Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi, everybody!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give me one sec. We'll give everyone a minute to get in and settle.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take a moment to bring ourselves fully forward and get settled
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and centered. If it's comfortable for you to close your eyes, I invite you to close your eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If not, I invite you to keep them open, and to set the intention to go inwards.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's take these next few moments to give ourselves the gift
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of arriving
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and of bringing ourselves present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it might be helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to notice your body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this morning or this afternoon, depending on where you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without judgment. Notice where your body is at right now how it's feeling.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe sending some love to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the places that are needing and wanting a little love right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then. I want to invite you to use the breath
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to take up more space in your body, whatever that means, for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): use the breath
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to take up more space so that you can take up more space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and take up more space in your hips.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You take up more space in your back and in your spine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take up more space in your belly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): come to inhabit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your solar plexus.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take up space, and remember your throat. your neck.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take up space and the bottoms of your feet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give yourself permission to show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly as you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give yourself permission to open up, to receive what you are meant to receive today exactly as you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No need to do anything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to receive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then I invite you to connect in with your heart, and you can place a hand on your heart if you'd like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Be with your heart. your dear, dear heart. for a moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your precious heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): honor your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for all that it holds.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and honor your heart for leading you to make time and space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you and your work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): over these 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a decision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? There's so many other things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the to-do list.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Honor your heart for making this decision for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then, as you're ready, if your eyes aren't open and open them up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take a moment to see all of the other beautiful humans
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that are here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so happy to be with all of you for these 3 days. I'm so happy that we have this time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am so excited for what we are going to cover and experience and journey through together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for these 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So for this retreat, we're going to shift gears a little bit and look specifically at facilitation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): up until this point, we've definitely looked at facilitation and leadership in different ways in life, changing courses. But our main focus has really been on curriculum development, thought, leadership, development exercise development up until this point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Facilitation is absolutely related to all of that. But it's also kind of in its own category. Facilitation is how we show up to lead our curriculum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and our exercises. It's about who we're being as leaders. It's about how we respond to our students as they experience and journey through the curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's about how we craft community.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's about how we create relationships within the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Facilitation is about how we navigate when people have confusion
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or push back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's about how we respond when things don't go as planned.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and oftentimes things don't go as planned.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it's also about how we take care of ourselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in all of it, right and so much more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when it comes to, as with everything in life, almost everything, when it comes to facilitation and leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some of it is about content. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I mean by that is. facilitate this like this, and here are some steps to facilitate that. Like that. Right? We can call that the outer pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but also a very big piece of effective and masterful and ethical facilitation and leadership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is about the inner right is about as practitioners, our fears.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our beliefs. how we're showing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who we're being. And of course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): over the last few months we've already done a lot on this. We've looked a lot at energetics. We've looked at how to set containers. We've looked even at some of this within exercise creation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But there's, of course, a lot more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And while we can't cover all of it in the next 3 days, because there is so much, and also because so much of facilitation and leadership dovetails with coaching skills. And I take years to, you know, train people on coaching skills. But all that being said, we're gonna cover a lot over these 3 days, both with the inner work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the outer work. And just to give you a little bit of a preview. So you know where we're going
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today? We are gonna do a lot of work around
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): creating an equal playing field as you facilitate, and in your containers, empowering yourself and the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then in the afternoon, we're gonna build on all of that by looking at how to create safety in your programs and in your containers, and what it means to be trauma informed. In your groups
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tomorrow, we're gonna have some fun defining and claiming what your unique leadership style is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's gonna be a pretty, I hope, pretty revealing and then we're gonna look at. I said I was gonna share this in a supplement. But I worked it into our curriculum for these 3 days. We're gonna look at how to activate accountability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your group programs, and we'll look at some other topics related to that. And then on Sunday we're gonna go deeper into resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then we're gonna also look at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitating shares
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what to do when people ask a doozy questions kind of like, just different issues when it comes to facilitation. So we're gonna have a lot of a mix of inner work and outer work and kind of look at they're all gonna come together. They're all related. But we're gonna kind of get a lot of different things. I think it's gonna be really fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just logistics, wise and facilitator note, right? We've kind of looked at this. But I just want to share part of containers for people being clear. Part of us. A tight container is people being clear on the logistics?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Because if people are like weird with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): meeting, then, or for this retreat, what are the times, or when are we gonna break? Or right? It's been the. It's harder to settle in to the container when there's some confusion. So think about that. You know, I've modeled that in lots of different ways, and life changing courses, giving you logistics along the way, reminding you of logistics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It is actually a transformational piece it helps with the transformation in the container. So I sent an email out about this. But just as a reminder, I really.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I really took note in our marketing retreat. How going to 6 was a little long for some of us, and for some of our nervous systems
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might be the time of year. It might be that there's so much going on in the world right? Oh, who knows? And I know for some of you your energizer bunnies like me, and you can also go until 6. So in order to kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): support everyone. What we're gonna do for this retreat is the official curriculum is gonna go I through 4 30 today and tomorrow instead of 6
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sunday, where it'll go till 3, like it always was going to do. But so if by 4 30 you're feeling tired, your nervous system is done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You won't miss anything to go and take care of yourself for the rest of the day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're like. No, I want more, Joanna. You said there was going to be more. We will. I will hang out as long as you want, until 6, for those of you that have questions want to brainstorm, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sound? Good. Yeah. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do? Yeah, Kelly, saying, thanks for permission for those who have Fomo. I get it. So that's why we're I get. I'm hanging out for, you know, until 6. If you want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, our marketing retreat will break about every 90 min, so we'll have a bathroom break, and just like a bio nervous system, break in, you know. So about 1230 Eastern, and then we'll take our longer break from about 2 to 3 Eastern give or take Sunday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Our schedule will be a little different, since we're ending at 3, so we'll take a couple of small breaks, but not a longer one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tomorrow I will share more about advanced death. The special rate for you. and you know we'll spend a little bit of time on that also, I'm gonna spend a little bit of time on that as modeling for you on how to make an invitation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end of your program into the next one. If it's appropriate and then we'll spend our last training call looking more deeply at how to make
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): invitations for people to continue working with us. So it's a good opportunity for me to share about advance for those of you that are interested, and also do you to do some teaching and modeling?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I did also cause I feel like there's a little bit of anxiety about this. So I did just want to mention this now. I know for some of you you're like, Oh, my gosh! We're ending in a few weeks, and I haven't submitted everything that I wanted to submit yet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a couple of you. It's I haven't submitted anything yet, and I know also for a couple of you, it's like, Oh, my gosh, everybody is so much farther ahead than I am. Right? So okay, so first, let's let's just normalize. No, nobody is like 100 complete on their curriculum. Everybody is in different places.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and guess what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every one of us have has different rhythms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Every one of us has had different things come up in our lives. I know some of you like me were taken out for a bit. You had covid in the house, or illness, or something happened right? So first thing first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the worst way to get things done is by beating yourself up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or telling yourself you're not good enough, or telling yourself you didn't do it right right. All the things. The best way to move forward and get things done
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is to have self-compassion to love yourself to know that you are in your own rhythm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If there's been some resistance to also create, you know, call yourself out on that with love.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here are just some things I want to say about, you know, logistically, on all of this number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Officially. you have until the end of the month. So beyond our last training, call to submit your curriculum to me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I highly recommend. Don't wait for it to be perfect. Don't wait for it to be complete, especially if you're like this is a mess.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I don't want to share it. That is even more reason to share it, so that I can help you move forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so that's number one. number 2. And I'm hesitating to say this because I don't want this to be an opening for an excuse to not get it done by the end of the month.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, and I'll trust everybody to take responsibility for themselves on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you've had circumstances and you can't get it to me by the end of the month.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take February.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Send it to me sometime in February. I don't wanna leave anybody hanging. I am here. I wanna support you as much as I can. Okay, so don't use it as like, alright, I'm not gonna work on it now, because I have another 6 weeks or 8 in 8, 9 weeks. Right? So do not that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but truly like, if you need more time, and if you need more time. I still recommend sending something to me in January. I'll give you some feedback, and then submit to me the next iteration in February.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that feel good for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I ask you a couple of questions for journaling to get us started.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kind of to get to get in, and I'll make a facilitation note on this, too. These are kind of intro questions for retreats. You know anything that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one day, 2 day, 3 day to 3 days versus 2, 90 min, or 2 h, or even 3 h, before we get into our meet of our work. I almost always ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some easy questions for journaling, for sharing, just to to start to like, take us into the journey, to start thinking, to start connecting with each other with ourselves, and and with the material. It's kind of like a little bit of the next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): steps in right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here's some questions I'd love for you to journal on first one. What about? We were only 2 weeks into 2024 for some of you. It might be like me the first 2 weeks, just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sickness in the house.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My kids have been unexpectedly home because of whether nothing has worked 2 weeks right. But even so, if that's where you're at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or because of that, what about 2024? Do you wanna acknowledge, your honor? So far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so acknowledging and honoring what I mean by this for those of you that have been through safer depths. You know what I mean by this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): next question I'm going to ask is, are there any celebrations yet for 2024. We're not there yet. Acknowledge, and honor means like for me. I'd say I want to acknowledge that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's been a hard 2 weeks. John had covid and we got through it right. But I just want to acknowledge that that's been hard. Or I want to honor that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I really had to step up a lot in the household right? And that meant that I was distracted in other ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what about 2024? So far. Do you wanna acknowledge an honor
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're usually very quick to judge, but not so quick to honor.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if you can add to that inquiry.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do you want to celebrate?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What, from the last 2 weeks inner outer work, personal home?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Would you like to celebrate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like another couple moments with that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's another question. I'll ask it, and then I'll explain a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are your facilitation strengths
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you know of. So whether you've facilitated a group before or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can identify some of these. So a facilitation strength might be that. You're really good at bringing community together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're really good at thinking on your toes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you. A facilitation strength is you're great at listening right? And you can. You can hear quickly when people share or have a question or a concern.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe a facilitation strength for you, as you're really good at connecting the dots when you're giving instructions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you. It's you are magical and even with the most simplest of exercises you you bring kind of magic and mystery and wonder
to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It can be anything. So whether you've facilitated yet or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are some of your facilitation strengths, and we all have different ones. By the way, like none of us ever, myself included, are ever gonna be a hundred percent on every facilitation strength out there, right? Cause we're each unique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We each have our our own
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things that we bring.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hey, Don? Glad you're here. We're just doing some
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): intro questions, and I'll put them back in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another question for everybody to consider.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are some of your concerns.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fears, or gaps when it comes to facilitation right? As much as you can know right now. So an example of a concern might be you know, I'm scared that the group is gonna be out of control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm scared that I'm not. Gonna you know. Someone's gonna keep on talking and talking. And I I'm not gonna know what to do as a facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a concern might be, or a fear might be, you know, I'm concerned that we're gonna go really deep, and that it's gonna be too deep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some people. A gap might be. You know I haven't historically been great at creating community or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): being on time in terms of ending time. Alright. So whatever comes up for you just as we tow dip
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now. What are some of your concerns, fears, or gaps when it comes to facilitation?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe there's a worry that someone who's not really appropriate for the group and can't be well served by the program might come in. And then you don't know what to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jenna's saying, I think he just said all of my right. So take a minute on that. What wants to come forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm asking for awareness, and also, in case they don't cover some of the things you know, as we have time for. QA. Over the days that you can ask about particular situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take another moment with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm gonna send you off into breakout rooms for a few minutes to share what's coming through so far. It'll be mostly groups of 3, and you'll have 3 min each to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and a couple of things to note about this. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Earlier in the week I dropped into your member center a resource sheet on breakout rooms and also managing the chat. So just so, you know, that's there. It's got a lot of ideas and tips for breakout rooms and facilitation of chat. All of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from a facilitation point of view.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a lot of times. People don't want to go into breakout rooms, particularly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, in the beginning of a retreat, or if they're not feeling well, or you know, like all the things right, there can be resistance. Some some people are excited to just go in and other people there's resistance. II sometimes have resistance to go into breakout rooms as a participant.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So first, I just want to normalize that. And from a facilitation point of view, it's really important for us to be aware of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and to speak to it a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to also let people know that if they really can't in that moment they can't right if it's just not appropriate for them. But oftentimes the resistance can be overcome. Somebody is, you know, people are willing. It's just about speaking to the resistance, and then to why it could be valuable
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to go into the breakout room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so we know as facilitators. We saw this so much in our marketing retreat for those of you that are there. The breakout rooms were some of the best parts of the whole retreat. There was, it was the opportunity to share, to be seen by by members of the community, to get ideas, to understand yourself better, to understand others better. So much magic comes from having the opportunity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to speak, to share, to be seen, to be heard, and to see and hear others and hold space for them right? So just an important thing to know is a facilitation, and also hopefully, if you have some resistance to going into the breakout room right now. That helped, though, of course, as I said, if you really can't, can't. So you'll have 9 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): total And so about 3 min. A person, if you're in a group of 2, you'll have a little more than 4 min a person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so enjoy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and is just share what came through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Welcome back! Welcome back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sue. Did you eject yourself out by mistake? Yeah, I see here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your other people are still in there. I was about to speak.
La!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the one thing with the it's like it pops up. And then some people.
Amy Barfield Martin: yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): welcome back everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So hopefully. That was helpful and nourishing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have a few minutes I'd love to hear from a couple of you. Anything that feels important in terms of what's come through so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina.
tina ghahramani-singh: Alright. Can you hear me now? Yes. okay.
tina ghahramani-singh: thank you, Joanna. Ii really just loved the shares. It made me know that
tina ghahramani-singh: I'm you know. I'm not the only one that's tripped up with
tina ghahramani-singh: facilitation on some level right? Cause a lot of times, I mean, I facilitate alone. I don't like co-facilitate yet.
tina ghahramani-singh: and so II think, with Veronica and Cecilia. When I sh I heard her their shares, I found a common thread between mine
tina ghahramani-singh: and I learned from their shares like. Oh, I can work on that as well, you know, so like for me, right? So like for me, my facilitation,
tina ghahramani-singh: strength or intuition, and creating a container of safety and vulnerability. I'm pretty strong there, but I really my weaknesses is I
tina ghahramani-singh: need to a lot I need to allow the group to
tina ghahramani-singh: move if the let. How do I say this? I don't have to follow the curriculum to the Ti can pivot. I can flow more. I need help with that, because I'm so a type I'm so like.
tina ghahramani-singh: get this done. I wrote it out. I want to follow it. And then I'm like, no like you need to be in the moment. This is what it's about. Like you're like, you gotta grab the moment. So that's that's what II really wanna focus on more. And I feel like you do such a great job with that, Joanna. So I watch you. And I'm like, Oh, I can see she's like moving and flowing and changing, possibly the curriculum. So I just need a little bit of help on that. Something like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, beautiful. I'm so glad you're bringing it forward because you're not the only one will. And and it's good for me to know that. That's, you know, a piece that's moving through. One thing I would say, for now Tina is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you take a moment and write down and actually share with us. What's what's the fear that comes up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that holds you back from being in flow and going with the flow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And for anyone else that feel that is resonating with what? Tina sharing, ask yourself that same question. Right? What's the fear of the belief that has you be like? II can't go with the flow. I have to stick to the curriculum. I can't right. What is that?
tina ghahramani-singh: You all I'm gonna share right now.
tina ghahramani-singh: Yeah. As you said that I could feel like an angst coming up, and it's like the fear of not giving enough. Not like giving them all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, okay, E. Everyone just like if you can raise your hand on the camera, or whatever. If sometimes you have that fear, too, I'm scared. I'm not gonna give enough, right? And then maybe it gets expressed in different ways. Maybe, like Tina, it gets it's expressed as I have to do every single little thing in the curriculum, or maybe you end up adding even more to the curriculum or going over
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time. Right? So, so you know this. This is a thing for sure. Right? So, Tina, just even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from what you know now, your higher wisdom. What do you know about that belief?
tina ghahramani-singh: I know it's it's not true, because
tina ghahramani-singh: on, on a higher wisdom.
tina ghahramani-singh: I know that everything that comes through me is exactly as it's supposed to be.
tina ghahramani-singh: For that moment I like, I'm very spiritual. So I know this in my faith background. And so
tina ghahramani-singh: I don't know why I why, I forget that.
tina ghahramani-singh: you know, like it's all divine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that. So? Yeah, you forget it, cause we all forget in those moments when we go into fear. It's fine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What can you do, Tina, to be more in connection with that higher wisdom that you just shared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): especially when you go into leading. Yeah, I think I just need to slow down
tina ghahramani-singh: so that I can hear the higher wisdom when I'm teaching.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, I love that right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So slowing down so that your nervous system is more able for you to hear, to be connected for you to be connected to the divine too right, and for you to be able to hear the wisdom that's coming through versus the fear thoughts that are coming through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that, and then I'll just toss this to you if it's helpful, and this is one of my practices.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Before you go to facilitate literally the few minutes before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take intentional time to slow down to be in your body. especially since this higher truth is about the divine, and I do this, too, to connect with spirit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right to to call in spirit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I often before going in, I ask. I ask things of spirit, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remind me that it's not about me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Speak through me. act through me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let everything that happens, and all the ways I show up, be in the highest for everybody in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and let me be in the moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also often say, and let me be nourished by all of this and have a ton of fun, as I'm doing it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. But just to do that also beforehand. it can help you slow down. It help can help get you. Be in your body and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remember the the the divide exactly what you're saying, right? And so that you don't have to stick so much to everything, and you can go with the flow.
tina ghahramani-singh: So helpful. Should I do that with the group, or just by myself, the calling in spirit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I do it usually by myself. But if it feels important to do it with the group that's beautiful.
tina ghahramani-singh: that's so helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I yeah, I don't know why I forgot to do that. That's why I'm part of this group. We it's right. We all forget. So I'm so glad that you're bringing that forward, and we'll also work on this in different ways. Do. I do have some of that written down that I've shared before, not here in Lcc. But I'll dig that up and I'll I'll get that for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then facilitator throughout these 3 days I'm just gonna keep on getting Meta to and point out facilitation pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So number one, you know just what Tina was sharing right about the breakout room and how it helped normalize things for her. How it helped her. See, she's not alone how it helped her understand certain threads in terms of what she's struggling with right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We always want to remember the community does as much for the the group transformation as we do as facilitators. It is not all on us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a group. We want to leverage the most powerful thing which is the group. It is the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? If you all noticed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as as I was holding space within for Tina, and for all of us. I did a little thing to help leverage that group piece even more, I said. Everybody raise your hand if you can resonate with what Tina says.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That is the the purpose of doing that sometimes is a few reasons. Number one right for everybody to be even more engaged. I could feel we were all engaged anyway, right but for and then to normalize and so and so that the also the person that's sharing is like, I am. I'm not alone in this right. And we're not all alone in this. We're in this together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful things. Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: Good morning, everyone.
Nina von Feldmann: So I was the last to share. And what one of my
Nina von Feldmann: strengths and facilitation is that I feel I'm very intuitive, and I'm really connected to a magical force, and it guides my life, and it guides my life in synchronicity.
Nina von Feldmann: And so III. One of my strengths is that I pay attention to patterns, and that's served me in my practice and in my cre, in my creations.
Nina von Feldmann: And I was just sharing that life has just hit me from left field so hard like it has knocked me off my orbit.
Nina von Feldmann: and and I'm in a pretty strong fear, mode and survival mode. I mean, it's just like panicking, almost, and I mean it's really acute right now. And well.
Nina von Feldmann: the funny thing was, since I was the last one to share. I was literally saying my one of my powers is that one of the things I want to acknowledge is that I'm able to stay in my joy I'm able to still tap into my innate joy amidst this crazy experience. And then I said, But I actually want to just disappear. And I did that. And then it clicked me out of the room, and I'm like, Oh, thank you. Spirit it, the synchronicities.
Nina von Feldmann: I'm just. I just wanna acknowledge this. This is the honoring of this, that this, the magic is so high and the synchronicity so strong, that I'm just gonna continue to fall back on trust that I can actually do everything I've set out to do, and what I was sharing is that life is hitting me so hard. And and I'm in this program right now just to absorb all of it because I didn't wanna lose the chance to learn from you cause you came so highly recommended. I didn't
Nina von Feldmann: have a program outlined, but that program outline. I have multiple ones. But right now I'm in life so hard that I know what's happening right now is going to inform the program that I'm about to bring out into the world. So it's no.
Nina von Feldmann: it's no mistakes. I just wanna honor that I'm glad that you are, and I honor that with you, and I can really feel the truth of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you're sharing, and and also the joy that you mentioned, too. I know there's there's many things that II really feel I can feel that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Yes, thank you. So for me.
Cecilia Kremer: There was something that was shared in my group that I had in my list, and I didn't have time to voice. But I want to voice it now as sort of an invitation to, as I really appreciate how you
Cecilia Kremer: facilitate and point out like and role model for us.
Cecilia Kremer: And one thing that is really alive, and that I wanna pay attention to is bringing more magic to my facilitation.
Cecilia Kremer: So there's a part of me.
Cecilia Kremer: I know that it's not just about me, you know. I can only offer possibilities, and if people are open, then it becomes magic. So I have that awareness. I know that for me, like story telling
Cecilia Kremer: and drawing have been things so like effect and fun
Cecilia Kremer: have been things that have created magic.
Cecilia Kremer: But it it still feels to me
Cecilia Kremer: that it's
Cecilia Kremer: it's like in the moment that I wasn't kind of intentionally
Cecilia Kremer: planning or making the invitation. So anything that you can bring up like, hey, this, this is the moment where magic could happen, you know, that would be really helpful for me, because I wanna design it, you know, and and make be more intentional about bringing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, II so appreciate that. And I'm glad you're bringing it forward. and you may or may not like what I'm about to say next. So you know. Just check it out and see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Part of the magic
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is the not planning for it. Right? So exactly what you said that those
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most magical moments are what's happening in the moment. And I'm gonna guess. And we're gonna look at this over these 3 days. I'm gonna guess, Cecilia, that's because you are so present in those moments. You are being all of you. And you know for each of us, the way magic looks in our groups is gonna look different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): based on the strengths that we are bringing forward. Right? So we can plan for some of it in terms of how we create exercises and how we create rituals, and we've obviously looked a lot at that. And I'll I'll pull out some more as per your request.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the truth is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the magic is in the facility who we are, being as facilitators does that land for you.
Cecilia Kremer: It lands. I appreciate that very much. I'm connecting with the energetics piece that you just mentioned like before planning. I know that is important to me, and I wanna
Cecilia Kremer: make more time and and and space for that.
Cecilia Kremer: What also came through. And II like what you said that sometimes is not by design.
Cecilia Kremer: but II think I do need to pay attention when it's happening. Cause. I don't think I'm appreciating that. Yeah, I just got shuls when you said that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pay attention when it's happening. And then also, this is a great practice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in general. after a class or a retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take 1015, 20 min, and write down what were the magical moments, what? What was happening to create those magical moments. What was I believing right like? What a a. Any! All of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that you have even more awareness to for them, for the parts of it that aren't in the mystery that just come up spontaneously right? So that you have more of that information.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. And Jen.
Jennifer: Hi, my Internet is a little spotty. So I might have turned off my video. But
Jennifer: I am so happy to be here. I
Jennifer: I feel like I'm I'm one of those people that you're speaking to, and thank you, by the way, for speaking to that, just, you know, if we need some extra time, and she's like, Oh, she's talking to me. I so appreciate listening to everyone shares. And you're right. I was like
Jennifer: about to brush my teeth for that breakout room. I was like, Okay, fine. I'll just like put down my toothbrush and showed up. And II feel like we're in one giant breakout room, you know, just the way you facilitate and cultivate space. I've just resonated with everyone that has shared already, and
Jennifer: I'm just like, Oh, my God, I'm not alone. It's been
Jennifer: yeah, like, you've had a lot. Yeah, it's been a lot. And just, you know, like Nina shared. And and
Jennifer: some of the ladies in in my breakout room like it's been
Jennifer: like what the 2,024, and it just like it. I thought that I was getting my butterfly wings, and I'm like, Oh, here we go. I'm gonna step into this portal with my butterfly wings, and I realize like
Jennifer: it's okay to still be in the cocoon surrendering. Yes, I am.
Jennifer: I am doing it. And I feel like, yeah, just that. It's the process of becoming. And I'm trusting in that and
Jennifer: what? I think her name is Heather Newcombe, one of my my breakout room teammates said
Jennifer: was just so beautiful. And it's like, Yeah, yeah, I know. But just the way she said it was just like so deep and real about.
Jennifer: listen like you can't force things. And just yeah, you gotta take how it is like we could never really plan enforce. But we can just do what we can and not just like
Jennifer: I just needed it. Just the way she said it, and
Jennifer: it's so true.
Jennifer: it's so true like
Jennifer: that is really the magic, and I know that it's integrating so deep into myself, and I know, like I kind of asked for this from God, and here we are. So
yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): seeing you in all of it. You know it's been tough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I just I love what you're saying right? The cocooning is part of the getting your wings process. It's not as sexy, but it is it. That is, that is the process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, honoring you and loving you and all of it. I'm so glad you're here.
Jennifer: Thanks, Joanna. so inspired.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. So let's take a moment. and I wanna invite everybody to set an intention. 2 intentions for these 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you have been with me before, you probably know the deal.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The first intention is, what is, what is it that you want to receive?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): By the time we're done you might not know fully yet. It might change through our journey right. But by the time we're done on Sunday. what? What is your intention for walking away
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? What do you want to walk away with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and please share in the chat. What is it that you want to walk away with? What's your outer intention for these 3 days it can change. You can be not totally clear, but for as much as you know now.
Kellita Maloof: Will we set outer and inner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we're gonna go to? Inner. Okay? Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And please share in the chat. What is it that you want to walk away with? What's your outer intention for these 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or robin confidence and skills to restart the 2 groups that you previously led.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful fall
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): definitely the place for that this weekend
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): virgin inspiration. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for David to deepen into your facility, facilitation skills to make nourishing the heart match, or the most magical one. Yet yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Essie, a deeply felt blueprint that you can imprint on your own work. I feel that beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Darlene. Specific actions you can take to up level your facilitation skills in your 2 current programs, beautiful and Darlene. If there are any specific questions that you have from things that have come up in those programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): definitely ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Caroline to be present to receive what you need during this time. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good little bit of an inner intention there, too, for Anika, more clarity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Amy. Various skills on how to handle various situations. And Amy, again, I'm going to name a lot. But if there are others that anyone can think of as we, you know, move through. Please ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Sharon. Community building skills and challenging scenarios. Good for Khalida. Receive a model for teaching facilitation. I love that. Yes, cause you're going into teaching facilitators.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, and I love it. Cause a little some of the pieces in your curriculum. I was like, I was so excited when I was reading. It's like she's gonna find in the 3 days, too, and you'll find your own ways of doing them. Yes, better appreciate your own facilitation style. Yes, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful, all of these beautiful, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, if you haven't yet identified an inner intention, please do that now. And that is how do you want to show up for these 3 days what is most important for you? What is the best way for you to show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to receive what you're wanting to receive on the outer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So maybe for you, it's with curiosity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe, for you. And inner intention is to turn all of your email and social media endings off
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right so that you can be present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is so? What is that? An inner intention for you, so that you can best receive the outer takeaway that you want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalite curious and open
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Deva being present, keeping your camera on listening more deeply.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone else want to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sc. To create space in your heart for divine confidence. Beautiful! I love that, and big, believing, open heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Kate to honor the commitment you made to be here and play full out. Yes, be present with yourself or Cecilia to be present and attentive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): her Nina's often present and open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly being open to receive new ideas. Beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful.
So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. And Khalid I knew going in. I now know you'll take care of yourself in all the ways that you need to. So take a moment, everyone, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): don't just have the intention. Be something you wrote down on the piece of paper. Take a moment and really take in your intention, maybe set it in your heart or your belly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make it real for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and by these act.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and by our intentions we name this space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): over these 3 days. safe and sacred.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May it be a safe space for us to go deep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into looking at ourselves and our power!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May it be a sacred space for us to learn the exact facilitation skills that we need? Next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): together, we are a living, breathing circle of transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna talk about power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And for those of you that have been through sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the ways that we speak about our
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is, we look at the importance of a level playing field in one-on-one work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and a level playing field means that we are no higher than our one on one clients, and our clients are no higher than us. Right? We might have certain expertise or knowledge
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that our clients don't have but one of the most energetic, important, energetic pieces in one-on-one work is that the playing field is level, right? There's no hierarchy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The exact same thing is true of group work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are not as facilitators sitting on a pedestal higher than better than more valuable than.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, sometimes we can go there. We're also not lower than right, not as not, which we can sometimes make the other people in the group. Right! And then we feel less than.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and one way to understand
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this level playing field is that you know, one way we can look at it is that it all comes down to power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the most
safe, ethical, and transformational spaces to be created and upheld.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want shared power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want shared power. a place where everyone feels empowered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to make this happen. to have a container where there is shared power, where everyone feels empowered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the onus is first and foremost on the facilitator of the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? It starts with us because energy follows energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when we're not approaching with this idea, I mean not only the idea, but really the embodiment of shared power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When there isn't shared power. People in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can end up feeling shamed or distrust distrustful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or stress. or maybe they're not willing to be vulnerable. or they can't go as d right, or they're they're put off.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let me pause here, because, even though I just spoke for only 2 min. There's a lot in what I just in those couple of sentences I just shared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you hearing so far? That feels important for you what's sparking for you so far? And also, if you wanna share an example of maybe when you've been in a space where there hasn't been shared power and what you've observed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, when you were speaking about that one thing that I love to do when I facilitate groups is
Heather Newcomb. she/her: there's a statistic and mathematicians, way smarter than me, have figured out that, like
Heather Newcomb. she/her: the
Heather Newcomb. she/her: the likelihood of our existence, is 14 trillion to one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pow.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and so like, if that doesn't instantly like, exemplify that everyone
Heather Newcomb. she/her: is meant to be here, and we all have a purpose.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. Oh, my gosh! I never knew that that statistic? That's incredible. Yeah. And it's such a beautiful way
Heather Newcomb. she/her: of like, we each have a space here. Right? Beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good! Who else? What is this bringing up for you. Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: I am. I love the shared playing field. and
Suzanne Culberg: some examples I can think of like when you share Joanna about examples of your own resistances or
Suzanne Culberg: past business things or family.
Suzanne Culberg: The only thing that it raises is a question like you model it so well, because then, when later, when you said, when there isn't shared power in the group, you can feel put off.
Suzanne Culberg: Sometimes it's easy to spot the put off where you feel beneath the facilitators in like I am sharing, and you are the peasants like. They don't say it like that, but sometimes it goes the other way. Whether I think they share too much. And you're like.
Suzanne Culberg: do you know enough to teach me this? You know what I mean like? There's there's the share playing field. But then, if they come to the corner dumping their entire life story, sometimes II think this is something you should be taken to your own coach.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that also makes you feel unsafe when it's too much the other way. So finding that balance, yeah. And what you're speaking to isn't is an energy follows energy thing. When a facilitator over shares they're not fully in their power. Right? And we're talking about everybody being empowered in the group, including the facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Go ahead. Veronica.
Veronica Jensen: Hello! And
Veronica Jensen: I wanted to speak to. I think, hearing you talk about that helped me sort of debunk one of my concerns or fears that came up earlier in the journaling, because one of my
Veronica Jensen: strengths I wrote down was being able to create a comfortable space for people to ask questions, and feel like they can come as they are, and not be afraid of not knowing. But one of my concerns was I? I think, because most of my experience is facilitating with groups that at least know each other a bit coming in that
Veronica Jensen: I'm concerned. I won't be able to get them to gel well and feel really comfortable, sharing vulnerably. But hearing you speak to
Veronica Jensen: the power dynamic, and I went. Oh, well, if if I am playing right with my own power, and creating that space for people to show up and ask questions, then I can't help, but also be able to create the space for them to gel and be vulnerable and comfortable doing that. So I wanted to call that out for myself, for anyone else who might have had that, and to thank you for speaking to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad that that that clicked. So it's exactly. And there are, of course, like little facilitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Things we can do to help with the gelling, too, but it is so much first and foremost about those energetics, and I've had the privilege of observing, you facilitate Veronica and into the depths. And you do do that so naturally. Just make people feel comfortable and empowered and happy to be there.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Caroline, what Suzanne was saying about the over sharing is that it's great for facilitators to share a little bit about themselves, to normalize so that they're on the same playing field with participants. But then, sometimes, facilitators can over share. And it it put it, it creates an unequal playing field. The facilitator kind of becomes less than
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. So as practitioners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we wanna aside from facilitation, flourishes to create that empowered space which we've looked at already, we're gonna be looking at some more in other ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But on an inner level, we want to be doing our ongoing work to be in right relationship to power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And most human beings today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): unless they've really done their ongoing work around this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are not in fully aligned relationship
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to power. It. It's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna take a look at in a moment. It's it's because of culture.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's because of culture and culture at large coaching and transformational industry, culture, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So we're gonna spend some time over, you know, the next hour ish to look at some of those inner pieces, to bring us into even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): better relationship with power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as we start to step into it, I want to acknowledge that for some of us, looking at issues of power can bring up a lot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right for some of us, it can bring up a lot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so if that is you first, I just wanna acknowledge you right for being here for being willing to look at whatever that next layer is for yourself. It's big.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I want to remind you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to only look as deep as you're ready to look. Don't, don't push, don't over. Push yourself right stretch
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without pushing. This isn't the person who goes the deepest or pushes themselves. The hardest is the biggest winner on test.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Keep yourself grounded and in your body as we explore, know your limits. and know that you can get exactly what you need around this without
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): needing to get go deeper than you're ready yet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just to just regulate it right? So we're not gonna be doing big shadow work this morning like how we do in advance and dramatic. We're gonna be doing some light shadow work around power. But it's still very powerful and deep. Nonetheless, right? So take care of yourself. Go at your aligned pace and also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): watch for resistance, because once we start we start peeking around. It's some shadows they're like. Don't look at me. This is stupid. I don't know why or so just just watch for some of that as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so why are why is it hard
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in right relationship with power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we see, or witness. or experience any kind of abuse of power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, and that can be from a personal experience in childhood, in adulthood, from parents, from teachers, from authority figures.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, it could be not personal. It can be something we see in the the culture and abuse of power that we see witness or experience from a political figure, or a coach, right or or any kind of leader.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we, when we see witness or experience an abuse of power, it impacts us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and oftentimes it deeply impacts us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as a result we can often decide
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that power is bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We can often decide that powers, even if we really want to feel powerful, there can be a part of us that decides that it's bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so we make a sacred contract with ourselves of sorts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to not be that thing that is bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): powerful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if that's what we really want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when we decide to not be that thing, to not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have that power. we in essence put the natural, normal.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): vital energy and impulse
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): toward empowerment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into shadow. What that means is, we reject it without even realizing that we've rejected it or disconnected ourselves from it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense so far?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But here's the thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even when we decide that a part of us is not us anymore, right when we, it still is there, and it still gets expressed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the problem is, if we are repressing right. If we've decided that power is bad in one way or another.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then we don't have. we can't leverage it. It leverages us. and it comes out sideways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Either is power over taking power over others, or is power under
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right fear that others are gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): overpower us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): letting others overpower us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So when we're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connected in with that natural, normal, healthy, aligned energy of power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I like to call it sacred power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then what's happening is that we're either afraid of our own power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or we're so afraid of other people's power that we try to protect ourselves from it by becoming overpowering ourselves, or by running away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's that's a lot right? And then those few ideas that I just shared, I want to let that land for a moment. The essence of the thread there is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we, if some part of us has decided that power is bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've cut ourselves off from our natural normal energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There are power. and then it can get expressed either as power over or power under.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, maybe we'll take a break before we go deeper. Actually, we're exactly at 90 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's I'd love to have one share on this. And then of what's starting to resonate so far where you like. Oh, that that makes sense so far, and then we'll take a break, and we'll come back and go a little deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We'd like to share Nina's saying. It's resonating. I'm so glad I'd love to hear one voice. What's sparking for you so far
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): This is resonating so so much. And I'm realizing that a lot of what's been coming up recently around sort of my dance around like justice work. And this work and abundance and power in the space and claiming visibility is
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): so much around this. It's this response to not wanting to be
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like representative of systems of power that are destructive and painful and hurt.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Specific populations. All of us, really but really
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): damage are really damaging to certain people, and I can feel how my lack of alliance with that is creating this contraction
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in my being around it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad you're starting to see that right? It's so righteous and aligned ways to not want to be representative of those systems that abuse power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we wanna make sure that we're not throwing away the aligned and sacred power by avoiding that so much. Right? So that's such a great example of what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're I'm talking about here.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Good may just say one more thing, too, on that. What you just said. It's not just not throwing away aligned in sacred power, but it's actually giving more power to the systems, and the kind of power that I don't want to represent by shrinking.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you. Thank you for adding that. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. I think that's a great note for us to take a break on. Veronica, to answer your question. We're gonna take about 13 min right now or 12 min at this point, and come back at 1245 Eastern, and then we'll take our longer break. Like I said earlier, around 2 to 3 Eastern. I have a feeling we're gonna kind of push into like 2, 1215
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I'll hang on for a minute if anybody needs anything. If not. We're gonna come back at 1245 Eastern, and we're gonna keep on going with this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. So let's keep on going. Kind of like, look under the hood here a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I ask you a couple of questions to journal on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first is, what are some examples of abuse of power that you've seen or witnessed or experienced, that has deeply impacted you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that can be personal or cultural, right parents, teachers, authority figures, political figures, industry figures, doctors.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coaches right whatever it is. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are some examples of abuse, of power that you've seen, or witness, or experience that has that impacted you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I wanna just remind everybody of what I was sharing earlier around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, taking care of yourself through this. So you know, I'm gonna get Meta for a second, and I'll let you all journal facilitation retreat. So from a facilitation standpoint.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you sometimes there's certain topics that we're that we look at that. We know that there can be trauma under the hood on it, right? And power is definitely one of them. So that's why I took the time. You know, before the break. When I was saying you don't have to push yourself on this. Take good care, go only as deep as you want right or not, as you want. That is right for you. Right? Take care of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So with this question, especially as you look at, you know examples of abuse, of power that you've seen witnessed experience. You'd be gentle with yourself as you take note.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Linda works in a healthcare setting and nursing. And so we see it unfortunately, a lot in healthcare environments and academic nursing environments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Khalida saying coaches identifying themselves as working with the divine
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feminine. But then using that to get people into altered states to sell.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, family dynamics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): adultism?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another question to think about. I'm going to ask it. And then I'm going to give examples because I think that examples. They'll help generate some things for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Kalita saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm sure that some of my issues with marketing and being more visible in the world are impacted by what I mentioned. I overcorrect absolutely. Everything we're looking at today is gonna help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bring you a little bit more into right relationship with power for your facilitation, but also for your marketing. I'm gonna point some of those things out a little bit, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin is saying, anyone who makes a decision for me, yeah. And we have to. As practitioners and coaches. We have to watch for that. Right? We're gonna talk more about that this afternoon. There's too much in industry, whether it's groups or one on one where practitioners are not allowing for participants agency, right? Making decisions for them, telling them what to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another question to think about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are the beliefs about power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your power, or other people's power that have been created because of those experiences that you just noted. So what are some of the beliefs about power? Right that you have. And I'm gonna give you some examples.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe you're starting to see, even if not all of you believes this. But maybe you're starting to see today that a part of you believes that power is bad. Right? So maybe that's a belief.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or maybe based on past experiences. There's a part of you that has a belief that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the only way to survive is for me to manipulate others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the only way to make money is to exaggerate in my marketing right? That's about power, because it's it's exaggeration is power over
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or all marketing is out of integrity. Maybe that's a belief that you've decided because of what you've seen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you, because of what you've experienced with abuse of power. A belief that you have is if I don't steal
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): their ideas, they're going to steal my ideas.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or I can't put my work out there because it's gonna be stolen. Or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe there's a belief of I can't stretch my clients because they'll end up feeling violated.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or I can't show up as myself with others. I'm too much. I'm too big. It's too overpowering.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So what are some of those beliefs
that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are maybe rolling around inside of you, related to power because of what you've seen and observe and experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this is just. This is a moment to really look and and be honest right, even if 90% of you believes that power is good. Is there a part of you that believes that power is bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what are some of those, those.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): those
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just those ideas, those beliefs around power over power under power, that have kind of been maybe a little bit running the show in some ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): seeing some really important shares, all of the all of the shares in the chat. So important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So again, when we have these beliefs rolling around
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): back to that sacred contract I was talking about earlier. There's a part of us that has decided
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can't right. I can't be that. I won't let myself be that. And then we disconnect from all of the healthy isn't the best word to the aligned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): parts of power, right, or some of those aligned parts of power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's the next question to think about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you. What has the impact of those beliefs been so? In other words, what feelings and actions have those beliefs led to? You can look at this in general. But also I want you to look specifically in your work, in your business, in your groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your marketing. If you want right, what has the impact of those beliefs been. What feelings and actions have those beliefs led to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know? Maybe for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You don't often show up as boldly as you might in your groups or with clients
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of some of those belief.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe if you have a belief
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of like, eat and be eaten right, which comes so much from power and culture. The moment someone in your group has some resistance, or is questioning something that you've shared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe you inadvertently make them feel a little smaller, or bypass their question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): By the way, no judgment. As you look at any of this right? We're looking at this because we we've all experien like it's we all have to continue to work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! Let's pause here. I'd love to hear a couple of voice to voice shares. What are you seeing so far what? What's really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): striking you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so far. Robin?
It's a big topic, of course. but bigger than I thought.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. So thank you. I guess II mean, I'm seeing a lot of things. But one thing just to say is that II
Robyn Vogel: I have an association that, like just all power is bad. Like the word itself, implies over powering and abusing, and very masculine energy, and I don't know that's not a judgment, but
Robyn Vogel: anyway. So
Robyn Vogel: that's interesting. And then and then
Robyn Vogel: I'm sha the way that it impacts is less
Robyn Vogel: strength from my source, you know.
Robyn Vogel: in my world, and that results in less of a business than I truly desire, less money than I truly desire.
Robyn Vogel: and and in some cases letting myself just kind of accept less
Robyn Vogel: and that has to do with the support in my retreats. I'm sure it shows up other places. But I'm aware of the support I receive. And
Robyn Vogel: really wanting to came up early when we first started.
Robyn Vogel: like.
Robyn Vogel: just really desiring, like, excellence in my assistance. That come. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, that's I'm glad that's coming up, too, because sometimes we can overlook
Robyn Vogel: that. You know that part. That's it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Scared sometimes of being that thing. The power over the all powerful right that we then actually don't show up in an empowered place to to do what is gonna support us and support everyone else.
Robyn Vogel: Right?
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, thank you.
Robyn Vogel: Margalite.
Margalit: This is a toughie.
Margalit: And so II know. So my intention has changed. If I can walk away with a healthier, more aligned relationship with power.
Margalit: I would be so grateful. I know I'm in charge of that.
Margalit: So I knew II enjoy being invisible and
Margalit: being under the radar, and I understand why my parents and the holocaust and all that. But what I didn't know until now is when you asked, what are my beliefs about power, I added.
Margalit: It's not fair to others. it makes others feel less than. and it makes others feel uncomfortable.
Margalit: So obviously that was my experience. Yes. and it's not true.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it's aligned power, or shared power or sacred power, it's not right, but that's the things. There's always 2 sides to the coin with shadow. Right? So for those of us that have a history, you know, share this with you of being a victim in in any way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're usually, if we've done some work, we're aware of the the part of, like the victim, part of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But there is also, then there has to be an equal part that we're running away from in terms of then stepping into the power because we don't want to be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the abuser of power. Right. So I'm so glad that that's coming to the fore for you. It's it's huge to start to look at it.
Margalit: Yeah, it gives me chills. So our response whatever. So my body is reacting. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you. I'm glad that's coming up. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy.
Amy Barfield Martin: The big thing for me
is
Amy Barfield Martin: I wrote down examples, you know, where Powers impacted me. And
Amy Barfield Martin: then, yes, believe about it, and I'm like, well, every single one of these situations that I broke previously was anytime. I spoke out, you know, in a way that was supporting me. Someone kept knocking it down, knocking it down, knocking it down, and th, so that that makes sense, you know. My voice doesn't want it, you know.
Amy Barfield Martin: It's like, but I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it and
Amy Barfield Martin: but that that in our first breakout room today, you know, wanted to.
Amy Barfield Martin: Things I mentioned like my did. One of my big fears is that someone's gonna turn on me in the middle of so it it's all coming together, I'm like, oh, oh, I see it now I see it now. Why, why do spend this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, looked up to in life, you know, and
Amy Barfield Martin: you know whether it was a a parent or you know someone I was working with, or
Amy Barfield Martin: you know them being the leader and maybe Andy, you know employee, or why not? So yeah. Couple of times as a student, you know, back in elementary school. So I'm like, Wow, this is, this is interesting. But but it's great to have this awareness. So I'm so glad you're making those connections right? Because even just that awareness, you can go into
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever the situation is right. We're talk like specifically facilitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What would be different in terms of how you show up for your groups
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you were more aware of. Oh, I have this fear that someone's gonna turn on me. I know that's because of things that. Oh, yeah, I could. I couldn't place why I had that. But exactly good. Good! Good! Good. I'm so glad. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah. This is following upon what I had said before, but I think just in this space, of seeing people on an equal playing field, and like really, truly honoring every single human
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): as so
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): valuable and and so important. It's so hard for me to reconcile the idea of like being empower or holding some level of power, or being empowered when
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I see myself on the same level in that way, and I feel like, somehow there's something in me around understanding that with more power comes more responsibility, but also more capacity, because it takes a lot of nervous system capacity to hold power. And I have seen that and felt that. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): with that, like what it feels like, I start to lose the thread of connection and connection is like everything to me. So it's
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was resonating a little bit with Amy, but not so much about like being turned on, but rather being completely alone, because
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and that, it being my fault like, I would be leaving people behind, or somehow betraying them or betraying a cause.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then I'd be all alone and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then lost.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So that's yeah. That's what comes there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm glad you know the awareness is our coming up. We're gonna keep on going further, and I think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you'll you'll feel more connection as we go through. I'm also happy because you're in advance, so get I, get you in person in the Shadow Retreat in a few months, feeling some of these pieces are, gonna we're gonna but good. Keep on following these threads.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Joe.
Jo Longanilla: Yeah, I just wanted to bring something up. I put it in the chat, but I wanted to just name it, because when I was taking notes and you had said that one of the beliefs of
Jo Longanilla: I can't stretch my clients because they'll feel violated. And initially I was like, Oh, that's interesting! But then I had this
Jo Longanilla: reaction in my body.
Jo Longanilla: and it was like, oh, Whoa! My God! Oh, my God! I think that's me! I think I had that.
Jo Longanilla: you know, unconscious belief. and
Jo Longanilla: how it's played out is that I'm either on one end of the spectrum or the other.
Jo Longanilla: Okay, you know, like
Jo Longanilla: hands off, like no problem. And then the other time might be like, I'm almost like feeding them as opposed to guiding, you know, like
Jo Longanilla: this, is it like, come on, you know, like giving like wanting to just overpower?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, I'm so glad you're seeing that. And we're not gonna get too much into that spectrum piece today. But that that is the way Shadow operates as we go to extremes like one moment we're like, I'm trying so hard not to be overpowering that I'm I'm not stretching my clients. I'm trying so hard. I'm trying to. And then all of a sudden, we bop to inadvertently doing something that actually is a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of a not so kosher with power. Right? And then we're like, Oh, my God, I can't believe it right. And then we go to the. And it's this, it's this ping pong game that happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. Let's see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some great
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shares in the chat, too, Kate is saying. I used to feel that money was the root of all evil, and so many other stories about money that would impact all that I did. I'm also so aware I used to think it was my responsibility to get my clients and part to get them somewhere right. I used to fear people would steal my stuff, me, too. Yup, and that also makes me smile. Now also, Kate. And I remember thinking I had to know all the things learning to trust me. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. Let's keep on going forward. And I love Joe that you just shared, because it's it's segue into where I wanted us to kind of keep on. Just this exploration is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when so really a little bit what I just said like when we disconnect from the natural, normal, aligned good for everyone power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of us, right? Because of everything that we've been looking at so far today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we often, when we get disconnected from that power, we often go to one of 2 extremes, or bop back and forth between the 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So for most of us here, I'm gonna guess that we go to the extreme of Oh, my God! I'm so scared of abusing power or being power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And so what happens when we go there? Lots of different things. I'm gonna name some marketing things and some facilitation things just for you to think about. So when we have this extreme fear of abusing power, we've cut ourselves off from it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then maybe we don't put our marketing out there right because we've seen other people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who put their stuff out there in a like icky, abusive way, and we don't want to be that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe when we have a big fear of abusing power, then we grossly undercharge
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Because it it we're scared. We're going to be doing power over if we charge
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): higher rates.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe we don't say something important to a client or a group member. right? Because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're scared that that's gonna be an abuse of power. Now, we need skills for those of us that have been through sacred depths. Like we, we need those particular reflection skills or speaking hard truth skills like we, we call it in sacred depths, you to do it in a way right. But if we're just not doing it at all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe even for you. It could look like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not doing somatic work right, because you're scared of power over so it can look lots of different ways when we go to the extreme
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of Oh, my gosh, I'm I'm avoiding power at all costs, even though we don't realize that that's what we're doing in the moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can bop to the other extreme. And you know, I think we see a lot of this in the industry of the the abuse of power, right? The manipulative tactics
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): marketing tactics, but more in terms of facilitation, you know. Maybe we've seen it as when a practitioner tells their client that they're not achieving their goals because they don't want it badly enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's an abuse of power. When a practitioner has a certain privilege that their client doesn't have, whether it's around race, religion, sexual identity, education, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the practitioner tells the client that the situation isn't really that bad right or bypasses in some way. That's an abuse of power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When a practitioner shames a group participant in any way or dismisses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's an abuse of power, or doesn't give an option to opt out of a certain exercise that that a participant might not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel comfortable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, we want discomfort. Discomfort is okay. But really, it's not aligned for that person to do right. I could give lots of other examples of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's here's just the thing that I want to point out these abuses of power that I just mentioned in others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They don't happen because the facilitator is bad
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or evil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And even I, sometimes every now and again, when I'm not in touch with my aligned power, can go to judging other people that I see doing this feel like, Oh, my God, they're just. They're the worst. So the truth is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these things don't happen because those entrepreneurs or facilitators are bad or evil. They happen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either because they've gotten terrible modeling for other people in the industry.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But really it happens because the facilitator, in the moment that they take that action, is so triggered or scared of being powerless.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they have this misaligned response, this misaligned reaction. Right? It's just that other coin of the disempowerment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): scenario.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. Let me pause
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here. What's clicking? What are you seeing? What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Amy is seeing in the chat. When when people turn, they are often feeling powerless, right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It goes back to everything. We've been looking at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Mark Elite saying, I'm a beginner in this power relationship. It's always good to have a beginner's mind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna go a little deeper in a moment. But before we do just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one note on this, we're not bad. But it's it's it's a reaction to the fear of being powerless or feeling powerless.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One of the most important things as facilitators
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is for us to be aware of our triggers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If we are committed to sacred power in our containers, to power with to an equal playing field. It is vital for us to to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): become more and more aware in the moment of when an old belief
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or trauma around power gets us triggered so that we're not reactive one way or the other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because when when that power thing gets triggered for us in the moment we can often go into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I need to be perfect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My participants are the enemy, like everybody, is against me. You're all the enemy I need to defend or attack right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we get triggered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes it's maybe because something hasn't gone as we've planned. And then we think we're terrible. And something has gone wrong. Right? We get, we get reactive in those ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the work that we're doing here today and give homework on this, but also appoint just on this is that the more that we take care of our nervous systems in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more grounded we can be, even when something triggering happens. When I say, take care of our nervous systems, I mean getting enough sleep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): managing and our blood sugar. That's a big one for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not checking devices or something, you know, an email that might be particularly triggering right before we go to facilitate making sure we've gotten to the bathroom right, all of those physical things, so that we can be as grounded as possible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But let me ask you a question on this. What are some things that you're so that could happen when you're facilitating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that have the potential to trigger you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are some things that could happen when you're facilitating that would have the potential to trigger you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what an example of that is, you know. Maybe a client that is, goes into real judgment on something you've said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Lot could be lots of different things right? But what are some things that have the potential to trigger you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): transphobia.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): super dominant participants.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, right? It's good for us to just kind of be aware.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of those things noise in the background. If it's live.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): someone having a meltdown people talking it, talking or not listening. If it's live leaf blower.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): dominant participants who take over, who are criticizing me. We're gonna talk over the next 2 days, how to actually navigate so many of these situations like the exact words or things to do. But for today, I also just want you to consider right your energetics. So the more we can work on these beliefs of the aligned power, so that we can feel in our power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the more we can be grounded in our bodies and the less triggered we're gonna become.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Someone came to a group call smoking. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when a client believes I'm targeting them. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen, you've got your hand raised.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Yeah. So
Jennifer Rose Gens: I had the potential to be triggered yesterday in a client call, and I'm just really grateful for what you've taught me and us.
Jennifer Rose Gens: cause I wasn't. And I was like, alright. It actually created more intimacy. I just got something wrong. I misunderstood what my client was saying.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and I projected that her grief was holding the grief of the world. And I was like, you're not alone.
Jennifer Rose Gens: You know. So many of my clients are feeling this right now. And she she interrupted me. She's like actually. that's not how I feel. and I was like.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for telling me, and I just owned it just like you've taught taught us and taught me, and you know, throughout the years like, just own it. And I
Jennifer Rose Gens: you know, I was like, I'm so sorry I misunderstood you. She's like, yeah, that's actually not how I feel at all. And I could tell that she was really triggered by not feeling fully seen. And I was like. Thank you so much, you know. Let's like, let help me clarify.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And then I just owned it again, just to like, really hit it home like. And I just wanna own again. I'm so sorry I was projecting upon you, and she's like.
Jennifer Rose Gens: thanks that. Thank you so much. And I, her whole system just relaxed, and couple of years ago I would have been like my heart would have been racing, and
Jennifer Rose Gens: I did notice it a little bit, and you know we just took a deep breath together, and and it was totally fine. And it was like, Oh, yeah, don't need to be perfect. I'm allowed to get it wrong. That's right. We look at this a lot in sacred depth. Yeah, no, you've worked through it. And but this I'm so glad you're bringing it forward, because this is an important thing. When we are in right relationship with our power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have no problem being wrong. We're facilitating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we can own up to it, and we don't have to feel less than, and we don't have to try to prove the point, or we don't have to start beating up ourselves because we didn't hear it. Right? We can course correct.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my gosh, I'm having a peri menopause moment. Wait what the words that I just want to say. It's never about the oh, it should say it's never. But it's usually not about the rupture. It's about the repair, right. So there are going to be moments, even if we have the best listening skills possible that we're gonna misunderstand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That. And there is going to be a little bit of a rupture. The client might get triggered or feel like Oh, my God! She didn't hear me, or whatever. But if we've created a solid enough container. To begin with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the client is going to say, actually, that's not what I meant. And then, when we're in right relationship to power, we get to then repair
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Because we can be wrong. And it's okay. And we can apologize and we can move forward. And then there's even deeper connection between us and our participants or clients from that situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else that's sparking. I'm gonna do a little bit more work on this before our longer break. Yeah, Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: not related to coaching. But that part you just said about being okay being wrong for parenting.
Suzanne Culberg: like, I'm wrong a lot with my children, and there was one time when I was around my dad, and I can't remember what I did, and I apologized to him.
Suzanne Culberg: one of my children. and he got irate about it. He was like, you know, you never apologize to your kids. You're the parent, you know.
Suzanne Culberg: I was like, you know, that power, authority, authorian thing there, and it was like, I'm not the endless whatever like sometimes, especially now like it's January here at school holidays. Sometimes I say to them, when I'm finished working, we can do X,
Suzanne Culberg: and I forget. So I've literally said like, Remind me, but not like just before bed, so like to give them some of the power in this dynamic that we're navigating, working in school holidays.
Suzanne Culberg: that it's not just on me to remember to do all the things, especially now that that bit older. But that part. And when you said when you're in right relationship with that power, we have no problem being wrong. My dad could never be wrong, and never, ever admit in his entire life. He's never said I'm sorry, or I forgot, or whatever it was always me who was wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad, so yay credible parenting right. And I'm so glad you're bringing this forward, because that's a classic abuse of power that so many of us have experienced right, and then it becomes scary when we're facilitating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But really we're humans. We're allowed to be wrong. It doesn't make us less than. And it is so empowering for our kid, our client, our group members.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in an empowered way, we say you're you are right and I am wrong, and I am, and if there's a need for to apologize right it is. It is such a beautiful way of sharing power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a group container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you for bringing that up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna give you a couple of minutes right now
to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): define for yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what shared power or power with, or sacred power means for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): based on everything we've been looking at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so define power with or shared power, sacred power, whatever you want to call it
for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida, the question is to define sacred power or power, shared power or power with whichever of those phrases resonate most for you.
Yeah. And please share in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does shared power or sacred power mean for you, based on all that we've been looking at together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's empowering for all
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin is saying. Yes, I love that for Khalida. As I become more full of myself, I invite you to become more full of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that, too, so beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy, saying, it means seeing my participants and clients is having the same amount of power that I have no less, and also no more, and they have the power to agree with me or not. Agree with me to want to go on the journey I'm offering and sharing or not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Imagine if we felt like that, with our prospects, too, to feel more empowered there also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Dr. Josie to be empowered and confident within, so that those around me have the space to find that same place within themselves. Beautiful. Yes, energy follows energy right, the more empowered and aligned ways that we show up as facilitators, practitioners
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that supports our clients, to feel that way as well
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Darlene, harmony, balance, flow, ease, feeling of empowerment, beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Deva, empowering myself and others to stay in their their authenticity. I love that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and feel that we are leading from a place of integrity and love. Yeah, for the greatest good of all. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anika, saying freedom to say no at any moment I'm gonna talk more about that. As well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See the soul reflecting back to my own beautiful, yeah, all of these are beautiful. I'm looking them all out loud.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, we're gonna do one more piece of work on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we take our longer break. But before we do, I wanna pause again for any voice to voice shares on what's what's really? What are you seeing what's becoming more and more important as we're looking at this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's what's feeling really important here? And, Jenna, you know that your hand is raised. I just want to make space for anyone that hasn't yet shared Essie.
Essie Richards: I think it's like looking at the definition of what sacred power means to me has really
Essie Richards: given me some confidence that you know. It's what story I'm feeding, right? So I see I could just put as much energy
Essie Richards: into this story of sacred power. and then create this really beautiful space that I really believe in. or I could let fear blind side me by feeding into this old story of like being so afraid of like power over shit, and then rob
Essie Richards: that space of all of that beauty that could be brought
Essie Richards: so that was powerful to see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. Yes, and for anyone that resonates, I'm I'm gonna quote almost from Se. And this is a writer downer. What is the story about power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I am choosing to feed into? Right? Now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have, we have power. In that we have agency, we have choice around which narrative we are choosing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to believe and lean into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Sharon is saying, that's what you realized as well that heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yes, when I think about like shared or sacred power. It reminds me of a video of
Heather Newcomb. she/her: there's a series of 5 metronomes. and they're all set to different intervals. and they're on a table.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and when the person
Heather Newcomb. she/her: moves, the metronomes that are on a plank of wood
Heather Newcomb. she/her: moves the plank of wood onto these 2 soda cans so that the metronomes can have flow.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: they synchronize themselves.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and then, when they take, when they put the metronomes back on the table, they go back
Heather Newcomb. she/her: to not being in sync. So to me. sacred power is not having the resistance of the table. so that the metronomes can become
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all aligned. Hmm! That's such a beautiful image.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, if you Google synchronizing metronomes, you can see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So let's let's keep on going just a little bit further
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna move into a little bit of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): an inner
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like meditative experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if it is comfortable for you to close your eyes. Close your eyes. We'll we'll be in this for about 5 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you want to keep your eyes open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If that feels more aligned you can keep them open, but go inward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna lead us through a visualization.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you are not able to visualize, some people just aren't able to visualize, for whatever reason, it's all good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You don't have to see anything, just sense in feel the energy, and listen and feel the energy and listen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I want to invite you to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): notice that you are in a cave
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and really slow down and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take a little time to arr in the cave.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Notice what the ground in this cave feels like under your feet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe put your hands out if you're near the the wall of a cave, see what it feels like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Notice what the air is like in the cave. The temperature.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if there's sound.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you're able to visualize.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see if if you can see anything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but most importantly, feel what it feels like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): notice that you see an opening or sense an opening in the cave to the outdoors
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): magical kingdom.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and make your way directly to the opening of the cave and out it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as you arrive outside of the cave to this natural magical place.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Notice what it feels like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel it in your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and seeing or feel that a small animal comes as a companion. see or feel what that small animal is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that companion that support.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and let that small companion animal
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): lead you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to a place in this natural world
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where your aligned sacred power is. You don't need to think it. Just be with this small animal as they lead you to this place
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your aligned power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your sacred power of your shared power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as you get to this place, if you can see, take a look and see what it looks like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but most importantly feel.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel what it feels like in this space of shared power, aligned power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sacred power!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let your body take note.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and with your animal companion with you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): call down in human form to be in front of you your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sacred power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): call down in human form to be in front of you your sacred power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're able to visualize.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): start with the feet of this one, and take in the details
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your sacred power in human form.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if not taken the energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel this one in front of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you can see, see what this one looks like, what they wear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The expression on the face of sacred power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel the energy of this one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this one who knows how to be empowered, and to share that power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if it feels right for you, I invite you to take their hands in yours and connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the touch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe connect through the eyes, looking straight at each other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and maybe even start to entrain the breath, breathe together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with your sacred power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Notice how this feels.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask this one. You might hear the answer, feel the answer, see it!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask this one the sacred power, what does it want you to know?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does it want you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and continue to connect with this one? Feel the sacred powers, arms in yours connect through the breath
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your sacred power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it wants you to be aware of in your work and in your groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does it want you to be aware of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your works and in your work and in your groups
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): continue to connect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this one the sacred power. It has gift, an object. For you. Ask it to present you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with this gift.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and see what the object is, or feel what it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask your sacred power, your line power, what this gift is for, how you can use it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this energy to put the gift directly into the part of your body that can absorb it the best. Right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask it to put the gift directly into the part of your body that can absorb it. use it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just feel as the gift goes inside of you, and feel its energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and take in the energy of this gift.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel what it feels like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then finally take hands with your sacred power again, feeling its energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask it to balance its energy out inside of you through the hands, moving from hand to hand, making a circle going round and round, and you'll know when that energy is balanced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Picking one more moment, seeing if there's anything else this one wants you to know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, as you're ready, letting it go, letting it fade into the distance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, thanking it first, if you haven't sorry. So gratitude.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then let it fade.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then ask your animal companion to take you directly back to the cave.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you arrive back at the cave, take a nice breath.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then you can open your eyes if they're not already open and jot down anything that you want to jot down that came through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin. Did you fall asleep?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had a feeling that can happen sometime.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy fell asleep too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's the worst in person. If the lights are low, you just have to twinkly lights, and everybody's lying down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I always trust that it's like you still took in exactly what you needed to take in. And it's working on a deeper level.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I said earlier, we're probably gonna go like 10 min after 2 and, by the way, speaking of power, it's that's that's a power thing to right. We we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as leaders of a group, we hold the time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we say we're gonna end at a certain time. But then we go over. If we don't let people know right, give agency. Of course, if you have to go it to all of that right? So it's a little subtle thing, but it's important for us to always be kind of sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the information about time not to be moving times on things too much just like in the moment, and to give people the agency if they need. If we need to go over a little bit. But people need to leave at that moment. That's okay, because we don't know who's been held against their will right at other points, or felt a guilty that they have to stay with something, and and then not take care of their own needs, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, I'd love to hear some shares what came through in the work with the the meeting, your sacred power, and connecting with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Deva?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David? If you're speaking
Deva Munay: I just I love love love doing guided visual journeys like that. And
Deva Munay: I went deep in the cave within me, and then felt the light like coming out the crown of my head and then merged. And I have this white Pegasus that I think I've worked with as a spirit animal guide for over 20 years now, and it was there, and it took me to this beautiful guardian angel just like glowing white.
Deva Munay: and we touched hands. And it was just this very illuminated process. and I feel like my life work is really to open my throat, and
Deva Munay: the gift was that there was a box with a blue heart, and that she told me my gift or my superpower is my voice, and to keep empowering my voice
Deva Munay: in my lifetime, and to use. And I'm in like a singing group. And it's this area that's just this constant like workplace for me to like, trust my voice, empower my voice and
Deva Munay: like work on my singing voice, and I really want to bring that more into the sound journeys. I feel good about my speaking voice, but not my singing voice so much but it was just really
Deva Munay: kind of this
Deva Munay: beautiful journey, and just so full of grace. And then going back into the sacred dark cave, too, was, you know, the the balance of the light in the dark, and having all those elements of we're birthed out of the darkness, and allowing for that emergence, there is this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feeling of emergence. I love that I love, that I it feels like some of the pieces to take with you is that feeling of emergence right? And coming back to that? And then all those pieces on the voice.
Deva Munay: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie.
Dr. Josie: super powerful
Dr. Josie: and see if I can do this without tears. So I was in my cave, and I'm a really good visualizer. But I, when you said to find a way into the magical realm. I
Dr. Josie: it was a hole that I had to crawl up through, and I emerged it out of the grass like out of a hole in the ground into the magical realm, and the animal that was there was a rabbit, this little white rabbit and I was eye level with it in the grass.
Dr. Josie: and then all of a sudden, its ears got like super, long like like it since like a sensory thing. And so I followed it along, and I had to literally crawl along the grass under these bushes so unusual for, and then it opened in this glade, and there was this gorgeous like days like stage set with this golden throne. And I was like, no.
Dr. Josie: no, not a throne that's like power over all. This stuff came into my head, and and they were like the rabbit was like, no, it's for you, it's for you. It's your gift. And he hopped up there and made me sit on it, and it was surrounded by these gorgeous roses and just roses were just like all around me, the set of roses.
Dr. Josie: And then, when my sacred power showed up. It was a knight like an Arthurian knight in golden armor.
Dr. Josie: and he's hat. His helmet was off under one hand, and he had these like beautiful golden locks of curly hair, and he came up and kneeled in front of me and presented his sword in front of me, and I was again. It was like this whole thing, like the mail coming forward, but it was like the divine mail, and my animus coming. You know my inner Fe mail, but just literally kneeling in front of me. And I
Dr. Josie: there was a whole ceremony and transfer of like power through me, touching a sword and blessing it, and he told me that I was always divinely protected and watched over, no matter what. and that
Dr. Josie: he gave me this golden light, and he said it was a shield for my heart, so if I ever felt unprotected, I could just shine that out into the world
Dr. Josie: as as a symbol of my compassion
Dr. Josie: as my yeah protected field.
Dr. Josie: So and I'm coming up. It's really crazy. I found myself this year
Dr. Josie: coming up some with with the power structure power structure in terms of
Dr. Josie: the major dog food corporations. We're talking Purina, who makes 19 billion dollars a year. I'm in a group of women, and we are like coming at them full force
Dr. Josie: with animals that they're killing because of their food. And so I'm gonna be probably going on news channels next week with it.
Dr. Josie: and we're banding together. But I mean, talk about coming up against a different form of power structure. And yet it's so interesting because our group is all women. And we're really, really standing strong in our integrity. So this was just a really, really special gift.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad I'm so glad all of that came through, and really honoring you for doing the work, too, with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Karina and all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I just wanna offer this. I know you know this, Josie. I offer this for you and for everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): come back to sitting on your throne
right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just because you get to sit on the throne doesn't mean that everybody else doesn't get their throne also.
Dr. Josie: Thank you. Thank you for that cause. I didn't want to claim it. It's like, like, I'm not. I'm not worthy of sitting there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And I but it right. It came up for a reason, because your Psyche is saying you are ready, and I would love for you on your own to keep on coming back to that part of the the visualization and feel yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the throne intentionally.
Dr. Josie: Okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Dr. Josie: It's awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: Hi, there! I will. I will highlight a few points and and skip others.
Kellita Maloof: in the cave. At first
Kellita Maloof: I was concerned, because the whole that I did see at first I was afraid of water gushing through it like that was I was.
Kellita Maloof: and then, when you mentioned
Kellita Maloof: that there was an well, you didn't say another whole, but it was clearly another
Kellita Maloof: exit from the cave. It was a beautiful, you know, grass and a hamlet and this.
Kellita Maloof: but that I think I'm still, whatever that means in the cave and afraid of the water rushing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, let's let's pause on that for a moment. So you know, a piece of homework I we give you is to actually, if if it's not too dysregulating to come back and connect in with the water
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask the water what it wants you to know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? Cause I mean, if the water came, it would fully just wash. You know what I mean? I mean, yeah. Yeah. So this not about the water coming and rushing, but it's about not being so scared of the water, and seeing if you can actually connect in to understand the water a little bit more cause I agree, I think there's something important there for you. I will ask the water what it.
Kellita Maloof: what it has for me, but from its highest wisdom, what would it like for you to know. Thank you. I'll just pause there with that one. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Okay, you're welcome. Yeah, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in Yungy. In terms. The cave is a little like just the opportunity to go into the Psyche before going into this work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? And so even just just the okay, we're like coming into Psyche times. You know th those things can cut fears can come up there as well
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright, based on everything that we've looked at. And after our longer break. We're gonna get into more like brass tacks ways of creating an equal playing field in our group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): groups and sharing power. And a part of that we're gonna look at being trauma informed. But but for now, in terms of the inner pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is a new belief
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): around power? Specifically in your groups that you would like to start leaning into what is a new idea or belief about power in your groups, or or you as a facilitator in that realm that you'd like to start leaning into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is a new belief around power in your groups that you would like to start leaning into
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of saying, Trust myself and truly model. The types of power I feel are healthy for the cultural change I want to encourage.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. You know a note on that. I. Aside from the curriculum that we teach in our groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I believe so wholeheartedly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that our groups have the potential
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to create new possibilities for all of our participants around power and connection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and just through the ways we share and model
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): power and everything we're looking at today. It is so. It is just containers can be so healing. And I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe this isn't the best word but corrective, you know, around issues of power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sharon saying, My power is accessible within me. It vibrates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and is always renewable. Yes. for Suzanne having no problem being wrong, it's so free it really is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Khalida. That power serves all, yes, including me, for me to wield it. Yes. for Robin. Power is leadership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and can help people. Power can help people feel safe. What a revelation! Ray
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): power is aligned, sacred and supportive! Yes, for Amy, reclaiming and standing in my own power, empowers others to do the same.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from our Galite. When I hold my sacred power in a healthy way, others feel more empowered and understood. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Nina, my power is grounded and smooth and strong. beautiful. Well, I know more is gonna come through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And also I promise you that we have planted seeds this morning that are going to continue to evolve even beyond this retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna take a longer break. And then when we come back, like I said, we're gonna look at practical pieces around shared power and containers, safe containers, trauma informed containers, and also start to get a little bit more into creating community, which, of course, we've already looked at in so many different ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's come back or retail this a little bit shorter than an hour. Just that. I have a feeling we're gonna need it. Let's come back at 5 to 3. So 2, 55, Eastern, and then we'll go like I said, until 4, 30,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): try to spend some time away from the computer during these next 50 min we we did big work, even if it didn't feel like it this morning. Nourish yourself, drink water, take a walk, if if you can. Just just really take care of yourself, I'll hang on for a few minutes if anybody needs anything right now, if not, we're back at 2 55 Eastern.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's come back together. If you're here, and you're able to turn your camera on, please do just so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I know that you're back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a facilitator point of view. That's always one of the tricky things on Zoom are people back in the room. They come back. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I we have time. We have a couple minutes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some shares on what's resonating for you from this morning. What's been moving through you over our break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's what's really alive for you? From what we looked at this morning, what new pieces are coming forward? What are you seeing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel like there are one or 2 shares on this, and you know that they're important. So please share what's what's moving through you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kim?
Kim Davies: I
Kim Davies: had. Can you hear me? Yeah, I had this incident yesterday where I almost hit my friend with a car, and I've been stressing out about it like, you know, I didn't hit her. But I made up this huge story and thankfully, with what you were have. We've been talking about today. That quote about Re. It's the repair I was like, Okay, I sent her an email yesterday. Shouldn't respond. So I called her over Break.
Kim Davies: And she was like, oh, I didn't even know that was you. It's fine! Don't worry about it. I had. I had made up this whole thing in my head, and what's really apparent to me is
Kim Davies: what I give my power away is because I'm so afraid of people being mad or yelling at me, and that is, that is a huge thing. For me and it. And it does hold me back
Kim Davies: in many ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And yeah, yeah, it's hard. So first of all, I'm glad of the synchronicity of today, you know, since that just happened yesterday. And just so, you know, II can imagine some had similar things. I it's a little bit of a trauma when we almost hit somebody and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): create dysregulation in our systems. And so I'm just having so much love and compassion for you, and also to say, if you have space for like body work or previous session, or even just some meditation or yoga.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my guess is that it in general, you know. And to that point that we were saying earlier today, when we get triggered, when when you know, that's when we aren't seated in our power, and it is so easy to give power away or to take power over others. So I'm so glad that you're seeing that it was kind of this this story.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And also, you know, I'm sure you're thinking about this. But just to connect the dots for you and everybody else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are the stories that you're making up in your facilitation in your marketing with your clients, that then have you giving your power away?
Kim Davies: Yeah?
Kim Davies: Yeah, I listened to this podcast, the other day. And they said this statement, how am I making this? How am I turning this moment into a painful moment?
Kim Davies: And I was like, oh, that's good.
Yeah.
Kim Davies: yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's similar. To what sc was sharing before. Of what? What's the narrative, or what's the story that give energy to?
Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin.
Robyn Vogel: I'm nodding my head. I guess, instead of saying the same thing.
Robyn Vogel: I'm gonna add to it by saying that
Robyn Vogel: I have a fear around like really standing up strongly in my power with a point of view. About something. And
Robyn Vogel: it's it's in part it's what was just spoken around, you know, being like afraid of not being liked and loved, and all of that by my community and other people. But I also like I don't. The other piece that comes up is like not being
Robyn Vogel: What's the word like?
Robyn Vogel: Totally sure that my point of view is my point of view.
Robyn Vogel: II think there's parts a lot of different parts. There's parts that come in and screw around with my
Robyn Vogel: my clarity in my alignment. It's like what you know. I'm gonna say this oh, and then like, Oh, no, wait. I don't really feel that way, because when I listen to that person, that person. Now I feel differently, which is also just sort of who I am, because I'm one of those people that can see like so many different points of view.
Robyn Vogel: so I don't know. I guess I'm just like naming that because that shows up for me, especially now, with everything going on in the Middle East. You know, I have friends like making statements on Facebook that are really strong, and that's fine and good, like, I'm interested in what they have to say, but
Robyn Vogel: I'm not gonna do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I first of all, I completely relate you're so not alone in that. And I think that you know, on certain topics when there really is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ambiguity or not clarity. Better not to say things sometimes. And every everybody wants to say what they want to say. Social media, you know, have a stance, but we don't. We don't need my. My stance lately has been we don't need a stance, and there's complexity to everything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being, said Robin. tell me if I'm getting this right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that aside. I think I'm hearing that there are certain times, though, where you do have a point of view.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there there is a protection mechanism or survival mechanism that's kind of getting activated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to keep you from getting hurt being too vulnerable, having other people get angry at you, feeling not liked, etc., etc., etc. And that protective mechanism the way it's just so so sneaky and smart. The the way it protects you from all of those things is creating some confusion around your stance.
Robyn Vogel: Am I getting? Yeah, yeah, it.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, definitely. It's like, you know, burned at the stake
Robyn Vogel: you know in part and yeah.
Robyn Vogel: and then I have a part that makes me feel confused. That
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): confusion is the the resistance. That's right. That is kind of distracting from the bigger fear of the being burned at the stake. It's so much easier to to to get distracted by. Well, I'm not sure, and I'm kind of confused, and I could believe this, but I might believe that then, right then to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stay regulated and do the thing that you're scared of doing.
Robyn Vogel: So. Yeah. And then have people ask questions and want me to respond. And
Robyn Vogel: yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): lots. So lots of lots of ways. I'm sure you've already worked with this a lot and have made headway and lots of ways to continue, you know, for now one thing I would say is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to come back to that fear of being burnt at this day. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to make a little better friends
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to, you know it's often easier to do this. Well led. We don't have time for it today, but just for now like to to see if you can hold space for that fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and have compassion for that fear, and and stay regulated, and in your wisdom, even while holding
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that fear?
Robyn Vogel: Hmm, hmm!
Robyn Vogel: Does that feel like a good
Robyn Vogel: next? Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: thank you. And thanks for sharing that. I know you're not the only one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yes. So this is not a well thought out.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Think that
Kelly Melear-Hough: what is coming to mind for me is
Kelly Melear-Hough: that when we're facilitating groups we are.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and
Kelly Melear-Hough: if we're in our sacred power we are sharing.
Kelly Melear-Hough: we're sharing that power and then empowering others to speak and participate and communicate. And
Kelly Melear-Hough: we're not trying to be seen as the know it all, the the one who is imparting all the knowledge to others who don't know anything. But at the same time I think.
Kelly Melear-Hough: we still have to hold the container right? So it's not like we don't have any responsibility. We ha! We still have to hold people accountable to the group rules.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and we still have to kind of show up in a leadership role. In that sense.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, there, there is a difference between shared power. There's a connection between shared power and leadership and also a difference.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as facilitators, we want to share power while being in leadership.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Right? Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're bringing it forward. It feels fully formed the thought. And we're actually gonna talk more about some of those pieces that you're bringing up, I think today. And if if not today, tomorrow. So I'm so glad you bring that because it is, we have different role. We have a different role in the container as the facilitator than our participants.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that doesn't mean that there isn't shared power or an equal playing field. Both can be true
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the same at the same time.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yeah. So I think that's the piece that I'm
Kelly Melear-Hough: wanting to know more about, because I hate it when I'm in a group. And the facilitator doesn't control it like, doesn't enforce the group agreements or let somebody talk too much, or
Kelly Melear-Hough: it doesn't make space for the introverts in the group to talk that kind of thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. We're gonna look at pieces of that throughout the next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 3 days.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay?
And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: yeah, everything everyone is. I mean, this whole thing is just really like hitting me. Really, it's landing so deeply. And thank you for that last share, too.
Nina von Feldmann: What keeps coming to mind for me is I'm in this really powerful place in my life right now. Because of all the ways that
Nina von Feldmann: I'm dysregulated, I deregulate, and II gave away my power.
Nina von Feldmann: and I'm in that accountability, reckoning right now, like Whoa Ilett. other forces step in because I was dysregulating and trying to protect
Nina von Feldmann: and lo and behold, that very action created
Nina von Feldmann: a situation that is very difficult to now
manage. And so what I keep thinking of is the analogy that keeps coming to mind is
Nina von Feldmann: in in how I'm trying to overlay this with groups right now is sometimes the energy of a thing or a project, or an endeavor or a relationship, or you name it what? It's all relationship. It's like a a, a racehorse or a horse or a bucking bronco. It's got that energy, very powerful
Nina von Feldmann: energy, and if one is not regulated, and then sitting
Nina von Feldmann: in the position of a actually like being in control of, but want working with that energy. If one is not regulated that the beast is going to feel it, and and and one is not going to be able to control it, and that is some that that is a a
Nina von Feldmann: bit of a fear.
Nina von Feldmann: in a group like opening the saying, this is what I'm going to do. This is what's gonna happen. This is like the equivalent of getting on the horse, and then the gates open, and it's all on. And then, if I'm not fully in my
Nina von Feldmann: power, regulated and grounded. And sometimes there's forces outside of myself. It's just like how to do the Jedi
Nina von Feldmann: practice of being able to work on the regulation and navigate this
Nina von Feldmann: powerful beast that is now mine, because I've said yes to putting it out into the world. And there's a whole group of eyes looking at me to be able to manage it in that way. And that is just
Nina von Feldmann: it's a little maddening.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad you're bringing it forward. We're, you know. I think we'll look at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): little pieces around this over these days, too. But for now I wanna share a couple of things. First of all, you're not the only one that feels that way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there are a couple of things that can really help us. so that we don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel overwhelmed and or or that the energy is right. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one like you're saying, and it's not you just do it, and it's done. Take care of ourselves and our nervous systems right? But the more that we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can be in our whatever the practices are as well as like, I said earlier, the sleeping, the eating, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so to come in as a grounded
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as possible. Sometimes some life happens or triggers just happen right? And we're not. And so a part of that also. And I have been in this place before, for sure
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had planned to do that exercise which is like this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But II know that for today at least, or for this afternoon, or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am not grounded enough to hold the space for this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so how can I either bring a different exercise in, or adjust that exercise so that it is aligned, and to know that it's okay, that that my people are still going to receive what they need to receive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If I am showing up fully present for them, and to the the level of exercise that I'm able to hold
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that moment. Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's another example of going with the flow. But in a in a in a little bit of a different way. Right? And I have certainly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): done that before.
Nina von Feldmann: What I'm hearing and what you're sharing, too, is also that authenticity piece in the vulnerability piece sharing that. And then there's a fine line that looks. Excuse me for interrupting. There's a fine line between over sharing what we said earlier, so that the love that it stays level. So, knowing the sweet spot to say, this is where I'm at. But I'm still holding.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because I got the big picture so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, and trusting right, trusting in that. So not, and not pushing ourselves because we thought we had to. I am such a big believer that if we are showing up present to ourselves and to the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we will always find the right way. The right amount. All of that, you know, and it will be exactly what the circle needs. It goes back to one of the principles of group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): leadership that I really live by, which is that every circle is perfect. every circle is perfect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's like, can we show up to see what is perfect for that group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on that day also with who we are on that day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm so glad you're bringing up. So I think it's important for everyone. And then the other piece that II wanted to just for now mentioned on this is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the tighter the container that we create in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more we.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as practitioners, can lay back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and control the energy so much right, and and trust it so again, back to that, you know, we looked at this like this metaphor. If the container is strong, we don't have to work so hard to control the the, the, what the energy is gonna do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Of course. Obviously we're always in leadership, right? And everything I just said before. But the the container matters a lot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with all this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I'm I'm glad you brought that forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've got a question for everyone, and while you think on it I'm just going to quick. Go turn off the heat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What have you noticed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I do or have done to show you that there is shared power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the container of the program? What are some things that you've noticed. I do, or have done. to let you know that there is shared power here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and give me one sec. I'll be right back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So Kate is saying, reading from the chat. Yes, right, not everybody can share voice to voice. It's a, you know. Sometimes the chat is like not the best thing for regulation reasons and and speed, and all that. But other times the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and really help with that shared power and the community, and and giving space for different voices and and elevating different voices. It's also saying the shares from the group. Yes, II am never the only the talking head right that it's it's I. I'm looking for wisdom from the group and shares from the from the group leaning into that group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wisdom, Nina saying, normalization, right? I'm constantly normalizing nobody, I hope.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is feeling ashamed about something that comes up as we're exploring or up block, you know, or if they are, then then I'm normalizing it right. That is a way of sharing power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David's saying, inviting everybody to be part of the conversation. Yes. Heather sing right like just little flourishes when I respond like, I'm so glad that you brought that up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Other times I might share, you know, somebody might share something, I might say that really touched me. Thank you for, or I learned something from that, too. Thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So how is it that we're respond that we're responding that lets our participants know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they're that they're valued, that they're sharing power here as well. I think we've all been. maybe not all of us. I shouldn't speak for all of us, but probably a lot of us. I know I have been in a container
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where the facilitator is just like the smartypants in the group, and you can tell there there isn't that level of respect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not just that the person being reacted to or responded to feels it. Everybody in the container feels it right, and then the the container gets weaker and and there's less trust
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a lot about shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Pointing out when participants have a particular expertise or nugget of wisdom that can help everyone. Yeah, I am not. I never wanna be the smartest person person in the room when I'm facilitating, and I never want. I don't want that pressure on myself, either, and I don't want the pressure on myself to know everything and have the most
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): expertise on every single little last thing. Right? So I know for those of you. I know your backgrounds. I know you have certain expertise. I'm gonna point to you. You honor you for that, and not ever say you must share or give your expertise. But give opportunity. If you want to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inviting people who haven't yet contributed to share. First, yeah, it's that's another piece that you want to be thinking about. It helps really. With this feeling of shared power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking in ideas when participants share and acknowledge, affirming them as if they were as important as the planned curriculum. Yes, right. It's not just my agenda. Here we are, all creating the agenda together to co-create the results that you wanna create. Right? I might. Yes, I'm an expert for sure. And I have ideas, and I'm leading. But I'm open to other ideas and welcome them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, more acknowledging and referencing, thoughtful points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): acknowledging people's healing and growth. Yes, no myth of perfection. Right? I make it very clear. I'm not on any pedestal here. No myth of perfection here for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Lift up others. Wisdom. Apologize if you misunderstand. Yeah. And Jen gave such a great example of that earlier making everybody feel like the smartest and wisest person in the room, and I feel that right. That's not just.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm doing it. I genuinely
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much respect and love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for each person in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Did I get that right when someone is sharing and asking a question. Yeah, have you noticed I do that a lot? That's a coaching skill when you're reflecting back or answer. Did I? Did I get that right? Let me. That's also a supporting a client in creating deeper awareness. There's a lot of reasons for that. But one of that is shared power for sure. Yeah. And Suzanne is also saying, asking for clarification.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne. Yeah, it's not I. Sometimes I do say, write this down. I never say it, but I am. It's not I, never! It's not in that condescending tone. Write this down tone is also part of power, and there's some people you go to, and they brush.
Suzanne Culberg: and it's like, I'm just not gonna write it down because my rebel's like, Nope.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. You have that rebel inside of you. Yeah. And you're right, it's all about energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So when when there is something important, I might say, write this down, or when somebody else says something important, have you noticed? I'll say this is a right. This is a right or downer for some of us, right? But it's all in the energy of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yep, shifting according to the group needs. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): keep on going with this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I think what I want to do next. You have this in your resource sheets. But it's important enough that I want to actually read
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through this together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hold on a second, I'm gonna share my screen. Let me just go what I need here. I thought I had it set up. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not suggesting that you need to see this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I wanna go through this. This is something that I often say in the beginning of programs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that helps set the container that helps create safety and that helps create shared power. And and I want us to look at this together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna read it out loud. I believe strongly that a diversity of voices and perspectives is what makes us stronger.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It makes us stronger as humans and practitioners, because it helps us practice checking our own stories and filters.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It helps us practice seeing the work through other people's eyes and experiences. It enhances our ideas and adds layers. It makes everything richer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So all that being said, I want to acknowledge that I might straight, cisgendered, able, bodied, and a somewhat neurot neurotypical woman who's come from a somewhat stable family of origin.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also come from a Jewish background, which in my case carries a lot of trauma.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so the way I see the world is only one way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and while I do talk a lot, as you all know, and have a lot to say and teach, I'm thrilled that the space that we're creating is comprised of different identities.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I want this to be a space where many experiences and perspectives are heard. As I said, your voice, your wisdom. Your perspective is very welcome and wanted here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm white, straight, Cis gendered, able-bodied, I need to consistently locate myself in our conversations as a person who has a lot of proximity to power and privilege.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and my commitment to you is that I check that as much as I can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and my request to you when you share in the group. voice to voice or through the chat, is that if you have any privilege, you check that as much as you can, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Think about what you're set, how, what you're saying will land on the hearts that have a different experience than you have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that we keep the space as safe and nurturing as we can for everyone. We're all here in this together, learning together how to be better to ourselves and everyone around us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as we journey together I'm gonna be asking you to hold a lot of nuance and complexity with me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I might share things that you completely disagree with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there is space here for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's no expectation that you agree with anything that I say. This is a space for you to get curious about your truth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So I'm not suggesting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can take this if you want and use it like word for word or not. Use all of the ideas, or use some, or use none. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): regardless of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's talk. Let's have a little bit of a discussion of what you see in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that helps create safety, helps create the container and helps create this idea of shared power. What I didn't include here is, I often in this part. Talk about how I want. Well, I say it up front, you know, I want people. I want to hear a lot of voices and perspectives, and you know I just share a little bit more how there's lots of opportunity for sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who'd like to share. I'd love to hear some voices on this. What? What are you seeing or learning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina saying, I'm clearly naming inclusivity. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly. Kelly, L. And then, Kelly Malia!
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I love that statement so much, and I just wanted to remark that when my first experience with you, after the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know 3 day offer that you did was in secret depths, and when you opened, saying you do, I don't expect you to agree with everything I say. It like hit my heart so deeply
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and really really struck me. And I remember it was right around the time that I was starting with my like bigger, longer, deep program. And I remember opening with that, and I could literally just feel everybody kind of sync into that and that place of no expectation of you to agree with me or with each other. And like, that's part of what we're creating here. And that's like the healing. Basically, it was all focused on the healing circle
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like, that's the healing circle, and and that to me is just so potent, because I think often, especially if we draw in or we are people pleasers, you know, to understand like you actually can disagree with me. Not only is it safe, but it's actually a space for our own transformation, individually and collectively, is so potent, so that I just wanted to
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): say that for me is really big.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad you're underlining it. Yes, right? We as expectations, as facilitators, we shouldn't need to have everybody agree with everything that we say right. And then it's like a power over move to to bring that into the container. So much more safety and empowerment is created
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when it's understood that nothing I'm saying is the truth with a capital T that everybody needs to believe. This is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm tossing things for you to find your own truth, cause so many
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of us, myself included not all of us, but many of us grew up in environments where there was only room for one truth
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And again back to this point of, in addition to the curriculum and and the results we're looking for. We can have our containers. Be corrective of some of this.
Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Melear-Hough: I really love this, too, and I appreciate you, including it here as a an example of a way to sort of name privileges, and
Kelly Melear-Hough: encourage participants to be aware of their privileges, and how those may come across to to people.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Who are, you know, Bipoc or LGBT, neuro diverse, you know, have some sort of
Kelly Melear-Hough: difference. I want to be more inclusive. I want to have a really inclusive group, but
Kelly Melear-Hough: like I've never had this model before for me. This type. Well, I'll say I
Kelly Melear-Hough: you're modeling it here, and I am in one other group now where I'm learning about it.
Kelly Melear-Hough: but I think it's really important, for
Kelly Melear-Hough: you know white cisgendered folk to
Kelly Melear-Hough: make space for people who. you know, having experience the same privileges
Kelly Melear-Hough: and
Kelly Melear-Hough: make it like explicitly known that they're they're welcome there. and that their voices that would like. It's important for their voices to be heard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're saying a couple of really important things, and I wanna pull on each of them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So number one. Ha! Whatever language you know your anyone is, any of you will do it in. But to let everybody know that they're welcome
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Everybody is welcome
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to let everybody know that their voice matters right, whatever language you're gonna use on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the the piece around the privilege, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for for those of you that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel it's important. You find it's important. I what I'll say more on that is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes, when we have a certain privilege, whatever it is like even things that we may not, that aren't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much talked about now in the space like going to college or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not, you know. Parents stayed together and and didn't divorce whatever. Whatever whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can tend to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): speak as if that is the only we forget that there's a whole spectrum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of experience. And so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I find that at the beginning of a program kind of speaking to that, letting people know that I I'm gonna I'm watching myself for it. I didn't. It's not in the words that I shared with you, but oftentimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at during that part, I'll say, and I might make mistakes, and if I do, please let me know, and please give me grace, you know. But then the other piece that Kelly is speaking to is. It's a way, then, to let everybody in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of make them aware of that as well, so that everybody can feel free to share, but also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of filter a little bit. First of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): am I making an assumption about everybody when really it's just my experience here.
good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Caroline, you had your hand raised. Did you want to share something? Or well, it's more of a hi! The
Caroline’s iPhone: What? What has happened to me before? And this may be too tactical. I don't know. Is that
Caroline’s iPhone: Then I'll get a couple people in the group who want to coach other people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So how did you trained us? Well, how did you do that? Yeah. So that does tales perfectly into what I was gonna talk about next, Kelly brought it up earlier, I think, around protocols and agreements. So it's part of protocols and agreements and and also just energy. But first of all, even though I didn't name it as an agreement in the writing I just shared. That was very much about. This is a shared agreement
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): among us, right? That that we're gonna be respectful, and and think about everybody else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in terms of people coaching other people that can happen a lot, especially if you have coaches and helpers and right, or even just people that care a lot. So there are a couple of things that you can do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about that. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number one, if it happens enough in your groups, you actually might want to make that part of a formal when you talk about the agreements in the group and don't, it's it's also important not to do it in a shaming way. Right? You can feel like everybody here is such a whole. It's so good. It's supporting other people. It's amazing. I love that this. We have this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, a lot of times, someone is gonna share vulnerably and want to be seen and heard in the share without needing suggestions, like Katie saying, without needing to be fixed, you know, and anything like that. Right? So please be mindful of it. Right? So you can number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work it into agreements.
Caroline’s iPhone: Okay, from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it could still happen right like. So if if it does, this is where shared power. But you are the leader.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it is okay sometimes to interrupt
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? It is not. It is not an abuse of power to sometimes interrupt people. So the person that is coaching
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can pause them. You could say, you know, hold, you know, I wanna pause you for a moment. You think. Thank you so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I sense. And it depends what the prompt was to have them share. Right? So it's always gonna sound a little bit different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you can say I'd love to read direct to you. You know. Let's say I'm the one that just shared the vulnerable thing, and the person's trying to under someone else is trying to coach me. You know. You know, Joanna, my senses that Joanna just shared something big and is, you know, what she needs most is just to be seen in that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm wondering if you wanna share how it impacted you or what you're learning for yourself from Joanna's share. Okay? So you. So you interrupt with love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and respect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then redirect. And then sometimes everyone again, someone has a really vulnerable share, and it's almost like you can feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before anyone even starts to coach or whatever like, you can feel the energy in the group people wanna help her or or them, because they just feel like Oh, my gosh! You know. And so some every now and again, when that comes up before anyone shares. I will say something like Caroline. Thank you so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for for that share I am seeing and honoring you and acknowledging you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in all of the. you know, and then you might just leave it at that. Have everyone take a deep breath in a deep breath out right, and just move on. Or then you might continue, ask the person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is there anything that you need more around this? Because sometimes even me, as the facilitator, I might need to check in to see, does this person wanna be coached? Or does this person just wanna be seen?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, right? So so lots of different ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then sorry I'm going off on a tangent. But I feel like all of these things are helpful for everybody. One other thing. Another way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This can show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is in person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Someone has just had a vulnerable share, and then people go to touch them, to hug them, to hand them to issues right. So it's like, not that the other people are saying things, but there, there is right, and oftentimes I'll I will say, you know. Please don't touch Caroline unless she requests it, let her stand in her power from that share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I may, as a teaching piece, I may even say to the group, you know, if you're feeling the need to do something right now for Caroline, I want to invite you to check in with yourself and see where you're feeling uncomfortable
Caroline’s iPhone: for you. Okay, so good. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. You're welcome. I'm glad you brought it up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. And Robin is saying it cuts people off from their feelings. Exactly. That's the discomfort. So it makes us feel good to help soothe people when that's not what they might need in that moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, I just wanna go back to like
Heather Newcomb. she/her: keeping that level playing field
Heather Newcomb. she/her: cause a strategy that I've used before. Is.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I call it the shock method, because statistics are out
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and you can pretty much find them anywhere. So like when I'm working with employers.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: to talk to them about creating inclusive workplaces and having open hiring practices. I'll start with a statistic that, like more people in this country have a criminal record than have a college degree.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: So when they have a policy of, you know, screening out running background checks
Heather Newcomb. she/her: through their onboarding process like, they're automatically excluding this big, huge pool.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and it just. I think it's such an important example of privilege, you know. I'll just be honest like I have come
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even myself over the last few years
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to check myself on that where I might say like, Oh, it's gonna land her in prison, you know, like as a joke or this, that, and the other thing right. But that's coming from such a privileged place, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): neither me nor anyone in my family has ever been in prison, and it's kind of a a power over move to even say things like that. Right? So not that I'm all. I'm very much not about being the politically correct police, and like feeling so scared of anything we're gonna say, that's not what this is about, but it is important to understand the different privileges and biases that we have.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah. And I think it's also important to, you know.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: So one thing you know, I try to be aware of is using people first language.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: So I don't work with, you know, inmates or offenders, I work with incarcerated people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, thank you for all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's go back a little bit to agreements
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and protocols. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it can be really helpful in the beginning, as you're setting the container to talk about shared agreements in the group. We've already started to talk about this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit. And you know, every group is gonna have different agreements.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you want to think through for your group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are some of those agreements? And and some of it can be really personalized, like what heather was just sharing that that might be an agreement around language
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a group great. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oftentimes I'll give you some other examples. Kate has a great one in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Respecting physical boundaries, not everybody wants to be touched
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, and as as a follow up to that I in when right before we go into exercises in person where touch may be involved.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II will bring that up and say, you know, before you go to touch your partner, or this, that, or the other thing have a conversation, if they feel comfortable, which are there any places that are off limits? Or how would they like for this exercise to happen right? If it's one partner holding space for another. That's that's a piece of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But another example. There, you know, it can show up. There's lots of different examples. But another example. At the beginning of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the shadow retreat, the in person shadow. So shadow can bring up a lot for people because we look in places that their egos don't want them to look.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the agreements is that if you are starting to feel triggered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and all you want to do is run out of the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Of course, if you need to leave momentarily to take care of yourself, please do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but don't, don't just leave, and and then don't come back for the rest of the day. Right it, you know. Find me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either come back in the room or wait for the next break. But.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): please, you know, as we journey into this, it's it's important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So sometimes there can be agreements like that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes, at the beginning of a program, II go through agreements
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some programs. I don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't necessarily verbally go through and and do it, but it's in the contract or the welcome packet. It just depends on the group and what we're doing and what the scope is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes II share them. Sometimes there's certain things I actually ask people to raise their hands to to. Actually, yes, I agree. So you can kind of, you know, it's all. It's all what? It feels right, what feels best for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the group?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me pause on that. Any
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts or questions on agreements.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kelly, just you can just go ahead. Take yourself off mute.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was trying to find that raise hand. I just have this question, and it's related to what happened in the same group that I mentioned. And I know you know about the scenario. But I'm thinking about it now in in this framework, and that is that we had a group. Small group container had done all the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): group agreements like there was incredible communication doing really deep healing work in there.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And it was a group of people, you know, who are change makers, and you know a number of them working in Dei work and doing social justice work.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And at 1.1 person it was. It's big, convoluted story that I don't need to go into. But basically
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): a white woman spoke a term that affected a woman who is African, American. and it was something that she said the and she called her in.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and what was said was, actually.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I knew all the back story. And so it had come from someone who's actually African American.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I also, I've done racial justice work with this woman. And I ended up basically doing a nervous system regulation
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): experience like just to like pause. Like all of the agenda, stopped. We did this thing to kind of regulate the group. and it was said very lovingly. But there was a rupture that happened.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I'm just thinking now that there weren't actually
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): agreements violated. And I think where I ended up feeling really stuck and and ultimately not very successful, was like how much of that was mine to work with in that moment. I'm not. I'm not creating a di space like I have it written in my agreement that it is an antiracist space, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): they were all on a journey. And all working through this so like people have signed it like, that's the people I'm drawing in. But there was something that happened. I reached out individually to both of the people after and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but the one who had spoken the thing
was really struggled and kind of shut down after that point, and basically refused to talk with me or others, and I know that that's not my responsibility to fix it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but and that I did what I could, but it didn't feel very satisfying to me, and I'm just wondering, like how much of that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): is our responsibility to continue to attend to within the group. I addressed it in the group. I addressed it in note to them.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But yeah, so II will confess that it, like always hits in the back of my mind like, Hmm. What would we do if that happened again?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it's such a good question. So a couple pieces. You know. One aspect of this I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can't answer, because I'm not an expert, which is, I think I'm similar to you, and that I've done a lot of Dei. I've participated in a lot of Dei training and anti racism training. But I it's not mine to, you know, to to kind of consult on those aspects.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But in terms of the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no matter what the you know, issues and and the race thing might be a little bit different. So I wanna say that, too. But you know, when there's a rupture, and sometimes we can just in the moment, because of the container, you know, and just because of where everybody's nervous system is at in the moment, or their their beliefs, or whatever we can repair right then and there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Other times the repair period is longer, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am. This isn't, you know, truth. But I'll just say this is true for me. I'm kind of like a little bit of a I don't know what's the term like a hound dog. With that II don't know. Like I I'm gonna keep on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as much as I can, reaching out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the understanding that I am. No, II am no super woman, you know. There's some things that are not gonna kind of shift, and it's out of my control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But as much as I can until it feels like I am being disrespectful by continuing to reach out. I'm gonna keep on letting the individual know that I am there for them, that I am there for them. If they want to talk, I am there for them that I am there for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that's the best that I can do.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I will share, just to normalize this for everyone that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the last 20 plus years of leading groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can think of 2, 3 times where it hasn't. It just never got resolved, you know. And II don't wanna pretend like. I don't hold some of that, you know. Heavy in my heart. II do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I also know that I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as much as I could at the time. II did, you know, for wherever I was at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the time. so I don't know if that's satisfying or not. That that's what I got on that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It's interesting. What it's very satisfying. And part of it is just feeling
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like it's satisfying to just sit with the dissatisfaction within myself, but also feeling
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): that I did everything I possibly could until the place where I actually felt like I was becoming disempowered reaching out. And and I, as I'm thinking about it now, I'm like, Oh, if I actually step into this way of leading I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it was. I had so much discomfort because I knew all the back story for both of them. I knew them intimately. I'd done healing work with both of them, and I knew there was like so much goodness there, and I just wanted to fix it, but I was coming to it from this place and wanting to fix it, and they had to choose that it was fixable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right. And everybody's evolution and learning is different. You know. Ultimately, we we can't control the the journey, that that of learning that anyone right, we can create a journey through the curriculum. But then we can't control the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, so it sounds like, you're really seeing some of that it was about you
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): good and how I can hold it differently and and not take all the responsibility on me. Yeah, thank you.
Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else on agreements.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): everything that we've been talking about today, and so much of everything we've talked about in in life changing courses. But you know, particularly around power and shared power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and is related to also being trauma informed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's a term that's thrown a lot around a lot these days. And I wanna just briefly share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how I understand the term and how I use the term. And then we'll we'll talk about its its applications to group work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So to be trauma informed group leaders means that we are aware that any individual that we connect with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): may
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have experienced a traumatic experience
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and may likely to a small or large extent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): become retriggered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we therefore understand some of the more helpful ways to communicate and interact with people in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that we don't inadvertently retrigger
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): being a trauma informed group leader. Also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): someone who understands and considers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyone who comes from a background of bias
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has experienced a level of trauma in one way or another, right? So historical trauma.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's understood.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It also means that as leaders, we are aware, or in the process of becoming more aware
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of our own trauma responses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that we're consistently working with them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Being trauma-informed doesn't mean we're working like it's our job to work directly with trauma.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it does mean that we understand that trauma can be come up in any moment. That goes, for some of you have heard me say this before that goes, for if you're a coach, if you're a therapist.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you cut people's hair right versus someone, you might cut their hair and that triggers something. It doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong, right? But we want to be aware that that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as human beings in this world that we live in. We are all walking with it in one way or another. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we wanna have some skills we can't ever guarantee, not retriever, right. But we wanna have some skills that that can help us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 1 million pause there, does that make sense so far? Just kind of as a general definition.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kelly, go ahead.
Kelly Melear-Hough: You made a statement. I think it was the second statement you made that I didn't really understand something about if you have bias, if a person has bias they have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if anyone has an ex comes from a history of bias. So if if if rate around race or religion, or gender or sexual. You know that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): chances are there's some trauma, either in their lifetime or historically, ancestrally, culturally. But the the truth is that it's for all of us marginalized communities is a better way of saying it. Thank you, Kelly, but the truth is that it it's it's for everybody in all of us, because we live in the culture that we live in.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. And II share all of this also. This, this definition cause. I hear a lot. Practitioners, and especially the kinds of practitioners that are attracted to my community because you are so ethical and ethics are are just such a priority to you that you know I hear a lot this, like I'm I'm scared. I'm gonna cause harm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And, by the way, that's back to our power conversation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I hope this actually helps to to dissipate some of the fear to say again, like cutting somebody's hair can do it, you know, like it's it's we're all walking with it. We can't. Here's another way of saying it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If we're gonna lead groups, we can't avoid trauma period end of story. We're all walking with it, so we may as well not be scared of it. Let's let's just know some school, some skills to to work with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That makes sense.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And a lot of what we've learned so far here in this space addresses it. Everything we've been talking about today, everything we looked at in the beginning of a journey, setting the container in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, creating the inspiration, speaking to resistance. Yeah. All of those pieces help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I wanna go over some other pieces. This is not comprehensive at all, because so much of it has to do with the particular type of coaching or leading
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or modalities that you bring. So I'm assumed that I'm assuming that if you've been trained in a modality.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you you. You know you've been. You've learned some of the trauma, informed things specific to that modality for those of you that have been through sacred depths or advanced depth. You know, we look at that specifically for one on one coaching work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But so so this is not comprehensive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But some things that are important to think about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): agency.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, this is also again related to shared power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in every interaction with your groups. We'll talk specifically about a group setting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you wanna be mindful that you're creating a space where you are allowing for your your participants full agency.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does that mean
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that your participants are empowered? Yeah. And there's that word power in their choices.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're empowered to have their own opinions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're empowered in their actions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? I want to sit this exercise out. It doesn't feel right for me as an example
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having their agency means that the understanding that the power lies with them. their power lies with them and doesn't come from you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as we've been saying before, that we don't have any power over them, and that our opinions, ideas, and thoughts aren't more important, smarter or better
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than theirs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All of the trauma informed practices that we're gonna look at next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I shouldn't say all but a lot of them are related to this idea of agency right? Which is basically personal power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie, did you want to share something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we keep keep on going? I thought I saw your hand raised.
Dr. Josie: Yeah, just quickly, because I I mean, I'm in veterinary medicine and kind of a different feel. But I hear this trauma informed, thrown out left and right and up and down. And I really really highly appreciate you giving the definition that you did. I mean, I've done personal trauma work like
Dr. Josie: 25 years on myself. But you know, I think, yeah, it's very helpful to have this definition, because I think it's a little out of hand in some cases. And I don't see people saying that, actually even understanding what they're talking about. So it's yeah. It's thrown a lot. It's misused a lot, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm glad that that landed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pacing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pacing is important, not just from a trauma, informed perspective, but just from a transformation pers right? We've looked at this in terms of slow it down. Slow it down, slow it down. You've you've all observed, like we go slowly. We do. So much happens in this container. Right? But I'm not. It's not jump-tum jump. Jump
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you go to fast.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not allowing for a more regulated rhythm
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You'd wanna go too slow, either. By the way, right slow it down also has. It's right, it's limit. And then it's too slow. Right? So you always wanna be thinking you wanna be attuning to the energy you wanna be knowing who you're in front of, and you want to ask yourself what's the right pace
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for right now, right? And what's the right pace for right now? Sometimes easier to do with a one on one client, for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we want to be thinking about that with the group. and particularly in the beginning of a group, as we're setting the container, we might want to go a bit slower
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to ease in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to share a couple of these, and then we can open up for some questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Transparency.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just think for a moment, if you've ever been in a group, and you can tell that the leader is either like either outright lying or it's like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of course we're not revealing all of ourselves and all the things. That's not what I mean by transparency. But it's like important things are being hidden.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The the leader isn't being transparent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's what happens is then there's a less safety in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Which is so much of what we're talking about today. So if, for example, if you, as we've spoken about, if you make a mistake.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be transparent about having made that mistake.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something that is sometimes harder to do, if you're if you're giving people an assignment or sharing something, and you haven't been able to totally do it yourself. People will smell that if you don't right like they they will. It is in the air.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Be transparent, right? I'm still not perfect at this, or I've gotten this far with this or this sometimes works. But I revert back right, whatever whatever the thing is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me pause there. Anything on pacing or transparency
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I just have something quick on transparency, because
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, I use transparency a lot with my work, because sometimes the clients I work with get in this pattern of being the victim, you know, or you know.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and they get into this story that
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I'm targeted. It only happens to me. And so I make sure to have that element and transparency, so that I can reassure them. It's not just them. I'm not targeting you. I everyone else is being treated the same way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad you're bringing that into the conversation. So important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. And yeah, it is. People can feel targeted sometimes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else on pacing or transparency before we look at some other pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts or questions that are coming up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): consent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is a place where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even practitioners with the best of intentions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just because of all the even forget about our past, just the ways that this has been modeled in the transformational industry. Ha! Ha! Are not always kosher right? But again, to allow for that agency, and being trauma informed, we always want to get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): consent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'll give a couple of examples of of what this means in groups. So we already spoke about the touching piece. Right? Never. Practitioner, never touch without asking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): letting others know in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about that as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here's another issue around. Consent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You must to do this in this way. that this can be a piece of homework
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're giving right something for them to do on their own.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but also an exercise within the group. Now there's sometimes there are guardrails for safety. Right? So once I took a group to do a ropes course right or once I took a group to like a magical. We're kind of doing some kind of baptism in in the the woods, and with magical water. There's some safety like you must do it this way. Literal physical safety, right? Yes to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you know, I'll give an example. sometimes I do an exercise where we're kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connecting more deeply with the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ability to be nurtured. You know, it's it's kind of work on the mother archetype and allowing for some mothering. And we do this like beautiful exercise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And some people want to be totally like touched and petted and held in somebody's arms. Frank.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but other people, what's right for them is, don't touch me, but you're going to give me energy, and I'm going to take it in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So allowing people to do an exercise in the way that is right for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): By the way, in a way that is right for them. There can sometimes be resistance there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like it. It might not be that that's aligned. It might be that that's like scary. But actually, that's the next place of discomfort that is really great for them to go to. You want to use all of your coaching skills a on that right and help someone sometimes find what's the the right place for them where they're in the stretch that they're ready to make.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But they're not in a place that's not right for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The next one I'm gonna mention. If you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you may have done this before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from a certain kind of like modality. And again, nothing I ever say is the truth of the capital. T. But I don't want you to judge yourself, and just kind of check it out for you any kind of I went ahead and did an energy check on you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I went ahead and read your chakras. I you know, and I asked the ancestors about you. If you haven't gotten consent first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not ethical, and it's not trauma informed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? We're always asking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): permission first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hopefully, you've all noticed sometimes when I go to someone shares and we go to coach a little bit, one on one I'll often say, Is it okay? If we go deeper
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): getting too set.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you've probably noticed when I invite people to close their eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also say, and if that is not comfortable or right, for you keep your eyes open right? Just close your eyes. That's a consent thing. And for some people that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have experienced trauma being told to close your eyes can be figuring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's so many different examples of this. But I'm just.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm just kind of naming some. We sort of touch this. But just again everything is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You give different options, for how an exercise can look
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for different people. Right. So in case one way isn't right for them, they can maybe do it a different way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We also spoke about time and going over time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, in general, you want to try not to go over time. Sometimes you have to. If it's the case, let people know that they can leave if they have to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But let me pause on consent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thoughts, questions, more suggestions, or scenarios on consent, mark Lee.
Margalit: So I have a quick question on consent. I lead a group every month. We're into our sixth month. and this month I've asked them I'm going to collect their phones.
Margalit: I don't want them to use it. We do have a constitution which is like an agreement that they're not to use their phones. I dislike being their parent. I don't wanna be.
Margalit: and they abuse it. So.
Margalit: And they said, Okay, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that? Yeah, I'm glad you're asking this. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it were me again, I never have the the right answer. I'll just say like, if it were me, I might put a caveat in there. So, and it's because again I think of privileges. So I'm sensitive to that, because I have a mother who's very sick, who can like end up in the emergency room at any given moment, and I might need to be there, and so not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just not having access for a long period of time in case
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might not feel great for me right now I know that there are programs out there. I've heard of where you go away for a week to the program. And and it said, before you go into the program. You're not allowed to have your phone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if that is an agreement before it starts. That's that's one thing right. But if it's in the middle. I think with that, what I might do is say, if it is okay with you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would really like to take your phone. You explain why, why, it's a big benefit, how it's really go going to be great for them, and then I might say, but of course, if if you have a circumstance where it's it's going to be not okay for you or feel not safe. If you don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me know, and let's come up with a plan B for that for how you can have the phone, but still for for you and everybody to get the benefits of. Why I'm doing this.
Margalit: Yeah, you bring up a good point. We break every hour. And there's a mom who has young kids who doesn't feel comfortable. So we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we had plan. B. But yeah, but I am taking. I was taking away their agency. So that's helpful. Thank you. No, no, I it sounds like it, not complete. But I'm glad you're asking for all of us. Right? So it's it's such a great example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. I love the idea of having phones, too. I love. I just have to say II loved in person work before everybody had cell phones. So it's better. Well, I just don't like. I don't want to be your parents like, you know, and they say Sneak, and I'm like, Oh, God!
Margalit: How do I deal with this?
Margalit: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good Mina.
Nina von Feldmann: I'm so glad this conversation is coming up. III come from a world where everything is energy and and it's abundant, and we
Nina von Feldmann: again I come from the privilege of. We have our own agency with their energetic field.
Nina von Feldmann: That is belief system that I operate on. But this is always like II can't wait till this comes up in a group, because I'd like to feel into this and hear more about it.
I have a tendency with my clients and my friends. If they're going through a hard time, or they're out to go into surgery. I let them know I'm sending you good energy.
Nina von Feldmann: I always have this little voice in the back of my head that's like, Oh, don't say that unless you ask them first, and then I think well.
Nina von Feldmann: I'm just sending energy through the field. It can do what it wants. I'm not actually going in there and doing energetic surgery or etheric anything, or mucking around, or Chakra Justin I. That's just not even my practice, because I have a different cosmology.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II mean, I'll I'll see same thing. You know. I'm sending love. I'm sending good vibes, my sense. And again, not a truth, or the capital T. That's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my sense is that that's different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had surgery last May, and a couple of just like amazing. Actually, they were all clients and students got in touch with me. And we're like, Hey, can I do distance Riki, on you that day, you know, and and so that, I think is different than sending love, which, by the way, to all of them, I said, Yes, thank you, but I might not have so I there, I think there is a difference between sending love or good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): energy versus freaky or surgical energy. You know energy, energy, surgery or anything like that.
Nina von Feldmann: Yeah, yeah, it just thank you for saying that cause there is a distinction that I think is valuable, because then we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So I'm I'm really glad you said that. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. I'm I'm glad you brought that up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else on consent before we look at a couple of other things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Another thing to be aware of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be aware of the feeling questions that you ask.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll tell you what I mean by this. So be aware
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the feeling questions that you asked. So, as we've already looked at, we want it is a transformational tool to activate all 4 levels of learning and processing. Right? And we want to activate the heart levels and the body levels spare. You know all of that. Yes, amazing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said, there are some
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feeling questions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you might want to either avoid
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or only ask if you've been properly trained.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So any variation of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how did it feel in your body when X trauma happened?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You probably, unless you're here, and it's within your scope. You probably want to stay away from asking somebody what it felt like in their body when when they experienced a traumatic moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you that are in advanced, or if some of you are registered for the next advance, you know that I teach a really powerful technique where we go back in time to certain memories.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it is a somatic technique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But even in a memory, reconsolidation, technique or technique, where we go back to a different moment in time. You you want to be well trained in that, and not go straight into. How did how did it feel in your body when right, especially if you know that it's a big thing that happened for that person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I always like to just point out that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I think maybe you've all heard me say this before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is always helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is to support our participants. to know the difference between
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the resources that they have in their present moment versus what happened then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to come back to how does it feel in your body now? Right is very different. Or how does that fear feel in your body right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): versus them? Creating that cognitive awareness, and then the somatic ability to draw into the resources of of the now are hugely helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How did it feel in your body then? Only only with certain training and certain situation on that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know what I just said could open up like a lot of questions and fears. And so first, I just wanna say, don't be scared right. Don't! Don't be scared if you are doing that kind of deeper somatic work. Get, you know, get trained.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so don't be scared. But just be aware, particularly of any variation of that question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any thoughts on that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Veronica, any variation of how did it feel in your body when the trauma happened?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How did it feel in your body now, and you know well, I'm not, you know I won't actually go there for this. Well, I'll leave it at that. Okay,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the right to privacy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trauma informed tech
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any power or skill, power, informed skill or or just foundational piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So never assume that any participant in a group is going to want to tell you more about a situation, or should it tell you more about a situation?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or maybe they want you as the facilitator, to know more? But they don't want everybody in the group to know more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that moment. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So would it be okay if you told us more about that? Would it be okay if you shared more about XY or Z, whatever they're talking about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then another
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trauma informed piece to consider is to avoid labeling.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make sure that you don't see your client, as you know their label as an addict, as an abused child, a as a heather was speaking a little bit to this before in a little bit of a different way, in terms of language. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the the moment we label someone, whether we we use. We actually say it, or we just think it is the moment that there's a power over dynamic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even someone will look at this more on Sunday. When we look at resistance archetypes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even someone who is just like showing up as the ultimate victim in the group. And they're so negative, and there's so helpful, and everything is so wrong, right? We don't want to look
is that them is the the whole of them? Is that archetype that they are the victim.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want to understand that there is a part of them that is activated right now, that is, in that the victim energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So we're not labeling who they are as a person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that comes back also to seeing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our participants as whole and complete, which is so important when we're talking about power with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, I'd love to hear before we hit 4, 30.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's really feeling important and resonating for you around these issues of agency and content a consent
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and safety and being trauma informed. And what questions do you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like to share what's resonating for you? What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What questions do you have? What else do you want to bring to the conversation and share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather before I take you? I just want to see if there's anyone that hasn't shared lately that would like to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or maybe your share will get us started off
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Go ahead.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, it's real quick. I just I wanted to add,
Heather Newcomb. she/her: also like intention versus impact. And I think it goes hand in hand with transparency.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know. So like, if something you say impact someone in the way you didn't intend it, you know. Just be transparent, like.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, exactly. I know a lot of the. But what I meant was is actually not making space for how this
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I apologize. You know it landed for you in that way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm glad that you're you're bringing that in. And I think that's a piece of not needing to be right, because when we're like, no, but what I meant was, you know, sometimes it's important to explain what the intention was, so that the other person can there can be repair but at the same time it's it. It can also, if we harp on it, it's like we're not really honoring the other person's experience.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: And also when I
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I think that's a part of facilitating, you know.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: So if there's 2 participants and something one participant says like, I think that's where the facilitator can lead the group through that restorative reparative
Heather Newcomb. she/her: to reset the container. Almost.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, absolutely so. I'm glad that you're bringing this up right cause. Sometimes there is a a rupture, and the container does need to be reset
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So most situations it's not. You're gonna be able to address it, and everybody is good to go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But every now and again there might be a rupture that is big enough that actually, you really do have to stop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you're doing. You have like and really speak to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you know it's always gonna look different, depending on the situation, you know. It might be that more people need to share and express.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then you're gonna want to orchestrate a way to come back together to reset the container, and it can look many different ways. Sometimes it's just a matter of coming back to agreements and intentions and resetting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes, if it's in the room, maybe hands will be held or things will be thrown into the container. You know. Words it it really depends. But it's it's just. It's a good point that you're bringing up that sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things need to be reset.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Oh, go ahead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sorry. I'm gonna go off on a tangent based on that, just because I think it's helpful for everybody sometimes. And this goes for one on one work, too. By the way. Sometimes we're gonna reset a container, not because there was a rupture, but just because things kind of went off the rails
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit. So, for example, let's say, part of your group container is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): everybody is gonna be meditating once a week. I don't know. I'm just making it up right. That's part of the work of the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you start the container, and everybody is is meditating every week. And then you notice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 6 weeks in that most people aren't meditating right? Or another example of this is, you notice, 6 weeks in, even though you started off strong in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in terms of people not talking over each other in the group. But somehow that's devolved right. And you're realizing somewhere along the way that a lot of people are talking over each other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're gonna wanna reset the container on these things and take responsibility as the the as the leader, as the facilitator. You know, I've noticed, and I take responsibility. We've gotten to this place where somehow we're talking over each other, and I know it's no bad intentions. And because we're all excited and we have opinions, and we wanna help each other, whatever the the topic is that you're resetting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then you explain. And it's not helpful, or it's not as helpful as it could be for the group. Because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then you name the reasons why.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I'd like for us to reset the energy, reset the container on this, and, you know, come back to an agreement that we're not going to talk over each.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Sorry, I think I may have spoken over you heather. No, no, I actually spoke over you. I just wanted to say, like I had a situation one time when it wasn't even something that happened in the room where we were having the group. There was a fire drill, so we all had to exit the building, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had to reset the container when we all came back in. So so yeah, after something like a fire drill. And also if it's a multi day thing, the beginning of each day. Now, on day 2, you're not gonna take as much time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to set the container as you did on day one or after the fire drill. You're probably not going to take as much time as you to set. Reset the container as you did in the beginning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when there is a break. There is a resetting of the container, even in small ways. I don't know if you all notice, but when we come back from our lunch breaks I never jump back into curriculum. I always spend a few minutes on sharing what's been resonating for the morning from the morning. That's just a mini way of coming back into the energy in the set container of the morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you want to go further than that, you can do a short grounding when you come back from great breaks, or you know something like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good diva?
Deva Munay: Yeah, I just so much of this is so important in that comment of if we are going to lead groups, we are going to face trauma. And just
Deva Munay: that, it's so present in the culture. And then people coming to groups that? Yeah, just. I know I've done a number of these 5 day retreats, and at the end, by the end I'm just like, Oh, my goodness, you know, as people
Deva Munay: unpack what they're holding, just there's so much trauma in the world that it it is unavoidable. And just to hold that safe container.
Deva Munay: And yeah, how important all of this information is. So thank you.
Deva Munay: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for underlining that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. Well, we are just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at 4 30, almost at 4 30 before. If you're gonna go for the day before you go, regardless of whether you're staying or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love for everybody to take a moment and write down 2 things on a personal level. What is the the biggest takeaway from today? Hopefully, there's a lot. But what's one of the biggest. And then practitioner-wise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is an important takeaway? One of the most important takeaways from today?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that Kate is sharing. Gabormati says that we're on the spectrum of trauma. It's so true.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! And then, if you have to go for the day, go. But if you can share in the chat. What you're taking away I'd love for you to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're you are done for the day like I said earlier, I'll re record the next portion, so you'll have it. Don't have any Fomo
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sting, but I can't anymore.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It'll be recorded right? So you're not going to miss anything, and we're not. We're not having official curriculum, and if you want to keep on going we will do that. So what we'll do is we'll take a break until
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 4 40. Yeah, let's go until 4, 40. Take a break, and then we'll come back and it's open space for any questions on anything. Curriculum exercises. If it's a juicy facilitation question you ask, I might hear it, but save it for tomorrow, so that everybody can hear it together. We'll see and I'm here for anything that you need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's come back at 4, 40,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if not, I will see you tomorrow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so if you're here and hanging out. and you're back from your break. If you can. If it's okay to put your camera on. So I know you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll tell you how what I'm envisioning for our time together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate, thanks for letting us know that you're here. So we might go until 6, or maybe we'll end before then we'll we'll kind of see and let unfold what wants to unfold. What I'm envisioning is first just opening up a space for questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know, getting any questions you have answered on your curriculum, on your exercises where you're feeling stuck. you know any of those pieces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or an inner piece, if you'd like some coaching on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we'll kind of see where our energies are, if we might just be done at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if not, and we have time we can. We can maybe do. I don't know. I have some ideas. We'll see. Maybe nothing exciting like do a breakdown of an exercise. We can take a look at some of the facilitation and curriculum pieces from earlier today that I let us through and break some of that down. See how it goes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But first I just wanna make space for questions and brainstorming. So anything that you need anything that you've been wanting to ask me anything that you that would be helpful for us to take a look at together as a group. You can even share your screen, if it's like, can we look at this exercise in my curriculum, or any anything like that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Deva?
Deva Munay: This is more just a follow-up to the trauma.
Deva Munay: and recognizing, I've had a lot of people with some pretty severe trauma that have come to the workshops, and and this last one I did in September.
Deva Munay: There was a couple that was there, and they were very much like, you know, we don't want to be in any pictures. We're kind of high profile.
Deva Munay: Then at the end, they were like, we would really love to come to your studio, and I'm like my heart's racing cause. I'm like, I don't know if this was ethical. But I was kinda like, who are these people? So I did a Google of their names just. And I found out like that. The man's father had killed his mother, and the woman had like was in the middle of this huge divorce, and her child had died, and
Deva Munay: it just
felt like I was like, Oh, my God! Should I not know this information? And yet they were wanting to come to the studio?
Deva Munay: So I guess, like, I'm just asking, like ethically.
Deva Munay: that's probably not okay, right to Google who your clients are. Or I'm just curious what your thoughts are. And then they might be coming to this next workshop in February.
Deva Munay: and I'm kind of like. Oh, now I know this thing about them. But I found out in a way that maybe I should. I was poking around too much to find out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my gosh! I love this question because nobody has ever asked this for me before, and II haven't considered it before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. I don't know. I really I don't know. You're stumping me. There's a and I'd love to hear other. You know what other people's wisdom on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll just share just what. What I'm hearing inside of me is a little bit of both like on on the one hand. Yeah, it could be unethical to do a Google search
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on someone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): On the other hand. they shared that their high profile
Deva Munay: I don't know, you know. I really don't know the answer. I mean, I could tell there was something really deep cause like. And then on the lunch breaks like I. And I feel like other people in the group knew. So is this very interesting? And then I also.
Deva Munay: you know, just. I've worked at this big kind of 5 star resort for a long time, and I'd work with a lot of like movie stars. And I'm like, I never know who these people are. I don't watch movies. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I've done. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna Google, and I'm like, Oh, they won da da da, da, and they were in that film, but I never really knew. So then I was like, Oh, I've done, you know. It's like my little like, who are these people? Yeah, well, so and I wanna get. And it, II don't. If your hand is raised for this, I'm gonna get you in a second. But before I guess I wanna get a little more into
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are you actually asking? So are you asking, is it ethical to Google people or not? Is there a question about moving forward with moving forward? Because if they come to this next retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know at the end they were like, Oh, my God! We totally want to see you. We love you, David. And so how were they? Maybe wanting to be like transparent like thinking about transparency? I have a just one question. Were they able to be in the last retreat in appropriate ways? Was the retreat appropriate for them? Did they did they show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inappropriate ways.
Deva Munay: How do you mean appropriate, like
Deva Munay: cause you mentioned trauma, you know, did did the were with whatever trauma they were holding. Were they able to little love bubble between the 2 of them, and like just that, they were always together and no, they were fine. They were shared beautifully. And just.
Deva Munay: yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. And then. so the just say the question again.
Deva Munay: So I think more, I'm thinking, should I be transparent with them and be like I.
Deva Munay: No, you both have been through so much. I'm so glad you're here this week is all about nourishing your heart, and I know you both have experienced some big trauma. I feel maybe I it wasn't ethical. But I want you to know I Googled your name and know what. How does that feel for you? Right? So I think this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): personal. There might be an actual ethics
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): question here, but it might be a personal, energetic thing for you to be able to show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fully. So I guess my question for you is, how does that feel in your body to share what you just spoke.
Deva Munay: Hmm!
Deva Munay: It feels a little like scary about, if like oh, what if they're mad at me? But then it also feels like it just kind of takes the pressure cooker off of like. And if I was like, I just really wanna safeguard your privacy. And maybe and also they were like, we don't wanna be in pictures. But they were sitting right next to me so like I couldn't use any of the pictures, and and maybe say, you know, if you wanna be kind of
Deva Munay: make sure you're not in pictures, let's make sure you're kind of in a different space in the room. And I just wanna really honor everything that you've been through so that you can get the most out of this. I think if that feels right in your body, that is at all that you just shared. I'm glad you have it on recording. If you wanna go back to it like that is, that is the way to go the the one consulting piece II will.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kind of task is to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to not do it right before the retreat to get in touch with them some days before or weeks before, and you don't do it just like as they're coming in. So have a separate email beforehand. Exactly. So
Deva Munay: yeah, so that there's time and space for to discuss if feelings come up.
Deva Munay: and also they I don't. I don't think they'll choose not to come, but they might, knowing that so that they have that option and and that agency. And it's not this weird last minute feels really, really good. And then I'm being transparent and honoring, and then they have the option of like, oh, she knows
Deva Munay: we
Deva Munay: how I can hold space for them, and maybe I could even say I just you know I looked and saw what has happened. I want to be able to hold space for you in the most, you know powerful way.
Deva Munay: knowing that this could bring up an issue, and if you are going to share with them, II also just really love what you said before. I'm I'm sorry
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if that feels like I crossed a line, you know, didn't realize until afterwards that it might be an invasion of privacy, and I want to apologize in advance for that.
Deva Munay: Yeah, that feels really good. Thank you that I that's really helpful. Thanks. You're welcome. And then, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just know, you can't control how they react.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So you're doing what feels most aligned and ethical and loving and supportive and and all the things hopefully, it will only strengthen the relationship.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you just you never know how someone is gonna react
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, thank you. Yeah, thanks for bringing that forward, Josie, did you want to add something to that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I didn't know if your hand was raised for that?
Dr. Josie: Yeah, I mean, I was gonna add, I've been doing like one on one house calls for like 25 years down in Miami, and I had an assistant with me for a while, and I'm never one to Google things. I mean, it's come up in later years than it was earlier. But he would like look up
Dr. Josie: because I like to walk in. And I like to meet people just as they are, and I do have a lot of high profile clients, so I don't want to feel like, Oh, my gosh! This is such and such. We're going to their house and get all weird like that. But I would have an assistant who would Google stuff. And then he would. I would. I got to the point where I would just tell him I don't want to hear about it until I actually go and meet this person
Dr. Josie: because I get when I'm one on one, especially over an animal, people will help reveal so many of their secrets and trauma and stuff. To me. It's like I feel like I'm like.
Dr. Josie: I'm a confessional booth in many ways. So but yeah, that's I was just saying that. But then sometimes, if I'm wondering like, I'll go go to the first appointment, and then I'm like God. That person seems really familiar, but I'm horrible with moving. I think you know, I think part of the point you're making, which is a really good one, just energetically for us sometimes it's good not to know how famous or accomplished right until a person tells us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we're looking to see how famous or accomplished they are, it's something about our energetics, and it comes back to that power that I feel power, we feel worse. It's different if they share it. Yes, but if we're looking for it, we might want to look inside of our ourselves around some of that, too. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah. Ii was thinking about just how important it is to do our own inner work around it. So even if it was from a place of I'm curious. What makes them high profile like what I hear, Dave. Oh, there you are, David. What I hear David saying is, I wanna show up in a trauma informed way, and really make space for you, and I feel like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): for you to lead from that place and just get really clear and clean in your own energetic around. It is what's most important. And when you said, I think that I looked you up, and I feel like that might have been kind of unethical for me. It feels like you just pop the bubble of the container.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and it feels like you're not holding like I was putting myself in their shoes, and I felt like not held when you said that, and so I would just offer up that you get really clear in your energy now, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and work whatever you need to work around having look them up, and what that means to you. To me it actually feels really benign. II just I just feel like looking people up is so commonplace now.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But if there's something in you that doesn't feel right, I would say, work that piece.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then I just wanna offer up for whatever this is worth. But II once was teaching Yoga in this like beautiful studio in the upper East side of New York City and Chelsea, Clinton came into my class.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and it was like Yin Yoga, and the lights were really low, and I was like that Chelsea Clinton
and I. You know I was going around to everybody. And I was like, I'm gonna treat her just like anybody.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And because she's in my room and I'm just like holding this face. And I was touching her, and she was asking questions, and you know, and I just was like there with her, and I was like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): totally positive that's her. And so when she left the room, I said, as I always did to anyone who was new, I was like, Thanks so much for coming. What's your name. and then she's like Chelsea. And then she walked away, and the other students were like, you know who that was, and I was like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think so, you know, and I didn't want to like let on, because I didn't want to treat her like a famous person. And then I just felt like the biggest idiot after cause I was like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Obviously it's Chelsea Clinton. But I but I really wanted her to feel like she was just a normal person in my room. And so, anyway, I just for whatever that's worth. I was just remembering that as you were speaking about it, and what I hear you saying is, I wanna show up for you in a way that makes you feel really safe. And I understand some of the background here, and I'm just like holding you as one of my people. Let's figure out how to make this feel really good for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you for all of that. I think some really great thoughts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and suggestions. I love having this conversation about famous people. And I just I wanna say one thing, cause I think it's synchronicity. So I just got turned on to a new podcast.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it's called this young guy in life which I'm loving as being the young nerd that I am. And literally, of all the 300, and however many episodes that they've already done, the first one that I picked to listen to this last week was a Yungian perspective on fame
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's anyway, if anybody wants to go and listen to it in light of this conversation, it just talks about what we project on the famous people, the kind of energy that famous people have to. It's it is fascinating. And it it also brought up some of my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shadows around. All part of me wants to be famous, anyway, I'm just throwing it into the mix because, it just feels like synchronicity. Do I never have conversations like this in groups like, what do we do? Famous people show up. So anyway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: this is a different topic, though. So I'll I want to wait. Okay.
Kellita Maloof: so
Kellita Maloof: in the
Kellita Maloof: I have to say that. Still a feature that has as much of my attention because they're just so locked together, as what are the exact exercises, and when we're going to do is.
Kellita Maloof: how are we meeting? And when, like literally across the 9 months.
Kellita Maloof: I feel like the work that I'm doing on. This isn't always I'm sitting down to do it. It's constantly here.
Kellita Maloof: and it's working its way out. And often it's when I'm in a half asleep state that I know things, and I think, waking up this morning I may have solved something, but I and it's actually, Robin has a little, some similarity, something we were speaking of with
Kellita Maloof: with your program. So I, it's it's
Kellita Maloof: either largely
Kellita Maloof: mostly, or all going to be online the training program. But II did have a live section. But I want to make it.
Kellita Maloof: I want to make it
Kellita Maloof: optional in a way that someone truly doesn't miss out on something.
Kellita Maloof: you know, because it will be, but it'll be small. It'll probably be 6 people at the absolute maximum 12 people
Kellita Maloof: and so missing a piece feels
Kellita Maloof: really, you know, it's it's it would be very noticeable. And
Kellita Maloof: it feels like the
Kellita Maloof: segment.
Kellita Maloof: anyway, that my way of making it optional. And I'm curious, Joanna, but your hit or anyone's hit on this is.
Kellita Maloof: there's 2 formats that someone's going to learn how to
Kellita Maloof: how to facilitate a three-month program
Kellita Maloof: and a
Kellita Maloof: well within which there are 8 weeks that are really the active, active, and then the immersive, which is, everything, happens in
Kellita Maloof: 5 days, but there's work before and after
Kellita Maloof: and the folks in the training will learn both ways.
Kellita Maloof: They'll first learn the longer, slower way, and then they'll learn the immersive way. So I would like to do the immersive way
Kellita Maloof: have one way that it could be
Kellita Maloof: practiced in person
Kellita Maloof: in the Immersive, because it's a little, you know, just in time people can.
Kellita Maloof: No. Is this more possible to get people for that amount of time together? But I don't want to again make it
Kellita Maloof: so that everyone has to. So how to say this
Kellita Maloof: in my first iteration up until, like last night, I was thinking, it'll just be.
Kellita Maloof: It won't be the closing circle, because I would never. I don't want the closing. I'm actually everybody has to be able to tend the closing circle. So it was going to be a month before.
Kellita Maloof: and it was just going to be well, you just need to get there somehow. And then I had the thought, Wait a minute. I can teach it because
Kellita Maloof: how to say someone can to complete the training. Someone can either do it online.
Kellita Maloof: They could do the teaching online, or they can do the teaching
Kellita Maloof: in person. Yeah, they choose whatever works. But
Kellita Maloof: so I can online do the segment. That is the teaching
Kellita Maloof: of how to do it, where we're practicing just with each other. Keep that online, and then have.
Kellita Maloof: Then you can either go do it, or you can come to a retreat
Kellita Maloof: where also students come. Do you know what I mean like that? And then and I will be there at that one that would need to have a little extra cost, because it would have the room and board. And the what have you of the thing
Kellita Maloof: which no other part of the program has. And then everyone, because this is the last thing everyone would meet for
Kellita Maloof: the online closing circle the following month.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I think it can work really well. The only thing to think about is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it truly optional in terms of do you feel comfortable certifying someone
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if they haven't been in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you do, if you feel like you can say they, they are certified. You know, and that might also then come down to Khalida. What are the certification requirements? Are people submitting a recording of a teaching, or II don't know how loose or not loose you're gonna be with that it can be any spectrum of things you get to decide. But yeah, it's I think it just comes down to, especially if it's 2 levels. And people will pay to be able to be there
Kellita Maloof: live. Then, really, it's not a missing out thing, because people are gonna opt into where they wanna opt into. I think it just comes down to a certification thing out how the certification would happen. But I'm not worried about that, because a lot of people will mostly do this online.
Kellita Maloof: And I'm gonna be mostly teaching it online. And they're gonna be mostly doing it online. I just wanted
Kellita Maloof: to have. And I thought for that. So love that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that I mean, anytime we can bring people together in the actual room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the better.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great? Yeah, I think it's great, feels like it's dropping in. I love how your mind works and how it's like working your your unique way of working through things. I love it.
Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What? What questions do you have? What support do you need in order to keep on developing your program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): questions or places you're feeling stuck.
I guess I could
Robyn Vogel: jump in
it's not formulated yet, but I think well.
Robyn Vogel: I don't know how this fits in with the curriculum for this weekend. But
Robyn Vogel: I think one of the gaps that I'm recognizing now. I mean, just in this moment. I know about it because I think about it. A lot is like
Robyn Vogel: the way the way that you move people through you in particular, Joanna. And then the general, we move people through
Robyn Vogel: programs.
Robyn Vogel: To the next one, and I know you were. You said to me, or somewhere, like everything in your business points towards like sacred depths and advanced.
Robyn Vogel: you know like. that's how I'm seeing it visually and
Robyn Vogel: and I think there's gonna be some shift in my business as well, because I haven't had as much of that, and I've been really yearning for it because it
Robyn Vogel: it feels grounded, and it feels simple in a way.
Robyn Vogel: And I value those 2 things.
Robyn Vogel: so I don't know. I guess I don't know. I mean I don't. I don't. I don't know if I'm just planting seeds for a topic, or if there's something to talk about now, but it feels like
Robyn Vogel: I'm not. I'm just not great at it. I like lead a Friday night, and
Robyn Vogel: and that's that's the event equals the event, and I want people to come to my weekend or to
got on a wait list for retreat. But like I don't understand how to like.
Robyn Vogel: make it feel like
Robyn Vogel: or not make it. But like.
Robyn Vogel: okay, thank you for waiting. Well, the question comes, makes sense, cause it cause. It's I mean, it's helpful
Robyn Vogel: like how to invite them into a space of seeing
Robyn Vogel: what it is they really want?
Robyn Vogel: Why did they come? What do they want? And how what we're doing is like part of the story, but not the whole story.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, thank you for saying I feel so emotional around this topic. I don't know why.
Robyn Vogel: it's just being in your presence, I think.
Robyn Vogel: because I have like all these things coming up. I have
Robyn Vogel: like several classes in person and online.
Robyn Vogel: Anyway. I like, I really want to film my February weekend.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. You're asking this because it it feels. Tell me if I'm getting this right. And I think this is why some of the emotion is coming up, too, because it it really feels.
Robyn Vogel: I mean you. You've done so well, and have evolved so much in terms of your business. And and it just feels like this is part of the next layer and evolution
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you is is to.
Robyn Vogel: you know, to to bring people along with you more, so that your the energy that you put out to get people to a Friday night or this or that, it is more leverage.
Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: yeah.
And part of it is,
Robyn Vogel: this is helpful. Thank you for listening.
Robyn Vogel: Was there. Another thing that you.
Robyn Vogel: because part of it is that I want people to come
Robyn Vogel: for the reasons that
Robyn Vogel: I have around my sacred work.
Robyn Vogel: and I think because of the topic.
Robyn Vogel: I think because of the topic. Sometimes people come for other reasons, and
Robyn Vogel: they're not in alignment with me.
Robyn Vogel: and it brings up the stuff around consent
Robyn Vogel: because of the work that I'm doing.
Robyn Vogel: Oh.
Robyn Vogel: you know what I'm saying about the work, you know.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, it's like, sometimes people just come because they wanna get turned on. And they wanna, you know, touch breasts, or
Robyn Vogel: even though that's not like in our agreement. Sometimes that happens just happened at the last, like
Robyn Vogel: Friday night couple weeks ago. and I, you know, check in with people, and, you know, work with all the energies and the personalities and all that.
Robyn Vogel: But I think I'm realizing, like in this moment that it's painful for me that people are coming. For
Robyn Vogel: those reasons
Robyn Vogel: I don't really know what to do about that exactly.
Robyn Vogel: But I think it does also impact. I'm just having that awareness in this moment like it impacts flow of right, because those people aren't coming to heal. Their hearts are coming to do weekends. They're coming because they wanna like, have sex. You know, whatever it interrupts you, you feeling energetically aligned to make the most empowered invitation into the next thing as you can, because you're so ethical and because you care
Robyn Vogel: so much.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): glad all of this is coming forward. It's important to connect these dots.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, definitely
Robyn Vogel: before, like this. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I have some thoughts. I don't know if you yeah. So first, and most importantly, I just I wanna take a moment to honor
Robyn Vogel: your work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And like, I'm gonna start crying. I think a little bit, Robin, cause II just feel it like I wanna honor your work and and the incredible sacred purpose
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the heart of your work throughout your work.
Robyn Vogel: all of it, and your passion and your commitment.
Robyn Vogel: it is. It is not only it's not only important work, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it takes a lot for you as the leader and the practitioner show up for it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I just really wanna honor all of that.
Robyn Vogel: and also
Robyn Vogel: acknowledge some of the heartache that some of it is within your control, and then some of it is just without your control, outside right, and so acknowledge some of the heartache that is
Robyn Vogel: in with a bowl
Robyn Vogel: with some of sorry and and your strength and leadership that you're continuing to show up because of the passion really want to honor and acknowledge you for all of that.
Thank you.
Robyn Vogel: Okay. So
Robyn Vogel: from there, in no particular order. So I'm sure you're already doing this. But I'm I'm wondering
Robyn Vogel: if if there might not be. You might just be doing exactly the way it needs to be done. But are there places either
Robyn Vogel: the workshops or in the promotions of the workshops, where you can be even more explicit on
Robyn Vogel: the rules, the agreements, and the permit.
Okay?
yeah. Like, even more you mean
Robyn Vogel: already are. And I'm just wondering. I don't know. Are there places where you can be even more explicit?
Right? That's a good question. I can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's one thing.
Robyn Vogel: just on a purely logistical level that II would I would really review and see.
Robyn Vogel: So so that's number one, I think. Easiest.
Yeah, to share
Robyn Vogel: number 2.
Robyn Vogel: Toss this idea.
Robyn Vogel: I mean, you're gonna continue to process all that you shared. But once it's processed a little bit more.
Robyn Vogel: How would it feel
Robyn Vogel: to write
Robyn Vogel: a Newsletter
Robyn Vogel: article or note about it
to you? Yeah, you feel good.
Robyn Vogel: I think it would be helpful for you
Robyn Vogel: energetically, and I think it would
Robyn Vogel: maybe help eliminate some of some of the people that need to be eliminated and then help activate more of the people who are right
Robyn Vogel: for the alignment, reason, and and it would really be part of being a thought leader and a stand for all the things that you're already a thought leader in a stand for. But in an even deeper way, speaking in in these explicit ways about what the work is, what it means to you what some of the heartache is.
Robyn Vogel: you know, to to to really be vulnerable in all of that.
Yeah, that's helpful. Haven't been reading the chat, but I know there's some comments there that I'll look at. Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: it's a good idea. So there, there's I think those are. Maybe the, for I don't want to pile on a ton of to do. Yeah, those are the, you know, those we can call those like
Robyn Vogel: mostly outer a little bit of inner
Robyn Vogel: but just
Robyn Vogel: is it okay? Can I? Can I hang on with you for another? Okay, definitely, on an inner level with all of this? I what is it?
Robyn Vogel: Want
Robyn Vogel: to more? Be a body
Robyn Vogel: around that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you say it again? It somehow your words. What is it that you want to more deeply embody.
Robyn Vogel: so that you can feel that you are
Robyn Vogel: You didn't use these words, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it almost feels like you feel like you're. There's something wrong happening. you know, when these these little hiccups right? And then you're
Robyn Vogel: so, what is it? What idea or belief or understanding? Do you want to more deeply embody.
Robyn Vogel: so that you don't
Robyn Vogel: question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more than need be like these little these things of let's look at, if you're explicit, or you know. But what do you wanna embody more here?
I guess I'm just what I what comes to mind is clarity
Robyn Vogel:
like. In some ways I'm also it grapples with my
Robyn Vogel: a little bit with my personality and my
Robyn Vogel: being
Robyn Vogel: because I like to be playful, and I like to
Robyn Vogel: play, and I also want it to be safe for people, and
Robyn Vogel: that's a whole other piece of it. So I think
Robyn Vogel: I guess the clarity of what?
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. So what I'm hearing. I think this is important. You know, I think we're getting to a really important piece here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I'm hearing I might not be getting it right. Tell me, I actually think clear. I actually think you're we can crystal clear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the fear that you might come off is too aggressive or not playful enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As you state, your clarity
Robyn Vogel: is what's making you feel like you're not.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. And I, okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does that land check it out? Say, this last sentence one more time, so I think that you are pretty much crystal clear, but the fear of not coming off is playful or coming off is too aggressive.
Robyn Vogel: Whatever is what's making you feel like, you're not there.
Robyn Vogel: right.
Robyn Vogel: yeah.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, this is so many this has a couple of trail heads right and reds, so so. But so here's what's so beautiful about this is that actually.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you also want people in the bedroom to be playful and clear and safe all at the same time, too, like this is part of part of the work. So it's so right that it's like this is, it's coming to this. So what I wanna invite you to explore is, what does
Robyn Vogel: clarity? And you know this already in the bedroom? Right? So you're just gonna apply it here now. But II want you to explore. What does clarity and
Robyn Vogel: and safety and playfulness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): look like together in this scenario of setting these boundaries.
Robyn Vogel: That's really good piece that I can bring to them. Actually.
Robyn Vogel: in a small group.
Robyn Vogel: Okay, thank you. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So these.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, well, just wanna like acknowledge to myself, like where I began, which was
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the bringing people through? A right? Yes, so and so. These are the next steps. I want you to work on these, and then we can look.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think, from there. Then we can look with more clarity as what are the bridges and the invitations?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Our last class
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in like a Monday from now we're gonna that's like a big topic of that class, too. But so I'm glad this is coming up. Now let's let's work on some of these pieces. Let me get to the next.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you so much. Yeah. You're so welcome. I'm so glad that you brought it forward. I feel like it's important, not just for you, but for many of us here.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, thank you, Helida.
Kellita Maloof: Thank you both to Robin, for you know, going to a tender places. A little opens for me to share this and thank you, Suzanne, for the nudge.
Kellita Maloof: Whoo! Okay, this is fresh.
Kellita Maloof: and I missed. I missed when you talked about
Kellita Maloof: trauma informed place, and probably you know, because I wasn't here, and
Kellita Maloof: I thought maybe first I should hear how you address that, Joanna, but I'm just gonna
Kellita Maloof: bring this up.
Kellita Maloof: I
Kellita Maloof: we have a show at the at the.
Kellita Maloof: It's one of the 2 culminating events before the closing circle. And it's when
Kellita Maloof: now online, we don't do it in the theater. We do it online. And there's a higher bar for who can attend the show which is the culminating solos that have been created?
Kellita Maloof: It needs to be a woman.
Kellita Maloof: a woman identified person.
Kellita Maloof: and someone who's been to
Kellita Maloof: at least a mini intro with me, so they know how to participate, because the
Kellita Maloof: the witnesses I call them witnesses instead of audience. The witnesses participate. They actually share in the chat, and some allowed
Kellita Maloof: how they're feeling throughout
Kellita Maloof: experience of the show.
Kellita Maloof: So
Kellita Maloof: I did. One intro event. This is back in November, then the
Kellita Maloof: just like the night before the show and the show is gonna be in the morning. My time
Kellita Maloof: and oh, my body here already I like. I feel a weakness in my chest and a weakness in my belly, and I feel like I'm a little. I don't know what is like getting a little lightheaded. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, Kalita, do you mean right now or back? Then? Okay, so just take take a moment. Feel the ground beneath. You really, really
Kellita Maloof: stay centered in your body can tap your shoulders or your belly or your thighs. Thank you. My hands are on my thighs. Yeah.
Kellita Maloof: And
Kellita Maloof: A transgender person came to
Kellita Maloof: the show.
Kellita Maloof: No, to the intro
Kellita Maloof: and
Kellita Maloof: you know, in the writing for the invitation to the intra workshop, it's
Kellita Maloof: I'm trying to think of that sales page. I think that sales page just says Woman. I don't think it even has any. Some places I have. What does women mean, but in that one I didn't.
Kellita Maloof: There, it just said.
Kellita Maloof: This is an event for women.
Kellita Maloof: and
Kellita Maloof: and this lovely human came. and I invited, you know, whoever came, Jenny of the intro workshops was invited to come to the show.
Kellita Maloof: and because the show was just literally
Kellita Maloof: sleeping time away.
Kellita Maloof: I didn't. I didn't say anything to the performers.
Kellita Maloof: and this has never happened before that I am aware of.
Kellita Maloof: And
Kellita Maloof: I didn't know until
Kellita Maloof: maybe 12 days later, right before the closing circle like I didn't. I saw the message as I was heading into the closing circle
Kellita Maloof: that had come that morning. and closing circle was in the morning
Kellita Maloof: from one of the participants in the program who it it threw her.
Kellita Maloof: and she wasn't comfortable with that happening.
Kellita Maloof: And she actually asked if
Kellita Maloof: she, she said, Yeah, you know, I realize this is very last minute or and I don't know if you want me to bring this up in the closing circle. I didn't even get to address it, because I literally on the way in. So after the closing circle, I,
Kellita Maloof: I said, let's bring it up in the thread.
Kellita Maloof: We have a thread that where you can speak, or
Kellita Maloof: I must have said, let me introduce it into the thread, or something like that. I don't even remember. But I didn't get. I didn't attune to how disturbing it was, partly because this was a text
Kellita Maloof: exchange even for me to be asked, can I bring it up to me? Felt it. I didn't catch how much it was disturbing.
Kellita Maloof: and then
Kellita Maloof: I didn't bring it up in the thread. I got lost in the holidays, and and then at the beginning of January, or maybe
Kellita Maloof: last week, it is still the beginning of January.
Kellita Maloof: I reached out
Kellita Maloof: and we had. I was still, my body is like, Oh. basically
Kellita Maloof: I didn't hear the I didn't hear the disturbance enough, and I said, Let's bring it up right before the next show.
Kellita Maloof: when it's in a live topic. Because
Kellita Maloof: the circle had completely closed.
Kellita Maloof: it was was closed, and we even have integration weeks. It was all done.
Kellita Maloof: If I had known how disturbed she was, I would have reached out immediately, and we would have talked about it and then figured, and but that didn't happen, and then she got
Kellita Maloof: very angry it like a fire.
Kellita Maloof: and and
Kellita Maloof: and this happened just a couple of days ago. and my days were packed, and I was like I got
Kellita Maloof: kind of frozen, and they're like, Oh, my goodness! Like it just I mean, you can tell without me saying anymore, way tricky on a million levels.
Kellita Maloof: I will just say also this particular client. I would need to filter out in the future, and I already knew it, because there's a ton of disorganization.
Kellita Maloof: and more than this program can address.
Kellita Maloof: So I'll just say that that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm still I'm sorry. I'm sorry that happened. I can feel, and and it is hard when we feel like we've also hurt someone or made somebody angry. I'm
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I could, I could
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wax philosophical on many of the pieces. But, let me ask you, is there is it just that you wanted to share? Is there something in particular around it that you have a question or want support on.
Kellita Maloof: I don't know if I can articulate it beyond.
Kellita Maloof: I don't. I don't have a clear, I mean, I have. I have like a like a toddler question of mommy. Did I mess up, you know, like, that's like the only question comes from very, very young versions of myself. There is, and I know I know that your higher wisdom right? Like I. You know, I don't wanna be like. No, you didn't mess up because I don't know if that's what you actually need. I know, I know that. I mean it's and the thing is, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we are all imperfect. We can only know what we know we are going to. I'm not saying you made a mistake. It could have been. I don't know if it's a mistake or not. Right. But II mean it. It's it is okay. You are incredible practitioner. I think there's a learning piece in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you sense. Maybe that something is bigger. But you're not paying attention to it right? So II think there, there's so much in it. But you are amazing and whole and complete and incredible. Right? I'd say, like, what are the learning? What? What are you learning from all of this. Let's list out one or 2 or 3 top learning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the
Kellita Maloof: oh.
Kellita Maloof: I'm just gonna have to make a line in the sand about
Kellita Maloof: what woman means in this container. Yes.
Kellita Maloof: yes. So that's clear and consistent about it. And it's gonna upset someone. But I need to make a choice and be clear period upset some people.
Kellita Maloof: That's it. I think that's the biggest learning.
Yeah.
Kellita Maloof: And also I want
Kellita Maloof: something about
Kellita Maloof: Suzanne. This is wisdom from you that you had hard-worn, hard-earned. I hope it's okay for me to say this. I need to let people know. Let me know as soon I think I do. But I need to say this more.
Kellita Maloof: Let me know as soon as something is troubling you, rather than like waiting to
Kellita Maloof: the last last last last end and end, please.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. 2, 2 incredible, incredible learnings.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then a third that I'll toss, that I think you already knew, but just important to say anything big that comes up in a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We wanna almost always we wanna handle it voice to voice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): versus on any kind of online thread. It's just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, it's like it's easy to to do it. And so, you know, sometimes it's like, Oh, it just seems like, maybe, but really anything that's sensitive voice to voice.
Kellita Maloof: I at this point have have said, I am available to talk.
Kellita Maloof: but I can't. can't do this anymore. I yeah.
thank you, Jeff. now, and everyone supports
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I'm just taking all of this in I think my my question is a little
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): a little expansive, but I'm hoping you can offer a little bit of direction. It's a it's somewhat related to what Robin was saying in the earlier part, just around, really wanting to have this. I don't remember the word like the the sequencing or the streamlining of letting people in.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And so I've settled in on this 12 week program. I'm currently just trying to figure out what goes what and which modules I'm doing when within the 12 weeks.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I'm really aware that my like big dream is to invite people into a bigger, longer, deeper container.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): or to at least for the first year, maybe, repeat this container a number of times, but there's like so much in so many places. I want to go. And I also.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I'm realizing that my 51 year old self
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): would like to slow down on creation a little bit like, have some things that are turnkey, and that it doesn't have to be a huge, heavy lift every single time.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I think the other thing that just keeps coming up for me is that when I've had people in my containers they have tended to love them, and they walk away, saying, Oh, my gosh! I got so much, not my private. My private has a lot of re enrollments. People say I got so much, and it's like they don't
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): want to go to the next thing because they feel so filled up, and they want to give it space to integrate. And all of that. And I'm I'm really wanting to create something that has a more sensible, like streamlined way in.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then I'll just say this other piece like over here is that in doing
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in doing, though so so I guess. Sorry. The first question is. how do I go deep enough that it
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it feels like enticing and enriching, but doesn't overwhelm.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but also gives them enough that they're like actually getting what they've come for. And then it might like guide them into the next thing, but that I'm also thinking about these organizational presentations. And I just got another potential invitation last night. And II would love to be able to pull like some things from this
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): course that are
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): present. II want more streamlining. I just keep feeling into the streamlining because it feels a little bit all over the place with, like I do organizational things, and I give them like the intro. But it's a light touch of all the things, and then I have this.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know. Befriend your body thing here, and then I have the big, bigger, deeper, longer thing here. But it's I love it just to have a little more
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): streamlining between the things and for people to feel like. There's a logical sequence like Oh, you get a nice taste here, and then you get to go a little deeper and like on Sunday I led retreat. We went deep, but it was 2 h of deep. And of course there's more that we could do, and that was obvious. So anyway, I'm just, I'm just thinking about that. As I'm designing the exercises for the refriger body, and and then thinking about this other organizational presentation and thinking.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): could I have them mirror each other like, should it? I mean, I already have a hold
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): thing done which is great. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): or do I select out 5 pieces from the bigger, deeper, longer thing, and go light, touch on them, and have, like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, 12 different presentation options for organizations, and then it invites them to like, you know, for sequence one. You get this for sequence. 2. You get this for sequence 3. You get this. So anyway, I guess I would just love some
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): support and thinking on those things, and how to do it like how to be thinking about it in a way that just supports
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, sir.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's such a great question.
so as always what I'm going to share is not necessarily right. You check it out for yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the the first part is what is what is easiest and feels best for you, right? What is most useful and feels best for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in in like intuitively, if there's any intuitive hits right? That's that's always
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Queen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): W, with almost everything. so that from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I have really learned over the years.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with everything, including previews, including it's a small program that might lead into a bigger program is, as you've heard me say in many other contexts before, always go deeper, not wider.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I used to in previews or very short programs that would lead into be like, I'm going to do the skim the surface survey thing so that they get all the different topics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But then I don't give them all the secrets. And then right? And then they're gonna want more, which is great. It's not that it's not valuable, but what I have really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): found is actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the deeper that I go, the more people want, the more they're served and the more that they want.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 99 of the time. That is, whether it's the big program, whether it's the small program leading into, whether it's the preview.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to go deeper
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): versus wider. That's what. When I was saying Kelly in the email, I'll share with you those old preview call trainings. But my thinking has changed on some of it that that is actually the big, the biggest thing that has changed from old trainings that I've done on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And and there was something else that I wanted to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Almost always. when we are inviting people from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one experience to the next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we want to speak to the integration piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We'll look at this more. In a few weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll model a little of this tomorrow when I talk about advanced, but just to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): always, for some people there is going to be a resistance of. I didn't get the most out of this pro. I didn't integrate everything. I didn't get all the pieces. I didn't do all the exercises. I didn't master all of the things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So how can I possibly move on to the next thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some people that is going to be the truth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But by enlarge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the next program is always going to be integrating what's already been experienced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you want to speak to that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in in the invitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that helpful?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Hmm.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it is yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yes. for sure. And the and I guess with the going
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): deeper, not wider, is to like deepen into each of the smaller number of pieces. And I guess I'm like, I'm thinking about meeting with these organizational people as well, and suggesting to them, cause they love that. I'm giving them all the data. And I'm doing all the things. And this experiential. And it's too much. And so I would say, not deeper on all the points.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some of the points. Yeah. I was thinking of saying to them.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like you. part of what I bring is the capacity for people to take things and like have an experience that translates into action when they get back. And that's what we can do if we go.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know. And and if you want, add to that, say, people can Google content
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, don't hire me
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to share what somebody can. Google, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): online
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hire me because I am providing an experience. So that exactly what you just said, so people can integrate and embody and take action. And so that means
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): less topics. more depth.
Yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I said something similar last night and eat it up. So it's like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it just it just makes you. Yeah, yeah.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): they get a lot of talking heads. And I'm like, I, I'm not interested in doing that. And if you want to hire me, this would be better. So, okay, yes, that's helpful. And then, in terms of.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So it's not like holding back on going deep
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): because some one will or a few will feel overwhelmed, which inevitably happens. People get overwhelmed, and they feel like that. They didn't do enough, or it was like too deep, or whatever
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to the deep, and work with the deep, and then invite them to continue integrating, to go to the next and speak to the. It might come up for you that you feel too overwhelmed, or if right and just speak to just speak to it right, and how people are getting exactly what they need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever level isn't the right word to say, but every person is gonna get what they need right? And there's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more work to do.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: This like extra is
Jennifer Rose Gens: so that wow! Oh, my gosh! Amazing shares!
Jennifer Rose Gens: Now, I'm like, Oh, I wanna ask different questions because of those questions that
Jennifer Rose Gens: the question I would like to ask, and I want consent from you is about a one on one client. Is that okay? To ask here?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I think Suzanne had a piggyback on a topic related to groups. So let's for sure, like we'll we'll do it. But since it's a one on one and not totally, maybe relevant, ready, although I have a feeling it will end up being relevant anyway. Let me get Suzanne's. Thank you for asking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: Thank you. So it was linked to Khalida's share, and when you said about voice to voice, so in a in a very, very small nutshell, the lesson that I learned was I had somebody who was unhappy with my program, my programs, either 8 or 10 weeks. I vary it
Suzanne Culberg: and as a result of that, at the start of each round. I let people know that, you know if you have
Suzanne Culberg: issues, or whatever, I'm totally open to discussing them.
Suzanne Culberg: But let me know immediately. Don't wait till the end, cause that what this person had done she always had 10 weeks worth of resentment.
Suzanne Culberg: and then blasted me with like you didn't cover codependency and all these things that were not in a coaching container, anyway. But I was like much like you wouldn't go to a restaurant and eat a 10 course Deego station and then say, I didn't like the food
Suzanne Culberg: I'm not available for. You've done the entire program, and then you wanna win Jack me much say it like that. But my question was because I loved what you said to clear about voice to voice, because I'm very much the same. I'm open. I'm wanting to have a discussion because this tonality, like we we did earlier today where you were saying, Joanna, you said, Tell us to write things down. And yeah, I had. But I never made the connection, because you're like you may want to. Or this even invitation in the tone as opposed to like the demand.
Suzanne Culberg: However, I notice a lot like, especially when people are upset, triggered, activated. However, language you want to put around it the hesitation to talk, probably because in the past they've been talked down to by a parent or school or whatever.
Suzanne Culberg: But then, again, I'm not open to a back and forth email exchange because it doesn't get me anywhere. So how or like suggestions. For if they really don't want to like in this case of this lady, she really wasn't available to a discussion. I really wasn't available to this continuing via email because it was getting us nowhere.
Suzanne Culberg: Do you just kind of like, cut your chord energetically and move on. And like, I've been clear all the way through, or because sometimes, yeah, people just don't want to chat then. And I find that really hard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, such a good question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As you know, I have 3 answers. So I gotta say a couple of things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first is. Sometimes it's just connecting the dots to let people know that it's going to be a safe conversation for them. And and so over the email just being explicit and saying, You know, III want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get on the phone so that we can connect voice to voice. I really want to hear more about what has been going on for you. It. It is really important for me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to hold that space for you to hear it, to take it into consideration, and then for us to see together. You know best ways of moving forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That might not be the exact words, you know, depending on the case. But just to say, There, sometimes you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can maybe get someone on the phone who seems like they're not gonna get on the phone. If you speak, it all comes down again to speaking to resistances, right? So to to to connect those dots and to speak those things. So that's number one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): next thing is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if this is just a one off, you don't necessarily wanna do it. But if you see that this is happening a bit. I might work it into the contract, I might say. You know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you are dissatisfied with the program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we will have a one on one conversation about it. II don't do emails or texts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this right? So that when someone signs the contract it, it's just built in. Now, that doesn't mean that they're gonna stick to the contract right? But it's another way of already. Pre, and you can say, and it is everybody that I work with is important to me. And email doesn't carry tone. It can end up being longer. We don't have that human interaction, and especially if there is a dissatisfaction
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is so important for us to connect voice to voice right? So you can put that in there, and it may help with some of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so if you're connecting the dots, if you're putting into the contract, and then it's still.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then you right, then you have a decision to make, and and the decision is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is. Is it worth? II know I'm in the right in terms of I'm not doing anything unethical. I'm open to the conversation right, like all the things, and and they're not going for it. Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it worth my time and energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to continue with this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or is it a better use of my time and energy to cut this loose and just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): issue the refund, or would do whatever the thing is. And I think every case is gonna be different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I think that's then that's what it comes down to. If you looked at. Okay, there, I everything I'm doing here is ethical and you know what I said I would do.
Suzanne Culberg: Hmm, no, that's great. Thank you. I've only had this once, but it wasn't until I was chatting to clear about her situation. The day that I was like
Suzanne Culberg: this is still in the back of my mind, like, you know, if something like this happens again. Cause I you know we you do tread
Suzanne Culberg: in areas that are sensitive.
Suzanne Culberg: And sometimes people do get and then the other thing about clearly situation that I didn't think of till now. Sometimes something happens, and you are activated in the moment, but you're not yet ready to bring it up, so it may take a couple of weeks, but then again, as the facilitator, if your circle is closed, so that's where sometimes the things can, you know butt heads a bit or be a bit challenging. And it's yet to case by case basis and and that. But I think.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, it's tough sometimes it is, and no, it can be messy, and it can be tough and their decisions but it it sounds like you're on the right track. And hopefully, some of these other pieces are helpful.
Suzanne Culberg: wonderful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, Jen. thanks for waiting
Jennifer Rose Gens: where
Jennifer Rose Gens: trying to record this, but doesn't want to record. So
Jennifer Rose Gens: oh, there it goes. Okay. So one on one question.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I spoke to them, the mama, that I'm coaching of 3 boys, one infant.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and did the thing, and like brought it addressed.
Jennifer Rose Gens: She's the one that's sleep deprived. And I addressed it with her and said, You know I'm happy to
Jennifer Rose Gens: to pause this program, and she refused. which is really sweet, you know.
Jennifer Rose Gens: But she refused. She was like, and I, you know, and I was like just to be clear. II do want to keep working with you. I mentioned that to you. I didn't want to make her feel like she was doing something wrong, and she's like, no, no, like
Jennifer Rose Gens: I do think I'm getting something out of this this. It was actually really helpful, too, because I got to have her clarify her intentions. That's what I was just gonna say, yeah, with signing up for me, which was spiritual guidance.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Which is like what I really love doing. Which is a part of what I do. But
Jennifer Rose Gens: you know, highlighting that from her was like
Jennifer Rose Gens: really nice for me to kind of relax into it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: So I mentioned some ideas to do with her like, hey, listen! I want you to be really honest with me when you're just feeling like you just want some like, you know, sound healing or
Jennifer Rose Gens: meditation guidance, or you know I've had her like, lay down things like that
Jennifer Rose Gens: and 2 things on that. So I've set it kind of up for you. Here
Jennifer Rose Gens: is one is
Jennifer Rose Gens: to be honest. She seems incredibly resistant in our coaching sessions.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and we've we. I have spoken to it, and she's agreed. She's like, I know, I know I'm really like, but she's like I wanna work on it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: But it's hard like, because, you know, she's had like 13 sessions now, and it's like, feel like we're nearly scratching the surface.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And then the second thing that I want to mention
Jennifer Rose Gens: to you
Jennifer Rose Gens: just. I need some advice, I think, cause I really want to serve her even better.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And sometimes I'm like, what would Joanna do love to have you in there coaching. I just wanna like watch you coach her. The second piece is. When she was resistant to pausing our work.
Jennifer Rose Gens: One of the things is, she said. No, no, I am getting a lot out of these.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And this the other thing was, and I won't have time
Jennifer Rose Gens: when I start working again.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And so I
Jennifer Rose Gens: I've mentioned I wanted to address that. We haven't gotten to address that yet.
Jennifer Rose Gens: but I do want to.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I want to understand her relationship to time. And I did. We talked about time in our last session.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And she basically is just kind of says the same thing which is totally understandable. She's 3
Jennifer Rose Gens: kids under 5. One is an infant
Jennifer Rose Gens: and she's dedicated to
Jennifer Rose Gens: her milk supply.
Jennifer Rose Gens: So she's, you know up all night. And
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, just getting I I've mentioned to her like I wanna help her understand her relationship to time. And what she keeps saying is like she don't have any of it, you know, like she doesn't have any of it, and
Jennifer Rose Gens: she thinks that once she starts working she'll have even less of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. Okay. There's a couple of a couple of pieces in here, and I think they're all I'm going to address them separately. But I actually think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they're all related.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In one way or another, like all paths, will kind of lead together. So the first is great. Just great work on coming back to intentions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I would
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just maybe add in to layer, that is cause you mentioned like, what are. Why did you originally sign up. You know what were your intentions when you signed up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I might phrase it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little differently if if you don't make necessarily need to go back. But actually, I think it might be part of all of this, and it might help is, I might phrase it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not what were your and original intentions, but for where you are now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what we've seen so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and where you really can see your time and energy are, and what you're able to do and receive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are your intentions for the X amount of time that we have together left?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cause, I think that will be a more accurate resetting of the container versus.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it's great to remember the original intentions. But then, with that information, what are actually the new intentions for moving forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might inform something.
Jennifer Rose Gens: You mind if I comment on that before you continue. I ask her every session what her desires and intentions are.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and I know it's different. Yeah. And so
Jennifer Rose Gens: I think. resetting it for sure
Jennifer Rose Gens: I have a feeling she'll tell me what she always tells me on every session is, and she's actually mentioned this.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I have none down to see where it goes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So so that's that's okay, too. You can also suggest
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some intentions. Right? It's not. It's not not allowing for clients agency, if they're not sure but you can toss some things and see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you see. And now I've done a little bit of that based on her
Jennifer Rose Gens: what she's told me her values and intentions were from like the first 2 sessions, and I'll just kind of remind her like
Jennifer Rose Gens: mentioned wanting to soften and your heart, and
Jennifer Rose Gens: perhaps get more vulnerable
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but lovely and amazing. So okay, so that's why I'm saying, I think all these 3 things are related, because what you just said plugs into this resistance piece around wanting to do some sound. I forget what you call like a sound meditation or sound journey, or whatever. And there's resistance right? It's almost like there's there's the desire for the softening and resistance
Jennifer Rose Gens: just to be. Yes, sorry, just to be clear she is open to receiving those things. However, what's the resistance
Jennifer Rose Gens: I feel like she wants, and I'm trying to understand. This, too, is
Jennifer Rose Gens: Seems like she doesn't really have anyone to vent to, and she's venting up the same thing kind of in every session. And so for a few sessions like I would just be holding space like, okay, this is a mom that's feeling unheard and under appreciated. But I'm wanting to like, actually get her some support.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And she is really like
Jennifer Rose Gens: very held together. We're talking like
Jennifer Rose Gens: also high profile.
Jennifer Rose Gens: CEO, his
Jennifer Rose Gens: like. Ha! You know, let a million 1 billion dollar company. But it's also like just Super stressed out and like the master and commander and her husband doesn't seem to like
Jennifer Rose Gens: help her in the ways that she might want, and she's not really speaking to it. So I'm like, Hey, let me so number one, if you haven't already
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): address that I would right? So it would sound something like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. I noticed that in a lot of our our sessions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes people can feel a little offended by the word event, so you might want to find another word event right? But kind of share what happens? Don't make it raw in any way. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Say, say, you know, I just want to check in with you. Is this how you want to be using our time?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If this is valuable for you? Excellent cause, you might just need this space with everything that else you have going on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if it's a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): happening unintentionally, and really, there are other things that you want to get to. I wanna make sure that we have a conversation about that and get to those things. And then if she says yes, and whatever you can say, do I have permission to redirect you? Then?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When the vending comes up, or to to at least pause you and ask you in those moments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this how you want to spend this time, or can we spend this in another way? So I would. I would just make that very, very
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): clear.
and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, so that she has some choice not to make the vending wrong, and that might be exactly what she needs, but just so that she has more choice, and all of that you might get to some other places, if that's indeed what she needs and wants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in terms of the time piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, it's tricky because I think there is a reality to it. Once she goes back to work and she's a big business woman she is gonna have less time, you know, like there there are. So for as much as you know, we look at this, you know, and sacred depth like your beliefs about time and your perspectives about time. And you know all the things there is also. Sh! Now, she's gonna have 3 kids and and a job. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there is a piece that's understandable around. I want to get as much of a foundation, as much support and a foundation as
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can. Now, before I go back to work, because it might be harder to make the space to get that foundation and to do this work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Once I go back to work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's just one piece that I think is could could be a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't wanna say a fact. But you know what I mean like a little more objective. Yes. in all of in all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But from there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, it could be interesting to to connect some dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm worried that I'm not gonna have enough time to some of the deeper intentions that she has for the work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): together. You haven't shared them, so I don't know what they are, but I'm guessing if you're picking up on this, Jen, it might be because, you see that there's a a connection there. When you were talking earlier about resistance to going deeper, I was thinking there could be. Yes, sometimes when
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're in a rush to get things done, and we don't think we have enough time. It's actually so much harder right to settle into the body and to soften
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and open and receive, because, even though our minds know that that's productive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's another part of us that's saying. But no, II need to like, do the other things that are more strategic, or whatever it is. So I don't know if that's the case. But whatever her intentions or her blocks are, if you're picking up on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time thing, I would think about. What are the connections to them, and have that be an opening into, maybe a conversation with her around. I honest, O honor, and acknowledge the reality of the situation! And then and then there's always deeper work to go with the time piece. So what are some of the beliefs and the perspectives.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, and and kind of start with an exploration on that, and then move into some.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): befriend your fears, or you know whatever. Wherever you want to go deeper from, there
Jennifer Rose Gens: is that helpful talking very fast in a few minutes. It's okay. I recorded it. It. Yes.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I think
Jennifer Rose Gens: I feel like it's helpful to hear what this. Because I'm like, okay, I feel like, I'm actually doing a really good job.
Jennifer Rose Gens: So I want to like Pat myself on the back.
Jennifer Rose Gens: And I'm not a mom, and I'm very clear with that, like. you know. I tell her that.
Jennifer Rose Gens: II am very aware of that. And I guess for me I'm like, is that true? Because that when she goes back to work because she's milking during the night. Sorry if that's the wrong term. I'm so sorry, but she's
Jennifer Rose Gens: pumping during the night. And
Jennifer Rose Gens: she has to get up at 3 am every night to do that, and she's a yeah charge supply is huge, too. But you know I understand that it's like a continual thing.
Jennifer Rose Gens: So to me, I'm like, well, she'll actually get more sleep when she goes back to work, because she'll not be breastfeeding throughout the night.
Jennifer Rose Gens: But I don't know I don't. I'm not a mom, so I don't really know that part. And I think it's like, Couldn't you do part time? And I mean, obviously, these are things like that. I'm not being very coachy right now. I'm just being like, that's from my own filter and my own bias. But yeah, I definitely want to talk to her about time and her relationship to that, and the resistance that she has is feeling. Her feelings should have been more clear about that earlier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So last piece on that, and then at 6. But I think this will be helpful for you, and everyone is in the moment when there's resistance to feeling the feelings work with it right then and there. Don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk about it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Okay? Well, one possibility is just like, where in your body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are you feeling like you don't want to be doing this or feeling this right now, right? Or where in your body is telling you. You. There, you know you're feeling that there's no fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right even. Just go directly there. Where in your body are you feeling that there is no fear that's good, and then hold this. Ho! Have her hold the space with love and compassion there, and and do some deeper dialogging on that. See see what that's about, how it's protecting her.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What it wants. etc.,
Jennifer Rose Gens: it was gold. Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right, Veronica, you have a question about tomorrow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're Gonna be doing some amazing things in the morning. But come when you can come, absolutely jump in in the afternoon, we'll probably be taking our bigger break between 2 and 3
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but you can pick things up for sure.
Veronica Jensen: Thank you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Everyone sending you love can't wait to see you tomorrow. Have a good night.
Robyn Vogel: Thank you so much.
Robyn Vogel: Nice.