you that know my offerings. Well. you know you well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might not know. I will tell you that. You know I like to name. My courses, oblique thing was like secret
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into the depth. I'm very into depth, obviously, which
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love. It feels very like germane to me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I've been lucky with thing sacred depth like what does that even mean? Right like, who know even knows? But I have been lucky with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I'm bringing this up to say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I'm kind of. I always learn more about marketing every year that I go deeper into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what I'm kind of learning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that sometimes really, most of the time it's better to be as direct
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as possible. even in the course title. like, let
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it is, have less flowery and pretty language in your course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): titles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and more direct, even if it doesn't feel as like pretty. So that's why, for life changing courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I called it life changing courses versus something that's more flowery.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): navigating client resistance. Now, some people don't know what resistance means, but still very
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): straightforward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stop! This is the one. This is the one that pained me the most is the most recent thing I put together right. This is so. Not flowery or pretty, but but it's so direct.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? The name of the workshop. Stop letting your hidden business shadow block you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Period end of story.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you wanna have your title. which is, you know, pretty dirty.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I like to have a sentence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like I said, that gets to just to the heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of what the course is about. So a 4 week
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): intensive training on techniques for helping your clients through some of their toughest obstacles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Just, very clear and direct.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is the advance. And now just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): full transparency. I've been thinking about changing the name of advanced depth because it means, unless you've been through sacred death. Most of the people that come in have been through sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But unless you've been through sacred depths, and you're not even gonna really care what I'm gonna name my next thing to someone who doesn't, who's not done anything with me before this. This title doesn't mean too much to them. It is really not the best
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): course title at all right, but the subtitle here I'm very clear on the kind of like the main promise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): message of the program for highly seasoned coaches and therapists
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who want to learn your next set
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of world class trauma-informed techniques right? And do some of your own deepest interval, because some people come into it advanced depth
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the techniques for their clients. Some people are like, Yeah, I may or may not use those techniques with my clients. But I want a container to do my own default
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So it's just very clear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts. ideas. What's sparking questions.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, go ahead, Robin. I was just gonna say there was this guy don't remember his name, but he talked about. And you're just reinforcing it like what people see above the fold like of their computer, so that they know, even if it says, apply deaths. And people like what it says like exactly what it is. And I have really, I got away from it. But it's really really helpful. And I saw some really good examples that you had
Robyn Vogel: on your pages. That reminded me like that's really important to help people
continue scrolling.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely so for everyone. Wh. When Robin is saying above the fold, this is what she means.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It doesn't go for something like this, which is a Pdf.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but above the fold means, See this bottom line on the screen right when someone clicks onto your link.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are they seeing enough
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that lets them know what's happening on this page for them to even want to continue scrolling right? So you wanna get all of this above the fold, and I have sometimes sacrifice like putting the applied depth logo. So you know, if if there's a little more words here, I will take this out or make this smaller in order to get what's most important above the fold. Here's another example, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is what's above the fold here. This is the what you see when you click on the link.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, okay, yes, let's continue scrolling after that. If there is interest in this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, let's see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is Donald. Kate is Donald Miller. The person that talks about that I don't even know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, probably. Okay. Sharon is saying what you're seeing is clarity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and tuning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into true essence is the key to all of this. Yes, exactly, being direct, being clear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is, and that is. I think it's a skill that we have to learn one. It's not one that's necessarily inherent, you know. I'm working all the time on. How can I be more clear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in my marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do we wanna take 10 min and take a take a whirl and see about that subtitle sentence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): creating one. Let's do that. So let's take
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not quite 10 min. Let's take 7 min. It's just one sentence right? On that subtitle. Let's see what you come up with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you have a queue just for right now, since people are writing, if you want to put it in the chat, and I'll take a look at what you've got.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. So let's take like 15 more seconds.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Always specific. is Beth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, for example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paula, your second one is more specific.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'd go with that if you wanted to go with the first one a 12 week course to better understand old strategies that are keeping you hidden and stuck instead of in your life. Life is so general, I would say, in your relationships, in your business, you know, in your creativity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One or 2 of those.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's perfect. you, and that you don't want it to get too wordy. But I know the other important piece for your people. Josie, is for them to feel confident in their care as pet owners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I see a lot of people put in the chat. I will try during break to make comments, and I don't want anyone to feel left out for right now, though
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear ush
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, I don't know. I'd love to hear a share, not on the title you came up with, but what you're learning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you're seeing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or no, you just want. You want some comments on your subtitles. That's fine, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? Well, so then, that means, Oh, Courtney, go ahead.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): I'm just realizing that this is this is requiring me to get to, to make very, very specific decisions about who I'm speaking to. That's right, like, in a way that
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): that all of the other has been sort of like
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): have been like levels of decision making. But this is like, Okay, now, you gotta be really precise and commit to who exactly do you wanna work with, because
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): this is gonna it's so. It's such a potent like spell that's being woven in this subtitle that I have to. I have to make sure it's calling in exactly the right person.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): which is uncomfortable for me right now, because I'm like, Oh, I know who I really really wanna work with. But then are those people who have the money to pay me? And I said like should I be thinking broader? And blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely so 2 things that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a a paradox. I just wanna say, yes, exactly what you're saying. This is so that you can be specific to who you're calling in, and you want to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the other thing that lives right along with it. That's kind of the paradox is no myth of perfection, either. Right, get as close as you can, or is that as you feel comfortable with?
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): And and that is what is going to be right.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and for you and for anyone else, cause I know you're not the only one. Court me and I go there, too. Sometimes. By the way, I just wanna normalize it is, this is really for this kind of person. But what if they can't pay right? So first, I just I wanna normalize that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): concern and say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there are. Maybe there aren't a million people of that kind of person that can pay, although in the whole scheme of the world. I bet you there are even a million people of that kind of person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It just needs to be enough people for the program, and there are enough
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of those right? And then, like the the.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I think is kind of the beautiful thing is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then, as you bring more people in, you can sometimes create spaces for some scholarships as well.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Yeah. thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ray.
Rai Jordan: I really appreciate what Courtney said, because it's
Rai Jordan: reminding me of something that has been on my heart for a while, and to reclaim it, and that is the desire to niche down. And so my question for you, Joanna, is, do you have any guidance
Rai Jordan: around
Rai Jordan: when you have an event that is
Rai Jordan: open it. It isn't for a particular niche.
Rai Jordan: and the follow up offer that you're called to offer
Rai Jordan: is more niche down.
Rai Jordan: Do you have any? Do you recommend that in this they have a question at the end of the statement. Sorry I lost you in there somewhere.
Rai Jordan: It's it's not how you phrased it. I got distracted by the chat. I'm so sorry, totally focused on you. No problem. II can. So
Rai Jordan: maybe if I'm more. Oh, but maybe if I talk.
Rai Jordan: but not in generalities, but specifics. So our New Year's visioning teller retreat is open to anybody
Rai Jordan: visioning circle that the one I really want to do
Rai Jordan: is specific to people, to a specific subset of that group which most people are, but not everybody is.
Rai Jordan: And so I'm concerned about alienating people. Maybe I can say, you know, if you don't. If this, if this is not a good fit for you, we will be offering other things soon, you know that are so. I yeah, don't worry about alienating people. Number one, you speak specifically to who it's for.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, if you want at some point not right up front, but but somewhere.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So a great example is for advanced
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, that is, for specific people. Sometimes when I send an email out about advanced to my general community.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I will put as a Ps. On the bottom. If you are a new practitioner and are excited by all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've got you covered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in sacred depths
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and other programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Please reach out. We'd love to hear from you and share. And we can share that information
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with you.
Rai Jordan: Got it. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, let's take
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a short break. I'm gonna try to look at some of these subtitles during
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the break, and then we'll come back and and we'll close out the day. We'll be done at 3. So this is like a weird thing. But we'll come back at 2 12. Okay, so we'll take 8 min and we'll come back at 2 12. I'll put that in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I didn't get to everybody's I was working fast. but if I didn't get to yours as soon as we're complete.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, how should I do this so that you get it? I will
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): post in our face. I'll take the ones that I didn't get to yet. If you can't hang on after 3, I'll just post it in our Facebook group and make comments on those
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but one other thing I want to say for subtitles as well as all of marketing. This is kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm almost hesitant to say this, because I don't want to add M. More. But this is just something to keep in mind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This may happen for this sales page, or it may happen in the future.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Stuff
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the fee. Try to condense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is funny coming from me. But what I mean by that here I'll give a great example from Kalida. So Kalida's where is her?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you later. So learn to facilitate intimate sacred circles in which you, midwife soul nourishing performance, art solos
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the bio method. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even though intimate, is so like important to the work. Khalida, you're gonna have it in other places. It's not the most important thing upfront. So when I made suggestions I took out intimate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, here's where I'm gonna get even more a little Virgo with all of you. But just to consider sacred circles in which you, midwife. it's shorter to say sacred circles where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you midwife. it is a couple of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it it makes a difference right? So we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I always after I do all of my writing, I go back, and my sole intention is. how many words can I cut out of this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes it's grammatically, sometimes it's otherwise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Kelly's saying, for all the type, a grammar nerds we have to cut work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. we've got. yes, see? About 10 min for open Q&A
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so anything that you're like I need to ask you this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we're done today. And it needs to be answered today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have a few minutes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right?
Rai Jordan: I have a question about having one sales page where there's an option to be part of the group.
Rai Jordan: or for those who say, I really wanna work with you, one on one. I want the intimacy of one on one, and then there's also an option for that. I've heard people say that's not a good idea. But if I'm presenting this offer at a an event like our retreat.
Rai Jordan: it makes sense to me to have it, both on one page as opposed to having people go to 2 different pages, because essentially, the program offering is the same. It's just that
Rai Jordan: it's, you know group or one on one. And what I've done in the past is, I'll have like 2 columns, and one will have, like.
Rai Jordan: you know, the benefit of
Rai Jordan: the small group with the group, which is that you get to experience the connection. And then another one is that you have personalized space. That's just for you. So it's kind of it shows people the benefits of each, and how they contrast. I'm wondering what you think about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): needing a minimum amount of people in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that is the main reason for the launch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would really focus solely on the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the sales page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Excuse my language, or it's gonna be a clock block. Otherwise like it, it's it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I would recommend in this situation is at the preview. Speak to the group. to the group program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Talk about all right, like all the benefits. Why, it's amazing, this, that and the other thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have a sales page for the group. But if you're like, Oh, my gosh! I'm some people might slip through the cracks because they really only want one on one or the group isn't exactly right for them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the very end of your pitch on the preview. Say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're listening to all of this, and this is really exciting you. But the group you have a sense that the group isn't quite the right fit for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have other options for you. Just shoot me an email, get in touch. We can have a conversation.
Rai Jordan: Okay, that sounds good.
Rai Jordan: Would you also do that in the follow-up email, where the focus. you know, in writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe as a Ps. But because, Ray.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your situation, it's really like, let's get as many people. I have a feeling you're concerned about this, because you're like people are gonna slip away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's just that I know that there are people who, because they'll say to me, You know, I. This sounds great. Can I have this one on one like every time? Right? So you can have it, I mean, yes, put it in a Ps. And a couple of the emails
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well say it in the pitch. Mention it, but I wouldn't have it be a main thing I would really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of. For now focus. The the other thing to remember is that after the program starts you have time to do a campaign to whoever didn't sign up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for privates. If you want to do that, too.
Rai Jordan: That's a good point.
Rai Jordan: Thank you. Thank you.
Rai Jordan: I like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? We've got? 6 more minutes. What questions do you have? What do you need answered before we're done today?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yesterday, when we were talking about the program possibilities, and you said, sort of leave this other one open. So as I'm having discussions with people.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I could, you know, offer this other thing.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): are you? A? And then, after listening to multiple lots of coaching today with other people with some similar frames on things. Do you think it is better to have the sales page written for just the like 3 month, or 12 week, or 14 week, or whatever program it is, and then have the longer thing available? Or is it
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): better to have the longer thing available, and then let people know there's a shorter thing
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): available to invite them into like, if I were to sort of see themes in the discovery calls and be like maybe we should do
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): a longer one, or we should do a shorter one like, do you have a sense of which way would be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think. Tell me if I'm getting this right, Kelly, from like what we finally came to at the end of the day yesterday. Your nervous system is gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be better
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): focusing on the shorter so I would say, that's the focus on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, it's coming up pretty soon. I wouldn't put any pressure to even have anything written about something longer as it comes up in conversation with prospects. You can say, you know I have this idea for you. I'm not offering this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to everybody. It's a look. It's a longer experience. It's especially for people who this, that? Or the other thing. Is that something that interests you? Would you like me to send you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some information on it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And if they say, yes, then say, Okay, you know it'll be, you know I'm still getting the writing together. But you know by next week
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll get that to you, or something like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I would. I'd focus on what's gonna make your nervous system happiest.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay, thank you. And II guess just for clarity. I'm I'm inviting them into this plus a longer thing, or is it right that they would continue on with? And it continues on so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And if they, if they know they're in for the 3 months. But you have a sense like you can say great and like, get the deposit, and then say, you know. By the way, I'm not letting everybody know about this yet. But there is this. Do you want me to send you the information?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay, great. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're welcome data.
Deva Munay: Yeah, I kinda have a 2 part question. You know, most of my people know that I'm working with alchemy, crystal singing bulls. And so I'm curious if that needs to be in the title. And then I'm also
Deva Munay: kind of you know. I think I've shared before moving from doing more like just teaching, consulting to more coaching. And so I feel like this, next 7 month online immersion is shifting that
Deva Munay: maybe it's not as important. The focus on the crystal singing bowls as it is doing the inner work and the sound practices that people can do with or without having
Deva Munay: goals themselves.
Deva Munay: So I'm wondering, like in the title, if I have 7 wonders of sound. an alchemical journey to elevate your heart, calm and focus your mind and nourish your energy centers if it should be with crystal singing bowls, or
Deva Munay: if that's enough without it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your choice. I wouldn't put it upfront if you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): want it there, I'd almost put in parentheses like with singing bowls, exclamation point, or something like that on its own line.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): almost always.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The modality
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is not as important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as the result.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you can at some point right, and we can call a singing roll of modality like Raki as a modality. Or you know whatever you can speak to it at some point or like, I said, you know, in that way, but I just wouldn't put it upfront, unless the exception to that rule is, you know why your people are coming is because of the same goals.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in which case then, you would put it up front.
Deva Munay: Okay.
Deva Munay: okay, that's helpful. And then I think I may have kind of touched on this before. In using the term chakras, which is more specific to, you know Hindu and Eastern philosophy versus energy centers, which is a larger kind of world
Deva Munay: traditions that
Deva Munay: the Mayan, the, you know, many Egyptians have energy centers that they're working with so just generalizing it. More does that, or but I know you're also saying, Be specific.
Deva Munay: so just curious your thought on that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on in terms of which to use.
Deva Munay: Yeah, using chakras or using energy centers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So there's a couple of pieces on that. I think one is, it's in terms of what to use. I think it's a preference in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what your people are going to feel called to. You know what they know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you use something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the and this is just my feeling. So not truth with a capital T, but something to consider. If you choose to use Chakra because it is, or any term that is like specific
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to one culture that is not yours. And in order to not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): appro cultural in order to not appropriate at some point, II would honor the tradition
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that the idea and the concept comes from.
Deva Munay: Okay. Great, thank you.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But any any time there's a question of should I use this word or this word? Whatever it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the way to answer, it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, what's most resonant for my people like, what do they know and and what what is resonates for them? More?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just want to check my notes for a second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Obviously we could do a whole year on marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we'll continue to talk about marketing, you know, as we move through life changing courses. I'm always open for questions that you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on it. But the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the one last piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanted to just mention about marketing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in general, and then also it applies to sales. Page specifically. is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am a really big fan
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of sharing my values in my marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Many of you have heard me say this before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My ideal client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has the same or similar values that I do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): same goals for each of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without getting too like into the weeds.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think also, there's a difference between what your values are in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, for whatever your course is about, whatever that content and subject matter is about, what are, what are the values that are most important to you, you know, within the content. That's really what you want to be speaking to. And so this is just to say, to put a plug in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to sharing the values.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): both as a part of messaging
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well as a part of people. Then get to know you more that more people get to know you and what you're about. the more they're they're gonna buy if it's right for them. And also so they feel seen and heard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it and this doesn't have to be a big. You don't need to have a section on values on your sales page I on my main website, I have a whole page devoted to my values. You don't have to do that, either. But on a sales page
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's gonna be something. It can be something as simple as so, for example, from my stuff like, I know that you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a practitioner, ethics are really important to you, and depth is really important to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's values right there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just to be thinking about that as you do your writing? What are the values that are really important to you? And how
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can you express them?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we've done a lot in the last 2 and a half days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As I said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the intention isn't to walk out of here with a perfect done sales page, but to understand the different sections.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to have a process for being able to get those sections done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My hope is also that along the way, not only did you learn
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about some important marketing pieces, but it helped you clarify some more things around your program as well as maybe giving you some inspiration and a new architle or an old
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): archetypal energy that you're coming back to to draw inspiration from.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wanna. Give us a few minutes right now, as we learn in life, changing courses, integrating at the end is really important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I wanna spend the rest of our time on some integration. I'm gonna wanna give us right now a few minutes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I want to invite you to write down takeaways from these 2 and a half days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if it's helpful to do columns, if you like to have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): categories like I do, you can have some things you're taking away personally and for your programs some things you're taking away marketing wise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or if you want it, just to be on one long list whatever works best for you. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): give yourself the gift of taking some time right now and writing down big things, little things, inner things, outer things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are some of the things that you're taking away from these 2 and a half days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me give you a few minutes for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as you all do that I'm gonna try to work through some of the subtitles. See if I can get those done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Keep on going. There's more takeaways. See? What else is there? Nothing is too big, nothing is too small.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Inner outer. What are you taking away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Keep on going. You've got about 2 more minutes. See? What else is there? What can you mine? What are the important? Haz
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things that you're learning things that you're taking for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney. I'm sorry I didn't see in the chat the it was about. Take aways. So what are all of your takeaways? Got it? That was my assumption. I was just afraid I missed something specific. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Take one more minute.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Also. I think I got at least a first pass on everybody that shared
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your subtitles in the chat. If, for whatever reason I missed it just because of the chat format. I didn't mean to, so let me know and just repost it in the chat, so that I can see it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm gonna ask one and one other question for all of you to add on to your takeaways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is, what are your next steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might just want to list out your one next step, if that's what's best for you. In other words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work on the gap part of your sales, page, or you might want to lay out your 3 next steps. Maybe it's like it's just go to your calendar and create time for this. I saw Robin put in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): An invite for Co. Working right? So take a minute or 2 with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are your specific concrete next steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that these 2 and a half days have inspired you towards.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hey, Christine, I'm glad you're back. You're catching us for the last 20 min. We're looking at takeaways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So first of all, it was a question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the chat. But I'll share with everyone as a reminder.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm leaving town tomorrow morning. If you send me anything this afternoon I'm not gonna let you to look at it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I'll be back afternoon years and I will get to anything you send me. Don't hold off on sending it to me. Send it to me, whatever you know you want me to take a look at, and then, when I'm back after the New Year, I will get to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would some of you have started sharing in the chat. I'd love to hear voice to voice, and even if you don't, you haven't been sharing, I want to say I'd love to hear from as many of you as possible a minute.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and under voice to voice what one of your biggest takeaways are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So please raise your hand. Don't be shy. What are you taking away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for getting us started? Raquel.
Rochel Keller: I'm taking away how overwhelmed I am, but focused.
Rochel Keller: and at least I know where I'm going. Before I started this course I had no idea what I was doing. None. I no idea at all. And now there's a blueprint, at least of what it goes here, and what goes there, and what goes there. and all your fantastic examples, and such a great support group here.
Rochel Keller: and from what I understand, I hope my next steps are going to be while you're on vacation. I'm going to be rewriting this whole thing all over again, so hopefully, I'll be able to send you something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that sounds great. And step by staff.
Rochel Keller: I hope so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And I'll just say for everyone to be clear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): included in life changing courses. I said, as much feedback on your curriculum. It is a lot for me to look at everybody's sales pages. Also. This is a bonus.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you send it to me, I promise you I will look at it, but I'm just only going to probably make light
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feedback on the sales page itself, or else I'd have to take 3 weeks off work. Yes.
Christine Walsh: Christine. Well, that makes sense.
Christine Walsh: So so much to come away with, because, as I'm stilling the information for my kind of coach, the coach program
Christine Walsh: but one of the things that I think came away from me big time, and I missed yesterday. So I will. I want to go through that because I it was chock full yesterday of appointments. But is
Christine Walsh: that the sales page will help me inform some more of the curriculum, you know not the full 100% of it, or anything, but just even like 50 per 60% of it. Start laying that out. So that's my my big, my big homework item, if you will. And then the other take away is just the amazing community here, and listening in, and all the shares and all of the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): different points of view to bring to this. So just thank you to everyone as I've been listening in and being part of some of the breakout rooms and stuff like that. So it's been really cool to be part of this to the extent I was. So. Yeah, it really is such an amazing community with so much wisdom. And yes, absolutely. I kind of promise that the sales page helps inform even more what's happening with your person program?
Christine Walsh: Good. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. Robin.
Robyn Bragg: Yeah. So I came in with,
Robyn Bragg: I guess, feeling mad at myself, that I hadn't done much. Up to this point, I've been kind of distracted, and let myself stay distracted and confused, and so coming out of this, I feel like I have a lot more
Robyn Bragg: confidence that I actually like. Do you know who I'm talking to and like I do know what I want to do with them. And I'm coming away with this interesting
Robyn Bragg: idea to treat my program as like a self esteem based program, and I didn't have that at all coming into this that came out of one of the breakout rooms. And I'm very appreciative of that cause that helps me to like, put
Robyn Bragg: like, put some direction to it, or put some like it just feels like it's gonna help me get going as I go back through and re-watch the classes and start writing something to actually turn into you and get some feedback on. So I'm just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really great, for I got a lot out of this, and I was scared, and I almost didn't show up. And I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad you did, too, and I saw that self esteem in in your title and subtitles. Yeah, that's really cool. I love that as a as a direction. So I'm so glad that came through.
Robyn Bragg: He's a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Annelise
Annelise Pesa: I love, loved, loved, loved it, Joanna, I think.
Annelise Pesa: it just gave me I had, you know, although I had a little bit of a panic yesterday, but realized panic, for what is. I have a sales letter, and I just have to expand my curriculum, and I just love the energy. You know the archaeo type energy which I can connect to all the time love the group. I think I don't know how you
Annelise Pesa: have the capacity to have all this amazing
Annelise Pesa: people, you know, women and men that come to your courses. Just incredible, just, unbelievable. So it's the energy of the group that, in addition to your energy it's just wonderful, and I just feel a little bit scared but excited, and I know
Annelise Pesa: I probably would have left the the sales letter the way it has been for few months if it wasn't for this course. So I'm so glad I'm I've joined.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so so glad to. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and already in in a bunch of the shares and takeaways, so many of you are talking about the community right? And I'm just pulling that just again. Facilitator point of view to remind all of us. It's never just about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): O, our as practitioners relationship with each person in the group. It is about the group itself and the and the relationship of the community.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Happy?
Cathy Norris: Yes, for me the biggest takeaway is how the hero's journey drives
Cathy Norris: everything. I have just deliver in a 5 week course, and I have
Cathy Norris: results from that. And I had drafted my heroes journey, for you know, like the shorter version, longer version and now I'm comparing my the results I got, I kinda had a little bit of different, like, obviously the deeper version is, gonna have a deeper heroes journey and just kind of putting that together. And I hadn't written my sales page yet, even for my 5 week course which I'm launching again. End of January. So I actually am planning to do that.
Cathy Norris: And this afternoon I have 3 and a half hours scheduled to work on that.
Cathy Norris: That it's the zeroes journey again is helping me connect all the dots with all the pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad. Yeah. It really is a lot of a mirror with the hero's journey in the curriculum with the sales. Page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, M.
Kelly Melear-Hough: So my biggest takeaway is that II feel like I now have a process for creating a sales page that I didn't have before. and I also feel confident that I can do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay, I'm so glad. Yes, this is a washrooms. Repeat process now you have it for any sales page that you ever do, or sales letter one on one, and I'm so glad you're feeling confident that you can do it.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yeah. And I have I've gotten up a lot a lot more takeaways from this whole process. It's it's really been helpful. So thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so so glad, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Yes, I'm definitely feeling much less overwhelmed than I was when I began. I was really, I think, scared of tapping into like
Cecilia Kremer: selling. You know, something that I have a little resistance. Resistance to, and
Cecilia Kremer: just weaving with the journey, and seeing how everything integrates, and having your examples, because I can really spin in my mind in like creating and ruminating and thoughts. So that was really helpful
Cecilia Kremer: for me to have something that okay, I can come back to look at this example. Okay, this is something like this that I want to do. And and, you know, kinda just come back to the writing. So so I'm really thankful for this and for the community for everything that everyone has shared. It's so good if you're not alone
Cecilia Kremer: in the journey.
Cecilia Kremer: And I think next for me is just to keep on writing, just committing to. I also want to appreciate finally, the time for us to do the writing here.
Cecilia Kremer: This was really important for me to get
Cecilia Kremer: you know, to step out of inertia and being frozen. So thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're so so welcome. And I wanna pull that out as a facilitator, or, you know. Course piece. Also, I'm just always looking for the the Meta things I mean. Obviously, in an ideal world we would have time to write the whole thing right, but that can't always happen logistically, whether whatever anyone is teaching, whether it's writing or meditation, or yoga, or right, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some kind of get it done time to do the initial practice so that people can see. Oh, I can do this. I'm starting to make a body memory of what it's like to do. This thing is just. It's so so helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ray
Rai Jordan: I no longer feel overwhelmed.
Rai Jordan: Don't talk block.
Rai Jordan: Thank you for that. That I have an archetype
Rai Jordan: that can guide me every step of the way, and how it has powerfully helped me reclaim parts of myself that I had dismissed and denied. A new approach to marketing, where I'm less general and more descriptive.
Rai Jordan: and to realize that my ideal
Rai Jordan: clients participant is not in my head. They don't know what I know, and so be able to put it on paper. And then also how to use the FAQ. To inform resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, to all of that. And I really wanna underscore for all of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Our ideal client isn't in our head. They have not connected the dots
that we so quickly connect right? And we learnt this for curriculum and the same goals for marketing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jen Gens: I'm really celebrating how my nervous system feels right now. I've done a lot of marketing trainings and this and that, and
Jen Gens: what I'm gaining from this is my action. Steps was just to write about my program, and why these pieces really
Jen Gens: matter to me in what I'm teaching and
Jen Gens: how it's formulating.
Jen Gens: and even just that the the word that keeps coming through is space create more space in the program for integration. But also it's giving me this relaxed feeling. And in that relaxed feeling I don't feel like I need to push it away to like I need space from this cause. I'm so anxious. And II need 3 months. I'm actually like.
Jen Gens: oh, oh, this is good like. It makes me more excited to get to work, to get to play with it.
Jen Gens: Which I love. Is he?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that so much. I and I feel like this is just for all of us. I wanna pull on what Jen is saying
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we don't make space like, create spaciousness in our processes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then it makes us want to create space from our process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the more that we can create space within our processes, then we can be in it versus divorcing ourselves from it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Darlene.
Darlene Frank: Here we go. I lost a picture of myself for a second. I really loved the breakout rooms. It was so. It was a pleasure to meet people, and
Darlene Frank: I just valued that experience. Those 6 people I think I met
Darlene Frank: writing from the archetype is really the standout for me. I wrote something
Darlene Frank: that's so unlike anything. Any other piece of marketing piece by Britain. I don't even know what to do with it. But it was just a profound experience for me, and I loved also the specificity
Darlene Frank: needs in marketing like marketing language, a way to break down the elements of a sales page. So I can write each one in chunks rather than try to
Darlene Frank: just be intimidated by the whole thing.
Darlene Frank: the value of even of even having a sales page on my website instead of using a Pdf, which is what I do for my long? I have a 12 month program I just use send out a Pdf that describes it.
Darlene Frank: and perhaps I should not require a phone conversation
Darlene Frank: with people who want to sign up for my shorter program, which is a 6 session program. I think maybe some people don't respond on my web page because
Darlene Frank: someone I think it was Dr. Jose said. If it asks for a call I won't respond. So
Darlene Frank: And just integrating the importance of the gap of activating the gap and division that was really critical.
Darlene Frank: and I would also like to use this group sharing and take away at the end of my short program.
Darlene Frank: I think, allowing this time just kind of like confirms
Darlene Frank: the takeaways, and it gives people a focus back on the reason why they came in the first place. So thank you so much. I could go for 3 more days on marketing. I know, I know one day. But that'll be another program beautiful. And I caught the tail end of some of your writing, and my sense is there's a place for it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on your sales page. It was really powerful, Darlene. So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): yeah, I just, I'm really so grateful for
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): the complete
shift I'm feeling in myself in terms of like the energetics of how I'm relating to the idea of
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): a sales page at all. I've done a lot of marketing.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): of other people's
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): offerings and other people's products, and other people like, etc., etc. And I
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): I'm so jaded about it, and I'm so resentful that, as a as the person on the receiving end. I often am just like.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): don't make me read this like if you're just trying to manipulate me like even even yours, which I know is not what you're trying to do at all. It's just this knee jerk, sort of reaction that I have of like God. Just get to the point and tell me how much it's gonna cost. So I can make the decision. Don't mess with my head. And
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): but now I feel like I have this holistic understanding of the
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): the structure and the journey, and I understand what each piece
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): like, what the intention of of each section is. So that gives me this sense of like, oh.
oh.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): it's not just like.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): keep them scrolling until they've got enough fatigue to just say yes already. It's like, Oh, you're actually taking me on a journey. And so now that I understand that I can, I can do it in a way that's in alignment with my intention and with my.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): that is right for you. Totally. Yeah. So thank you. So much for that. Yeah, you're so welcome. I'm so so happy and excited for what's gonna come.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then David, real quick, like, 20 s or less.
Deva Munay: I'm just excited today is the first day that I've worked on the 7 month program instead of these 5 day ones that I have coming up. So I'm newly inspired. Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay, well, I'm so inspired by all of you. I am so excited about the seeds that we planted over these days, and to see how they're gonna grow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and evolve
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna read when we're done. All of the everything in the chat. You know some people shared their takeaways there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and again I'm gonna be out. But then of the office. But then I'll be back after the New Year. We still have a lot of amazing work to do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in life, changing courses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for now. And so being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the work of this circle is done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but really only just begun. May you return to your ordinary lives, extraordinary humans!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May you walk with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the knowing in your heart that your work matters.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that you get to market in ways that feel right for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and your system.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Marry, meet merry part, and marry meat again. I am sending you all so much love, and hugs all around the circle
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so, and I'm wishing you, if you're taking time off. which I hope you are nourishing, restful, relaxing time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll hang out. I'm going to turn off the recording. We are officially done, but I can hang out for a couple of extra minutes. If anybody needs anything, just let me know.