Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hello, everybody
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so happy to be here with you today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some moment to get here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're already in our third week of life changing courses. I don't know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how this happened. It's all going so quick. Here in the Us. And it is a holiday week for a lot of people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So some of us might be off today. But I'm excited for those of us that are going to be here. For our class, you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you for letting me know. It's so weird. My. there's something I just made a note. There's something with the zoom for this particular for life, changing courses where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the chat is continuing always, and then I guess every time my camera isn't on for some reason, but every every other zoom I teach my camera automatically goes on. So I need to ask my team
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm really looking forward to our call today. Our call today is gonna be a little bit different from our first 2 calls which were
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): purely trading calls. Today we're going to take a little bit of a pause from a lot of new curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we're gonna use our time together today to go deeper into what we've already learned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to go deeper into what you've already been creating in terms of your hero's journey and the steps of your program, the pillars, the chapters, whatever you're you're calling them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): program creator's note on this. because I'll always kind of break down what I model.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not in every single course. I mean, I guess there's some exceptions to the rule. But I almost wanna say there's not on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You don't want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just teach new things and teach new things and teach new things and teach new things every week, or for the entire retreat, or whatever whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to have pauses for integration.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's important to have pauses for integration. Learning doesn't just happen by giving new information
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all the time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Learning happens when you take
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): new information, or even old information that you already knew, and you have the space to process it and to integrate it. Now we're doing this all the time, even in our training calls, where I'm giving a lot of new content, right? Because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am pausing. And I'm asking you to journal, or I'm pausing, and I'm asking you to share. I'm asking you what questions are coming up. We're having our get it done. Sessions, we're all of that are pauses from more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): content in order to integrate. So you don't necessarily need a class on its own, like what we're gonna have today. But I put this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in here for a couple of reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one, just to model for you what an integration class might look like for your own courses. Number 2, because of the subject matter that we are working on right, which is, requires a lot from you right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right there's a lot. III invited you to take time to do a number of drafts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your thought leadership. Steps of your methodology steps right? Your hero's journey steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and because it's a a task to put those steps or those pillars together that sometimes, takes more time, you might need some extra support with, etc. This is actually a perfect moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before giving you. Now let's move on to the next thing right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to give us some of the space to go deeper with all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what we're gonna be doing in our 90 min today is we're gonna have an opportunity, as I said, to go deeper into you developing your thought leadership and your steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am going to give you at least one, if not 2 examples to help you understand the process even more, we're gonna have opportunity, and I hope at least one of you will take me up on this to workshop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of your programs for us to take a look together at what your beginning of your journey is what your end of your hero's journey is to look at the steps that you've developed, and I will coach, you know. I'll coach you, and kind of pull some pieces from you and make some suggestions so that all of us can learn from it. We're gonna have time on the call today just to answer any questions that you have about your process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we'll see what your needs are, what the group's needs are for integration. But we might also do a little bit of inner work as well. We'll kind of just see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where that goes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before. We jumped in with all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just 2 logistics pieces. One. I want to remind you that you have a get it done day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tomorrow with Invol. I think after this. We're moving mostly to Fridays, but because of the holiday this week and some other things we had going on the team last week, we moved it to Tuesday. Such an opera. Great opportunity again to just to do get the work done right. If you know you need to be in a container with community to have that accountability to get it done, and of course, invol
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is there for you to a answer any questions as you go along. The other thing is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a number of you have been reaching out, and I've been looking at what you've put together so far. Which is amazing. III love to do that as a reminder, and you have all of the instructions again in your member center. If you want me to take a look at your work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Please put it on a Google Doc, and then make sure that I have edit access to the Google Doc. I will not edit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any of your work, I promise you I'm not gonna change anything that you've put there. What I'll do is I'll make suggestions in the sidebar. That really is the most efficient way for me to review your work and and give you feedback.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm just gonna put in the chat when you do the Google, Doc, make sure this is my email address. It's Joanna at Applied Deaf
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): institute.com. Just make sure I have edit access
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Any questions on any of that before we keep on going.
No. great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I would love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to start us off by hearing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some celebrations
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): around your curriculum development process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even if you haven't done all the things that you wanted to do yet. I know there have already been a lot of wins, inspired ideas really good work happening. And I'd love to hear from a few of you. Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: You know, I just wanna jump in really quick. I it's a this is more so. Just an observation from this course I just got out of a 3 day training with a huge company that had a lot of resources under their belt and
Nina von Feldmann: excuse my language, but it was a shit show on the back end as far as the user interface and the container, and it was so informative in light of this program and the way you hold impeccable space and teach us through
Nina von Feldmann: direct experience. II just kept it. I kept. III the class was super informative. But I just kept looking at it from that lens of like Nope, not gonna do that. Not gonna do that definitely gonna do something different. And so that is a huge win. So thank you. Yes, I'm so glad you're sharing it. First of all, that is a huge win. Right? It's like you can see so clearly what not to do. And you know that you're gonna do something else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it just it go. It speaks so much to all of the container holding and development skills that you're cultivating. And yeah, I, this is something I hear so often. It's almost like, after someone has been in the course with me, like, you can't unsee it anymore outside. And so, yeah, and this is what we're going for right? Because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): content is so important, and resources like you say, like, yes to all of that. But how? It's presented the container, the usability of the container a. All of that. The accessibility is part of being able to use the content in the most valuable ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Cathy Norris: I would just love to share my win, to feel community and celebration. I'm actually right now delivering a short 5 week
Cathy Norris: version that is not good coaching, but they're getting modules and videos and exercises, and we're having a weekly call, and I'm always sending it out on Monday morning. So I just sent out my fourth week, and next week is my fifth week. And I'm having QA. Calls
Cathy Norris: and the one in particular bit the people attending are just loving the course.
Cathy Norris: It's such a huge way. And I feel like I'm kind of all alone doing this other than my actual students. That's great feedback. But when I'm you know, I just I just wanna celebrate because Kathy and it's infectious. And I can. I can feel just what an incredible experience
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your students are having. And also what Nic incredible experience you're having. And then knowing that you're doing such good work, and I'm so so happy to hear it, and I'm happy that you're celebrating it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yay. one more celebration out there that wants to be shared that's to share. When do you want to celebrate?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Doesn't? And you know celebrations are big things, and also small things, too, right? Like a cool thing that you realized about your thought leadership or your course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Hi, Joanna! And everyone. I am celebrating that we are all doing it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah, I mean, we're such like, I'm in a room full of really brave souls that are out here
Jennifer Rose Gens: on a frontline of something new. And II think that is just something to really party down about and like dance around about. So I'm just really just grateful to be here. On a personal note. I'm just like proud of myself for dusting off the old plans and going back in, and I made my index cards. And there's like, Oh, my God, I think I actually have a year long program, not a 9 month. And so
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, just excited to like, get back on the horse. Sometimes it really is a celebration just before
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we even like get to doing it, not to say you're not just feel like I pulled up all the old notes. I have them ready to go. You know that sometimes that's the the hurdle that we need to get over.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're doing it. Yes, yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. I'll take Vlada and Deva, and then we're gonna keep on going. Vlada.
Vlada Tomova: Hi.
Vlada Tomova: I am celebrating that I've been staying flexible and you know I restarted my choir a few months ago, and October
Vlada Tomova: and there had been all these people who had been extending invitation, I mean asking me, Can we join your quiet? Can we join your choir? And it hadn't been in full work.
Vlada Tomova: and so when I finally was ready to restart it, I was expecting people to flock in, and they didn't
like wow!
Vlada Tomova: Alright! Then what what should I do so. I am celebrating that. I've been staying flexible through the process, and adjusting as it goes, and employing all of what we were just talking in a little earlier on the previous meeting, like extending personal invitations, checking in with everyone.
Vlada Tomova: being willing to make adjustments, and and things are things are falling in so for perseverance and yes, to flexibility. Right? And that's a huge celebration so nicely done.
Vlada Tomova: Thank you so much, and also celebrating that things that need more planning ahead like summer travel, singing retreat. Actually starting to going overseas. I love it. I love it, and especially because I know that historically, that's been a thing for you to create the space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): early enough. So huge celebrations all around.
Vlada Tomova: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Endeava.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Hi, I'm celebrating that. I got another course at Sln for June
Deva Munay, Big Sur: lined up, and I'm just so happy to be here and really deepening. My thought, leadership and
Deva Munay, Big Sur: curriculum. It's so giving me so much confidence to
Deva Munay, Big Sur: really draw on on
Deva Munay, Big Sur: just these opportunities. Have these platforms, and my February course already has 9 people signed up, and I think 6 of them are
Deva Munay, Big Sur: maybe even 7 are repeat
Deva Munay, Big Sur: returning students. So it's really fun to just be able to offer something new to the people that are coming back and deepen into the material in a new way. So thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so so happy to hear it, David. All like all around the celebration of the thought leadership, the getting the class, and this thing that you're talking about, one of the reasons why money, one of the many reasons why, hopefully, we're all here, which is to learn how to create courses where people re-sign and they want to continue to work with us. So it's not always like oh, to find so many new people, and so many new people
Deva Munay, Big Sur: coming for the fourth time, another for the third and then the others for the second time. So yeah, super super exciting. So thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, well. let's take all of that energy and keep on going. I thought it would be helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to share with all of you an example of beginning, of journey and end, of journey, and steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For us to take a look at together, and I'm gonna kind of explain some of the the pieces in it. So let me share my screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and hopefully, this will be a good jumping off point to look at some of the work that you are all doing and and and help you get to maybe some new places and other deeper questions that you might have for me. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): many of you might know that. One of the things that I teach is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a practitioners to learn how to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work with shadow with their
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But of course, when I teach this what people get, and many of you have, or I shouldn't say many, but some of you here have been to one of my shadow retreat. So you know this, you get to do your own really really deep shadow work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I wanted to go through. I teach this in retreat form, usually in person, every now and again online. It is part of a bigger program almost always, not always always, but almost always and I wanted to go through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the the main pillars of the curriculum for this, because I think it will.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it'll be illuminating for you in terms of the process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So just like I asked all of you to do in our first week when I went to create this many, many years ago, I started with, where am I here starting when they walk into this 3 day retreat? And where do I want them to end by the time they're done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And here's some of the points there's there's many, many more. But here are just some of the points. So when my hero for the shadow training starts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they may have understanding of Yungian shadow, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they don't have a full understanding even if they've studied it before of shadow, the true nature of shadow, how it operates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): usually, when they start they hold a lot of shame and fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): around their own shadow parts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they you almost always, even though they don't realize it. They have some judgment around their clients, shadow parts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And just to give you some brief examples.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some of those shadow behaviors that they have shame around fear around judgment around our procrastination is one example, always putting other people first worried that you're gonna have too big of an ego, not raising rates. Jealousy, you know all of those different kinds of things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the beginning, for the the shadow retreat. My hero. Doesn't know how to stop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the lower level expressions of the shadow, the behaviors, either for themselves or their clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and even though they don't realize it. They cover it like excited to look at shadow. They don't even realize this nest necessarily at first, but out in the world, because the shadow can be so shameful. They've actually been scared to look at their deepest shadows in the face.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even though they know better. They see the world in good and bad and binary terms, which is one of the reasons why there's so much shame around the shadow. They believe that there are some energies and traits that are better than others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They don't know how to help their clients when their clients are in self-sabotage or in those shadow behaviors.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They may usually because my crowd is into all of me as sacred. They may really in many ways believe that when they first come into the shadow retreat, but they they haven't fully embodied it yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the starting point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So do you. Do you see here how I have inner and outer pieces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this starting point. There's inner pieces around fears, beliefs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc., and then outer pieces, not knowing how to do certain things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the end point. They have a very good understanding of junkie and shadow. They really deeply understand what needs to happen, so that shadows can be leveraged for good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They come out of this 3 day retreat not not no longer giving lip service to all of me is sacred, but they deeply believe that all of their parts are sacred and important, even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the unsavory parts, like jealousy and anger and manipulation and laziness, and being self-centered and being judgmental, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They come out of the 3 days, ident, having identifying one of their biggest shadows and understanding how it really operates.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They've come to acknowledge, embrace, love, and see the superpower inside of it. They've released shame around Shadow. They have 3 different ways to work with clients somatically on shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they're actually excited to work with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's so much more at the end point, but so is to not overwhelm you. I kind of have limited here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So does that make sense so far beginning and ending. And I'm really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): answering inner and outer questions for both.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that plates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can then get clear on the steps or the pillars. The journey right the hero's journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get my people from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of this, which is where they're starting in the morning of day, one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to all of this, which is where they're ending the late afternoon
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of day 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm about. I'm going to show you the steps right now, and here's something I want to point out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we look at them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's only 4 overarching steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now. Each of the steps have steps within the steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I'm pointing this out because I'm not trying to stuff a million things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right into 3 days, just like I started this call off with. I'm very cognizant of the with the understanding. And we looked at this last week, too, that less is always more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and con new content always needs to be balanced with time for processing and integration
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if I were to try to stuff every little last thing, and they get a lot about shadow. But if I were to stuff more and more and more and more. It would just go through them like a sieve. They wouldn't get it. They wouldn't feel it. They wouldn't embody it, and they wouldn't learn the skills
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So I'm just looking at 4 stats over 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here are the 4 main steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is shadow? And we take a good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): half a day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to really get into what is shadow. And I'm going to come back to these subpoints, and in a few minutes but step one right before I can do any of this stuff right, get them to any of these endpoints. They have to understand what is shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Step 2, I call it walk the shadow spectrum. They learn what a shadow spectrum is and how to identify it. And there's a specific tech, a somatic technique, right. But it's it's a deeper understanding of the of the shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Once they have this whole first day, this takes the whole second part of the first day, once they have this deep foundation on day, one of what shadow is, then on day 2, we can get into the like. The heart of the heart of the depth of the working with shadow which is to lean into the hardest parts. I put the word monster here. I don't use that in my notes at all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't love it, but just for your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, understanding. But it's really about like leaning into the the least savory parts of the shadow, the parts that they've been avoiding and denying, and actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): learning, not how to fix it, how to get rid of it, how to avoid it. But how to love those parts of themselves, and even use those parts of themselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how to do that with clients?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the last part of this particular journey is to find
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the super power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): within the shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That's it. Just for now there's a lot inside of this, but it's really just 4 overarching steps. If I were to try to put more into this retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it wouldn't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It wouldn't penetrate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): within each of the 4 overarching steps, and I really, just for the first one, I kind of pulled it out a bit more for you to see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There are. There is always a journey. Now this is important. I want you to take note of this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for each of your overarching staff
on the journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there is a mini journey inside of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For each of your overarching steps on the journey there is a mini journey inside of it. So that means that for this step what is shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's a beginning place for this step
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that my heroes are on, and there's an ending place for this particular step. Right? And I'm gonna understand what the beginning and the end is of this Mini journey. And then that's gonna help me understand the steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): within the steps, right? I'm slowing it down. I'm getting to the details within the details.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Better to go d
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than to go wide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the steps within the staffs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): identify what Yomg and Shadow is and how it operates. It's very different than how most people understand shadow who use that term. Learn how to spot the shadow in yourself and others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Learn how to create awareness when you're working with someone so that they can see the shadow where it comes from.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, even though again, also remember, all learning is cyclical, not linear. Right? So step 4. Overarching step. Here is activate the superpower, the shadow power. But I'm already starting to introduce this in the beginning, in what is shadow?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. Let me stop there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's clicking for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you take a look at this? What are you seeing? What's feeling important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin.
Robyn Vogel: Well, my mind is bit of spinning in a way. But
Robyn Vogel: I definitely and I definitely know that integration in between is really important and
don't overload the donkey is what my one of my teachers says.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. it just. I know I sent you my
my thing, and
Robyn Vogel: I don't think I got it. Oh, I was wondering, actually, yeah, did you send it?
Robyn Vogel: I sent it to the right email, address, editor, editor, capabilities and everything.
Robyn Vogel: I'm so sorry I didn't. I'll check my junk when we're done. Let me make a note. If not, you shoot it to me on Facebook, too. Okay, cause I sent it like, maybe Thursday, Wednesday or Thursday. And I was wondering if
Robyn Vogel: So okay, you just asked what's
Robyn Vogel: showing up from what you just said. So all I'm going to say in response, then, is
Robyn Vogel: the, you know, benefit of integration and time, and taking things bite, sized and letting people go deep and inviting them and allowing them to go deep and
Robyn Vogel: even if you know, if there's like more material, you know, that wants to be
Robyn Vogel: shared that the the value is in the going deep, really.
Robyn Vogel: because otherwise
Robyn Vogel: survey course, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, exactly. Or else it's just a survey course. I'm so glad that you're seeing that it it's it's so true. The the depth is important, and what I find. And probably you found this, too, Robin, and everybody. Check this out for yourself is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I go deep instead of y like, yes, there's like, Oh, I wish I could include that, and I wish I could include that. And I wish I could include that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's that feeling. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I go deep, instead of wide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the space that I leave open for people to ask questions and for me to coach during integration time.
Robyn Vogel: A lot of that content usually comes out in the coaching anyway, and people said it. Then in such a more embodied way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, they see it in act. Then
Robyn Vogel: that's true. The other thing I wanna say, we that Tara just reminded me of which I learned from you a long time ago, and I talk about all the time. Still, is that every single step, whether it's huge piece, or a micro piece, or a tiny piece as a beginning, a middle and end, and that is so valuable. And people that don't get that leave their clients or participants, or students, or whatever in a in a I think it's kind of an awkward spot, because you haven't kind of had that
Robyn Vogel: with each piece. So that's right. Yeah, I'm glad you and Tara are highlighting that everything. And we'll see even when we get to exercises. Every experiential exercise is its own mini trick.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paula.
Paula Ackermann: Hello! I think what stands out to me is just how simple and clear it is, and for some reason I think I tend. II really tend to over complicate things, and I think that it has to be. I don't. I don't know what I think sometimes. But I think I make it more complicated than it is. And that just looks so simple and clear. And yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's complicated for you, it's gonna be complicated for your students or the people in your group. Right? So I'm so glad that you're seeing that. And I can feel just even like energetically. I think a little bit of a burden.
Paula Ackermann: Yeah, I think so. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But who else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else that wants to be shared? Anything else that's clicking for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from what we've looked at so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this is just one thing that's popping in as I'm listening to you and others, and that is just that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like the difference between doing this with a small group and a large group. and sort of how much more needs to and can be said when you have a larger group and you're holding a larger container. And then with the small group.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): how it needs to be, I mean, in both cases it needs to be experiential.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but sort of balancing that out
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in in part, because I'm thinking in my mind like I wanna have a thing that I can use with my group I'm running through, and then have, like a lighter touch, higher level thing to run larger groups through. If I'm speaking in a conference? Or what have you? And or leading them through retreat or doing a special offering?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But just yeah. So I'm just thinking about like the layers of that, and how it gets kind of I don't know. Pyramid like exactly. That's why I always say the bigger the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more content you're gonna put in because you have to connect even more dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because you can't track everyone in the group and know this one special thing and that one special thing right? The smaller the group, the more there is space like what we have here for questions and processing and tracking. So I'm still always connecting dots, you know, in a smaller group, for sure. But I don't have to make sure every single T is crossed because it's gonna come out as we process
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather. And, Emily.
Heather and Emily: yeah, I'm just thinking, you know, because the outline you shared is for a very short 3 day retreat. And I'm just curious with a longer curriculum. And we're toying about
Heather and Emily: 10 months or so.
Heather and Emily: since, knowing that learning is cyclical like, how how do we build in like going back and re-integrating
Heather and Emily: stuff from before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll look at this more as we go along. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can even just use what we've done so far in the program as like to, you know, in this program to look at it. Right? So today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to our first 2 calls. Right? We're logging
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what we did the first call second call. We're gonna move on from here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna do something else before we get to exercise creation. But when we get to exercise creation, as I already said, we're gonna go back to looking at exercises through the lens of the heroes journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how to create an exercise understanding where it starts and where it ends
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the work that we're gonna do next week, which is a little diversion from thought leadership work. We're gonna look at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things to do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the beginning of a program before you even get to your methodology.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's all new content. But I'm gonna be reminding us. And you'll see of these first 2 weeks because it relates back to some of the principals in these first 2 weeks we're gonna be coming back to energetics throughout.
Heather and Emily: Is that helpful? That is Yup.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. And then also, you know, heather, you've been through sacred depth. So you saw me model this as a 10 month program. It's a long training program. You saw me model this when we got to working somatically with fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): went back. I didn't teach everything about creating awareness, but we looked at creating awareness as one part of it right again through the lens of how to create awareness with fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So it doesn't have to be this big grand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, circling back. It's just about dropping the seeds and and having the reminders.
Heather and Emily: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So Tara is sharing in the chat that she wants to highlight the question that I just asked, which is, is there anything else that wants to be shared?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You'll hear me doing that a lot again. For integration purposes, right for like, for what's what's here? What what are the needs that wanna be met? My thought leadership and curriculum is, gonna get us really far. But I wanna make sure I'm getting all the crags in between, or the the gaps right? And so I'm creating that space by asking, What's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know? I asked the first time, what's resonating, and then even that. Is there anything else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vesica Singh, what do you consider a large group? I think that just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. I mean, it depends on the subject matter. I mean, IA large group for shadow is gonna be more than 20. I'm always gonna keep that group small right? But for something else. It it might be bigger. We're gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a few weeks. I'm actually gonna have us look together to break down. If the group is this big? What are some of the best practices? If the group is this big? What are some of the best practices, etc., just to to start thinking about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): design and components in different ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, and policy, right? A group 42. We can make it feel intimate and small.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So do I have. I am hoping, hoping I have at least one person in the group who wants to be a little bit of a guinea pig where we can look not at every little bit of the curriculum that you've created so far, but we can look together at your starting point, your ending point, and then the overarching steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that we can all learn from it. Okay, good. Got some hands raised already. Let me just see Courtney's asking in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do the steps or the many journeys need to be truly consecutive?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or is it possible for more than one step to be unfolding in an overlapping kind of way absolutely to the second. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know again, in some ways we have to say things in a linear manner. right? Because we can't say 3 things all come out of our mouth at once.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said, I think it's always on that. That's the cyclical nature it's always unfolding in an overlapping way. So, as an example, I introduced energetics
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on our first call. We looked at a belief we did some work on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but that belief is going to get paved. The more you you continue to do the work of the program, the more we come back to specific exercises around it itself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, we may not get to everyone. I'm gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because I also want to make sure we have time just for open questions as well. But I'm going to kind of pick intuitively for us to at least look at at one or 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so, Robin, let's take a look at your what you've got.
Okay, thanks. I'll be brief. I want there to be time for lots of people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so what do you wanna know? Specifically share with us? Briefly, where your hero is starting and where your hero is ending.
Okay, so my, the program is called, Heal your heart.
Robyn Vogel: And oh, wait! You know I'm gonna pause you for a moment. I'm gonna
Robyn Vogel: try to do something here which hopefully will work cause. I think it will be helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for everyone. Hold on 1 s.
Robyn Vogel: Yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can everybody see my screen?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm gonna type as you go. Okay. I thought you were gonna use a whiteboard. It'd be very impressive.
Okay, my business, my, the program is called Heal your heart.
Robyn Vogel: and it's a program my business is called, come back to Love, and I support people in
Robyn Vogel: keeling their deepest wounds, remembering their divine essence.
Robyn Vogel: Is this coming back
Robyn Vogel: to love?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Robyn Vogel: so that's kind of the 3 bullet points.
Robyn Vogel: the where they start from is often they've been through a some kind of crisis, like a divorce or a death, or some kind of midlife crisis. They're lonely, disconnected, and feeling stuck. When it comes to love and intimacy.
Robyn Vogel: they come in thinking that they want to either be in the relationship or heal the one they're in.
and my work directs them to
Robyn Vogel: do the healing for themselves, so that they love themselves even more deeply, and then they can create what they want in their lives around
Robyn Vogel: love and intimacy.
Robyn Vogel: So they're feeling lonely, disconnected. and kind of wondering like, why can't I get this in my life?
Robyn Vogel: Why do I keep repeating patterns that are not
Robyn Vogel: getting me where I want to go in these rooms. So they already know their repeating patterns
Robyn Vogel: pretty much when I say, Yeah, a lot of people will say, like, I thought, I healed this already, like, why is this? Why does this keep showing up kind of a thing? Yeah. So they've already done some work.
Robyn Vogel: you know.
Robyn Vogel: but already they are, you know, people that are familiar with personal growth.
Robyn Vogel: some spiritual tendencies, if not
Robyn Vogel: already very connected to their spiritual life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, give us some examples of what it means to be stuck when it comes to intimacy.
Robyn Vogel: I should pull up my framework. But I'm gonna go from my mind. From my awareness.
Robyn Vogel: typically, they feel.
Robyn Vogel: okay, this is
Robyn Vogel: stuck related to intimacy. I would say they feel lonely.
Robyn Vogel: They don't have connections that allow them to be authentic with other people, so that they feel really
Robyn Vogel: they would feel seen and heard.
Robyn Vogel: And you know, loved for who they are.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, I would say, like most people have played out a relationship with their wounds. Kind of driving this the
Robyn Vogel: the
Robyn Vogel: in shadow driving the relationship. And then when it ends, they realize I've got either it ends or they're just in a really crappy situation.
Robyn Vogel: and they are ready to do the work to
have a better
Robyn Vogel: relationship.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm gonna guess, like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they end up when you say crappy situation and stuff like they end up feeling hurt sometimes. Feeling like, is there someone else out? Is there someone out there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for me? Tell me if I'm getting any of this.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, they feel hurt. They feel. Yeah, they feel hurt, disappointed.
Robyn Vogel: alone, am I? Am I always going to be alone like? Is this what I was, you know. Am I ever gonna be in relationship?
Robyn Vogel: Am I ever gonna be in a good relationship because it's not singles coaching? So I wanna be clear about that. There are a lot of people that
Robyn Vogel: come for different reasons, but all sort of with that same theme
Robyn Vogel: of feeling, lonely and disconnected, and
Robyn Vogel: yeah, not able to.
Robyn Vogel: Have that in those intimate relationships that they want or intimate relationship that they want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, okay, great. So I'm sure we could pull out even more. But but II was just wanna like pause here and underscore this for everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you all see why I asked Robin to give some examples on what stuck when it comes to intimacy is she knows this right, this is her material. She she knows exactly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it means when she says stuck when it comes to intimacy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But these these pieces that we pulled out of her
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great language for marketing here for the program, right? We need to give these kinds of examples, because if you just stay stuck when it comes to intimacy, it's like it's almost like catch. It doesn't mean anything. It's just like a catchphrase that doesn't tug
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at someone right. But when you say you're done with not having connections that allow you to be authentic in your relationships. You want so deeply to feel seen and heard and loved for who you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're worried that you're never gonna be in a relationship that's actually gonna work for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you all see already just how that makes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for powerful languaging, not just for marketing, but then also within the program to speak to some of these things, these specifics as well.
Robyn Vogel: I know it's so easy to get stuck in our own
Robyn Vogel: language. Yeah. Cause, you know, it's so well right. But this is about slowing it down.
Robyn Vogel: cause someone might not even realize that they're stuck when it comes to intimacy. They just might be like, I have such shitty luck. I never meet the right guy. Right? Yeah, that's true.
Robyn Vogel: That's true. Yeah. Okay, so where endpoints? I caught. Love yourself more deeply.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. Love yourself more deeply. Able to. Okay, I'm trying. I know you
Robyn Vogel: love yourself more deeply able to create intimate connections with other people, where they feel, seen and heard and loved.
Robyn Vogel: and cherished like that word is was in there. That's right.
Robyn Vogel: I mean, just
Robyn Vogel: on the surface like people feel much happier.
Robyn Vogel: and you know they they've been through a healing. So they start out, started out feeling
Robyn Vogel: hurt, and on the other side. They feel
Robyn Vogel: like some of their wounds have been tended to.
and they feel better.
Robyn Vogel: And they feel happier
Robyn Vogel: appreciating the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I'm gonna guess, based on starting point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on some other ending points here. But tell me if I'm getting this right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they have more confidence that they can find a satisfying relationship.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, more confidence. They trust themselves.
Robyn Vogel: they trust
Robyn Vogel: their life journey more.
Robyn Vogel: it's a little bit deeper, but you know they trust that there were no mistakes, and it was all
Robyn Vogel: rest for the mill to lead them to where they're headed.
Robyn Vogel: So there's pieces there. I don't know how if that?
Robyn Vogel: Okay, you're writing it down. So that's good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are they more able to be in a healthy relationship?
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, for sure, for sure. And a lot of them end up in relationships.
Robyn Vogel: even though I don't focus on, you know, like I said, not a singles coach. It's not the work I do. And
Robyn Vogel: I don't focus on it. But it does happen
Robyn Vogel: happens a lot. Actually.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, okay, beautiful. So I'm sure we can go much deeper. But I think for now this is good. Does that feel? Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So from there, just your over like, I shared the 4 overarching stuff with the shadow, share the oh, and tell us how, if you know how long the program is?
Okay, I think it's 8 months.
Robyn Vogel: there are 4 gates. That's 4 steps. Just use your language. 4 steps.
I have them in my mind as
Robyn Vogel: beyond the emotional. So the first pieces around the emotional work.
Robyn Vogel: some of it's healing. Some of it's some other tools don't need to get into.
Robyn Vogel: The second is beyond the mind. So this working with the limiting beliefs and neuroplastic practices that I love that are so powerful.
Robyn Vogel: The third is looking at the soul journey, I call it, beyond the human.
Robyn Vogel: So, looking at like the much bigger, broader
Robyn Vogel: view of why we're here on the planet.
Robyn Vogel: And then the fourth is beyond the body, which is about relationship with body.
Robyn Vogel: pleasure, love erotic. Whatever you know pieces fit in there.
Robyn Vogel: but I'm a
Robyn Vogel: part of what I do is Tantra it
Robyn Vogel: teaching? So that
Robyn Vogel: that's part of that. So yeah. So those are my 4 steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, beautiful. And when you look at these 4 stats.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does it cover all of these end pieces? Are these 4 steps?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Gonna get people to all of these places. 100. Yes.
Robyn Vogel: Okay. Jennifer, we can connect.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, they do. Absolutely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this feels
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really thought out. I you know we could kind of break one of these
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): apart. but I'm thinking what might be more helpful for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and for everyone here is You started to do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but if we were, if you were to create one or 2 sentences.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, okay, let me take this back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for everybody listening. You do not have to create sentences. If it's going to be overwhelming, I'll I'm gonna ask you to do this in your when we look at marketing. You don't have to do this yet, but sometimes, having a sentence that describes each one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can kind of help. You see how they all connect to each other.
Robyn Vogel: how one step connects to the net, to the next, and that you're covering everything. And I think, Robin, for you, this is easier, because this is like this has been your material forever. So you you kinda just know that it all fits together like it all came, I guess. Yes.
Robyn Vogel: but I guess just jumping in like I have something written about each of the 4 and I but I was looking at it. One I was like, is it too much material? 2.
Robyn Vogel: Is it? 8 months? I don't know. And then, like, Yeah, how did had the bridging is is is still interesting to me like.
Robyn Vogel: how does it?
Robyn Vogel: I don't know. I guess it all bridges, because you're doing one step, and then the natural next piece is to
Robyn Vogel: look at the next.
Robyn Vogel: Steph. Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's see, let's talk through this for a moment, or first of all to say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, it would be nice if it's you know an 8 month program, and each of these is 2 months long, and you know, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that right. It might be that the emotional work takes 3 months and the mind work takes less, or you know, whatever it is. Cause I think you I heard you say something along the flavor right? So don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): try to have it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fit into like it. Has they all have to be the same? Okay? Yeah. Cause it's then you're not gonna get to your truest stuff right? So talk us through briefly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why, you start with the emotional work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what's the emotion? That's the only one that you didn't really give a description of out of everything else, you know, in the parentheses. But what do you mean by emotional work?
Robyn Vogel: So in the emotional work. There's 2 actually steps within the emotional step. And the first is, I want to start with it because
Robyn Vogel: it's important to do our emotional healing. And it's also like what people are most familiar with and what they think is like
Robyn Vogel: they should do.
Robyn Vogel: that's to be honest, you know, it's the most familiar. It's like, anyway. So
Robyn Vogel: so we're gonna work. We're gonna
Robyn Vogel: I'm actually not even 100% clear about this part. And in the program I have right now I talk about internal family systems work and looking at trying to find, like
Robyn Vogel: the the one piece that's in shadow that's been blocking
Robyn Vogel: their journey thus far.
Robyn Vogel: I call it the one
Robyn Vogel: the one unrecognizable thing TOUT.
Robyn Vogel: because I feel like we all have that, and it's hard to find it. So it's excavating.
Robyn Vogel: What's been in shadow. And I. So I have different ways to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, let's not talk about the the ways. Let's pause on this, for right now, cause this is important for you and for everyone. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what? What Robin just said? This is the overarching reason for this staff, and to do this step first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because, according to Robin's expertise, what she sees and what she knows for people that start where her hero starts and ends, where her hero ends
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and another person might have the same starting and ending of the journey. But they they don't. They see it in a different way. But for Robin's expertise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and methodology, she knows that for this person there is always something that they have not been able to see up until that point
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is blocking their journey right. And she said earlier, this is someone who's done a lot of inner work. They might know they have a wound around X or Y or Z, but they didn't know about the wound around a. It is in shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this is this. This is where the journey for her people must start to be able to find that piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that has been unseen and blocking, and then work with it. That's why it's beyond the emotional work. And that's gonna set up everything else in the program. And that's where you know, Robin will use different modella, you know, ifs or whatever you're gonna use in this section.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it helpful, Robin? When I kind of put it in those words for you, it is very helpful. Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, it's very helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So your hero has recognized that thing that they haven't been willing to see the thing that's really been the the block.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they've learned they were. I'm assuming in this step one or this, this gate there, learn how to work with it so that it's not blocking them so much
Robyn Vogel: right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do they need next?
Robyn Vogel: Well, they find it.
Robyn Vogel: They learn how to work with it. So I think was what you just said, and then, no, that is true, that, like they find it, there's a developing, a relationship with a
Robyn Vogel: exile part. And then there's the healing that can actually happen. So that that part isn't holding the wound anymore, the burden anymore.
Robyn Vogel: so I would say, that's what's needed next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, is that part of this
Robyn Vogel: gate beyond the yeah. Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: Okay, great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So they've done this
Robyn Vogel: and heal and do the healing also. Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: that's really helpful to see you put it out that way because it's like, Oh, there's like these multiple steps in there. That's right. We can already see one within the step in this short little right? What we're doing. Does everybody see that really helpful?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so now, talk to us about why, beyond the mind comes next, right? They've just created this relationship with the shadow
Robyn Vogel: you're doing the healing. The mind is like the ultimate Sabbatore, you know. It just will bring us on a journey into stories. And
Robyn Vogel: so glad this is helpful.
Robyn Vogel: brings because the mind. Yeah, the mind will take us on a journey. Speak things that aren't true will distract us from our, you know, our journey, our alignment, and ourselves, and
Robyn Vogel: taming the mind to use that language is really important so that hailing can continue.
And these tools. This neuroplasticity tools are like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): outrageously good, helpful and potent. So I'm I'm always so excited to get to them. Next, yep, okay, good. So I'm gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is all great, and I'm gonna I wanna say something, and which may not be true. This might be an assumption. So let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this beyond the mind gate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from what you're sharing, and I'm also reading between the lines, which may not be a good reading between the lines. But I'm guessing that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after this emotional dirt work is done, and this thing is brought out of shadow. And now there's a deeper relationship with it that already sets the stage
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your hero
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to go beyond giving this like limiting belief thing, lip service into really being willing to work with the neuroplasticity around the beliefs that are holding them back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When it comes to their relationships.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, good. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the reason why I'm pulling this out for you and for everyone is to cause. We want to try to understand why this first and why this second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it will inform the curriculum, and it will also help us when we're marketing to understand that.
Robyn Vogel: So what you said is when they do the emotional work it it prepares them, and they're ready to do this next piece around recognizing limiting beliefs and being able to work with them. That's what I'm asking, if that feels okay? Oh, yes.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, that does feel true. Yeah, yeah, beautiful. And you know again, this is more of a marketing piece. But just to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most people would start with the mind
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this journey, not with the emotional work. And so I think you can use this to your advantage. And you can say, you know what I've seen from years of experience is the mind work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we come to these issues that we're working on in this program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the mind work can only go so far. If you have a shadow in place. That's why, in this journey we do the emotional work, for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then it just it gives you so many more resources and opportunities to to do the limiting belief work in a much deeper way.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, so much more space to see them, to see the thoughts. I think. Yeah, more space to see the thoughts beautiful. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay? And hopefully, Barbara, that answers your question in that you put in the chat. So glad it's helpful for people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, great. So continue taking us through to beyond the humans. So why is that the next step? And what? What? Tell us more about what happens there. Why, that's an important step.
Robyn Vogel: So this is helpful. What you said earlier, because this is a small step. This step doesn't require very much time. And I was sort of that was
Robyn Vogel: something I was trying to figure out. So It's helpful that you said that. So I think that seeing what's happening in our lives from like 30 feet up. Kind of looking at our overarching like soul journey is really important
Robyn Vogel: because it gives people my experience with myself and with clients is that it gives them perspective on what's happening. And they then start to see things as like, I said earlier, like not a mistake, but a step on a journey, and trust the overall journey.
Robyn Vogel: That said some people don't really get it, but the people that do are
Robyn Vogel: are like, wow! That was so helpful. So it's like a teaching. And then, like a guided.
Robyn Vogel: you know, meditation journey kind of thing where it's a journal, and they
Robyn Vogel: they say, Oh, that's why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my 3 partners died, or my 3, you know, whatever it is, I love it beautiful, good. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I typed out some of what you just said, because you want to connect those dots.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. Oh, the tre. Yeah. Okay, the trusting. The journey piece.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: that makes sense. Like, if I put it in. yeah, if I put it in material.
Robyn Vogel: then it brings it around
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then I'm guessing. Once they're here, they've worked on the emotional. They've worked on the mind. They've seen their bigger picture. And how it's all actually played out exactly as it's meant to to get them to where they are. That's when they can really work through the relationship with the body and activate the pleasure and the arrival.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. And I guess what I wanna say, cause as you're talking it, I'm seeing it. That of what? Of course, just to say it like, it's not so linear. Right? Like, once we get to the body, all the limiting beliefs, all the emotional stuff, right? Everything's back.
Robyn Vogel: And then we come back for round 2. Yeah. But we have the tools already to take that into the the fourth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yes. So everyone that's such a great example of linear versus cyclical right like this is obviously linear. But then, as Robin is seeing when she gets back here, some of those old wounds are gonna come back up. Of course they are right, but they already have the tools from these first 3 gates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to address them, and then go deeper into the body pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin, tell us what you're taking away from this piece of workshopping.
Robyn Vogel: it's not too
Robyn Vogel: too much for a several month. Course, I just still don't know how long it is exactly
Robyn Vogel: it was 12 weeks, but it's not 12 weeks. It was a lot of recorded material. But it's only now gonna be some, because it's really.
Robyn Vogel: And the other thing I wanna say is that it was gonna have sort of like a rolling admissions. But that is not what it is, because it's a sacred connected group of pi. So yeah. And it also really feels like one piece connects to the net
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): next like you wouldn't want someone right the next steps. Robin is now for each of the gates to figure out the Mini, and we you already have so much of it there, but laid out even more. What's the journey? The mini journey for each of the gates.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, if you post it in the group, or hopefully, you'll send it to me and I'll actually get it. Then we can determine how long it is based on.
Robyn Vogel: Okay.
Robyn Vogel: thank you. Thank you. Everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. Okay. I know there are other hands raised for people that want a workshop, and we will get to one more. But before we do, and you to answer this question, you can just take yourself off mute. What did you learn for yourself from the work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that Robin just did, and and from kind of breaking down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Her journey so far, what are you seeing? What's standing out to? You
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can just go ahead and talk off
Jennifer Rose Gens: popcorn. Aye.
oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina, and then, Jen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, that's okay. If you're on now, just go. Tina Jen and Margot. Yeah.
Live: I'm sorry I was late. I just got a new dog. So that was exciting. So II loved when I jumped in. I loved.
Live: I've been so lost with this
Live: like version of curriculum, writing with tying it, tying it into the hero's journey. But I'm so glad I saw the dialogue being written out. I really felt like I just didn't have a hand on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So II really really appreciate it from Joanna. And I'm sorry Robin.
Live: The just seeing the start of the journey, and then writing it out, and the end of the journey, and then the steps that was that was like the the middle and the meet that II like. I just did. I just didn't have anything, for you know what I mean.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad. I guess sometimes we just kind of like need to see the process step by step.
Live: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're welcome, Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: So
Jennifer Rose Gens: what I've been doing is I'm gonna end like, I said, I like kind of crafted a program, right? So when you said steps.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I was thinking, like every session is a step.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and I have kind of done a broader like phases.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and it just reminded me like, Oh, this! What you're talking about is like the steps is like the phases.
Jennifer Rose Gens: At least, that's like kind of more makes more sense to me. And so I realized, you know, I get to refine my phases, my steps versus like
Jennifer Rose Gens: that each individual step just kind of coming back out a little bit more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And everybody's brain works differently. So for some of us, we need to. We wanna understand the phases first, and then each of the steps underneath the phase. For some of us we need to just write down lots of steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then look for what are those phases or those? But you know what? What groups, under what, and then kind of refine from there. So we can each kind of have our own creative process on that. But I can tell that it's got you some good wheels spinning for you. Good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalite.
Margalit Grunberger: Just my brain is exploding that every step, face, pillar. gait has to have a beginning, middle and end.
Margalit Grunberger: And for my program programs it's the emotional part.
Margalit Grunberger: even though I'm an emotional being. I leave that part out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So now it's like we have that as a sticky note, as you create your curriculum and your steps right. Don't forget about the emotional piece, and bring that through as a thread. You know it can be its own step, but then bring it through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also
Margalit Grunberger: so helpful. Thank you. You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I before we do one more of these. I also just want to pause and ask, are there any questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can just take yourself off mute. If you have a question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kalida, yeah, go ahead.
Kellita Maloof: This might just be restating an obvious thing or putting together what you've said. But phase and steps. please
kind of feel like
Kellita Maloof: it's just gonna be a
Kellita Maloof: repeat of the same steps with a different layer of phase. But for me, it's really
Kellita Maloof: it's almost. I'm almost working with so few steps. But it's just going to be okay, do these steps.
Kellita Maloof: And and with this in your consciousness, and then do them again with this other thing in your consciousness. I'm kind of you can name each of those consciousness layers that would be awesome, I think, continuation of what we know it last week, and I love it. II can feel it like.
Kellita Maloof: okay. Sounds like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Barbara. Was your hand raised to workshop, or because you had a question or or something.
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: Yeah, go ahead. So I guess my question is, like what's coming through to me, and and a question. It's like
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: where our own like, how we all are lean ourselves in terms of, you know. Are we first an emotional person, or first, a spiritual person like that would really. So I'm kind of wondering. Does that kind of set the
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: order of the steps that you would create like. If you think that connecting spiritually is the most important thing in order for you to release the emotional aspects or the mind, you know the limiting beliefs or whatever you know what I mean. So like, I'm just wondering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that would be part of your unique thought leadership and your methodology right? And Robin happened to like, though those are the big gates for her, but that it doesn't necessarily
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have to be that way. You can have different phases or overarching steps, and within each of them hit the 4 levels of learning and processing in the order that feels
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and intuitive for you the order that will feel most helpful for your people.
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: Okay, that makes sense. Then you could. You could either kind of approach it from these 4 elements and cover your material within those 4 elements, or you can have your material in its construct and have the 4
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: aspects of learning within each of those. Okay. So you know, that's how I do it. Like, I'm always looking to hit the 4 levels in whatever topic we're looking at. But those aren't overarching steps. Those are within each. So it do it. How it makes sense for you!
Barbara Daughter, Becoming You Art: This is fascinating! Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're welcome. Good! Alright, Kelly, let's take a look at
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): your curriculum. Thanks. Oh, sorry. You know, Kelly. Actually, I met Kelly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm trying to pick like different. What I think is going to get us at some different things.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay, thank you. Thanks for taking my taking me. And
Kelly Melear-Hough: alright. So my program is
Kelly Melear-Hough: I'm sort of adapting a program that I've already created for for one on one use with clients
Kelly Melear-Hough: and seeing if I can make it into a group program.
Kelly Melear-Hough: I don't know how long it will be yet, but I at least 3 months
Kelly Melear-Hough: and
Kelly Melear-Hough: so the starting point would be
Kelly Melear-Hough: woman, or someone who identifies as female
Kelly Melear-Hough: who is like mid to late career, and she's feeling like exhausted burn out
Kelly Melear-Hough: hopeless. She's not feeling fulfilled in her job, even though she may have reached a high level of success, at least outwardly.
Kelly Melear-Hough: She has tried everything to
Kelly Melear-Hough: feel better at work. And she just can't figure it out on her own. She feels
Kelly Melear-Hough: isolated alone. She doesn't feel seen or heard
Kelly Melear-Hough: are valued for her work
Kelly Melear-Hough: and she doesn't feel aligned or like she's on her
path or her mission.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does she really want? When she starts?
Kelly Melear-Hough: He wants a life that feels better.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does that mean
Kelly Melear-Hough: that
has more joy and
Kelly Melear-Hough: feels aligned
Kelly Melear-Hough: and is more meaningful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are one or 2 beliefs that she holds when she starts?
Kelly Melear-Hough: When I'm
Kelly Melear-Hough: one or 2 beliefs that she holds
Kelly Melear-Hough: that's
Kelly Melear-Hough: that it's possible to have a better life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great? And what are what is a belief or 2
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that she holds, that has maybe been blocking her
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from having this better life.
Kelly Melear-Hough: That
Kelly Melear-Hough: and
Kelly Melear-Hough: her well-being isn't as important as everyone else around hers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Again, I'm kind of pulling on this for you, because Number one, the more that you can name it in your marketing, the more your ideal client is, gonna be like, oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she's talking about me. And also, if this is, if this is true. Then this is something that you're gonna in one way or another, want to address
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? Great. Where does she end?
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay, hold on just once again.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay, so The ending is.
Kelly Melear-Hough: she has
moved out of confusion into clarity.
Kelly Melear-Hough: She has created a point of action.
Kelly Melear-Hough: She knows what to do
Kelly Melear-Hough: to create more joy.
Kelly Melear-Hough: alignment, and peace of mind in her life.
Kelly Melear-Hough: She knows she's worthy of a better life.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and she is taking steps to create a life that supports her and taking care of herself physically, emotionally. and spiritually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. Okay, I'm sure we can pull more out. But this feels good to have us take a look at that. So what are the overarching steps?
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay. So the steps, I think, are a little bit messy at this point.
Kelly Melear-Hough: II feel like the first step is for her to be able to express
Kelly Melear-Hough: what she is experiencing and be witnessed.
Kelly Melear-Hough: So that she feels seen and heard.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and a safe space
Kelly Melear-Hough: I feel like that. That's first, and then the next step is to work on getting clear on what it is she wants to create.
Kelly Melear-Hough: And her life.
Kelly Melear-Hough: including how she wants to feel
Kelly Melear-Hough: so more or less creating a vision
Kelly Melear-Hough: as part of that
Kelly Melear-Hough: She might need
Kelly Melear-Hough: some tools to help her. Because she's been living in stress and exhaustion and anxiety.
Kelly Melear-Hough: She might need some tools for helping her regulate her nervous system.
Kelly Melear-Hough: she might need to learn boundaries.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Working at self-talk and
Kelly Melear-Hough: saboteurs. etc. There's another thing that goes under that I think
Kelly Melear-Hough: also self care giving ourself permission to take care of yourself and have fun.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and maybe even figure out what it is she likes. She may have forgotten.
Kelly Melear-Hough: And then, after that. identify blocks of limiting beliefs.
And under this I wanna include something around
Kelly Melear-Hough: decolonization
Kelly Melear-Hough: and that might be having a guest speaker come in. Who
Kelly Melear-Hough: specializes in that? But I feel like it's an important point
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yep there's a lot of limiting beliefs and messaging that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of got seeped in because of colonization. It's just like in a culture. We don't even realize, yeah, that makes total sense.
Kelly Melear-Hough: So and then, you know, working through those blocks and limiting beliefs.
Kelly Melear-Hough: And then I'm
Kelly Melear-Hough: identifying next steps towards creating
Kelly Melear-Hough: the the vision, the ideal life
Kelly Melear-Hough: and then taking action.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. give me 1 Si don't know how to thing here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, can you? So I just wanna acknowledge that we're almost at 3 30, and we're supposed to end. But I'd love to go a few extra minutes. Do you? Do you have a few extra minutes? Okay, great. And for anyone else, if you can hang on great. If not, you'll have the recording.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But okay, let's take a look at this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is all great, by the way, really nicely done
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we get, and I love the steps, and we will get to the order. Cause you said you didn't. You didn't think they were in order, and I agree. I think. There, there's some shifting that can happen here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But before we get there I want to cut back up to the start and end
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these. These are really great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one thing I'm not seeing in this, that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe we don't even have to see. I'm not sure but I wanted to put it out there as a question is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna get a little bit more specific
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about who this hero is. In a lot of ways this can apply to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think anyone who's not feeling fulfilled and wants a better life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and is is tired, and maybe not. Everybody in the world is like that. But you know II have a feeling that your person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has something a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even more specific to them. I don't know if it's that part of that satisfaction is that they're they're a around, the type of work that they're doing like they really want their work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to have an impact or part of it has to do with their past or part of it has to do with the particularly like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): type of joy. I don't know if that sparks anything for you, as I'm kind of sharing and asking. But I'm wondering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what sets this person apart from anyone else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who wants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to have a better, more meaningful life.
Kelly Melear-Hough: I don't know but I'll just talk So my my thinking is that.
Kelly Melear-Hough: And it's a person who is drawn to spiritual things for wine
and isn't really able to express any of that
Kelly Melear-Hough: and their work.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Maybe they're sort of in the closet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, now, see, now, we're getting specific, right? Because this this is a particular kind of person who's like, Oh, my gosh! I want to be more of myself at work. I wanna feel more seen and valued. I want more joy, and part of this is like II am spiritual, and I can't express any of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the workplace.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and it's
Kelly Melear-Hough: a person who has got an alternative sort of spirituality. So it's not one that she feels safe to express
Kelly Melear-Hough: in mainstream culture.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, beautiful. So this is actually all that we like. We could do more, Kelly. But for now this right here is like a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because this number one is gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even more call to who your person is, and it's gonna distinguish your course
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from any like, I said before, for any other course. That's like, have a more meaningful life. Be more satisfied in your work. This is, be more satisfied in your work, and take more meaning for people who
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are not expressing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): themselves specifically their spirituality in the ways that they want to in their work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that land for you?
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yeah.
Kelly Melear-Hough: no. I think that rings. True.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, great. And so then if that is true, and if it's not, please, please tell me, because I don't wanna like, go down a path. That's that's not so. I just wanna like double check that this feels resonant for you.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yeah, is that I mean definitely feels resonant for me. I don't think I have.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Well, so I've been marketing myself as a transformational life coach and shamanic practitioner.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Right? So people say that word shamanic, and they, if they either resonate with it or they don't. I'm I'm not sure I want to continue to use that word in the future.
Kelly Melear-Hough: but I do
Kelly Melear-Hough: enjoy working with people who. you know, have that sort of spiritual side and want to express it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. So it might be that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, even if they don't express it fully in their work that they're expressing it so in in their lives
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): somewhere that's what they really want.
Kelly Melear-Hough: yeah,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay? So then, with that, we can add, as an endpoint, they. They understand how to express
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): their authentic self and their spirituality
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in work, or the areas of life that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are most appropriate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they feel confident and excited to do so. That might not be it exactly. You know you can play with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But can you see how? Now this starts to give this an even more of a unique flavor?
Kelly Melear-Hough: Umhm. Yeah, I do. And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what? Where this kind of leads into the staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): probably into a lot of these. But the the biggest one that I that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): jumps out at me is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this will let you know more clearly which blocks and limiting beliefs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to work through, because you know that one, for sure of all the people that are gonna be in the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they have some kind of limiting belief around their spirituality, and how they get to show up in it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that might even become its own staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Learn how to stand strong in your spirituality and express it in ways that are meaningful for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. I'm making some of this up. But do you see where I'm going with this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's what's sparking or resonating for you? As I'm sharing this.
Kelly Melear-Hough: So I have been using. He had the spiritual tools and the one on one coaching.
Kelly Melear-Hough: And I, you know, I have word word words around that on my website and my marketing.
Kelly Melear-Hough: but I don't have specifically this piece of
Kelly Melear-Hough: learning. You know how to how to be more authentic with your spirituality.
Kelly Melear-Hough: with anybody but yourself, basically.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So to me, if this feels resonant for you, to me this is really exciting, because it's it's like another dimension to the work that you're doing, and something that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know it feels like your people, just they would receive so much value for. And again, it's something that can distinguish
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some more of that.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay, is this enough to kind of keep on going from here? Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to before we wrap. I'd love to hear a share on what you received for yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the conversation that Kelly and I just had.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you seeing? What's sparking for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalie. Yeah.
Margalit Grunberger: for me, even though I've heard it
Margalit Grunberger: hundreds of times, maybe, or is just, you can't get too specific on who the hero is.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's right, the the specific, the power lies in the specificity. And then more of the your own unique thought. Leadership is gonna follow from that specificity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's what will help stand you apart and really help you help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your ideal person.
Margalit Grunberger: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen, do you have a question?
Jennifer Rose Gens: Oh, I think I was raised from from before. Yeah, I can share if you want another share. Yeah, if you well, if you have one, yes, if not, I'll go to Clyde.
Jennifer Rose Gens: We are in extremely similar niches.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and
Jennifer Rose Gens: although I already did bring in the spiritual piece, it kind of just hit a little deeper with the way you were speaking about it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and so I made sure to like take some notes on the coming out of the spiritual closet. I knew that they were like apprehensive
Jennifer Rose Gens: but the piece of you, tying it together with career was like a
Jennifer Rose Gens: duh like, Oh, yeah, duh moment for me, and this is like, Oh, click! So that was great. Yeah, Kelly, we're like so similar, I love it. And how you're gonna teach it is gonna be different. How Kelly is definitely different, I'm sure. Amazing. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. Clyde.
Kleidi Jeen: Hi, I'm sorry that I am not on video. I'm still putting my boys to bed right now. So it looks really weird at the moment. But for me, I think I'm still searching on, searching for that
Kleidi Jeen: depth. That piece that you found at the end of Kelly's that part about the spirituality it just really, I don't know. I couldn't picture a spiral in like the smallest part of a spiral kind of bringing the the spiral shape into a 3D kind of funnel.
Kleidi Jeen: Kind of picture just bringing that depth to it there. And II feel like I'm still searching. But you know I know that there's something like that that I am on the precipice of finding for my own curriculum and thought leadership. But I'm not there yet, and so it's just making me really like excited to try to to keep going without pushing too hard. But just, you know. Keep at it and and trust that I'll find it.
Kleidi Jeen: But it's just bringing up a lot of, I guess. Emotion around that for my own process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so happy that you feel that excitement. And I know you're gonna get there and also for you and everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is why I want you to continue to submit your your work, you know. Share it in the Facebook group. Put it on a Google, Doc, give me access. I'll I'll ask you questions like I asked Robin. Like I asked Kelly. You know we're doing this together. Come to the get it done. Session tomorrow in ball will help you as well. That's why we're here.
Kleidi Jeen: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen. And Vlad, I know you have your hands raised. I'm gonna II have 4 min, and then I have to to take a break before my next thing. But so, Vlada, let me get you first, and then, Jen, since I haven't heard from you as much. And then, Jen, if there's time and hopefully, I'll get to both of your questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Bada.
Vlada Tomova: I was having a hard time of muted myself. I wanted to acknowledge that I didn't actually start working on the on the course from the beginning, and just listening through through the session. It's I'm thinking of
Vlada Tomova: what I'm offering. I've been offering it for so long.
Vlada Tomova: that now thinking of how can I grow it, actually
Vlada Tomova: thinking through the specifics of the hero. It's really. And not not only is the things of the hero, but of
Vlada Tomova: of the container, like really the beginning and the end. What are the specifics of? And speaking to that more directly rather than just expecting? Oh, it's going to grow.
Vlada Tomova: It's a yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad, I know, and sometimes it can take time, even though it's it's like so simple. Sometimes it can take time to really get that. Yes, I need to address that and speak to that. So I'm glad that yeah, especially because it's something that came to me.
Vlada Tomova: And I responded to a need, and a niche that was there readily available, asking me to provide for it. So I never really worked too hard for it. And so now what I really want to grow it. It's when I need to apply it. Thank you so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. I'm so excited. Thank you and Jen, and let me just first tell everybody the link that I put in there is just the what I was kind of quick typing on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today. Kelly asked for it, and just if it's helpful for people to see, I just gave it open access. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's what that link is. Alright. Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, I'm a little concerned that I'm putting too much in this. I know that'll come, I'm sure we'll have a whole editing, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll talk about that. But yeah, you wanna just speak. Do you wanna share in the Facebook group how long the courses and then share with me what you're thinking so far, and you know I can't like say, for sure, for sure, but I'm usually pretty good at eyeballing, and so if you let me know the format, how long, and then the steps that you're wanting to hit. So not just the phases that you were talking about before, but as many of the steps as you have inside of them. I can. I can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): eyeball it pretty well.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Awesome. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna work on it today. So that sounds great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great. Okay? I look forward to seeing it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Our next get it done. Call cause I see some questions in the chat is tomorrow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from 2 to 3, 30 stern within ball.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Everyone. I'm sending you all. Lots of love. Enjoy your creation process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll talk to you soon.