Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi, everybody! Happy New Year!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I hope that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you had a restful couple of weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and hopefully you took some time off and had some time for you. Maybe you've been working on your curriculum, or maybe not. Either way, I hope it was great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have some really nice time set aside today to do a couple of things we're going deeper into curriculum creation we've spent
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hard to remember was already last year, a few weeks ago, but we've spent the last aside from the the marketing. Retreat. We've spent the last couple of sessions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Moving from what are the steps? The bigger steps of the hero's journey into. Okay. Now let's take a deeper look at each of those steps. And what are the exercises
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that we're putting together? And we've looked at the 4 levels of learning and processing. When it comes to exercises, the cognitive level, the heart level, the spirit level, the body level.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked at different pathways in just to kinda get some different brainstorming and ideas.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked a little bit at the anatomy of an exercise. We're just like the hero's journey. It kind of functions in the same way. Every exercise is a mini journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right with a a start, a setting, the container for the exercise of creating inspiration, getting clarity on it. And then what are the steps of the exercise? And then you know, then, how are we gonna integrate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what just happened in that journey? What just happened in that exercise?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I showed you a sample day of a curriculum and kind of we looked at more exercise ideas, and then how everything is starting to come together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today for the bulk of our time. I wanna use this time as an exercise lab.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so ideally, I would love for a few of you to share some of the exercises or rituals that you're working on within your curriculum or ones that are in other curriculums that you have, that you're still using, and for us to kind of look at them together and pull them apart a little bit and see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe they're just amazing as is, and they don't need any tweaking, but maybe we could tweak them to make them even more powerful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll also, you know, maybe share some more of my own exercises and and break them apart a little bit. To give you some more inspiration. We'll also take some time to look at what I call the 5 teaching modes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll look at it briefly. I just think it it will be helpful. as you continue to work on your curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But before we get into all of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear either some celebrations. When you want to celebrate. What are you getting excited about in terms of your program or your curriculum? What have you been working on? What breakthroughs have come forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's been resonating, or where are you stuck?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Love to hear where you're at? What's going on for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share. or what's been resonating since the marketing retreat, too, we did such big work for break. But that was pretty epic also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share what's been moving through you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's been resonating? What are you excited about? Where do you need help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin?
Robyn Vogel: I can start just to sort of get the juices flowing.
Robyn Vogel: yeah.
So we had a an unofficial get work done meeting, which was really great. And
Robyn Vogel: that really helped me to reach my goal, which was to finish
Robyn Vogel: most or all of my curriculum by December 30 first, and
Robyn Vogel: so what showed up there was a hybrid
online and and in person.
Robyn Vogel: and it helped me to see that. And they helped me to see that I could have
Robyn Vogel: the group that comes for the 5 month program come to one of my already scheduled in person weekends, but to have private time with me before, and also, I realized after.
Robyn Vogel: So it extends my like rental of the space and my time there. But it'll be really nice to have that. And then the continuity so that feels really good, and that
Robyn Vogel: that could be the closing of the whole 5 months or the whole. See? That's not gonna fit into the 5 month, necessarily. So I have to think about that. So maybe I just share that confusion like.
Robyn Vogel: it's a 5 month program. But that that weekend might be like a month after later.
Robyn Vogel: So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think there's a way.
Robyn Vogel: yeah. yeah.
Robyn Vogel: it's gonna have to be in a way, because
Robyn Vogel: a until that program is so robust that there's 60 people in it, like, right? Okay. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be helpful. II think it's okay, right? And it's almost like extra value that can be the bonus one of the bonuses that they get, you know, you might officially close on X state.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But then they get this other thing. And I think, Robin
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's I want you to be thinking about it 2 ways. So one is their journey right like once they're kind of done with the official journey. How does this? And whatever the topic of that standalone retreat, and you can make it the next step of the journey. You just have to spin it for them that way. Right? It's all in the context. So that's number one.
Robyn Vogel: number 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There, that might work to your advantage on a business model level
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for 2 reasons. Number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now, you've got people who have been in the 5 months with you, mixing with people who haven't yet done the 5 months, and the people who've already done the 5 months are gonna be raving about it. And they're gonna be so excited. And and the the new people are, gonna they're gonna hear that this happens in my work all the time when I have different, like communities come together. And you know just spontaneous testimonials and talking about it. And so it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's great for business that way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the second way could be good for your business model, is it kind of brings those 5 month, or if they haven't stepped into something next with you yet, it brings them back into connection and in the fold with you, and if it's appropriate for them to step into something else. It's a great time to invite them, it at that point or reinvite. If they weren't ready the month before, you know, whatever it is so I think it can work in lots of different ways.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, that's good. And I think what that brings up for me. First of all, it's really helpful your framing and and thinking on it, and also to think about like. Is it a bonus
Robyn Vogel: afterwards? Or is it a closing
Robyn Vogel: piece? Is, you know, a decision, and if it's bonus afterwards, then I need to write curriculum for the body. The fourth gate, with just beyond the body.
Robyn Vogel: which I haven't written yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so you you can do that. And if it's a closing, then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it helps that you have that extra day just with them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right right? Because that's when the the closing part would happen. So II think you're in good shape all around. I love that idea, and I love that I just wanna give in what's the word? Like a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a loving push for more? Get it done days on your own like this came through Robin, cause you just met with other people in the group, and and they supported you and you all brainstormed. You're all so smart and have so much wisdom and great ideas. So I love that it came through that way. I hope you all do more.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, we have another one scheduled. That's great. Yeah, thank you.
Robyn Vogel: Thank you. Courtney.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: Hi, Joanna! Hey, everyone! It's so nice to be back.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: I just really I have a weird celebration.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: I,
Courtney Reed-Marsh: as you might remember, I got Covid last month on the fifteenth and
Courtney Reed-Marsh: The marketing retreat was
Courtney Reed-Marsh: really powerful, amazing, and also is kind of like a weird blur for me because I was pretty sick at that time. But I like I just now, like today, maybe yesterday, feel like my cognitive function is coming back. After that it was weird. It was. I was not physically sick for that long, but I was like
Courtney Reed-Marsh: just I was just knocked out of capacity to do anything or to function. My energy was super low and my brain was just like, Yep, Nope, we're just not. We're not
Courtney Reed-Marsh: And so the weird celebration around that is that it? Like, I'm realizing now, on the other side of it that it was like basically a detox experience for me. From
Courtney Reed-Marsh: so many years of being hooked into this constant like
Courtney Reed-Marsh: overlapping other everyone else's priorities for my time and my energy. And, like this, this perpetual false sense of urgency, kind of like.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: just like pace, that that kept me
Courtney Reed-Marsh: renetic and like, hooked into like operating on on like anxiety, adrenaline around
Courtney Reed-Marsh: everything. And
Courtney Reed-Marsh: I've been really like, really unclear, like, in some ways, I'm really clear about what the program is that I'm developing. And then in some ways I've just been like, I have no idea how long this program is like, I just don't know, and I've trusted it. I'll know when I know and I still don't know, but I feel like I'm in this place now where it's like, Oh, I I'm I like
Courtney Reed-Marsh: flushed so much of that energetic stuff out. It feels like a
Courtney Reed-Marsh: like, and it's it's so perfect and auspicious that this is like. Now a New year is starting, and you know, just feels like this really open, clear.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: exciting place to be of like. Oh, I get to decide. Now I get to like, get into alignment with what is my actual truth? Where is my desire and passion and intention, and all of that? And so II just am really excited to be back in this space.
Courtney Reed-Marsh: this fresh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not a fresh version of myself, but this like detox version of myself, it just feels like, okay, this is exactly how I need to be showing up with it now, and I'm just really happy about it. Yes, I don't think that's a weird celebration at all. I think it's a full on awesome celebration. And I can feel it in your energy, too, just as you're speaking. I really really feel it. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I mean, after all those years feeling a detox. I can only imagine the space that's opening up
Courtney Reed-Marsh: totally, and it doesn't change all of the like logistical realities of my life or anything like that. But it just feels like how like this is exactly when I needed this, too, because the the last thing art that I want to be doing is
Courtney Reed-Marsh: replicating all of that old junk in my new thing that I'm creating. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so happy. It's true to your topic of rewriting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stories.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, just the one. The one little thing I wanna toss is that you may not know how long the program is until you do the program, you you may have to guess
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first time and see how it goes. I have certainly done that before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And this is important for everyone, whether it's time length, or do I include this or not? Include that or whatever? It is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): always the first time we do a program. It is, Beta. It doesn't matter if you've done everything that like we've learned here, and the whole process, you know, to a T always the first time is Beta, and you will always learn
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a better iteration of it from the first time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you for that reminder. Yeah. So no, miss of perfection going in any of it. And really, sometimes it's just if if what's holding you back is I don't know how long. I don't know how long. I don't know how long my recommendation to you, if not today, in the next week or 2, to just make a decision about how long it is
Courtney Reed-Marsh: great. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: Hi, Joanna! Hi, all
Kellita Maloof: The the only way that I can approach this is by, even though I'm guessing, making the
Kellita Maloof: making the container, literally meaning
Kellita Maloof: rather than
Kellita Maloof: like picking, picking. How long is it gonna be? And what's the what's the literally? What is? What are the pockets of time that we'll be putting things in.
Kellita Maloof: I know that this is backwards. But I it's my only doorway in.
Kellita Maloof: and and
Kellita Maloof: even even the part of the
Kellita Maloof: since. What I'm doing is helping someone know how to do something that's already planned. Do you know what I mean? The thing is planned that they will learn how to do.
Kellita Maloof: The plan that's creating is, how am I going to help them learn how to do that thing? Yeah.
Kellita Maloof: So it's a little. It's a little different. It's a little Meta.
Kellita Maloof: but I almost have to say this because I feel like I'm just having a little bit of you're doing this wrong by starting by picking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the dates and container. But it really is the only it's that does that make sense. It's the whole absolutely. If that's what feels intuitively right for you. I've done it that way before sometimes as well. Right? So it's just like every right. You wouldn't paint this, you know, if you were an artist, a painter, you wouldn't always start
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a painting the exact same way. You right? You started with how it feels intuitively. Sometimes maybe it's with the color. Sometimes it's with the under drawing. I don't know. I don't know enough to extensively, but you know what I'm saying right? So go with go with what makes sense for you. Reverse engineer. I just want to give you full permission to be in the flow with that.
Kellita Maloof: So just like trying to find, just
Kellita Maloof: so that I can get something written down
Kellita Maloof: to share, you know, to find the, to find a place where
Kellita Maloof: I could actually.
anyway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are you. What are you looking for.
Kellita Maloof: so that I can
Kellita Maloof: write something down that I could actually show you and have it make enough sense for there to
Kellita Maloof: it to be come into bowl. That's that's just a place for you right now, and I'll do so. I'll do something. I will do something. But that's what I was. Gonna say, this is for you, Kalida, and for anyone else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't worry about me. If you, if you want some brainstorming and feedback and suggestions and support from me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna give it to you. Don't worry about if I'm gonna understand it or not. What I don't understand is gonna be great because I'm gonna ask you questions about it, which you need to answer, anyway, in order to keep on developing your curriculum right? So no myth of perfection, not for curriculum, not for submission to Joanna. Right? Just give me what you got, and I'm gonna go with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good and Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I happy new everyone. I'm so glad to be here. I am. Oops sorry.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I am. I am celebrating that. I walked out of the marketing training, realizing that I was very activated. That it brought up more stuff than any other thing that I've done with Joanna, and I think I've been with you almost 2 years now, and and what I'm celebrating is that over break which I really took?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): II was like in the mode still of I you know, I got a lot of the landing page written, and I feel like I'm closer to being able to speak to this, which I'm going to have to do this coming Sunday.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But as I was away, and just thinking about how much I don't know and how much I don't, I'm not clear on. And how, feeling very disappointed myself because I came into this one being like, we're doing this, we're gonna create the program. It's gonna be all done, and then you're just gonna keep delivering it, and it will just be turnkey from there on.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what sorry to get to the celebration is that I realize like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's not that we didn't get to that. And I have something, and there's a lot that I'm not clear on. And there's probably more questions and answers right now. But I I'm actually going to be speaking about a program on Sunday, and it's going to be perfectly imperfect, and it's time to get it out in the world and just be working on it, even if it's a piece of the bigger thing that I want to create. And even if it's leading into that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): so in some ways I feel like a little more dissolution than resolution. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but I think it's been a really important process for me. I'm still in it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I will say so. That's my celebration. And II do have
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): questions or would
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): love some clarity hopefully, that will come today. Just on.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I feel like I'm because this is different than what I thought it was going to be. I'm completely
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): all over the map on pricing and program structure. And how many sessions? And do I begin with, like the deeper dive, retreat or private sessions, and all the things, cause I'm so used to like having the bigger, longer thing in my mind that I was gonna be really full on in. And I'm so I'm kind of peeling back like, how do I do the shorter thing, and not give all of me
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in a really deep dive kind of way, because I'm not doing a deep dive kind of thing.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I think that's what I'm dancing with right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think so just to to say I think we'll have time at the end of this session for looking at pieces like that, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can take it or leave it, Kelly, you know best, but you wrote like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a woman on fire
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after that marketing retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know I looked at it, and it was.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think you have so much more clarity than you think you do. The writing was phenomenal
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and extensive and detailed. You have the whole programme laid out. It may not be that longer, a deeper dive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it is a short, deep dive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's not so short. And it's a beautiful program.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I mean so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And my sense is the having to just start to put it out on Sunday is the next best piece of medicine on this for you.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So yes, he's doing a.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So I wanna like, I said very briefly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want to let me just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bring this up. For myself, I want to talk about what I call the 5 teaching modes. these teaching modes are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, that's just what it is. They're teaching modes, different ways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of teaching.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That I want you to be thinking about using a variety of in your exercises. Every retreat or program or workshop is gonna have a different balance of these 5 in some shorter things. It's not gonna have all 5, or maybe online, or whatever it is. But I think it's just helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to think about these different things. We've covered many of these in different ways already. But I'm sharing it just like the 4 levels of learning and processing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's important to mix up these different modes to ha to have a variety of them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The first one is the one that most people know the best and do the most, which is what I call presentation mode.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So presentation mode is when you, the facilitator, teach by presenting your material.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is when you're sharing content. You're telling stories. You're giving examples. You're teaching a methodology. You're sharing a video right? You're you're playing an instrument
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): presentation mode generally involves all the focus in the container on you as the facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's the most passive of all of the teaching modes for the students, but really it's not passive at all. But it is the most passive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's an opportunity for participants to be open, receptive. Take in the wisdom, the knowledge, the energy that you're sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): presentation mode is great. I am in presentation mode a lot of the time, but you don't want it to be the only mode
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one, because it is so passive, right? And in order for people to learn, it's not just about receiving wisdom, right receiving knowledge. And also it can get boring.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you want to think about other teaching modes as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So teaching mode number 2 is what I call solo work mode
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): solo work. So this is when
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you this you assign, for lack of a better word, you assign work to participants to do on their own
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in session. So this could include journaling, drawing. writing prompts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): visualizations, that you lead your students through planning, blueprinting, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Solo work is an opportunity for your participants to take what they've learned through presentation mode.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then integrate the content
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the revelations more deeply from it, by turning inward
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to their own knowledge, to their own experience, to their own feelings to their own ideas and to mine the gold that lies inside.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll go through the rest, and then, you know, we'll see if there are, you know, I'll we'll kind of process a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's number 2. That's solo mode.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You wanna maybe also think about what I call teaching Mode 3, which is partner or small group sharing and processing mode. So this is where you split your participants into groups of 2 or more, so partners or small groups
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to share their discoveries with each other, to reflect to each other. You know what they're sharing to brainstorm as a group, or to do other types of exercises in small groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): partners and small groups are an opportunity to have intimate and extended time to process deeply
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be seen. because when it's a smaller group. Everybody has time to share right? So to be seen in discoveries and revelations to be witnessed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's an opportunity to give peer feedback
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to hold space for others. So in shorter sessions I often am challenged to find time for breakout rooms for small group sharing, but as we did in our longer, like our 3 day retreat, the marketing retreat you saw we used the partner in the small groups in such important and valuable ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then Robin, just shared an earlier example of this with the with the get it done. Session. There's so much value in it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, 2 more teaching modes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The next one I call full group sharing and processing. We do that a lot here. That's when you, as the facilitator, the teacher, the leader facilitate a group discussion, right? Based on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): present. What happened? What came through in presentation mode, or what came through in solo work mode the full group, sharing and processing is an opportunity to bring the entire community together. To share revelations, ideas, right to to share the brainstorming, to be seen by the entire
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): community, and to leverage individual experiences or blocks for learning of the entire group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for example, just earlier, when I shared with Courtney. Sometimes you just have to based on on Courtney's share. Sometimes you just have to make a decision about time. The first program is a beta
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that was for Courtney. But I let right. That was a teaching that then got to be leveraged for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As you've all already observed. I'm sure I like to have a lot of time for full group sharing and processing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It does so many things. including in a bigger group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It helps me support people individually in quick ways. Right? So that in case the teaching and the exercises, the solo work that we're doing together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): isn't fully supporting, like there's still an obstacle. There's there's still something that needs to be worked through. It. It allows me to to help with all of that, and it helps me track where the group is to see. What else do we need to look at? What else do we need to learn? etc.?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the last teaching mode which is hard to do online. but which is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think, of gold, the the crown of if you're in person is full group ceremony and experiential mode. You can do some
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): experiential work online for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it's it's easier in person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the full group ceremony and experiential mode is when you lead the entire group through an experiential exercise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like a body process or ritual, etc. And this mode is an opportunity for the group to experience the shifts and the transformation as a community. Right? So the solo work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is, you're kind of journaling on your own, but or doing a visualization on your own but when you're doing, for example, a group ritual, everybody is experien. Everybody is having their own experience. But they're experiencing together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's happening?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. That was a mouthful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hopefully it is activating some ideas and inspiration. Let's pause for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): teaching mode number 4, full group discussion on our shares. On this I was just in present patient mode. If I wanted to do a solo work mode first, I would ask you to, you know, like, what's your favorite of these modes? Which one do you stay away from? Why do you stay away from it right like we could do that. But we're not gonna do that today. Instead, I'd love to hear what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is resonating for you. What's popping for you? What questions do you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather. And Emily.
Heather and Emily: Yes, so with the
Heather and Emily: curriculum that we're planning as the 9 months and 3 months modules.
Heather and Emily: I can see the day of class much like you do, being mostly in presentation mode. But
Heather and Emily: is it okay to like for the solo work? Is it okay to have like multiple assignments that they do throughout the week until the next class?
Heather and Emily: Or should it be only like one piece of solo work?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good question. So first of all, I would encourage you to do some of the solo work during class time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cause they're in the container right? They've put aside the time you're holding the container. It's, you know, it'll get done. Whatever that exercise is right. And also that's part of the learning process. II wanna encourage everyone, even if you're mostly in presentation mode to not be only in presentation mode in in your work. Have some of that solo works something right?
And then it depends on your ideal client how much homework you give in a group?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So you can tell me about the inmates. I'll use an example, new moms, if you. If your group is is for new moms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're not gonna give more than one piece of homework to those people because they can't. They are busy doing all the mom things and not getting sleep. And right. So you know your people best
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it? Appro. You always want us with homework. You always want to set people up for success and give them a win
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Too many homework assignments that people aren't gonna do. They're gonna experiences, whatever the opposite of a win is, and then they're gonna be less motivated to show up and continue because they're feel like I didn't do it. I'm not. I'm not caught up, or all the things. So for your people, what would be appropriate, knowing who they are, what their environment is, etc. And that's what that's what I worry about, cause. So my target is for folks preparing for release.
Heather and Emily: And so I can see some some people being really excited and motivated and wanting multiple
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): assignments. But then I also see it backfiring for those who get easily overwhelmed. Yeah, so here's so this is great cause. This is not just for your people. I think this a lot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything that is an essential staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do it in class.
Heather and Emily: Okay, anything that is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): awesome but optional.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give it his whole work. and let people know that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So that whatever is essential to the journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is going to happen in the class time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So as an example, even in life, changing courses. Because the actual working on the curriculum is important. That's why we also have to get it done. Sessions for the people that want to show up for that. And then some people right work beyond the get it done. Sessions on their curriculum. But because that is essential. I include that as part of the program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Heather and Emily: thank you. Yeah. Good question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tara.
Tara Sage: Hi, Joanna! Hi, everyone happy New Year.
Tara Sage: I'm in the prep process for a 90 min New Year planning workshop that I'll be leading on January nineteenth.
Tara Sage: and one of the key pieces that I you'd laugh. I have 8 12 sticky notes all over the place, and I keep reordering them like, what order do I want to do things in?
Tara Sage: But one of the key pieces is about this distinction between a desired result and a goal
Tara Sage: and goals being measurable and actionable, and a desired result being a desired result. Right and how that
Tara Sage: makes room for you to achieve a goal.
Tara Sage: whether you've achieved the desired result or not. Right like
Tara Sage: we could come up with a lot of examples of that.
Tara Sage: So I've got this conceptually right. And I know I want to do some solo work in it. I want to present about it.
Tara Sage: but I don't yet have a plan, and I know I'm someone who, when we talk through it, I connect dots. So I'm just kind of putting that out there. One of the things, too, about goal versus
Tara Sage: desired result is how that distinction allows you to be committed.
Tara Sage: But not attached to the outcome. Necessarily right. And I really want to play with that in the group
Tara Sage: and just putting it out there to hear what you hear from that. That might help me PIN it down a little bit more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for what I want to guide them through during the workshop. It's 90 min. I don't know if I said that, but that might be helpful to know you did. This is great. This is something you know. II wanted to use part of today as a little bit of a lab for exercises. And so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this might, I was imagining
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people bringing forward exercises that are already formed. But I think we can. Let's let's let's experiment with something that is not as formed, because I think it will be helpful for everyone for us to kind of brainstorm through some of this together. Is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great great? Yeah. So let's spend a little time on this. So what I'm hearing, and tell me if I'm getting this right
Tara Sage: is that you would like for the participants of this 90 min workshop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to walk away with an understanding of the difference between a goal and a desired result. and to have identified
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): both, you know, for themselves, maybe for this year, or for the upcoming, whatever period of time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And is there anything else that you want them to walk away with. some not being attached to the results?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's I heard so far. Is there anything else that you want them to walk away with.
Tara Sage: Yeah, I want them to know why. So they're coming in. Their their prep is gonna be bring your top 3 goals, dreams or desires for the year, and or your to do list. So someone who doesn't know their top goals or dreams. And then from either of those 2 lists.
Tara Sage: I'm gonna have them do a 5 Y exercise like, why is that on your list? Why do you want that? And like journal
Tara Sage: a little bit about why?
Tara Sage: And then, whatever the answer is. why do you want that and do that 5 times to like, get to the root of their why behind the goal or dream.
Tara Sage: And then I'm thinking, that could be a nice transition into this distinction between
Tara Sage: a desired results and a measurable, actionable goal, like, I just finished a fitness goal of 1,023 kilometers in a year. Okay, whatever. I also have a goal or a desired result of losing 10 pounds. I did not lose 10 pounds, but I did achieve the goal, so I feel good about the goal, despite the desired one of the desired results not coming true. Right?
Tara Sage: That's just one little example. But
Tara Sage: II can feel empowered about
Tara Sage: the goal, regardless of the results happening or not like. There's sense of achievement and completion
Tara Sage: and recommitment, and all of that
Tara Sage: that comes with it. So not sure if that answers your question, but I think it does. I'm hearing like the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in addition to what I said, like, really, the kind of the bigger
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): promise of the 90 min is to create inspiration and motivation, to move forward
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the goals or see that some maybe like if the Y is kinda crappy to let it go right, and then to also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel inspired and motivated by hitting goals.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even regardless of the when the desired result is coming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and maybe the result might change through the goals, right? So to feel empowered.
Tara Sage: And yeah, that's
Tara Sage: that's key, because we can't control how quickly something comes. But we can control what we do within a timeline that we commit to doing an action.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Okay? Great. So I don't think you can promise any more than that in 90 min. So if there are any sticky notes that go outside of that? It's, I would say, save them for the next thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now. You know that between just kind of getting people settled.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): getting that container together, talking high level about all of this right? And then a little bit more in detail about the why the why is so important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then getting through that beautiful Y exercise that you just said, and we're gonna come back and we'll look at it. That y exercise a little bit more in a minute. That's gonna take
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you half the workshop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right there to get to the end of all of that in a meaningful way where the why exercise is is impactful for people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you've got 45 min left.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And really 40, cause you want to spend the last 5 min at least. Take aways integrating, etc., right? And if you're gonna in, invite them into something else from there, then you've even got less than 40 min, because you want to take at least 5 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on that right to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): To get to this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): understanding the distinction between the goal and the desired result.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to feel like you said, empowered in the reaching of the goals
Tara Sage: even if the result doesn't happen yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you want me to just talk through some of this? Sure, yeah, maybe I'll do. I was, gonna yeah, I think I'm just gonna talk through for okay. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we think back to the different pathways in that we looked at a few weeks ago for me, and tell me, cause this has to be intuitive for you, Tara. For me. The first place I go is the obstacle.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right people. In other words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's hard for people to feel empowered in goals because they're so attached
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the result, and what the result means, and what it means about them and and their identity with the result, and what it means about them, what whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So one way you could approach
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of that is to have people look at why they're so attached.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to use your example right? You might ask a series of questions of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why are you making losing 10 pounds so important? What would it mean
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about you if you did, what would it mean about you if you didn't? What are you making it mean about you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you don't achieve
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that desired
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): resolve? Right? So kind of go along that line of questioning to look at the underlying beliefs.
Tara Sage: Yep, that's brilliant.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the like, what would it mean about you. If you did.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you could, if you wanted to. Now we're thinking of a journey right? So first, we're getting at the beliefs, either you could. Next, you could kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have them poke holes in those beliefs and create some different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beliefs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that apply, whether they reach the desired result or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or if they're good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beliefs like, then I'll feel great about you know. I'll feel great about myself.
Tara Sage: What else? Then you could go down. You could choose to go down a road of well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how can you feel great about yourself, no matter what what is evidence to you like? How is it that you actually can actually have the desired result today, right right now and then, maybe from there going to some somatic pieces on that. Can you feel that desired result right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you dialogue with the part, even if none of you feels that feeling good about your body, even if it's just in your little pinky? Can you start to focus on the Pinkie and dialogue with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and make that bigger? Right? Or what you know, there's so many different ways you can go. I'm gonna stop talking so that I was gonna talk about stop talking. What's popping for you? What are you seeing in this?
Tara Sage: Well, thank you very much. I'm I appreciate so much of your feedback looking for the why they're so attached, or why why they want the thing, and then why they're attached, and what they're making it mean
Tara Sage: about them. If they do, or if they don't right. I was
Tara Sage: that I love how that gets to the underlying beliefs of not only why this is important to them, but who they are in the goal that they're setting out to create. And that's really at the heart of it. It's not about.
Tara Sage: I just use the 10 pounds example, but it's not about whatever the goal is, it's about
Tara Sage: who they are being, and how this is really a course about self actualization, not about goals at all right. And I'm laughing. I just have to say this to get out of my head. A friend of mine I had. I had to do 5 miles a day the entire month of December to get my goal. Matt for the year to meet my distance goal, and a friend of mine said.
Tara Sage: I won't think less of you if you don't do it, but I might think more of you if you do do right, and I think that's kind of how it was so beautifully honest.
Tara Sage: She's like I won't take less if you don't. But II might think more of you if you actually accomplish that like, that's kind of awesome. And and I think that's a funny story, and also how we kind of if we're talking to ourselves that way, it could actually be really helpful. It's like I have to stretch to achieve this. And then I think of myself in a little bit of a higher way, because
Tara Sage: I did the thing that took endurance or so or
Tara Sage: work. Yeah, but I won't think less of myself if I don't
Tara Sage: right. And and that's a really beautiful, too. That's a whole other direction. You could take it in as well. Be mindful of the time that you have. I think you'll you make some choices. But yeah, I love that.
Tara Sage: I love that. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, good. I'm gonna come back to the Y in a second. But first, I wanna hear from others just kind of with Tara and I talking through that even topic is completely different. What's something that you learn or came together? What? What's resonating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Natty?
Natty Frasca l The Feminine Rebellion: I'm just struck by how deep we can go
Natty Frasca l The Feminine Rebellion: with just one
Natty Frasca l The Feminine Rebellion: one post it. It's like, what are we making it mean? Like, what are the blocks? Where the beliefs? How can we, you know.
Natty Frasca l The Feminine Rebellion: turn those beliefs around. It's like one tiny thing like you could spend half a day absolutely right? So much more than the night. Yeah. And it's like we should like, that's our work right? It's like you have to. We have to go deep.
Natty Frasca l The Feminine Rebellion: Yeah. anyway, just powerful to watch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm glad you're underlining that cause it, it comes back to the less, is more, and so always go deeper instead of wider.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Really, the only time to go wider is, if you're doing like a survey kind of markety type thing, and even then I would still say, Go deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then, wider
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyone else want to share what clicked for you. What you see is applicable for you, what you're learning? From what Tara and I talked out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so then, Tara, take us through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the Y exercise again, it might be exactly as is. But let's see if there are any tweaks that want to be made to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what I'm understanding is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where your heroes are at the beginning of this exercise journey is they? They have either goals or to-do lists.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they might be connected. They might be disconnected, but it's like it just feels like an over, maybe like a jumble of things, or they're not sure how they're going to, or if they want to, or if it's clear, and where you want to get them to that. By the end of this exercise journey of the Y's is to to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be clear on the value of getting the to do list done or the goal done. You know how it fits into their lives, and what they really want for themselves?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Am I clear on the beginning and end of the
Tara Sage: yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And some of the
Tara Sage: revelations I've witnessed happen is either.
Tara Sage: Wow! I really really want this. I want it so deeply. Or that closet I was gonna clear is actually something so much deeper, you know, or
Tara Sage: or wow! This is a total should, and like somebody else, told me, I'm supposed to do this, and I actually don't want to do it at all. I'm totally taking it off my list, cause it's not my prior, right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, oh, so let's pause on that. So this is important. You might already be doing this, Tara, but I'm just kind of slowing it down for everybody. So before Tara
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): asks people to write down their wise, whatever the first step of that exercise is. The real first step of this exercise is for Tara to share everything that she just shared with her group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): She's setting the container for that mini journey of the exercise. She's getting investment in the exercise because she's showing the impact of what could happen if they invest their time into to answering these questions that she's going to ask.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): She's giving examples. So people can see the range of what's what's gonna happen. Right? This is this is similar right at the beginning of every exercise is a mini thing. Of what we do at the beginning of every program is create excitement, motivation, inspiration for the the Mini journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so you're gonna set them up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then what's gonna happen next?
Tara Sage: I
Tara Sage: I would say, look at those top 3 goals or top 3 things that are on your to do list and pick
Tara Sage: one to start and and journal on. Why.
Tara Sage: like, just give them like a minute.
Tara Sage: 2 min.
Tara Sage: just a quick top of mind. Reason that you're doing this thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful.
Tara Sage: Yeah, I guess the question that comes up is, at what point do I invite shares.
Tara Sage: If I'm going to do 5 rounds of Y,
Tara Sage: yeah, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So because you're doing 5 rounds of Y, and the first is pretty surface.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd say. ask for a few shares in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after the first round. You're not gonna have time to go to voice to voice. But yeah, for anyone that wants to read out a couple. Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one thing for you, and again for everybody else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when in any anything. When you ask people to choose one thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): especially when it's like your goals and your to do list like things that they want right? They want all of them. So I find that that there's gonna there's speaking about resistance, right? Like just a brief to to say, I'm asking you to choose one. You're not gonna choose the wrong thing. Go with what's intuitive to you, and don't worry about the other things missing out, cause you get to repeat this process on your own with the other things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. Just so people don't spend. So cause you also don't have a lot of time for people to deliberate, which is the one thing I should choose right. So you might just want to speak
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to that
Tara Sage: a little. Thank you. I was thinking it. But yes, I'm just. I'm connecting with dots for you and everybody else. Yeah, I need to say it out loud. I appreciate that reminder. Alright good. So they're gonna do their first. Why, they're gonna share in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then your, what's gonna happen next? Same exact question.
Tara Sage: Why? Why? So from the thing that they've identified in the chat? That is their why, why do you want that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful? And then they get another
Tara Sage: minute minute and a half. Yeah. so. And then the same thing is repeated over and over again 5 times. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. And then what happens next?
Tara Sage: Then I will invite someone to share. You know what came up for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful? Okay, great. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the only other kind of few things I would suggest
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is again thinking about resistance. Some people are gonna be totally in it when you hit the third time, and the fourth time. And some people are gonna be like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. So you might wanna either speak to it beforehand. And then, even throughout, like. By the time you hit the third or fourth you'd be like, I know, I'm asking the same question again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna encourage you, even if your rational mind is saying like this lady doesn't know what she's talking about. I promise you there's something inside of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is underneath it? What is inside of it. Do this for yourself. What is? What is the deeper? Why. beneath that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? I would maybe, Tara also, by the third one. ask for one or 2 voice to voice shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either for a couple of reasons. Number one. In case there are some people that are getting lost so that they don't just go through the whole exercise, you know, so that you can help them, and then, of course, it will help everybody else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number 2. There are going to be some good things that are already coming up for people. They'll see it in the chat. But to just be able to. So that other people here. What's going on is, you know, the community helps activate each other. So I'd say, start act, asking for some voice to voice shares after the third question
Tara Sage: that feels good. I like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then is there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end, after they get whatever the deepest? Why is is that it? Or is there like something that you want them to know about that like, is there? Is there kind of a round off to all of this, or like a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you know what I'm saying?
Tara Sage: Yeah. So
Tara Sage: I'm literally I'm be. Can you tell? I'm behind schedule?
Tara Sage: there, there are pieces about
Tara Sage: shifting into
Tara Sage: thriving right? This the survival mode to thrive, mode pieces of what's in the overarching program.
Tara Sage: and these fit into that. So when you look at your goals
Tara Sage: with no wrong answer here.
Tara Sage: Does it support your survival, your needs being met, and a sense of relief?
Tara Sage: Or does it support your thrival, your expansive sense of like, what might I create next? And who can I be in this expression? And neither is wrong. But where? Where are you creating from?
Tara Sage: Yeah. And so. And how might you introduce more thrival mode
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the energy of creation as you set out to create in the coming year? I think that's a beautiful round off to that. you know. If you wanted to put that there. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): love that. What are you learning from all of this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Me? Are you asking? I'm asking you first one thing, 1 one way.
Tara Sage: the depth of going slow. the power of going slow.
Tara Sage: because I never have a shortage of material or content.
Tara Sage: but
Tara Sage: slowing it down.
Tara Sage: deep bends the experience. And I'm I'm looking forward to leading this and seeing how the group responds to it, cause they're they're right for it.
Tara Sage: It's it's gonna be. It's going power up, going slow. Yeah, in power.
Tara Sage: Thank you, Jenny.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thanks, for I kind of made you into our volunteer. But thanks for volunteering first. Thank you. Happy to be the volunteer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear what some other of you are learning what's resonating for you from Tara's case. Study.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin is saying in the chat, this is helpful to me, as I have a 1 h online empower women series workshop coming up. Yeah, it's helping me think through taking them on a real journey. Beautiful! Good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What else are you learning in general about exercises. I'd love to hear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one more voice. Yeah, David.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're talking, you're on mute. I can't hear you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You there, Deba.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're on mute. I see your mouth moving
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Maybe it's not working right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, you can't get it off mute. Okay, Kelly is saying, yeah, it's helping you to remember to slow down. Yeah. And great to see the step by step. Experience, we can provide with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? Got it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had a class right before this one, and I forgot to refill my glass of water. And I'm worried. Okay, to get a glass of water while I get my glass of water.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna invite everybody. Go through your curriculum. See where you have an exercise that you might wanna workshop here like we Tara and I just did, or where you're like, I just don't. I wanna do an exercise for this? But I can't come up with anything, and I need help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we'll do those. I'm just gonna take 20 s and get a glass of water while you look through what you already have, share something fully formed, share something not formed at all. We're gonna use this time for everybody's learning. I'll be right back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer is asking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen. I'm not sure which questions you're talking about, can you just let us know?
Jennifer: Hi, yeah. You mentioned when?
Jennifer: She's asking why you said to ask like deeper questions, like, why and what are you making it mean? What does it mean if you do, what does what does it mean if you don't?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, that was for the second part of the workshop when that was for that other exercise for the second part of the workshop. Yeah, not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not this one exercise.
Jennifer: What? Really? What? Wait, what.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tara and I were talking about 2 separate exercises, the first exercise in the workshop where the why's the 5 that we just went through? And then the set step 2 was gonna be about really understanding the difference between a goal and a desired result.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and either detaching from the result or seeing how W. Like looking at the the beliefs around the attachment, or seeing how to bring it into their life right now. So those other questions were part of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a separate exercise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but in the same goal, setting workshop. Right?
Jennifer: Okay? So those questions would go before the wise right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tara was talking about it as a step, 2 after the wise. Okay, yeah. Ask me why? Let me ask you, why are you asking this question? How does it like relate to what you need.
Jennifer: I was trying to clarify. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. So it would be part of step 2.
Jennifer: Okay. thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah. I I wanted to share about one idea that I have, or or the piece where II don't have very much, and just get some thoughts on that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I so with most of my modules. There's a lot of somatics pieces they're involved, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this one feels more heady to me and almost luxury. And I'd love it to be more meaningful.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And that one is just around the fact that, like doing the self care and resilience building work and the healing work is actually change making and how it's titled, how supporting your nervous system, body, mind, and heart help you to move out of overwhelming. Get off the path to burnout, or this is the change making. And then that's what follows.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And so I've
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I've thought about. I mean, I can definitely share from my own story. And I think it's really helpful just in terms of setting the container
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I think it's also helpful for people to look at where the patterns come from just looking at you know, doing some journaling on. Where? Where does this arise? And looking at? How do you do work? And when you go into it from the not enough place where you know. Where is that arising from.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then getting them to the place of.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know worthiness and feeling worthy of the self care and attention and well being and healing. What have you?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was thinking of helping them explore moments where they have had experiences of being filled up or had experiences where they're really in a place of
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): connectedness and feeling enough. And then they show up for someone else, and how much more powerful they can be, and how much supported, how much more supportive they can be.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): so I was thinking of those, and then I have this one exercise that I really love to do with people which is just putting up on a Powerpoint 3 distinct images and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): having them write. It's basically you take the images and write down all of the things that are sort of easeful about it, and all the things that are challenging that they see represented in the photos. So if they see like, I love using a tree with exposed roots, and then talking about how
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): how the roots represent the parts that are like under the ground that we don't see. I mean, that's just an example I would give, or the that's in like the challenging part is like they're underground. We can't see them.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But you know the other on a positive note like I would say, like as the roots as the as we go deeper into the roots like the branches, can grow more. Or you know, there's all these different ways that they can
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): look at the photos and find what is representative for them. And I haven't thought through the questions specifically for this piece. But it's a that exercise is one that really gets people sort of out of their heads, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): they can very easily access it. And then they share and group and see all these different all these different experiences of it. So those are the pieces that I've thought of for it. But it all feels very cognitive.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know the images. One is a little more is a goes, takes them a little bit deeper. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. So I'd love any input on those or other ideas. Yeah, I think it's not all cognitive, and I am thinking of ways to you know, we can maybe deepen some of it. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how long do you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for it?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): This is this is one of them module. It's the 12 week program. So I was thinking, this would actually be. This is a shorter piece, because it's really about shifting mindset and setting them up.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It's the first module. but it's setting them up to do more of the other more embodied pieces. And it's right before we go into the nervous system and understanding the nervous system and its impact.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then looking at the patterns in that. So this could be one day's focus, or it could be, which might be 90 min. I haven't still figured that out. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, yeah, from the 3 pieces that you mentioned, you could get it done in 90 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it might be a little tight.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because just even the last piece with the images is, I don't think you could spend any less than 30 min on that to do it, you know, in in a fuller way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, so there's really 3 kind of, so the the goal of this class or this module is for these change makers to really start to understand on a deeper level that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to do their best work as change makers, and in order to make the biggest impact. they need to also give to themselves. They also need to take care of themselves. They also have to nourish themselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the the deepest of ways. They don't need to believe it a hundred percept fully when they come out of this, because they still have more of the program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we wanna create some breakthroughs in wherever they're gonna be in all different beliefs. When of that, when they start different levels of that. And we wanna create some bait breakthroughs so that they can get deeper into this idea. Am I getting that right? Okay? So, as you said, the first step, which I think is great is to do some work and an exercise around looking at the patterns.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So at first, I'm just laying out the steps right? So we're gonna look at the patterns.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the second step is about understanding or looking at where they've nourished themselves before in the past, and how that has actually helped them be better change makers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the images.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hold on. I had a thought. I just wanna kind of put it back together for a second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is just one suggestion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I'll see how you like it. I might put the first 2 together in one, because they they're they're both along the same lines
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So if you're gonna do cognitive work in the beginning, let's kinda get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that out of the way. Have people. You can do it through journaling and discussion. Have them. Look at. Okay. Wh, what are the ways? I'm not taking care of myself. What happens when I don't take care of myself? How does that, you know impact whatever. What? When are times when I have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): blobby? You know all of that. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I often not always. But you know I've said before, it's nice to start with a cognitive understanding, and also that's giving them a baseline of where they're at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From there to go start to go deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might take some time to look at the fears
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. And and you can start just by naming them right in presentation mode. Okay, so all we all know better. We know that actually, like we have all heard and read all the articles. Self care is important. It helps us feed others. Put your oxygen mask on first all the things. But why? Why don't you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And then you can say, Well, usually it's because of fear and name out some of the top fears that you know your people have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that hold them back from this believing right, that self care is so important for their work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, you know, because you've been through sacred depths, you know, and advanced, Kelly, you could do a befriend your fear so they could all pick
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which fear they want to work with. and that would get you into the somatic
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and just some more higher wisdom
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): places. And you can do that through visualization. You can do that through journaling. But maybe to start to unwind some of the belief in the fear you could do a rewiring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): process to from sacred deaths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have discussion on that. And then I think that would be a beautiful setup
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the pictures in the end. So because that then they're they're gonna be even more open to see some of the higher level messages
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the images.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what I would say is with the images. The question that you ask them or the questions, make sure
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're making the connection to self care, the importance of self care.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if you wanna bring it even deeper after they share a little bit about what they see and what the messages. I see that the roots right to use the example. I see it's so important to water the roots of the tree in order to grow
Have everyone, then, with whatever the most important takeaway is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have them go back into their body with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and have them feel the feeling of the image.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and really feel it in their body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then to top the whole class off. I would pick one outer action, step around self care
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they feel inspired
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to work on, based on the class.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): cut? What's stirring for you and all of that? Great I love it. You're
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you're so quick at putting the pieces together. I think I had held off on doing the offender fear piece, because in my mind the that was going to be in the more advanced version.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But I as I'm listening, I'm realizing.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I was thinking it was further down, because it feels like a deeper process. And this would be really an opening like this is where we're starting.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But II like the idea of going in. And maybe it's like feeling back and touching into it. But then, as we do the more advanced work, then it's it's basically scaffolding. Exactly. You don't have to go so so deep in the beginning with it, right? And you can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know you can shorten it, but enough for people to really see the fear, to understand the difference between the fear in the past and the resources in the presence, and get to some higher wisdom.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): That's great. Thank you. And then to tie it off
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): with having them like really feel in their body. That's great. I have one question, which is just that I had talked about doing the 5 modules.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I'm toying a bit with the last one. But I'm wondering, should this just be one of the modules, even though it's not taught as a class like, should it be a piece of what I'm including in the description.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): because it feels like a really important if it's going to be part of it. It feels like an important piece to speak to, because it's something that I think is huge in this population.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): okay. And I can call it a module, even though it doesn't mirror the class itself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): completely. Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): okay, great. Thank you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, I'm gonna in a minute. I'm gonna ask everybody what they are learning for, what you're learning for yourselves from the case. Study that Kelly and I just looked at. But before I ask that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what other inspired ideas do you have for Kelly whether she uses them or not, just for brainstorming purposes. Did you see? Did you have a thought, or an exercise, or a vision, or an idea of something that came up as Kelly and I were talking.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It might, it might be for Kelly, but it might be for somebody else in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone want to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jessica.
vessica: can you hear me. Okay, great. Yeah. I'm not sure where this fits in. But this is what popped up for me, and I just wanted to share it. Kelly, and with you also. Janet, because I wondered how this would work. So one of the things that I've discovered
vessica: recently is that
vessica: I cause I fall into Kelly's. This is a big thing for me, Kelly, around self care, and one of the things that I discovered was that it wasn't from a fear that I don't do it. It's that there's something called internalized neglect
vessica: that happened for me, and meaning that since I had a mother who didn't take care of me, and I learned how to not take care of my like. My internalized neglect was unconscious.
vessica: but when I became conscious of it, it's like shifted in such a big way, and it's like I have no idea. Why is it that I don't take care of myself? The way that I know that I should. So I just wanna put that out there because a lot of times I think there's maybe women and a certain age range who might have grew up with moms who are working. And we're single parents or something like that. Or we didn't have that nurturing mother experience, maybe abuse. Or what have you? So I just wanna put that in because I think it's important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. I'm so glad that you're adding that to the mix. And that's something, Kelly, if you choose. If you feel like that's applicable for your ideal heroes, you know, at the beginning of that fear section. That's an example you can give, even though it's not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like fear fear there's a there's an unhelpful belief in that right like I maybe I'm not worth taking care of, or this is not what we do, or you know there's no time for that, or whatever it is, and they can work it the same way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has a fear.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you. Thanks so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. Who else any other inspired ideas that came up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are you seeing? What are you learning for yourself? What are you starting to get excited about based on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these case studies?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And is this helpful? Let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin.
Robyn Vogel: Well, I've been a little bit stuck on what I wanna teach, for beyond the body
Robyn Vogel: section.
Robyn Vogel: which I think is has been really interesting for me to feel like. That's where a block is.
Robyn Vogel: I think there's definitely there's definitely some shadow in there, and I'm
staying curious.
Robyn Vogel: But listening to
Robyn Vogel: oh, my God, I lost. Who that was? Kelly? Just a Kelly? Sorry. Just right, of course, just a moment ago.
It helped me so much to.
Robyn Vogel: because it is about like nourishing the body, and what the blocks are to loving, nourishing the body, which is such a big topic for me personally, and so I can see where my.
Robyn Vogel: it stirs a lot of emotion. Thank you, Kelly, for
Robyn Vogel: that feels
Robyn Vogel: supportive.
and
yeah, I guess I
Robyn Vogel: I have parts that are like blocking me from remembering what I was. Gonna say, cause I feel so intense like it's such a big piece of my life and my own work, and some similar resonance with what Kelly has shared in the past. And today. And it helps me to see that like that is what the gate is about is about nourishing your body. And like.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, like, what's in the way of that, and what beliefs, what fears, etc. I'm glad you went to the beliefs piece, because when you said fears, I thought, Oh, no, it's about beliefs. So of course it's about many things.
Robyn Vogel: anyway. So I think, well, I just I feel really grateful because I feel like the doors opening now to meet for me to see what that module is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, beautiful. I'm so glad. Yeah, it feels like you needed to kind of see the block for you. And then these pieces are coming through. Is it okay for us to take a minute and see what else is there right now on this? Okay, yes. So is it okay? To close your eyes?
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, so close your eyes and find that place in your body, Robin.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where all of this wisdom just came from the knowing that this is your work, and this is the work of this gate to to uncover the blocks around, nourishing the body and to support your heroes and nourishing their bodies more, where is this wisdom coming from today.
Robyn Vogel: It's coming from acknowledging that
Robyn Vogel: like, I've spent most of my life working on this myself. and it felt really overwhelming, like a topic felt. So it's a huge topic.
Robyn Vogel: and I think I was
Robyn Vogel: like, originally I was overwhelmed. I was like, I don't even know, Robin. I'm gonna pause. You cause. I didn't ask my question clearly enough. I'm sorry. Where in your body is the RAM by body? Oh, my heart, your heart! Okay, good.
Robyn Vogel: Focus on that wisdom in your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does that feel like in your heart right now?
Robyn Vogel: Well, it feels like a mix of gratitude and
Robyn Vogel: sadness, and like both mixed together. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm feeling that I'm feeling that, can we honor all of that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The gratitude and the sadness agreed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. you feel that
Robyn Vogel: beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask your heart and this wisdom and this combination of the gratitude and the sadness, because sometimes even sadness can motivate making impact on others, too. Right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What more it wants you to know about this gate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what you're gonna be sharing and teaching
Robyn Vogel: that the
that self-care is self care, slash self love is like.
Robyn Vogel: like the, you know, the biggest part of this journey and the
Robyn Vogel: the culmination of the
Robyn Vogel: actually, it's the Col. Oh, wow, okay, it's like this is probably obvious, but not to my brain. Yet the culmination of the 4 of the path that, taking them on it's like, that's the culmination of the emotional work and the limiting beliefs work and the other things.
Robyn Vogel: yeah.
Robyn Vogel: it culminates in that. It's like, because I called it beyond the body, like I think my mind was
okay.
Robyn Vogel: kind of stuck.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm feel I'm feeling the chills on that that feels really, really important.
Robyn Vogel: Good. Take another moment. Anything else that your heart wants you to know about that module
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, right now, I can feel that it's there's like a celebration in it, whereas before it was feeling like.
Robyn Vogel: I don't know. But now I feel like, Oh, that's that could be like a real
Robyn Vogel: celebration of the of the whole journey. And yeah.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, there's work to do in there. But it's also a celebration.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. So welcome. Thank you. I can't wait to see how it evolves. It's gonna be really powerful.
Robyn Vogel: It's funny. I even told those guys and they'll stop. But Khalido was there. And I was like, I'm not gonna even go there. I'm not gonna even like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like work on that right now.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather. And Emily.
Heather and Emily: yes, I was just thinking about you know, some different
Heather and Emily: activities or exercises, and I like to use like
Heather and Emily: negative images
Heather and Emily: to highlight statomas or blind spots.
Heather and Emily: And you know. So I'll pull up an image. That's just the negative, and
Heather and Emily: have you know the group. Try and guess what it is before I click the filter
Heather and Emily: or remove the filter and get the full color image.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that.
Heather and Emily: But I just I love using negative images.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah. And it relates to the like the the some of the pathways we looked at a few classes ago. Sometimes the way in is through the negative or through what you don't want. Right? Yeah. And then I love the the kind of the dramatic effect, then, of putting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the filter back in to see the full image and just kind of like, turn those ideas on their head. Really, really nice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And it's great. So I'm so glad that Kelly shared and that you shared, you know. because everything about images, right? So we can use photos in exercises
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can use. I was gonna share one of my exercises today. But Kelly's works just as well. But if they're similar, and that sometimes I use tarot cards, so you don't need to know anything about Tarot at all but in in this one example of this exercise it's some of you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): done this with me. We're looking at the phase of growth in a 4 phase cycle. There's initiation. There's growth, there's harvesting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there's death and letting go. And we're looking at growing projects. And why it's hard to grow particular projects and what growth feels like, and all the things. And what I what I do sometimes is, I have people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): choose 2 projects that they're working on, that they feel are not growing in the ways that they want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I give them a piece of paper where I have photographed, or you could do this on a screen. You could do this on zoom share where I have 6 or 9 different images of different taro cards.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I ask them for each of the situations that are in arrested growth. Or you're having, you know, like how they're growing, which Tarot Card reminds you of what growth feels like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for each of those right so that they pick 2 cards, and then I ask them other questions to help analyze the feeling in the card for them, so they can understand more about the growth so that they can find clues in the card of how they could move into that growth process in a better way, or with more flow, etc., they might dialogue with the card, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But anyway, I'm bringing up to say, there's lots of different ways that we can use images in exercises. And it is nice sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to use imagery, because images activate more than just the cognitive level. Whether it's a photograph, whether it's a taro, whether it's a drawing, it's it will also evoke the heart or or the spirit, etc.,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else anyone else want to share? Ideas that are coming forward for you? What's resonating? What? I just wanted to share 1 one other activity that
Heather and Emily: I do a lot with my
Heather and Emily: students. You can buy these just blank
Heather and Emily: white mass at like Michael's or hobby lobby and we get like magazines to cut out images or paints and things, but I have them decorate the outside of the mask like this, their self that they portray to the world. But then, on the inside of the mask, you know that that shadow piece
Heather and Emily: and then we work on strategies for integrating or Melding the 2, so that we don't have to have an imposter side in the shadow side.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's beautiful, I love it. Mask work is always so powerful, and I love how you're using the front and the back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so so nice! And then again, for everyone on a slowing it down level anytime when someone can do and and a body activating the body level anytime when someone can do a craft like when you do crafts in your group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's slowing it down. It's getting the body involved. It's not right, it's not just naming. This is the outside, and this is the inside, this, the it's the taking the time to explore it as they make the art, or do the craft.
That is part of the journey.
Heather and Emily: Yeah, we just opened a art exhibit. It's traveling throughout the State. Over the next 2 years. It's called finding hope within. And it's integrating art for healing trauma
Heather and Emily: and it's just an amazing exhibit. And it really does a lot of that
Heather and Emily: that somatic piece like you were saying, because, you know, even if they never had like a joyful experience. When you're creating a work of art that invokes that joy, your body
Heather and Emily: senses it and feels it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely. I love it. Such good work. Thanks for sharing that.
Heather and Emily: Yes, thank you. Oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who else either? What's resonating?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Inspired ideas that are coming forward? I think we have time for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one more lab case study. If somebody wants to bring that forward or else I'll I'll show you all do a breakdown of another exercise of one of mine. But I wanna first just make space for one of you to bring something forward. Yeah, Kathy.
Cathy Norris: Oh, so I didn't realize even what the topic was today. But I have just created also a a workshop and
Cathy Norris: and I'm already realizing.
Cathy Norris: Okay, II drafted the whole thing. And now I really need to look at it again. Well, I'll share it with you. This is awesome. I didn't really get the lab today. So so it's called manager emotions, no matter what for Hr professionals and
Cathy Norris: I
Cathy Norris: I think it's gonna be around 2 and a half hours. I want it to be
Cathy Norris: an in depth preview for my 5 week course online course, which is still not really group coaching.
Cathy Norris: But
Cathy Norris: what we're learning here. But it it is. It still goes more in depth. So I wanted to go deep into one of my modules. Okay, so
Cathy Norris: I have first have the intro, you know. Why, why do you care about managing your emotions? Why is it important to you
Cathy Norris: and and and have everyone share?
Cathy Norris: Why in the webinar? It's a virtual workshop, and then
Cathy Norris: and then I have a and then give them a can. I pause you, Kathy? So I'm assuming this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of the first solo work exercise. I think you came in after we looked at the 5 modes. But that's okay. So be. But I'm just assuming that you are. But in case you're not, we're just for everyone else. You're not gonna jump straight into that. You're gonna first be in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, presentation mode in the beginning and speak to all the things that we spoke about at the beginning of any, whether it's a whole program or a workshop. Right? You're gonna speak to what managing your emotions means.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why, it's so important specifically for people that work in Hr. What happens for people who work in Hr when they don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then what's possible when you do like, what? What are the what's the bigger vision for yourself, for your career? All that's possible
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you do? Yeah, thank you. I mean, I was using your template, and I actually
Cathy Norris: thought I'd have them share. They're why.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before that, what's possible? Oh, yeah, you I mean you can't as just like an intro like warm up you, you can for sure you want to in presentation mode, speak to it specifically. I will be saying
Cathy Norris: in general, why, and and a little bit about my why, very sure. And then why is it important for you, and not wanting them to go into depth. But just you know, hey, why are you taking this?
Cathy Norris: You
Cathy Norris: so they can introduce each other, too, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I have this few self assessment questions that I could just ask them. Sorry, II want to pause again, just for your opinion, for everybody else's. So sometimes it's fun to ask a question like that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before you talk right like before present, you know, as a warming things up and an icebreaker.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you want. If you're going to do that before your bigger intro. you want to think about how tight is the container in the very beginning, and what's going to be vulnerable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): too vulnerable for people right so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a on this particular topic. Like to just ask the open why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might before you, Norm, you know before you give your intro.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It might be too much for these Hr managers to be like. I lose my share. I want to stop doing that, or whatever it is, it might not. But the reason why I'm bringing it up is so you could do it exactly that way, and ask why, or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might be for this particular group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I call doing hand raisers. If you're gonna do something around the Y hand raisers before. So, in other words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): raise your hand. If one of the reasons why you're here is because you get upset with yourself after you have interactions with team members, and you kind of lost your stuff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Raise your hand. If one of the reasons why you're here is because sometimes you need to close your door, work sometimes and cry a little bit. Raise your hand, if right, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you make it a little light in the beginning, and give people because the the hand-raiser thing already starts to normalize. Cause you're saying, we all we a lot of us do this. So just raising. And right. So anyway, it's just an all, if you're gonna start with people sharing their why, before you speak to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's another way of doing it.
Cathy Norris: Thank you. I love those that that
Cathy Norris: that way. It's a little lighter. Yeah, as you said, and giving the examples, and and then people will identify with each other, and, you know, bring them in. That's great.
Cathy Norris: So then, then, I was going to you the next step in your template locate where they are. So I thought I would ask a few questions for them to write answers to their business
Cathy Norris: like rate yourself.
Cathy Norris: How often? Just an example, ipad! How often do you pay attention to how your feel I have user actually assess an assessment I use sometimes on a scale one to 5. I pay attention to how I'm feeling
Cathy Norris: at any given moment. It's easy for me to describe my feelings. Just few of things like that.
Cathy Norris: That's the little locate where they are. Okay.
Cathy Norris: And then addressing resistance, literally going through your template.
Cathy Norris: so
Cathy Norris: don't I bet you I can. You know I don't have the verbiage down, but avoiding emotions. So why, why are. You know this? Oh, I forgot to say that
Cathy Norris: in the intro it's gonna I mean, it's a bit managing. Emotions is really about
Cathy Norris: identifying your emotions. So that's really what we're gonna be doing this in this.
Cathy Norris: And so why don't you know? Why do you avoid your emotions?
Cathy Norris: why do you avoid your emotions, whether you're at beliefs about knowing what your emotions are. So you were talking about fears versus beliefs earlier. And for
Cathy Norris: I mean, actually, in my training often go into beliefs about emotions like, if I if I feel my emotion, I'll get lost in it, or it will take me way too long to identify my emotion. You know, of course, all the beliefs about
Cathy Norris: can't show our emotions at work. You know, there's so many beliefs, and I actually don't want to go too deep into this in this workshop. It just
Cathy Norris: just as as you have taught us, identify that there's could there probably have existence about even identifying your emotions. Okay, so that. And these are just again, all the intro to the the webinar. Okay, so I have 3 activities. The first activity is, let's focus on one so that we can really so pick the one that you want to look at the most. Hmm.
Cathy Norris: yeah, this is where I realize I know I need to just make sure that for each of these activities I want to make identify exactly why I'm doing it
Cathy Norris: which I should do before you've been talking about. Because I'm
Cathy Norris: I feel like I've identified these emotions to give.
Cathy Norris: II apologize. I'm I'm just very Meta. I'm sorry. But I'm think you know, I'm like.
Cathy Norris: I know, I created these 3 activities to for each one to go a little bit more in depth, a little deeper awareness.
Cathy Norris: I've identifying emotions.
Cathy Norris: and
Cathy Norris: so Aya. yeah, I almost don't know.
Cathy Norris: I I've I'm I'm starting to think that the they all 3 of them are important.
Cathy Norris: Well, the the last one I've done before. I've done 2 of them before.
Cathy Norris: I don't know which one I want to do. I'm sorry it's okay. You can any like, I was saying earlier. Any of them will be valuable. Whatever we look at so
Cathy Norris: typical. Hr. Challenges from my interviews with Hr. People and and and E. And they are truly challenges. They are things that Hr. Professionals have said. They feel challenged.
Cathy Norris: Bowels. So even even the challenges themselves.
Cathy Norris: they sound like challenges like, well, I'm always being interrupted, or
Cathy Norris: having a difficult conversation or terminating employees. Or PE. You know, the Hr role isn't understood by employees.
Cathy Norris: the analysts expectations they place on. Hr, so so I go through each of these. and how I do it in a live presentation is, I just show
Cathy Norris: one of those. And I say, what's your emotion about this?
Cathy Norris: Identify the emotions that come up for you.
Cathy Norris: I know I've done it. I've done it where they just write them in the chat, or they say them.
Cathy Norris: And I think, since this is the verse of 3 exercises. It will make sense
Cathy Norris: to have them
Cathy Norris: depending on the size of the people that were in it. write them in the chat definitely. But if there's not that many people just say them. It kind of depends on the group, too. Sometimes I mean, sometimes people start
Cathy Norris: saying them, and more people do. But so you know, sometimes people just feel more comfortable writing them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it sounds great. Before I comment on it, just Kathy, briefly, in a sentence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the second? What are they getting out of the second exercise? What are they getting out of the threerd? Where do you want them to end by the end of the day.
Cathy Norris: The
Cathy Norris: the each exercise is helping. The first 2 are
Cathy Norris: identifying emotions. So it's practice and identifying emotions. Yeah.
Cathy Norris: okay. And the river.
Cathy Norris: yeah. And the third is going to be
Cathy Norris: going deep into what? With one? One emotion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when you say, going deep. What do you want them to come out with?
Cathy Norris: With? Hmm.
that's a good question.
Cathy Norris: The end point of the journey
Cathy Norris: is to recognize situations.
Cathy Norris: how their emotions are affecting their energy, their mental state, as well as affecting their interactions with others. Just not awareness of
Cathy Norris: that. Oh, emotions are here, and they're affecting my work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, beautiful. So I'm gonna add a couple of pieces to this first one. They may. You may already have them in the second
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or third, but I think so. You can just not put them in the first, or they could be appropriate for the first. So I love this giving different scenarios, right? Because.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again, normalizing, they all have these scenarios. Each of them is gonna bring up emotion
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So you name this scenario and you ask them. What emotion
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does this bring up, as you already said, and yes, as much as they can share either in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or voice to voice? Great!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You don't have to do this with every scenario. But something that I'm thinking about is before you move on to the next scenario. Say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): typically, when this comes up, and you feel the anger, the sadness, the misunderstood. You know, whatever it is that you feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what happens next?
Cathy Norris: Right? What happens next for you, inner and outer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what are the things that you start telling yourself? And then what action? How do you? What? How do you react?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So that's creating awareness on how the emotion
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): impact
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So just that alone is, gonna get you further in this exercise right? Because it's it's not just creating. It's not just, oh, identifying. Yes, I feel anger, but it's it's now bridging the gap between. Okay, when I feel anger in that situation, this is how I react
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to others and to myself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And you might give different examples, especially of how I react to myself like, do you talk about it constantly? Dinner and then obsess about it. And right like they might be able to more easily identify. I snapped at that team member. But not necessarily, you know. Just wanna I'm saying, give them examples.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you want to go deeper and I don't know, you might be getting to this later in the thing, or you might not feel like this is appropriate for your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ideal client, but I'll just throw it in there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The next question can be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take a moment. Just notice what it feels like in your body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you're in that situation. right? So that they can just have some awareness of when they get that place in their body. What that is, what that emotion is. Sometimes people don't even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make a connection between the 2, and if they were open to it, and you wanted to take that. Take it a step further. You could say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from a high, from a higher place, not making that emotion wrong in any way, because emotions are are never wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what is it that you want to remember in that moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about that feeling?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just ideas? But to see what I'm I'm doing there to start to connect so that it's more than just identifying the emotion. But they can. They can see like what's happening when the emotion comes when they when they're not aware. And then how can how can they start to shift that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that end for you is
Cathy Norris: II like it very much. I'm providing practice, because just
Cathy Norris: to identifying emotions is
Cathy Norris: very hard for people. They're not used to doing it. So that's like the first 2 exercises are
Cathy Norris: like. The next one is just what what were your emotions last 24 h and have them shared breakout rooms just to identify the emotions. So. But I love that. And and I am. I'm seeing that
Cathy Norris: what I have tended to do is provide more exercises for practice, instead of how much I can get from one
Cathy Norris: active at that point.
Cathy Norris: and I do go deeper in that third one. But I love connect, you know even that. First.
Cathy Norris: I love what you've you suggested. So thank you very much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. You're welcome. Good. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone wanna share what? They're just learning from the conversation from Kathy's case. Study
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's coming together for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Probably more of just the slow it down go deep. But any. I'm wondering anything else.
Cathy Norris: I noticed that Tara suggested providing a list of emotions.
Cathy Norris: I think I've seen that. I'm sure I've seen the Nbc list, and I do provide for the second activity. I provided
Cathy Norris: huge list of emotions because it definitely is helpful to see a list.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Just to respond. I love the direction you're going with this Kathy and I loved what you were coaching on Joanna and just to share that I have a hr. Director that I work with. And as yours became like, Oh, yeah, that and that and that and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I. One thing that I just want to see from my experience of working with her is that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and I'm sure you know this cause. They're your people. But just the the vocab around emotions can be so limited, and she would have this experience in her body, and she would have this reactivity. But she wasn't able to actually connect what was going on. So I think
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): my sense is the more embodiment you can do and like just even learning to like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): even going further back like learning to recognize
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you're having an emotion, you know, and just noticing that feeling in the body. And that's that's a response to something. And like, it sounds so basic. But it it actually has been profound for her to actually recognize. She's having feelings. And it's okay to have feelings. So anyway, I just wanted to offer that up because I have such a close up version of working with emotion and getting connected in with the body with it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Love it, and I love the work you're doing, Kathy. I'm just thinking now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): God, Hr, people are part of the people who set cultures in corporations. What a different world it might be as the Hrp managers learn what you're teaching them. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so glad you're doing your work in the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kalita. I'm gonna give you guys will get a handout with the 4 teaching mode. So don't worry if you didn't get all of them. But Number 4 is full group, sharing and processing like what we're doing now and then. 5 is full group ceremony and experiential.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, you missed 3. Let's see what was 3. 3 was partner and small group sharing breakout rooms to share and process and be witness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, I'd love for everybody to write down. What are you taking away from our time today? And, Kelly? I know. I promised I'd answer your question at the end. I can hang on a couple extra minutes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with you. So what are you taking from our time together today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and well like. Give you a moment to answer that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): terracing the power of structure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now you're welcome, Kathy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's never a shortage of content ever. That's yes. When you go deep there is never a shortage of content.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Annelise, did you want to share a takeaway?
Annelise Pesa: rather. I have a quick question. I don't know if. Give me a moment. Yeah, yeah, give me a moment. I'll get to Kelly, and I'll get to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Next question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's your next step
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you want to work on with your curriculum? What's your very next step? You've got to get it done?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But let me make sure I'm I'm speaking the truth here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, you have a get it done. Session this week on Thursday, 12 to 1 30, whether you're able to make
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that session? 12 to 1 30 Eastern, or you're gonna have your own. Get it done. Session. What do you want to work on?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's your next step?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Robin, drink water. and Russ.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can hang on for about 10 min. So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, I know yours is gonna be like a little bit longer, Annelise, you said, your question is a quick key, so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): why don't you go?
Annelise Pesa: Yeah, John? It's 2 really quick question. One is obviously, when we are online and we can't do the somatic, or, you know, exercise where people move around and things.
Annelise Pesa: Do you think? I mean, although we do, it's always 100% effective. But you know, like, generally speaking, do you think that
Annelise Pesa: it could be like a choice between doing it live or online
Annelise Pesa: that the exercises are so much more effective. When you do, you know, we are in the same room and together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they are often because it's just a tighter container. But that being said, I've had people do movement exercises and and all of that online. And I think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. Some of the things is number one. I just speak to it right, I said. Pretend we're in the room together, and I speak to all the resistances, also that anyone would have whether we were in the room together or not. This might feel silly, you know, like all the things you might not be comfortable in movement, you you know it like, it's okay. And of course this is by invitation, and you know, speak to why it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what they will get if if they're willing to do it sometimes with movement.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it's a little bit of a looser container online. I'll say to people, if if you prefer to close your Ca, to turn your camera off for this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not an issue when we're together in the room, because it's a tighter container. But sometimes online it just it's helpful for people to, so I'll give people that option. But I wouldn't shy away from doing the movement. You just have to set it up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have to normalize it. You have to speak to the resistance. You have to build investment in it and give good instructions. All all the things we've been looking at.
Annelise Pesa: Okay.
Annelise Pesa: thank you. Now, that's very helpful. And the second one is for my type of clients given. They are less keen to share, and things, you know. Sometimes when I do my programs, I, you know, like I
Annelise Pesa: ask questions, and
Annelise Pesa: you know I have to ask 2 or 3 times, or like, I don't know how to, you know. Like, for example, in this group, people are very vulnerable, very keen to share with in that environment, maybe also because they are colleagues. So they're less
Annelise Pesa: any suggestion for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So there's all it. There's always gonna be resistance to sharing number one. And again, it's all the tools that we've learned. You speak to the resistance. But beforehand, right? The beginning of the course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you also speak to why, it's important and what people are gonna get if they share. And you know, if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wonder if there is a way even to connect it to some of the results of the program like to say, you know, lawyers especially because we have to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): think so much and present ourselves in a very certain way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We often don't let ourselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be fully expressed in all of we are, and then we miss out on that because we don't get to have all of ourselves, so we don't get to be, you know. We only get to be seen in this one way. We don't get to be seen, for all of we are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd like for us to use the space in this program, not just for you to learn all the things, but for you to have an opportunity to express more of you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your sake.
Annelise Pesa: That is beautiful. Thank you so so much. I'm just gonna make some notes on that. Thank you, Joanna.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you're welcome. all right, Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you so much. Shauna. Yeah, I think I just was getting stuck on the what do I do now that I'm not doing this 6 month every other week thing, and which opens with a deep dive retreat and closes with a deep dive retreat. And I'm just trying to kind of look at. How do I peel it back? And also
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like, not even am I doing an intro? Is it just more of like an introduction to what this could be, and sort of taking them down a path. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): how do I do the pricing? And I think the weekly works are doing like 2 to 3 weeks on one week off for integration.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in part because my people look at it. They're like, Oh, that's too many weeks. I can't do every week. And so just. But I also feel like every other week isn't really effective.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, II would do more to either. 2 weeks on one week off, or 3 weeks on one week off. Yeah, I was thinking, 3 week on, 3 weeks, on sorry, 3 weeks on one off 3 weeks on one off, and then 3 weeks to complete 1011 weeks. So okay. And then, in terms of
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): pricing like, should II kind of have in mind what I would have priced for the 6 month thing. But it's a different container. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like, What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do you? Wanna what do you want? What do you want it to be?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think my brain is like, well, nobody's gonna pay for for that. Just we're not tattooing it on your body just yet. Just what's what's the number that nobody is gonna want to pay for, but that you want it to be.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I mean, I would love it to be 1,500 or 12 to 1,500.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But in my mind I keep going back to 8, 95, and I also just feel into accessibility and wanting it to be excessive, accessible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you know, the first time I did a 12 week thing, I charge 495, and I was like, no way, never, I guess, really important to you, Kelly. Reserve one or 2 scholarship spots
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): at 8, 95. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I would say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 1,200 at minimum, and if you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): allow yourself to feel stretchy without it, feeling like I'd rather die than do that closer to the 1,500,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I would keep it in the 12 to 1,500 range. You could do 1,500 with an early bird of the 1,200 or 1,300 for or 1,800 with, you know, 1,300 early bird something something like that. But I think that you're not gonna be walking your talk
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you're gonna end up drained. If it's anything less than 1,200, and I would prefer it to be a little.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it feels right for you, I think it should be a little higher than that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, that that. Yeah, it feels better. And I'm also just aware that as I grow
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I can. I can shift it. But right now it's probably gonna be a smaller group than would be
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what I'm visioning.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But I really that feels so good to say I have one to 2 scholarship spots at 8 95, and then, as you grow, you can have more right, but it has to sustain you first. What were you saying earlier? Like? Nourish yourself first to make more impact has to sustain you first for you to be able to give more price cuts to people
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): alright, and then do their private sessions, or don't do private sessions, I mean. should I off in the past. When I've done the group thing, I've always done envisioning a session at the beginning, and then I started, including one at the end as well, or like a wrap up one at the end.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sorry you know what I'm when I'm saying it needs to be. II am allowing for your full agency. I'm just saying what I want for you. If you're gonna do a private, then it has to be 1,500.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay, okay? So then I could. So I could. 14. No, lower.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay. So if I include the private visioning with each person, it has to be the 14, I mean that that feels better, too. I know what it takes to go into it also, I mean, it's a helpful thing for me as well, because it gives me such a great pulse on the group. And I and I love doing the private work. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and it's fair to get paid for it. Okay, cool. That's great. Thank you very much more than a 3 month payment plan. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): wonderful. Thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Everyone sending lots of love. Send me your work. I want to see it. Have a good rest of your day.