Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Morning or good afternoon, depending on where you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give us a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's take a minute and get centered and settled.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whoever is going to arrive today will allow them to keep on coming in. If it is comfortable for you to close your eyes, close your eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if not keep them open and go inward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and use these next few moments
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as an opportunity to come back home to yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to come back home to your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to bring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more of you to inhabit your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe this is the first time today that you are creating space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be with you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and from this place I invite you to connect in with your belly, and if it feels right, can place a hand on your belly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connect in with all that you hold in your belly and in your stomach
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that place where we digest not only our food, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our emotions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give love to your belly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you connect in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with your waters of intuition.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your gut feelings.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your instincts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and together we'll take a nice deep breath in and exhale everything out with a sigh, so breathing in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then allowing your eyes to open, if they're not already open. and take a moment to see the other incredible ones that are here. Not many people have their camera on right now. If you're able to turn your camera on, please do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take a moment to see and to be seen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It was actually such a sacred act that doesn't always happen in our modern society to see and to be seen to really see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and regardless of. If you know the person that you are looking at, or know their story, or who they are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remember that they are a human with a human heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and many incredible, joyful experiences in life, and also holding grief as we all do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and send honor.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So just each human in all of our messy, beautiful sacred experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I'm so excited for Day 2. Emily, I'm so glad you're here. I know you weren't able to be here yesterday. I'm just looking through. I think everybody else that's here was here yesterday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know it's a Saturday, and maybe you're even still in your jammies. If you can have your camera on again. You know what's right for you, but if it is possible to have your camera on, or put it on in a little bit. Please do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, from a facilitator standpoint. You know, for your all of your groups as well. Obviously on zoom, everybody is like right like it's a looser container. Everybody is kind of doing their own thing, and we always want to respect where people are at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): At the same time. I always
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like to encourage people to put their cameras on and, you know, want you to think about. If this is something that you want to encourage in your groups if you're if you're on zoom, because when camera is on it is a little bit of a tighter container, right? We can see more of each other. Also, when we have our cameras on, maybe we're a little less likely to check email
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): social media for our phones. Right? So it is very different online than in person, in terms of container, for many reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and but cameras can sometimes help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): With that a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right.
So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as I always do. And again, I'm gonna keep on just mentioning facilitation pieces in a in a multi day, intensive or retreat, I almost always second and third day in the morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): To have open time without curriculum, where it's space to connect in to see what's been resonating from the day before to see what new ideas are moving through to see if anybody had dreams. Usually we some of us dream more when we're in containers like this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and just the facilitate from a facilitation point of view. The reason why I have this isn't because I don't have enough curriculum for the day, as we've all discovered, we all have way more curriculum right than we need, but it's an opportunity to continue to embody the new awareness, the shifts that right the learnings that are coming forward
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to navigate blocks that are coming up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of those pieces. It it is part of go go deep versus wide, and really allow time and space for the slowing down, so that even deeper change and learning can happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So all that being said, I'd love to hear some shares what's been moving through you since yesterday? What's really been resonating for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What dreams maybe came through the night last night that maybe feel important, or that you're not sure, and you want a little help or support on. And where are places where you're feeling a little like?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, blocked or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know who would like to share Robin
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel a little self-conscious jumping right in. But thank you for starting us off.
Robyn Vogel: Yes,
Robyn Vogel: I just not everybody was there, but had a a big process at the end yesterday
Robyn Vogel: in the after hour in the after party
Robyn Vogel: the extra extra extra action, the extra yeah.
Robyn Vogel: And it's funny cause I woke up this morning with the you you you asked me, what do I want to embody more.
Robyn Vogel: I said. Clarity, you said you sound really clear already.
Robyn Vogel: and which I woke up this morning, and I was like, yes, I am clear like. It took me till this morning to whatever I did last night, and sleep
Robyn Vogel: to wake up and realize. Oh, I am clear, and I am, the fear is about
Robyn Vogel: you mentioned like am I afraid of? Like not being seen as like playful, but also like in integrity, or whatever the words. I think when I woke when I got here this morning, I realized like.
Robyn Vogel: it's about stepping more into leadership, more into that sacred power that we spent yesterday on.
Robyn Vogel: and I feel tears again, and like just letting people know like, this is what this is about, like. You can come and play with me if you want to, but only if you're within my wheel of consent, to use Betty Martin's language, you know, and if you're not, then
Robyn Vogel: go play in somebody else's playground.
Robyn Vogel: yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so all over, Robin, I can really feel your clarity on that. And the energy that's coming with that.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, I feel, you know, like it.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah.
Robyn Vogel: it's yeah.
Robyn Vogel: Yep, it's not. Yeah. I think it's not just out myself, like it's not brand new. It's like, I've just kind of put it aside, I guess. Also Covid happened. So everything was put aside. But you know now it's back. It's here. My workshops are in person and you know some of them. So anyway, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, or is still moving. But that's from this morning. Yeah, I'm so so glad to hear it, and that you stuck, you know, wi with it and that these pieces are coming through now, and I feel tell me if I'm getting this right. As I'm listening to you, I feel like you're gonna do this, Robin, you are. Gonna be clear with your
Robyn Vogel: yes, I definitely am. Yep.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Essie.
Essie Richards: is it okay to share a celebration?
Essie Richards: So I've been waiting for this day? In my cycle. And I cleared out the day, and I prepared. And I just wrote my course today. So I'm so excited.
Essie Richards: So I just like when my energy started to like, go down.
Essie Richards: I was like. I just danced a bit.
Essie Richards: And I think what was really beautiful was yesterday just talking about sacred power
Essie Richards: was just like the last little nudge that I needed to. Just. You know, I spent really the best of season, really working through some like
Essie Richards: big stuff within me that was keeping me small. And it was super hard.
Essie Richards: And then I just I just was trusting the process that I was getting exactly what I needed from the course. It wasn't looking like
Essie Richards: I imagined it was for other people, but it would come together. And today it was just like I just got after I finished. I just kept, I finished at like an hour before we started here, and I was just walking around my house like
Essie Richards: like it just feels like it's totally life changing moment for me, so I feel like I've always had it in me
Essie Richards: for as long as I can remember, like this sort of galaxy inside that I've never been able to get out and share. So I'm so grateful for you and this community and all the shared wisdom and learning. Because.
Essie Richards: yeah, I feel like I've just stepped off a really cool
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cliff, and I'm gonna hand guide or something. It's really good. I can feel it in the energy also that you're sharing Se. And I saw it this morning, too, and I could feel this. This is funny that you're calling a big, big energy cause. I could feel your energy so big, just coming even off of the Google Doc, that inspiration
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and and that coming together. And it is just such a beautiful. I made a couple of comments, but just such a beautiful journey that you've created. Yay, yay, all around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalite.
Margalit: Yeah. Now that Essie said it, I was going to say it felt like a rebirth. I don't think that's
Margalit: too dramatic, so I'm so anti drama.
Margalit: But the idea that I thought stepping into my aligned or sacred power
Margalit: makes people feel dismissed or uncomfortable, or what else did I think? I always forget one of em. It doesn't matter. Oh, not fair.
Margalit: and
that's what I believed, and I never thought. That's what I believed.
Margalit: so that so now that, as he said, it's more like stepping off a cliff. Now, what?
Margalit: Instead of a rebirth, I was like a rebirth now stepping up. A click is more accurate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is the the this idea of stepping off a cliff. What is it bringing up for you?
Margalit: I don't know what will occur. Yeah.
Margalit: And in the cave experience it was pretty profound for me that
Margalit: when you asked, Who's something to the effect of Who's in front of you? Right? Who's that aligned it was me?
Margalit: And then what do you want to tell her. I just gave myself a huge embrace.
Margalit: so I know I'm embraced and I could fall off the cliff and be okay. I guess I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the what I was just feeling as you were talking that it's almost especially when we talk about stepping off cliffs. It's a lot of this archetypal fool energy which is, and the fool is amazing, not foolish, the way we think about it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our culture, but in archetype and in taro the fool is the beginner in the most amazing of ways. The the fool isn't jaded by experience or held back by that old thing happened, and that happened so I can't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The fool just has a little bit on his or her shoulder or their shoulder, and they're like I am ready. And let's see what's gonna happen. And that's a little bit the energy that I'm feeling from you as you talk about this this energy of freedom in a rebirth, a new beginning, which is so much what the fool is about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it it feels to me. Tell me if I'm you know, if all of this resonates. And I'm getting all of this right. It really feels like something has really loosened around
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ability to willingness to stand in your power. Whether or not it makes people uncomfortable. And that's what's bringing this this new energy?
Margalit: No, definitely.
Margalit: exactly. I'm I'm like semi exploding. It's not like this. Oh, my God! It's it's which to me feels better
Margalit: for lack of a better word. What did you say? No, I know there's a recording. The fool isn't
Margalit: blank by experience. I love that. What it help jaded by experience, kind of like, how how little kids are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they? They have this idea of curiosity, and they can do anything right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because they're not jaded by past failure.
Margalit: Love that.
Margalit: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. I'm so excited to hear it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina.
you know. Good afternoon, everyone.
Nina von Feldmann: What really sat!
Nina von Feldmann: What really landed with me was the conversations of
Nina von Feldmann: power, of course, and where we give our power away, and I'm in this fulcrum point in my life right now. It's just incredibly overwhelming and kind of scary.
Nina von Feldmann: and I'm in a recapitulation as I'm standing on a precipice is what it basically is. It's very. I mean, it's not
Nina von Feldmann: yeah. It's it's a. It's a tough place. And and as I'm recapitulating, I'm looking at
Nina von Feldmann: the where I've given my power away, and the what landed the most for me, what really hit the most home? And then I carried in to the evening, and continued to contemplate was
Nina von Feldmann: when our when our sovereign be, when our sovereignty was called into question, when we were younger, as a belief, we made around power when somebody took the power from us or
Nina von Feldmann: all of those things. It's kind of a no brainer, of course, but it really landed. I'm like
Nina von Feldmann: right, and my response to it was to step into my power. Because that's how I respond. If somebody takes my power, I step in.
Nina von Feldmann: and what got me to where I'm at right now is wow! That has such a blind side
Nina von Feldmann: attach to it, because then it becomes a power play.
Nina von Feldmann: It cans, and in my case, my not wanting to get overpowered, I give my power away, and it's just like it. It's revealing a lot where I'm at right now on the map of my life. I'm like, Wow! I thought I was stepping.
Nina von Feldmann: You know, I was thinking it away, and and in the day to day. It looked like I was overpowering. So I was misusing my power. And so that's just really like.
Nina von Feldmann: oh, in the accounting of all of it, I'm like, yeah, that has landed.
Nina von Feldmann: And I'm gonna be processing this for a while. I mean, it's like, the power thing is a shadow. It's like, fully shadow thing. Right?
Nina von Feldmann: Yeah, II can. I can feel the the gravy toss of the the breakthroughs and the awarenesses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you're speaking. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, it feels like you're in this beautiful middle place right now, you know, it's been the overpower and the underpower and the you're you're starting to really kind of see this bigger picture of all that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has been working for you. And I'm really excited
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to see how this is gonna evolve. It's such big stuff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the emotion that's coming up right now.
Nina von Feldmann: the
Nina von Feldmann: frustration around powerlessness
Nina von Feldmann: and not being able to blame anybody else except for my own adult choices that came from a really wounded childhood.
Nina von Feldmann: I want to make excuses, but I can't.
Nina von Feldmann: and
Nina von Feldmann: the feeling of powerlessness like I've I've run my entire life away from feeling powerless
Nina von Feldmann: right into the arms of like just
Nina von Feldmann: that. It's
Nina von Feldmann: the just the in my face. Awareness of that
Nina von Feldmann: is really hard just to grapple with. And and part of my emotion is that I'm just really, genuinely afraid right now for my life.
Nina von Feldmann: Yeah, I know that it's beautiful, because it's
Nina von Feldmann: where like
just
Nina von Feldmann: and not not like. I'm not afraid of death
Nina von Feldmann: right now, but it does. It's a it's a type of dying. I'm on the precipice of a type of dying, and
Nina von Feldmann: when.
Nina von Feldmann: when powerless or no poor, poor choices, or just turning a blind eye for self protection, which is another piece that was named yesterday, that protective space, self protection.
Nina von Feldmann: It's up
Nina von Feldmann: powerlessness, more powerlessness. It's just like this perpetuating wheel. And and the buck stops here because, you know, in the in the journey of, like the Phoenix.
Nina von Feldmann: Everything burns down to the ground and then fly like like rises back up. And I fully understand that energy. And I trust that cause I've I've had that experience in my life long enough often enough to know that I can trust, but it's the the burning and taking it all back down to the
Nina von Feldmann: Carbon State is really
Nina von Feldmann: tricky.
Nina von Feldmann: and I will get to the point of celebrating it. But it's a it's a I'm not quite at the celebration point. Yet I'm celebrating that. Wow. Okay. Now I have more clear seeing now I can map things out and create. I could celebrate that. But, man, it's scary. This is like real big life, scary stuff that's happening like Whoa.
Nina von Feldmann: you know, you turn 50. And this is what happens. I guess this is what happens to me. Yeah, yeah. So that's the emotion. It's like, I guess it's partly pride and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just feeling embarrassed and shame and guilt, and like I failed and and but I know that's temporary.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know that's the, you know, if there is just one piece that I would toss to you for right now. What I would say is, when that shame comes up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see if you can meet it with self love and compassion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's so much love and compassion for that part of you that the only way up until now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it has known to survive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has been to give your power away. That's changing now right on. Not all of this wouldn't be coming up in this way so strongly if you weren't ready for change
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right right. But up until now it has supported you, and it's protected you, and it's done. It's job. So have, if possible, have love and compassion
Nina von Feldmann: as it comes up. Yeah. And when I met my power yesterday.
Nina von Feldmann: In that form. I
Nina von Feldmann: it was me in my
Nina von Feldmann: fully white-haired state age I've always identified with my older
Nina von Feldmann: wise being in front of me, and she held her arms out, and I hugged her, and then we merged so she didn't just give me a gift. We just completely merged. And and I'm just like I'm just gonna stay in that embrace. Come back. And that was really helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Come back to that. And that feeling and that energy.
Nina von Feldmann: Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you.
Nina von Feldmann: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anika.
Anika L: Hi, everyone. I have a question. I'm not sure what category falls in that. It came up when we did the when you the journaling questions yesterday.
Anika L: And what came up is that I'm feeling like I'm lecturing to them like a child like I'm talking down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Them
Anika L: anytime. I'm sharing my wisdom, whether it's with clients or or friends like when they share what I've learned.
Anika L: The most susceptible of them. Those who have been, I would say.
Anika L: gone through some sort of trauma that's still triggering for them.
Anika L: They take it as I'm talking down to them, even if that's not
Anika L: my intention. And the fact that they're picking that up
Anika L: means that for me that in some part of me. I am talking down to them, and I don't, and I can't feel into
Anika L: where that comes from, or the the the route, and how to change that aspect, because that's holding me back from sharing, because I don't want to talk down to people. I don't want them to feel like I'm criticizing the way they are, and saying, Well, do it this way, this way is better. I don't want that energy in there.
Anika L: cause. I know there's a better way to to to to transmit. But I don't know what it is, so I don't know if you have any. Yeah, I'm so glad you're you're bringing this forward, and at first I want to check. It sounds like you feel intuitively that this is in part coming from you, and it's not just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): perception by others. But I just kind of want to ask again intuitively.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are you feeling that there is a lecturer inside of you that is looking down on others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or is this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): mostly kind of projection from others?
Anika L: Both.
Anika L: But I
Anika L: II think what I'm doing is is modeling what I see as in this is how we show others that
Anika L: there's another way by telling them. This is how you do it, and I don't want to be telling people. This is how you do it. Yes.
Anika L: Is that energy that I wanted to shift? Yeah, what's the what is when you go into that energy of I'm gonna tell others how to do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is the predominating belief or fear? That's kind of leading that I'm going to tell others how to do it.
Anika L: but the belief is that I already did it that way, and it doesn't work. And I found a way that works.
Anika L: But and I have to remind myself. It works for me. That doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody else.
Anika L: and the fear is
Anika L: me telling them and being, and that being rejected?
Anika L: The pushback from
Anika L: Can you repeat that question?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, when you're feeling? II think you got it. But I'll ask again when you're when you're feeling that you're lecturing, you know they need to do it this way. What is what's really motivating, that
Anika L: I don't want them to make the mistakes that I made.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So there's there's a fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is, would we? Could we call it a fear that others are gonna make mistakes.
Anika L: or what I consider to be mistakes, I guess, is more that yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you willing to do a little bit of an experiment? I don't know how it's gonna go. But we can kinda see?
Anika L: Okay, I'm just gonna go on your face. So I don't see everybody else and get this
Anika L: thrown off. Yeah. Good idea.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see if you can lightly recall a time in the past
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where you were really scared that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): someone else was gonna make a mistake, and maybe you felt kind of helpless or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): out of control in that situation
Anika L: there a number of times.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, what's one that? And it just easily rises to the surface.
Anika L: Oh.
Anika L: I guess it's the worst one.
Anika L: no.
Anika L: it's the one where I saw I was, I guess, under 10, between 8, 10 somewhere there, and I saw my neighbor
Anika L: chained his dog, and then he beat his dog.
Anika L: and
Anika L: I was so mad to see that. And
Anika L: and and I knew it was wrong, I mean, how could it possibly be right? And my grandmother because I was staying at my grandmother, and she didn't do anything. She refused to tell him anything. She's like. Nope, you can't see anything. Let him be, and I would just hide and watch him do this, and of course the dog died
Anika L: eventually. And that's an example of so many situations where I wanted to say something, and I was held back constantly held that no, don't see anything. No, it's none of your business. No, they'll go in there, and yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, and so I well, I can see this. Tell me if you can see this just even as you're describing that memory. It's like because there was a a being held back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe there's an overcompensation for that a little bit. Now, with these friends or clients where the lecturing comes into place.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does that land?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I don't want them to hurt? Yeah, yes, exactly. It's for them. It's for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Would it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be okay? Does it for us to work a little bit on this, based on this memory with the dog. Do you feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a place to be able to do that?
Anika L: We can? I have looked at that memory a number of times. Different aspects.
Anika L: So be interesting to see what comes up this time, because it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): still bothers me a lot. Yeah, yeah, I like, I said, experiment. Right? Let's let's see how it goes. Okay. So we're gonna I'm gonna lead you through a process where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're briefly gonna go back to that moment in time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And but then from there anything can happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So from the real to the fantastical, we're gonna divert
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from history, and you'll know I'll you know I'll lead you through it. But we're we're we're really using this memory as a jumping board to find such a deeper impulse inside of you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the most, the 2 most important things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we go through. This
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is Number one. I'm gonna keep on reminding you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Be in your body and look through your eyes. Okay, as much as you can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and number 2. The more smarty pants you are, the harder it's gonna be, because I know you're smarty pants, like all people like me and all people right? So you're gonna want to make meaning and and all of that, we'll we'll do that afterwards.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is about looking through your eyes and being in your body, and look flicking through your eyes and being in your body. Okay? So I might at some point. If I sense smartypants coming in, I might just say, come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sound good. Yes. okay, great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if it's comfortable, close your eyes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and come back to that scene where you were seeing this man do this to his dog, and you felt like you couldn't do or say anything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, Anika, I want to invite you to to be in your you said 8 to 10 year old. Be in your body and look through your eight-year-old eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and just tell us what you see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Your your eight-year-old dies.
Anika L: I see this big man who's so strong, and this poor dog who
Anika L: he's probably not very healthy to begin with, and he's tied up. and the dog can't get away, and the dog doesn't know why.
Anika L: doesn't know why it's being punished like that. And it was
Anika L: baby's award
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and he not couldn't get away.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so, Anika, as you look through, stay grounded.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can you feel grounded?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So here's where we're gonna divert from history. You're doing really. Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you could do or say anything in that moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you knew that it would be okay, no matter what, from the real to the fantastical right. Like all of a sudden, you can fly or write whatever it is. If you could do or say anything that you wanted to do in that moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you knew that it would be okay, no matter what.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the impulse?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you want to do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stand between him and the dog. so be in your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel that strength in your body and slow it down right? We're diverting from history here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and be in your 10 year old self as you walk
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with this conviction. and stand between the man and the dog.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and notice how this feels to do this in your 10 year old body? How does it feel?
Anika L: Scary
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what else? There's same time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at least, I'm, trying yes, it's. I didn't listen to everyone else, and I tried. Yes. and that feeling right. This is scary. But I am trying. Anyway, I am doing what I know is right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that feel in your 10 year old body to be able to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to try, anyway, and do what you know is right, even if it's scary.
Anika L: it's
Anika L: I feel more ferocious
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as where do you feel that ferociousness in your 10 year old self?
Anika L: He was here, and and
Anika L: guess solo flexes. I feel more in my belly, though. My stomach
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, good. You're doing so well, Anika. I wanna invite you to lean into that ferociousness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): above your mouth and in your belly. Let your 10 year old self have this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this conviction, this ferociousness, this knowing that you get to try.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again, if you could do or say anything. How are you feeling? I'm noticing you're you're rocking back and forth. You grounded
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because I wanna scream at him. Tell him it's not okay, yes, yes, yes, good. You're going exactly where I wanted you to go next. What wants to happen next? So stay grounded right, feel the ground beneath. You feel the power of the ferociousness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and slow it down, and just be in your body as you tell him exactly what you want to tell him.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and just be there and let yourself have that.
Anika L: It's coming out healthier now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): screaming at him like he's a crazy brief. Yes, yes, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Notice how you feel in your 10 year old body to be able to have this agency
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and this ferociousness, and to be able to say what you know is right. How does that feel in your 10 year old body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so liberating body? Are you feeling that liberation of your No
Anika L: in the in my stomach?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. lean into. Let yourself have that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take one more moment. With that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you get to have that.
Anika L: It's like a fight to have it, though. That's well we're we're. It's like, we're excavating something that got buried a long time ago. So it's gonna right. There's gonna be a little bit of a fight right now. That's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So allow yourself to feel it as much as you can feel that liberation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that ferociousness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah.
Anika L: there's so many instances
Anika L: who have been physically held back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm, hmm!
Anika L: In the in my marriage. Same thing
now
Anika L: literally held back elbow. Kicked walked, stepped on pinched.
Anika L: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So take one more moment with this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): such beautiful work really well done. Let your 10 year old have this. Let your adult have this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, when you're ready can open your eyes.
Anika L: Hmm!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Be nicely done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really nicely done. What's feeling important from that piece of work
Anika L: that I'm an adult now?
Anika L: and it's amazing how I've let
Anika L: myself be shut down
Anika L: by people who were afraid of the consequences.
Anika L: whether they were afraid of the consequences for themselves or for me.
Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so now, right we did a little bit of work. It's like that ferociousness and that liberation. It got a little buried under history right? And that piece of work that we just did. It's like you went in, and you grabbed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You grabbed some of it for yourself to have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. So one thing is, I would recommend
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coming back to that the end of that you know visualization where you're speaking your truth and feel that feeling in your body. Right? So that's number one. Let's continue to practice that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then what I wanna ask you is, now, when you think about this lecturing others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what? What are you starting to understand or see differently, or feel differently about all of that? What's coming up as we just kind of lightly look back at that now.
Anika L: Now I can say.
Anika L: look here, here is another way. It's a way.
Anika L: It's not the way. But here's another way of going about
Anika L: whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just that shift.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're more deeply seated in your power without that feeling of the 10 year old about my help, I need to help this person right? But I can't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from that power and just that shift of language and energy, you can still share the suggestion. But the other person gets to feel empowered in it as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful, really nice. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being willing to do to be in the experiment with us and for your courage
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): everyone deep breath in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else that wants to be shared or spoken this morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie. And then, Kathy!
Dr. Josie: This is just a quick share. II was processing through the whole journey.
Dr. Josie: and I realized when it was in the cave I was crawling back up through this hole, and then it came to me. It was like Persephone crawling out of the underworld, and I have been in the underworld for so damn long.
Dr. Josie: I can't even tell you I have walked through. It's like I could. I could take people by the hand and show them every little looking cranny. Not that there's not more work to be done down there, but it was really like, yeah, it was really enlightening, so to speak.
coming back up.
Dr. Josie: And yeah, and I've got on part of why I was late is because there's this whole thing going on with these big Mega corporations and all this pet food, talking about animals being injured? I got on and did a live on Facebook and just told my story. And all the way back to 1997. And so it was. Yeah, it was really awesome to just be able to
Dr. Josie: just and just do it from a place I was sitting in my herb garden with my dog, and just really relaxed and just sharing so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, from your power, right from your power. I'm so happy to hear it, and I love that image of the the crawling out of the underworld and come back to that feeling as well.
Dr. Josie: Good.
Dr. Josie: thank you so much. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Cathy Norris: Morning. Good morning. I'm feeling it. Look, it's small. So much powerful things happening
Cathy Norris: here with Josie and Anika but I just was so intrigued by
Cathy Norris: when you said.
Cathy Norris: Share your dream. Yeah.
all I all I wanna share.
Cathy Norris: II don't even remember all of my dream. But I do, remember, and and it's a theme that's been in my dreams all my life, so I'll just share real quick if you I don't know I can't, not. I can't pass this up. Yeah.
Cathy Norris: And and I'm I'm always like on a quest. And on the in this dream I was
Cathy Norris: I'm with people. Sometimes I'm alone, sometimes with others on this journey. Somewhere totally different. This is a tropical place, and I was
Cathy Norris: looking for
Cathy Norris: it's weird. It's like a peer
Cathy Norris: at the a very, very long pier that goes out
Cathy Norris: onto the ocean
Cathy Norris: connected with a star.
Cathy Norris: a star. Yes, it doesn't even make sense. that's
Cathy Norris: and and I've
Cathy Norris: I found it at the end of my dream, or before I woke up kind of I mean, I was like without the the pier
Cathy Norris: telling the people I was with. I don't even remember they were people I know, but I don't remember who they were.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, how did you feel when you found the pier.
Cathy Norris: Oh, I definitely didn't feel like I had arrived. I felt like, Oh, okay, here's the pier.
Cathy Norris: Now we gotta go to the pier. And
Cathy Norris: there's always more to do. You know, it's like, Okay, so how does that relate to what's going on for you right now? Oh.
Cathy Norris: oh.
Cathy Norris: well, I'm yeah.
Cathy Norris: Yeah. I mean.
Cathy Norris: it's where I am. I'm going to right now. It's really heavy, but not I mean, it's it's my business. It's not my life. My life is great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But yeah, yeah. So this feeling right in the business of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now, I finally found the pier. But now I have to right, and there's more we've Jo. Oh, gosh! I've already done, but I've just begun totally, and II mean I've done gone through so many like this is.
Cathy Norris: Well, I haven't ever felt like I wanted to give up. Yeah. And I actually. And it's been many, many years embarrassed to say how many years I've been
Cathy Norris: working on my business and trying to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): don't. I mean.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you are not alone at all. Would it be okay for us to take just a few minutes to go a little deeper with this. See if there's something else there.
Cathy Norris: I I'm gonna tell you that I feel guilty about doing that because it's 8, 51. And you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I've planned for this time all good and and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of this is also so that I can model
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how to, you know, coaching one on one in a group? Right? Not so. Anyone should do some of these techniques without getting trained first, like what I just did with Anika. That's that's not what that is, but just. It's important for us also as facilitators and group leaders. Right? The coaching one on one is an important piece of the process. So you're all good. And you just speaking of power and space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II wanna invite you to take up this much space as you need. I promise I will let you know if it is too much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, yes, I'm unwilling. Use this as a practice here of taking up space so that you can bring that feeling out into hold for where you need it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I, for whatever reason, tell me if this resonates with you. I'm hooking on a little bit to the star like. It's very interesting to me that there's a star you mentioned. There's a star at the end of this pier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd like to go a little bit deeper with that if that feels okay. Yeah. And I'll just say the whole dream was in daylight, too. So it does almost feel comfortable to close your eyes. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So bring yourself back to the dream, Kathy, where you finally get to the pier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there's now there's this long pier, and there's this star at the end of it. What does the star look like?
Cathy Norris: I don't.
Cathy Norris: I don't think I see the I don't see the stars, just the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the knowledge that there's okay
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sense into the energy of the star.
Cathy Norris: into the energy of what? The star? Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it? What is the energy of it feel like, even if you can't see it?
Cathy Norris: Okay, it.
Cathy Norris: So
Cathy Norris: it's
Cathy Norris: it. Feel it feels like everything. It's just like it's like.
Cathy Norris: it's
Cathy Norris: I can't put it into words. And it's not just for me. It's for the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it's important for me to to
Cathy Norris: get to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, beautiful. You're doing so. Well, continue to connect into all of that and that that energy of the star. And even though you can't see it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask the Star what it wants you to know about your business.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does it want you to know about your business.
Cathy Norris: I'm I'm really struggling with as doing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's okay. It comes. And sometimes it doesn't. That's it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more than okay. Right? Cause you've the important piece is that you've connected in with this everything feeling of the star.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So continue to lean into that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just feel that everything feeling. And you said, it's particularly important for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you feel into that feeling in your body. Kathy, why is it important for you?
Cathy Norris: I'm already I'm connecting that
Cathy Norris: with why my business is important to me.
Cathy Norris: because
Cathy Norris: II mean, I just feel like it's
Cathy Norris: bigger than than me.
Cathy Norris: But now that I'm saying this, I feel
Cathy Norris: I haven't questions.
Cathy Norris: continuing with my business until
Cathy Norris: this week.
Cathy Norris: and even now I'm like I'm now I'm wondering, am I?
Cathy Norris: Where's my power in this?
Cathy Norris: Is it like I have a doubt. I have a question that no matter what has happened
Cathy Norris: until this week, which actually even that was scary to me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): why is that important?
Cathy Norris: What you're saying. Well, I'm thinking that.
Cathy Norris: yeah, I mean, what I'm seeing is.
Cathy Norris: it's like, I well, I definitely hate. I'm coming to a decision point again again, even though I have not reconsidered for
Cathy Norris: over a decade. I haven't questioned this.
Cathy Norris: This path.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that might be. You know. All that's come forward might be exactly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the next pieces for today. Sometimes it doesn't all come forward, but if you're up for another 30 s or so, it's just trying. I haven't been.
Cathy Norris: I've been just going with it, instead of
Cathy Norris: checking in with my power about this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think so important. That's so important. So what's alright? 2 things. So first of all, what is a next step for you on this, you know, after the retreat around, checking in with your power, what can you do to for you to be able to check in with your power as you make this decision?
Cathy Norris: Not sure. I mean.
Cathy Norris: it sounds.
Cathy Norris: Maybe it's as simple as just.
Cathy Norris: It's interest is not. It's not necessarily checking in with spirit, it's checking in with my power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it was always vacancy in this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So simple is always best. Right? So II would do that right. So as an example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if the visualization meditation that we did yesterday resonated for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, Fort. Unfortunately, I fell asleep, so I need to do it again. So go back and do it again right, and that that is one way of checking in with your power. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Another
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might be I was thinking about the dream
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the peer. and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it could be interesting to go on a walk as if it was the long pier. I don't even know if you have a pier near where you live, but if not something that's like a long walkway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and kind of bring yourself back to the dream. the beginning of the pier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as you take that walk, be in your power as if you were walking towards the Star
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and asking your power what it wants you to know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that land?
Cathy Norris: It's interesting. I didn't even walk on the pier in the beam, but doesn't matter. Let's continue right. Let's continue. Yes, we are. There are peers. I'm on like Tahoe. So perfect. Yeah. So I think. Go take a walk on a long pier.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you. I'm so glad you asked. I'm so glad you were willing to take up space
alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen, is it a quickie?
Jennifer: No. So another time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, we'll have. We'll definitely have more space, you know, throughout the day. And and our afternoon space. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hang on, and I'll get you.
Jennifer: Thanks, Joanna.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. So a couple of just little loose pieces that I wanted to gather
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from yesterday before we move more deeply. into the work of this morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See, one is I just want to point out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yesterday, as I was setting our container for the retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I did a lot of things that hopefully. You all noticed that we've already learned and talked about, you know, grounding, creating inspiration. And you know, kinda getting people talking. I spoke a little bit to resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I wanted to point out that another thing from yesterday is, and some of you that have been in a lot of retreats with me. You know this by now, because I almost always do it at retreats.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I kind of formally
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): called formally kind of set the container and the circle. After we set our intentions by saying, and by these acts and by our intentions, we name this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): space over these 3 days safe and sacred.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And and then I said some other words around that so first, I just always like to honor my lineage. I learnt those words when I was first learning ritual and circle from an incredible woman named Susan Mary Heller.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in in my tradition like when when I, in leading women's circles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we always, in the beginning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): formally say, we name this space safe and sacred. That is not necessarily. That is not. You don't need to do that by any means. You do things your way, but I just wanted to point it out to say it is kind of nice to think about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is there something as a group that you are naming the space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that was
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that will just and kind of infuse more energy into the container and hold
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I always say the same words at the end of every retreat. Oh, not the same. There's a variation, but you'll see at the end of our retreat tomorrow. I'll also close the container with particular words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I just wanted to throw that into the mix and just. Are there any thoughts or questions on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy?
Cathy Norris: I just want for for any like every session, every in like. If you have weekly sessions. just I don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, go ahead, however, feels right for you whatever frequency, whatever words or not at all. But I just kind of wanted to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): point. Pull that as another container building piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. The other thing I wanted to for us to look at briefly, it relates to power a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is projections.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So when we are facilitating groups and and when we're leaders. a lot of things get projected on us, we're like we're a blank screen of of you know, different participants, projections.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the the tighter we can create the container and the more safety and the more awareness and right like maybe the the less unconscious those projections are. But still it happens
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and sometimes that projections can be. You know, she's so obnoxious, or she's mean, or you know she doesn't like me, and she likes the other one better. You know all all the things and sacred depths we go into all the the little nooks and crannies in terms of one on one work. But the one that I wanted to just mention
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this morning is one that doesn't get talked about too often. But I think it's a really important one for us to be aware of as facilitators is that oftentimes the projection onto the facilitator can be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You are amazing. You are the bee's knees. You are so much better than I am right. There's like a power over thing that happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): A little bit, in a way, from a person. And and it's it's very ador, a lot of adoration. And you are just the best
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And I'm just bringing it up, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we're not in check and grounded as facilitators, it can be so easy to just take all of that in. And I think we should take pieces of it in right, we should have healthy like. Yes, I am amazing. And yes, I did support you with that. And right. This is great, you know, for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said when it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when it's overly right, when it almost like feels a little uncomfortable, because someone is just going on and on, either to you directly or within the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one energetics wise for us as facilitators. It's important to know that that's a a projection right? That's not about us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again, even though we're awesome, right? It's not about us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if it's appropriate, it can really be a learning moment for the the participant.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2, because they're projecting their power onto right? So it is a moment to actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): support them, to feel back into their power and their amazingness and their majesticness, and how great they are. And so in those moments when it's if it's if it's a balanced amount, I will just say, Thank you. I you know I take it right. And and we did this together. But if it is that over amount, you know, I'll say thank you so much. I don't wanna invalidate the the participant. I'll say thank you so much, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I suspect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that all the things that you're seeing in me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're seeing them because you have those things inside of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And would it be okay for you to take a moment and and feel some of that inside of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And there's also some shadowyungian pieces in that which I don't necessarily get into unless it's a shadow training. And people know the language right, but it's like whatever we see in others we have inside of ourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it's important for participants. It's important for the health of the community for leaders to not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just take in that excess adoration, because then it does it. It unequals the the playing field.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pause on that for a moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any thoughts or anything that's sparking, or follow up questions on that piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Marca Lee.
Margalit: So I had a situation
Margalit: I led a group. And this was after the group. One of the participants came up to me, and she was praising me like, look what you've done! Look at the kind of group we are.
Margalit: I thanked her. and then I responded.
Margalit: and you know that wouldn't be possible without all of you in case.
Margalit: she reflected back. And yeah, I don't remember exactly how she said it. But and I wish that you could just take in
Margalit: my, my acknowledgment, of you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so II said, Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad you're bringing it right. Cause it is that balance of cause. We can also sometimes deflect it. And we don't own our greatness. Right? So it's that aligned place of us as facilitators owning our greatness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): while also having the space, if it's over like too much per, you know, production giving our participant the space tone there. Greatness
Margalit: as well. Yeah, it was a good lesson for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yes,
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I will often, you know, when there is that situation, and I do receive that from clients. I always mirror back to them like
Heather Newcomb. she/her: they were able to recognize that because they have that same awareness, and that, you know, if they didn't possess it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's right. They would not be able to recognize it. Yeah, you spot it, you got it. That's a a shadow, you know, one of the shadow foundations right? You spot the good things, but not the not so savory things. We own it all. Yeah, I love that good.
good, good, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a short break, and then we're gonna come back and look at leadership styles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's take until 1225 Eastern, and then we'll come back and keep on going, and I'll hang on, for if anybody needs anything too, or also see, at 1225.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, let's come back. And again, if you are here and you can turn your camera on, let me know. So I know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how many of us are back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna I'm gonna tell you all a little story
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I think I may have referenced this retreat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yesterday at some point, but a number of years ago was about 8 years ago.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I was leading a retreat that was part of a year-long program. It was an intimate group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of people. It was 12 people. And this group we they had been with me for years really tight-knit group working on business
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyway, for 1 one of the retreats we were
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we were looking at at different aspects of their business. I don't even remember the context exactly anymore, but I prepared this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ritual in the evening for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We were here in Charlotte. I usually do my retreats at a hotel.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they didn't know what we were gonna be doing. I told them just to bring bathing suits that we were gonna we're gonna need bathing suits and be in water, and the plan was to to transport them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the hotel out past the suburbs to kind of the exurbs of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Charlotte, where another client who wasn't in that group had a home, basically in the woods. And it was this beautiful setting with a big field.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then a walk from the field. There was this. It was a pool, but it looked other worldly, truly, especially at night. There were all of these rocks around it. It's just it looked like a body of water in in the middle of a magical realm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And my idea for this ritual
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was we were, had been working a bit with leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the idea was that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): each woman was gonna have an opportunity to proclaim
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who she was stepping into, based on all the other work we had done in the retreat to to proclaim this new place that she was stepping into. And then, however, she wanted to get into the pool, and kind of go under as a cleanse of the old and a rebirth. And then the other women in the group were there in the pool
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to catch her.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It doesn't sound as magical as it was. It it was I mean we we were drumming. We were. It was. It was a a outer worldly, you know, incredible experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the reason why I'm sharing about this right now is because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of of my plan which I had visioned, you know, months before, as I was seeing this happen is we would start the evening off in the field, in, in, with inside of the woods in a circle, and we would do lots of different things. And the way I had vision this in my mind was that they weren't gonna see me before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I would already be in the woods, as you know, they would all come in their bathing suits, and what I had envisioned was that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I was dressed up in some kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like beautiful bikini, and I have, you know, butterfly wings. And it it was, gonna be this whole theatrical like with a bikini, or whatever bathing suit. You know, it's almost like an otherworldly situation. Right? So this is what I was visioning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But instead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that day I picked the most sporty bathing suit you can imagine. It was like blue and white stripes. It covered up most of who I am, and I did none of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the the reason was a little bit some of my own body stuff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it was also because it was. There was a part of me that was like I I don't know if I can. I don't know if this is allowed here. Not not allowed, but it was like I was hiding this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of me that was this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): central muse in the woods, even though it was clearly inside of me, because this is the vision that I have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The ritual was beautiful. It worked, anyway. Nobody in the circle knew this other thing that I had planning so that they had. They had nothing to compare it to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when they showed up, and I was there in this sporty bathing suit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I did feel it right that the the whole circle. It was like I wasn't fully there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with all of what I was meant to bring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to that incredible experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But so just take a moment and raise your hand
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you can resonate with the story, not with the the details of like creating something in the woods, but if if you can resonate with what I'm I'm talking about. Yes, Cecilia Margalie, I see some other hands raised.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the reason why I'm sharing this story here with us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because how we show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to lead
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how we show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to facilitate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've already looked at this. A lot is very important, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the part that I want to kind of get a little bit more into right now is that sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we feel like we can't bring all of ourselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to our groups, to our facilitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or sometimes we feel like we should be someone else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? We should be just like our teacher or our mentor, or that person, or this, that, and the other thing. instead of being us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because maybe we feel like who we are, isn't good enough, or who we are isn't dynamic enough, or who we are isn't smart enough, or spiritual enough, or sacred enough, or that part of me isn't allowed right. This and this and this part of me are allowed as facilitator. But that and that and that part of me aren't allowed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as facilitator. Are. Are you with me on this right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the truth is that the key to the best kind of leadership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and facilitation is to be you right. It's so simple to say it, but then an application. It can be harder, right? But the best is to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are most
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): powerful and empowering when there is a congruence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): between who you are and how you show.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to say that again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You are most powerful and empowering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when there is a congruence between who you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how you show up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so let's pause on that for a moment, and I'd love to just hear a share or 2 on what this is just starting to spark for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's feeling important here so far for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or what about the story did you resonate with? Or did you see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin?
Robyn Vogel: Yeah. And if anybody else wants to share before me. I was. I was gonna say, if anyone that hasn't spoken yet to
Robyn Vogel: good Emily.
Emily Wright: Emily, go ahead. It's quick uncomfortable. I mean one. I love the story, and I was like, thank you for sharing that.
Emily Wright: and I wish I was there. But before that experience, because that would have been magical. And then, too.
Emily Wright: part of me is like, Yes, let me be me. And then there's a big part of me that's like, Oh, my God! No, that part of me I will be. There's so much fear of.
Emily Wright: It's like day. It's dangerous to be me. It's dangerous to share that part of me. So that's just what's resonating right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad you're speaking to that right cause. That shows up whatever the meet is right, whether it's, you know, similar to the story shared, or I'm Southern. I can't show my Southernness, or I have a potty mouth, or II am big, whatever it is it it is dangerous. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and Jen, yes, you you got that quote exactly right, and thank you for sharing it in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin. Go ahead.
Robyn Vogel: No, I think I was just gonna say, you know the same like II guess the point I'll highlight about myself is like, I know this
Robyn Vogel: priestess, goddess
part.
Robyn Vogel: I didn't want to say, part like it's who I am but letting it have full expression, like that.
Robyn Vogel: yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and whatever it is those parts that we're kind of like hiding. We can say we're putting them a little in shadow. Or I don't know. Is this okay? Can I right? We actually wanna work to continually bring more and more of those out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, Cecilia.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this relates directly to your question about magic yesterday as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you seeing a connection there?
Cecilia Kremer: Yes, thank you so much for that. II was totally connected to it when you mentioned.
Cecilia Kremer: and what is coming up for me was is related to what Emily said, and what I'm what I'm looking forward to is like how to go through that. Who? Because what is happening to me. I mean, I actually appreciating that, even though it was not perfect, you still did it. I think what is happening to me is like I have.
Cecilia Kremer: II know I have all this power, and I can't manifest that I don't have. I mean, there's a courage part. There's the fear is just too strong. And then I'm like, if I'm not having that, I'd rather not have anything.
Cecilia Kremer: So I'm like cluttering my calendar with a lot of like distractions. And
Cecilia Kremer: I'm just avoiding. So that's where I'm stuck. And and I'm I'm hoping that you're gonna move along with this, that it's gonna hoping that some of what we do this morning will help. I am curious.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Did you get anything from yesterday that is related when we are as we were looking at power that
Cecilia Kremer: is relate. You can be related to this, even if you haven't fully applied it yet. What? What was important about yesterday around this? Yeah, thank you for asking. I think I have been
Cecilia Kremer: more comfortable with the power under dynamic
Cecilia Kremer: and afraid of stepping out of it and into power over.
Cecilia Kremer: So that was very enlightening for me that I can have aligned power, that although I may, you know, I may still have to go back and forth to find my alignment that there's that for me to move towards. So that was very helpful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good! Good. I'm so glad. And so that's an important piece, right? So quick diversion, but important for all of us, and also as facilitators. Remember, there is a difference between a breakthrough and a transformation in our one on one work and in our group work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What Celia just shared
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): happened for her yesterday. Incredible breakthrough, right? So important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But just to have the breakthrough, you can still be stuck. That's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. What's important next for you. One piece here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is for you to come back to that aligned power place right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you to continue to build the the memory, the neural pathways, the body memory of that aligned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): powerplace.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so so important. Right! And then what I would also say, Cecilia is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): start tracking yourself on this and for anyone else here, too. When
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you go into power under right? And maybe in the beginning. You're gonna look. You're not gonna catch it exactly when it happens. You're gonna look back at the end of the day and and you're gonna see it right, but the more that you track it and you look at the situations around it, you're gonna start
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): seeing it
as it's happening.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then in that moment you could connect right then and there into the aligned power and take a different next step. Okay, so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a feeling you're gonna get some other pieces as we continue moving along. But don't for you and for everybody, and then we have to remember as facilitators.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's it's not like next breakthrough and next breakthrough, and next breakthrough. When when we're teaching and leading, we always wanna remind our participants to actually less breakthroughs are kind of better. Right? I again, this is deep, not wide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Stick with the breakthroughs that have come through right? So you know, in my ideal world life changing courses a year long program, and then we have 6 months after this facilitation retreat, and we keep on coming back to the thing that's, you know, cost and time didn't allow for it. But I want for you all to continue to come back to these breakthroughs and practice them and move them towards transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, that was a little bit of a diversion, but I think an important one for all of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Essie is asking, can you remind me how to bring things out of shadow. If there's not great stuff in there. I hate to say I can't, because it takes me, you know, a whole year in advance depth to do it. It's it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is complex. And it takes a lot of, you know, time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to really learn how to do that. But what I will say. Sc. Just in terms of the work that we did yesterday, the same exact instructions I gave Cecilia. If you want to come back to that for yourself. It it it will help you continue to tease
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of the pieces out in the deeper shadow work that we do like in advance. We do lean into the not so savory places a bit more. And and that's powerful in a in a different way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. so okay, so all of this is to say, and I'm gonna repeat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what I said again, and thanks, Jen, for putting it into the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You are most powerful and empowering when there is a congruence between who you are and how you show up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let me ask you some questions on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you think of a time when you've noticed an incongruence between who a leader is and how they're showing up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you may or may not. But if so, what has that felt like for you or inside of the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you think of a time where there's been an incongruence
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with a leader? And then what has that felt like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin saying, it feels unsafe right? And there's a spectrum on that like in this story that I shared not, you know necessarily, but yet in some other ways, for sure it really is a break in the container, and it can feel unsafe.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anika saying, he's stabilizing. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ungrounded. Amy is saying, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or some kind of disconnect that one can feel, but not know what is. Yes, heather saying polarizing Umhm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So you've it's like you can feel you can feel that misleading Kelly's saying, I close down, or I find myself wanting to fix the container in little ways to help make it safer, especially us facilitators and our I'll you know us over responsibilities definitely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather, saying, I instantly think about politician. Imagine if politicians could get more congruent between who they are and how they show up what a different world this would be. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, Caroline, saying I couldn't. You can't put a finger on it that you can smell it right? It's just there's something that doesn't quite feel right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like a Wizard of Oz moment. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so
so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where I want to go from here is for us to kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see. Maybe one part of you that has been hiding a little bit that might wanna be brought out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more. So I'm gonna ask you some questions on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's start with what is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): congruent.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are strengths? I already asked you a version of this question when we started yesterday. But let's go back to it, and maybe you can see some of this even more. Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What strengths, brilliances, characteristics, and interests do you bring when you facilitate? Or if you haven't facilitated yet, that you can see that that's going to easily come through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what strengths, brilliances, characteristics, interests
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you bring when you facilitate that are are easy, right? They come through. They're not hidden.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they're there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Those are important, too. We just want to note them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a 1 one thing for me. You know I have this kind of.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think this combination of gravitas. and also a light sense of humor, you know I like to go deep, but I also keep things light.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So not so heavy. That's just part n, not my natural personality.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When I'm at best, when I'm being negative, it's a whole other situation right? But even just. That was a great example of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And please share in the chat. So what are some of the strengths, brilliance, characteristic parts of your background interests that you bring.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that are really part of you, and you bring them easily. Right so, and an example of part of your background is for a long time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first few years that I facilitated I just like. I kept my Jewishness out of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but my identity as a Jew is really so much of who I am, and them, and the magic that I bring, whether right for anyone who's Jewish or not. Jewish, it doesn't matter but that connection to my identity. And but I didn't. For a number of years. I it was like a barrier, and I just wouldn't let it through into the container
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): once I finally did.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It was just another tool for me to help deepen the container for people, whatever background they came from to be able to resonate with. You know the generational trauma with with some of the pieces with the connection to identity, my immigrant parents, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So again, we're still focusing on. We're the things where there's not a barrier, but they just. They come through easily
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): meanesting connection to source, as a powerful stream of vibrancy. Beautiful. Who else please share in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for invol political or contextual framing. Yep. immigrant, queer, oldest and only daughter. Yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin. Leadership, clarity. So glad the clarity, isn't there, Robin? Spiritually connected? Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie, firsthand experiences in animal care. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these are great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Reverend and irreverent. I definitely resonate with that one, too. Kalida.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take a moment. I'm sure you already know the answer to this question, but just take a moment to to connect the dots even more for yourself whatever you've just identified.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How are these specific traits or things helpful for your specific ideal client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How are these? A perfect match for your ideal client? How do they help?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, the question is for whatever you just identified as those brilliances, those parts of yourself, those interests that come through easily. How are those things really helpful and just a perfect match
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your specific ideal client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because not everybody possesses all the things right that we bring.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're not supposed to. We're we are uniquely us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have one mentor who
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I idolize, not in the over way that we were talking about before, but just in the, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and like for the longest time, is like, Why can't I be her right? Why can't I? You know? And so, and a lot of what I saw in her like we were talking about projection I do have. But there are other things that I have uniquely that she doesn't have, things that she has that I don't have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's like the more that I could see that who I am uniquely is what is important from my work and the people that I call in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more I can just sit in all of that right in an empowered way and and allow it to come through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, let's keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What parts of yourself or your interest or your experience?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you maybe actively or not so actively, but still hiding when it comes to facilities, facilitation, and leadership? Or if you haven't facilitated yet that you anticipate. You might hide these parts of yourself or your identity or your experience.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Another way of asking that question is, what are the parts of yourself or your experience or your identity, that you're maybe repressing a little bit, or judging, or, you know, hating on a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they're not really coming through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your facilitations.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Examples.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So please for Kathy and for other people that need examples. Please share in the chat. So we're getting some there, and also I'll give some examples. Some I already gave, maybe potty mouth right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cursing is not appropriate in all situations. This is true.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but if I use it as an example, because for some of us it is actually part of our power, and and who we are, and and we use it in really helpful ways sometimes. Right? So that's one example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you. It's this more spiritual, magical part of you. Maybe it's a part of your identity like I shared earlier about Jewishness. I know a lot of people that I've worked with, and we've worked through this, you know. They? They won't let their neuro divergence come through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in facilitation. Right? But all of these things are actual superpowers. Even if we have decided that they're not acceptable. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're great examples in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy, or anyone else. Let me know if you are having trouble identifying at least one thing for this point. You don't need more than one but if you're like, Yeah, I'm just not sure. Let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne. You want to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or maybe you have nothing to share.
Suzanne Culberg: I'm not sure because a lot of these things I have.
Suzanne Culberg: But like the last year or so, especially because I've been doing my daily podcasts. That's been the real advantage of that I shared. When my mom passed.
Suzanne Culberg: I shared how hard things were.
Suzanne Culberg: I shared like all sorts of things that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're really tough and like, Oh, my gosh, I have like a vulnerability hangover. Oh, I know everyone's gonna hate me. No, you you've done it amazingly, and my my impression is you do share so much like there is so much congruence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I just wonder if there's there is something like on the edges a little bit, or even something that maybe is coming through. But you're not leaning into it fully. So let me ask you this question. It might spark something else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is a belief or 2 that you have about what you absolutely cannot be as a facilitator?
Suzanne Culberg: First, very first thought that comes to mind is showy like that showman kind of thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you think about that?
Suzanne Culberg: Well, cause they're usually fake.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, what would aligned showmanship look like or mean for you.
Suzanne Culberg: I don't know, because II think it takes a lot of effort. And I'm kind of lazy or efficient, whichever way you wanna look at it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So it might be that this is just like not it's not it. But I am just gonna like Noodle a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Because it came up so I don't know. Is there a kind of showmanship? Forget right now, if it's easy or hard to do that that's work outable right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is there a kind of showmanship that might want to come through a little bit that your people would really love. that they would resonate with?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That would be helpful for them. I don't know
Suzanne Culberg: nothing sparks immediately, but I can sit with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, sit with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else that just comes to mind around. I can't be that as a facilitator.
Suzanne Culberg: The only other thing like when we were journaling that came up is like
Suzanne Culberg: how hard it is like, you know, because you don't want to make everything about you. But I think, like, especially, you see, so many programs or things marketed. This is so easy. You just do this, and your life is magic, and that's why I love your stuff because you talk about the breakthroughs as opposed to transformation, like if you got one breakthrough like I was thinking about this, and I was going to post in the group. But I was just too tired yesterday.
Suzanne Culberg: I haven't done a lot of this program life changing courses because my mom passed in the first week, and I've been in a grief bubble.
Suzanne Culberg: But I was like, if all I got from yesterday was that piece about power and that understanding of thing about my dad. It was worth the investment like I'm happy. That was enough. whereas I think so many things it's kinda like, if you're not doing it exactly right. And you know these are the 26 steps.
Suzanne Culberg: and it's like
Suzanne Culberg: it doesn't need, you know, people over complicate things to keep selling them. It's just, you know, the thing I'm not really saying like, you don't actually need any of these things. And then I think, then I'm not in congruence because we don't need anything. Then why would you buy? My thing
Suzanne Culberg: seems dumb.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, that might be a little Meta. I'm not sure but but is there a a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): piece? I'm just fishing here, so you know, is, is there a piece in this around? I mean, I think you already do this. So I don't know, but just bringing more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): simplicity in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitation is there and like ease or simplicity piece or a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): none of this matters. And it all really matters piece.
Suzanne Culberg: yeah, like at the simplicity piece, because it's funny. I did it like a
Suzanne Culberg: preview thing in someone else's group the other day.
Suzanne Culberg: and I tend to over prepare and then re prepare on the day. And I was like, I just don't have the capacity for this right now. So I'm gonna leave it to prepare on the day. And then there's so much guilt and shame about that, like this person's hosting. You and you aren't organized. And and I was like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I already know my stuff. But there's some ego. Maybe. Please put it in the chat box around power that feels really egoic to me like you don't need to prepare. It's like spent years preparing trust that you know enough that you can just show up. Ding, ding, ding! I think. Work. Let's see if you can lean more into that, like the part of you that is unprepared, because really you're so prepared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Maybe the part that isn't so responsible, and that this thing let's play with that. It's all just an experiment. Thank you. Everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm glad we were able to look at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so next question for everyone. So I want you to pick. What? Even if you had a couple things that kind of came up from that last question of a part of you that you're hiding.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Pick one like the one just want. You can always go back. Do this process on the others right? No Fomo on the others. But what feels important to look at a little bit more deeply. Today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm reading Kate's share in the chat. and then, Kelly, I'll get to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, let me ask you the let me just ask everybody the question, for sorry I got distracted in the case. So though for the one thing. the question is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when did you decide that this part of you is unacceptable in your leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When did you decide that this thing is unacceptable?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When it comes to your leadership or your facilitation?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give everybody a moment with that, and then, Kelly, I'll get your share in a sec.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate, that's such a beautiful awareness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So where did this? What? Where, and when did you decide
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that this part of you is unacceptable in your leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So mine is a little bit of a clarifying question, and even more so after reading what Kate shared, which is really awesome. I think when you ask the question of Suzanne, what's the thing? I could? Something along the lines of what's the thing? I say? I would never say
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think the thing that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I it's not that I don't say I do some money killing work like this year. I've kind of come out around that, and very lately, but you know I've I've woven it in still grounding everything in enough science that people trust me, but I but the thing that I feel like I would never share is like the more deeply personal stuff. And then some of the parts of my journey which have been the most transformational parts, because they were so, I think hard, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the places where there was actual break down like that led to the big healing thing there have been.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): There's like 3 of those.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And one of them I talk about because it's 20 years in the distance, and the other stuff is just too close. So I so I and I don't. Really. I feel like I need to be grounded enough in that experience, and I have shared it like privately, one on one. But I wouldn't share it in a marketing message, and I kind of feel.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Sometimes I feel a little bit of repulsion when people are like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): out doing really, really exposed stuff online, it feels it's almost like, what are you asking of your viewers to witness. And are you bringing them in just through this wounded place? And it feels like somehow. So I guess I'm yeah. I'm so glad you're bringing this forward. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a a couple of things on this? Yes, right? There's there's a line in terms of what we share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And there might be some things that came up in this inquiry for you that you might want to share at some point. It's important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I'm going for more in this inquiry isn't sharing, but being
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): hmm. Okay.
So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I was talking about the Jewish thing for me. It wasn't the stating of I am Jewish, or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): necessarily this happened to my family, but is allowing myself to be Jewish, whatever that means for me, and in my energy as a facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think one route for you to go in is is looking at being actually more of a shaman
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in your energy. Whether you say I am this or that right? It's not. It's not the the words, but talking about stepping into an energy of. So I do think that could be one valuable that came up first, and I know you and I have spoken about this a little bit before that could be valuable to look a little bit more there? Or is there something around what you were just sharing where it was like? I mean, not share this experience or that experience. But an energy.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yep.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): great is that helpful
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, totally and i'm even thinking just with the shawn piece, because the other part I wrote down is just like the the really annoying over prepared one. I shouldn't say she's annoying and love her. She's done well, but
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but just the it like so much work, and the shaman is like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): girl. We got this. You got nothing to prepare. It's like all here, and all you're doing is like drawing on what's around you. So yeah, I think that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's a right to me. Good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie.
Dr. Josie: thank you for clarifying the showing, the sharing versus the being and bringing something through, because what really came up for me was this underlying?
Dr. Josie: I
Dr. Josie: I had this whirlwind like love of my life, come in for 10 years. And we, I went on, this huge. And I'm gonna share this here. It's really it's hard for me to share, because but I feel like it's safe enough to share it. Here we went on, this whirlwind Bdsm. Dancing with the Kundalini like, just blew everything open, and it was an amazing 10 years, and it opened me up so much energetically. But it's
Dr. Josie: our society shame, sexuality so bad that it was luckily I was with him, and we were in extraordinarily safe
Dr. Josie: containers, like we created our own safe container together. And we would literally, you know, be in public doing these things and create. And people would just come in just a feed on the energy of it. But
Dr. Josie: at 1 point it got out to my family, and literally a younger niece of mine like pulled pictures off the Internet, and like tried to shame me and drive a wedge between me and my mom and stuff which luckily never happened. But it's such a powerful thing yet. That energy is alive in me. It's like once it's turned on, it is turned on. It's like a blowtorch, and it's not gonna go anywhere. He passed away actually from an overdose
Dr. Josie: like 3 years ago. But he's with me spiritually, and it's as my support coming in all the time, so to be able to share that, to be able to bring that forth without having to go into the details of it to bring on the shaming, because it's such a danger zone, you know.
Dr. Josie: Ii so hear you first of all thank you for sharing that with us it it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feels really important, and I can see that it is a piece of your power, you know, and how you affect to repress some of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So it might be about just starting to play with it a little bit more, maybe, before you get to facilitation to find the aligned amount right in any given situation with it. But I love that this is coming through, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): want you to play with this
Dr. Josie: a little bit more. Does that feel? Right? Yeah, it does. It does kind of like a gas stove where you can versus having.
Dr. Josie: Thank you. But thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you. So important.
Dr. Josie: Yeah, definitely, our sexuality is just so important. And I can, I mean, having gone through this, my, this life experience, I can understand that. You know, I've also had. I had a partner who transitioned
Dr. Josie: male to female, and then actually back again. So I've been on this le edge of the fluid sexual, you know, leanings, and it's not easy living in our society and culture, the way it is, it's not right. And then again.
Dr. Josie: some you might end up sharing some of that, like the actual detail, or you might not. That's not what we're looking at here is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's an essential part of your energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I want for all of you is for that energy to come through more when you facilitate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without the back story, with the back story without the backstory that you can decide. But if it is an essential part of your energy, let's have it come through more.
Dr. Josie: Well, thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: Thank you, Dr. Josie. I think you just helped me like put like
Kellita Maloof: 2 things together. Because, Suzanne, that that thing that I'd written about power, I think, is about both of us.
Kellita Maloof: but the specific kind of power it actually, ironically. it's sexual power. even though I work in
Kellita Maloof: conscious burlesque. I and I and I stand by this thing. I'm going to say I
Kellita Maloof: I don't even use the word sexuality, because it's been so maligned and so isolated like. Oh, here's your sexuality. And then here's the whole flower of you.
Kellita Maloof: So I talk instead about vitality and
Kellita Maloof: aliveness, full spectrum aliveness, meaning sexuality that hasn't been co-opted.
Kellita Maloof: but my own sexual energy. The thing that I didn't share about this story yesterday, briefly, is the art.
Kellita Maloof: the sacred power archetype
Kellita Maloof: was a super shape-shifting all genders, all races, all
Kellita Maloof: like that, and the thing they had for me was some kind of stone
Kellita Maloof: that turned into a Gui thing that they put in my pussy.
Kellita Maloof: So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it is a sexual power piece, as you speak right. Isn't this amazing? And Anika shared something similar? Her work is about sexuality, and she's being like that energy. Right? So that's why this is. This. Conversation is so important. Right? We had sex, and we changed genders, both of us
Kellita Maloof: along the way.
Kellita Maloof: right there at the tree. The tree was there. That was the sacred spot. The tree came back, so I'll leave it there. But you know, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, good. I feel energetically light bulbs are going off
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a lot of us. Here. Good, good! Good!
Kellita Maloof: Take.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you, and I'm gonna be talking a bit more about Shadow, and I talk about advanced, but just want to say for those of you that are interested in shadow and working with shadow. Just this little inquiry right here is like light little shadow work right? We're lifting the hood to see what we've been hiding and repressing and pushing away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that actually wants to come forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Here's the next question. what are your students and participants missing out on, because you're keeping this part of this energy from them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are your people missing out on?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Because you're not fully bringing this energy?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And why is this energy actually essential for your people, right energy follows energy. So when we bring it, our people get to have it more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why is this actually just so important and key.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kalita Singh, the modeling that this kind of power can be life-giving and life-saving and safe. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever this energy is that you've been holding back on. Why is this exactly what your people need? Why is this a key energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is important for you to be bringing into the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sorry, Jana, can you repeat that I ran out of journal paper. So whatever this energy is that there's been a barrier right? So really bringing it in. Why do your people really need it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why is it essential? How will it help them for you to be bringing forward this energy into the container?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Amy Singh, being more full of myself, will encourage my participants to be and have the same. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anika Singh, allowing them to see that there is indeed, another, more aligned, healthier way of being in one's sexuality. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin's saying, it's tiring to hold in parts of ourselves. It really is. It takes so much energy to hold it back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Need a saying, because if there's in coherence within my being, it's gonna be mirrored in the group. Yeah, participants can go deeper.
Hmm!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! I'd love to hear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): New awareness is that are coming through. I'd love to hear a couple shares. What are what's what's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): important here? What are you seeing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I was gonna share earlier, and I put my hand down. But I had this dream last night that I was like dancing on the walls like up at like horizontal vertical all the ways, and it was like dancing, and there was so much joy. My sister was even there, and she's like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): really not a joyful person. And I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): II was like, Oh, my gosh! This is what's missing, and my work is the place of joy, and I am working so hard to make sure there's enough science, and I've said this before in this face.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but it to bring enough side, you know, bring all the science. So people feel safe and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and like we all need more joy. And I just sent out like one of my favorite newsletters this week, which is all about finding joy in the heart, and it's all related to my friends in El Salvador who were imprisoned, and all this like really heavy dark stuff, but it's like, actually our work is to find the joy in it. And then, with what Dr. Jose was sharing.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was like, oh, it's not just the joy it's like this other like really vital
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): peace. And then, with what Khalita shared like I had a totally I was like, is, are you? Non? Bi. It was like totally shape shifting, and my secret power person was so potent, and it was. It was almost a place of
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it wasn't. It wasn't really on the binary, but it kind of was on the binary. I mean, it was like shifting the binary. So it was kind of like holding the whole range
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): of the spectrum of all the things like giving space. For, like the darkness and the light, and the heavy, and the joy and the all the things, and I think I've just been so priding myself on.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I remember my aunt saying to me when I was really little, she's like you go all the places where other people are afraid to go like you can hold the the hard and the dark and the heavy, and and I've like prided myself on that. And like, it's.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's amazing, like, it's really good to be able to do that. And it's also amazing to be able to bring joy and fire and sexuality, and like beauty. And all this dynamism into
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what's really dark and heavy, too. So I'm just like everything's like firing up, hey? I'm a new opening here first getting chills right? So much possibility. Umhm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you. And your people need that. They need that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): both.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kate.
Kate Toye: can you hear me? Okay.
Kate Toye: yeah, I'm gonna make it a little louder on my end. I can speak.
Kate Toye: Just thank you so much for this. I didn't know this was.
Kate Toye: I can just feel this inside my body like I just feel this.
Kate Toye: Dial, turning the shifting of
Kate Toye: How I really
Kate Toye: I'm very comfortable speaking with all of the struggles that I've ever had.
Kate Toye: And I serve mamas who are entrepreneurs, who want to create and a life with, you know, intentionally create their lives, and
Kate Toye: I've intentionally create my freaking life like that just like I've so intentionally created my life. My kids are teens. They tell me
Kate Toye: everything. They feel safe. They thank me like they thank me that I've done so much inner work because they see the difference between
Kate Toye: their life and other lives.
Kate Toye: my ken and I've been 27 frickin years like, I don't even feel like I've been on the planet 27 years, and I've been with this person 27 years. And it's because we've it's intentional. It's
it's work.
Kate Toye: it's understanding self. It's
Kate Toye: yeah. All the things we've created businesses. We've right, and what comes to mind is I think I shared this with someone like right after high school. I'd backpack for about 6 years, and I remember
Kate Toye: people saying, Wow, that must be so nice. I wish I could do that.
Kate Toye: and I would say, you can buy a ticket like you can, right. And so I think there's there. I'm gonna get really curious about what that is in and it's not I.
Kate Toye: But it is part like I went from, you know, 18 year old self-loathing wanted to leave the planet to really loving who I am creating an intentional life.
Kate Toye: and if I can do it. Oh, my God, anybody can do it! But I also don't want it to. There's a part of me that's like.
Kate Toye: I don't really want to shine on that, that because I realize there are privileges that I have, that others don't just because of life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. And there is a way to honor and acknowledge that without pushing away, you can feel it. That incredible power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in what you're describing right now. Beautiful, really nicely done. Thank you. Kim.
Kim Davies: I don't know how to name like what I'm hiding. But I had.
Kim Davies: I was working out at preschool these last 2 weeks, and I could see how I shut myself down because I was in the presence of another adult. And it was.
Kim Davies: It's my
Kim Davies: fear of judgment like I would have acted totally different if that other adult wasn't there. And it's the same thing with I'm facilitating. If I have a friend in the class I like. Oh, I don't want any of my friends, my classes, and I said that to a friend of mine she's like we. But we love you. We're not gonna judge you, but my fear of judgment is so strong.
Kim Davies: and and I know where it comes from, you know, growing up. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know how to. Yeah. So this is great, and there's probably a couple of things. But let's let's see if we can start to find the edges of one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what is what is a part of you, or an energy or an aspect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you would bring forward if your friends weren't in the room.
Kim Davies: I think a lot more silliness and playfulness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's that's a great place to start to write. And why would silliness? Oh, my gosh, it's even funny for me to ask thinking about the program that you've shared with me? Why would silliness and playfulness be important for your ideal client and the container?
Kim Davies: Why would silliness of playfulness be important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean it's about you're whole. Why was that was about playfulness?
Kim Davies: I know. I know. We teach what we most need to learn
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly. Freedom of expression. Yeah, freedom of expression. Right to be silly. Be playful, all of that.
Kim Davies: Yeah. And I could do that with people I don't know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I get it. I don't like it. When my, when my friends do my programs, or even some of my friends joke with me. And they're like, I'm gonna come to that free preview call. I saw you promoting on social media.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So I get it. And I wonder if there is Eve friends there or not, if there's even
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): playfulness and silliness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to lean into. That could be more medicine for you and for your people when you're facilitating.
Kim Davies: Yeah. definitely
good.
Kim Davies: Thank you.
Kim Davies: I have a feeling there are other things to. You're going to be in a shadow retreat in the next couple of months. Other pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's time for one more share right now, if anybody else wants to share what's coming through. what you're seeing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's feeling important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone feeling stuck on this heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, I'm kind of feeling stuck on this, because.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: like, I'm not stuck when I'm working with my clients, my incarcerated women.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: because II do bring a lot of my own lived experience into it.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Where I get stuck is
Heather Newcomb. she/her: when
Heather Newcomb. she/her: so part of my work is also the advocacy piece on the policy sides of incarceration and mass incarceration.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and I feel like.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, I can't be as open with my story with, say, legislatures or potential donors. because you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of that judgment piece. Yes, yes, I hear you, and I know that that's tricky with legislatures and donors. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is there, even if the story it's not appropriate to be told, or details of the story.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what more of the energy of it? Or that can you bring in?
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Well, I mean, like one particular thing. So you know I'm a woman in long term recovery.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and like I have a recovery date, and I have a sober date, because relapse is part of recovery. and so like. I think there are aspects of
Heather Newcomb. she/her: that piece of the story like, you know. just because you relapse doesn't mean your recovery starts over because you still have all that knowledge gain, and everything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like my sobriety starts over. But my recovery doesn't start over. Yeah. So beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is there a way that you could be leaning more into that energy and power inside of yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you're speaking with legislation.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I don't even know the words legislatures, whatever it is. Well, I know, like a big top, a big topic is recidivism. And like. you know, just because.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, someone didn't learn their first time doesn't mean they're not gonna learn the next time, or the next time, or the next time, like.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, I often say it took me 12 times at Rehab, but it's not that rehab changed on the twelfth time. It's that I finally changed. That's what I want legislators to see like.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: just because they didn't get it on the first time or the second time of being incarcerated doesn't mean
Heather Newcomb. she/her: we should warehouse them and not give them programming and have a way to feel meaning and purpose like. sometimes I feel like society like
Heather Newcomb. she/her: forgets that incarcerated people are still part of our community.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and that's the piece that I want them to understand that like.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: if I didn't feel that sense of acceptance I wouldn't be who I am today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. so Heather.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There may be parts of the story that II don't know that are appropriate, not appropriate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what I really wanna encourage you to do if this resonates is, as you think about what you're sharing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Start with this energy that you just tapped into right now be in that energy of the the knowing of all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then craft the the words from there. Because it's so powerful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you're sharing. And then when you're in the conversations, be in that energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be in
energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Q.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. Later in the afternoon we're gonna continue playing with what came up. I wanna just like, kind of let it kind of sit with it for a little bit, and all of that in the afternoon. We're also gonna take a look at accountability structures and groups. But before we break for today. I wanna share a little bit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about advanced steps. A lot of you are already in advanced steps. They're gonna be in advance. Some of you here have been asking about it. And so I'm gonna kind of just share a little bit more. Make my formal invitation with a special rate for people in life changing courses. This is also gonna be my opportunity to model for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): An ethical invitation into continuing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll even do like a little bit of teaching on shadow in it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And in terms of the modeling, we'll we'll talk about that again. How to make invitations in our last class here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you don't wanna hear the invite, then we'll be back at 3 for more content. And you know, like regular curricul regular. This is part of the curriculum in a way, again, because of modeling. But if you're just like I don't wanna hear it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel free to go. I love you, no matter what, and come back at 3.
So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of you will feel complete in our work together by the time we're done at the end of this month. I can't believe we're gonna be done. At the end of the month
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it went by fast. It went by slow. But some of you are already know you're gonna continue working with me, and some of you are gonna want to continue working
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with me to go deeper to go deeper into everything that we're learning. Some of you are gonna want to learn how to bring your one on one work and your group work to even deeper places and advanced depth is a way to do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, in a nutshell advanced is about doing some of the deepest personal and shadow work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you can do to do it for yourself first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then learn how to support your clients, your one on ones, and your groups in it as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the shadow work that we do in advance, and the dozen or so specific, step by step, techniques that you learn in advance all of that is really at the heart of some of the biggest and most sacred and most impactful transformation I've experienced
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in my own life. It is. It is the heart of the heart of my own inner work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we've definitely over the last 2 days lightly dipped our toes into some easier shadow pieces here. In advance. It gets harder in the best of ways, right for those of us that are transformation nerds like me. It's it gets harder, but so much more satisfying. It really is work that you don't forget
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your your life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's work that informs every curricula that you create, every session that you have with a client, whether you're directly working with shadow or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because shadow is often a missing ingredient for people to be able to undergo some of that deeper change.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Shadow is a term that gets thrown around a lot in the coaching and transformational industries. But very few practitioners actually understand it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I formally started working with shadow over 20 years ago, and at that time I had already done a lot a lot of self development, a lot of therapy, and I was already very self aware. But even with all of that work under my belt, the shadow work it basically just it brought it all, all the other work together. It blew it all out of the water, at its core.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm coming at this from a Jungian lens at its core. The real shadow work is about coming face to face with the parts of yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you've deemed unacceptable and bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and wrong, and weak, or unsavory, or shameful, or harmful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these are the parts that also, coincidentally, but not really consistently, get in the way of what you want.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): though you usually don't even recognize them as parts of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and working with shadow is about courageously coming face to face with all of it, right with the parts that were taught usually from a young age.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to deny, to repress, to hate, on, to hide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to try to cut out of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But of course we can never truly get rid of who we are. We're not supposed to right. We shouldn't try to get rid of our most authentic or primal impulses, no matter how unacceptable they seem.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or our innermost desires, no matter how ugly society has told us that they are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because we need all of ourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we need to be able to consciously leverage all of the parts of ourselves. or else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they may become harmful either to others or to us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we try to get rid of parts of ourselves or certain impulses when we stuff them into the shadow realm. we end up being unconsciously run
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by those things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we end up self-sabotaging. We end up, not doing the things that we want to be doing. We end up hiding.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes we end up inadvertently hurting others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We get triggered by others. And.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as Robin was saying in the chat before we end up tying so much of our life, force, energy into the hiding and the repressing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the pretending and the feeling ashamed of who we are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So just some examples of the the parts and the impulses that I'm talking about, that we tend to put into shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anger, grief, aggression, wanting to be bigger than others, power which we've started to look at, competitiveness wanting to be the best
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): selfishness. The impulse to want to have things focused on us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sexuality has come up a lot today. Laziness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): extreme pleasure. extreme judgment. even the impulse to destroy is something that we don't want to put into shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some people put their neuro divergence into shadow, right their Jewishness into shadow, their love of junk food into shadow right? And then we restrict ourselves from everything. Right? Then this is just naming a few.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I share with you a personal example. On this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I grew up in a household and in a community where the only type of acceptable daughter was to be a good Jewish and immigrant daughter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): devoted. selfless. always staying close to my parents, showing up doing, you know, like almost
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): living my life because of all the sacrifices they've made, living my life
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I was really good at being a good daughter also, because some of you might know when I was 9. On top of all of that, my mother was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and she's been very sick and has gotten more and more sick my entire life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so in my household and in my culture
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): selfish.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was one of the dirtiest
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): words or concepts you could consider
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wanting to have your own life. or knowing what your own needs even, were
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let alone taking action on those needs. I think that's that was a verboten right? Putting myself first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was not an option.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so I stuffed all of my selfishness away
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I stuffed away all of the parts of me that actually cared more about myself than my mother, right to even say that out loud here. I have parts of me that care more about myself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than her.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I put all of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into shadow. I would not allow myself to be any of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so what happened?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, not only did I tie up a lot of my energy, calling my mother multiple times a day, you know, going
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): back to visit and help, you know. All the time it held me back. It held back, John. And yeah, elle wasn't born yet then, but it held back. Penina, my older daughter. It was all of all of my attentions going to my mother.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I got sick myself from it. I got Bell's palsy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I constantly, even though I was there so much, I constantly felt guilty for not being there enough. and not good enough, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): while I felt guilty.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also resented my parents so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I resented myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): need to not be selfish. It it spilled over into my business. I was under charging right, because it's very selfish to charge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I gave away so much of my time in ways that weren't a good exchange for me, cause it's selfish to have boundaries, all the things
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): until I did the shadow work until I was willing to look the selfishness straight in the face.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and not the nice, pretty selfishness right, and but to look
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all like even the ugly selfishness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to look at the part of me that was willing to fight for me. no matter how ugly. My parents. Society told me that it was, no matter how bad this impulse was right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then the the work was working to reclaim that for myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll share with you that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's happened for me because of it is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one. I know I am such a good daughter now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but also I know that I am a bad daughter, and I love that part of me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It is a liberated part of me where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): big parts of my life force, energy come from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right along those same lines. I can own that I'm a very generous practitioner. but I can also own that I have parts of me that care more about me than my clients sometimes, and that is okay. It used to not be okay for me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great. I can appreciate those parts rather than hate on myself and use those parts for everybody's good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not just that I believe it. Now I embody it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this work is what allowed me ultimately to move from New Jersey and New York, where my parents were to North Carolina.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll tell you. It hasn't been easy. My parents still haven't forgiven me. 1314 years later, like I am the bad child.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know they don't see all the ways that I show up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there are times that I'm not okay with it to be honest, right? But for the most part it is liberating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): forms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's not easy work. It's not pretty work, it's not surface work it can be confronting. It's about being with the parts of yourself that you've denied for so long that you think are the worst parts of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're really some of the best parts of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and often we're not even at first conscious that we even have this like for the longest time I didn't even I couldn't even recognize that I had selfishness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of myself. It was too dangerous to even admit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other benefit of all of this is that there's less shame right? There's more self love and less shame as we do this work, shadow by shadow, by shadow, by shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): doing the work on shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can tell. So you so many stories on this. II won't for the sake of time, but it it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has just freed me up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in so many ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It has all allowed me to leverage all of who I am
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so advanced. Depth is a set of incredible techniques
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you can use with your clients and your groups for breakthrough for transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's almost like the icing on the top. The the biggest part of advance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is the work that we do for ourselves in it. and so many of my graduates tell me that there's a before and after right, and it's by the way, no pedestals, no perfection either. Afterwards. It's not that right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but that there's a before and after. And the after is about being so much more awake, so much more self, compassionate, so much more resourced and better able to make decisions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so how do we do all of this? So we kind of work, step by step. in advance up to the big, the big, everything is about shadow, but we work up to the big shadow retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The heart of the program are 5 intensive virtual retreats, and then one in person retreat. In Charlotte we meet about every other month.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's a very spacious format.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's kind of like there's spaciousness. But then, when we're in our intensive, it's a tight container. It is a small group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's intimate. Everybody gets seen and heard. everybody gets direct attention.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's nowhere to really hide. So a lot is required of you in it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll just briefly share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hold up. Let me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share my screen. I'll just briefly share about the retreats
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the intensives.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): words can't even fully describe the intensives. But because we have to use words.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we start off with the befriend. Your fear technique, which we look at in sacred depths. Also, this is kind of a we get into even more of the nuances of it. We spend 2 days to to learn a couple of somatic techniques centered around the main befriend your fear technique, on how to work with yourself and your clients and your groups when it comes to fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how to make friends with fear, how to get regulated with fear and move forward with it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the befriend, your fear technique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We move on to the choose your own shadow journey transformation technique. That's the work I was doing with Anika this morning, and I do not recommend anyone do that technique until they learn it, even if you're super advanced practitioner. It looked really simple. There was a lot that went into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But this is that technique is like the memory, reconsolidation, technique, the queen of memory reconsolidation techniques. It is a way to go back to a memory and support
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): clients to find something that an impulse that they've put into shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From there we look at dream work and archetypal symbols. We do deep Jungian soul work learning how to work the dreams and the symbols.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a great tool for one on one work. It's also just a great tool for group work in some of the ways that we I we did this morning. We go really deep into all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From there we have an intensive that's called harnessing the gold of the devil archetype and we go into our compulsions and our illusions, and and we use that archetype of the devil, and and that shadow of compulsion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there we've got our big shadow retreat. Where we get to the heart, we learn a bunch of different shadow techniques.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we top it off with our last online intensive. It's called the wise Warrior Technique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where you look at activating boundaries and selfishness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some things to know about all of this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we go deep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But also we have so much fun. We laugh a lot. There's so much love. you can go deep without going too heavy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Second thing is, the community is incredible. I always say I attract the best people, it is true, and then the container brings out the best of us. You get to have a space to do your deep inner work, which so much of us, so many of us who've already done so much personal work. It's hard to find the spaces right to that are gonna meet us there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You get more of me which could be a plus because it's a small container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we really get to know each other pretty well
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in advanced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You'll get to integrate even more of what we've learned in life changing courses, and that's for a number of reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. You'll be observing my facilitation throughout, and will be pulling on facilitation. So you'll just learn more facilitation that way. You'll get more ideas for exercises, etc. I get to model in person facilitation and in person, ritual.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You'll learn even more about activating the 4 levels of learning and processing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing to know is that and I'm gonna brag for a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We get to be in person for 3 days, and if you haven't yet been with me in person, it's an experience, it it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it really is. and I know that it's hard to leave your house and get on a plane and leave the clients and leave. You know the dish. All the things I can. Pinky promise it is worth it times a hundred.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It really is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you get all of that. But you actually get more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So for some people, they just want to show up for the intensives, and and that's that. But if you want more support, you get it in the program. You get access to 2 Q&A calls a month with people that are also in sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And in my embody program. So you can twice a month. You can ask me any questions on your curriculum, on your business, on your client, work on your groups. anything that you need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you receive that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): continued, you know communication on your curriculum. If you want me to look at it for the year.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then you get some other just great bonuses home study programs, you know. I'll I'll give you all the brochure. Oh, you get the navigating, the resistance archetype live program that I'm gonna be doing also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the summer.
So okay, I could go on and on and then other just other bonuses that will come up through the year. So, for example, I'm gonna do a pop up 3 session course in March
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on ritual.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're in advanced, you get access to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the full training is, I think, priceless.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the the the full investment. The regular investment is 8,700. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you that are here in life, changing courses. if you decide, you want to step in by January 20 fifth I'm honored to make it available for $1,500 off, so it would be $7,100 if you paid in full.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or $477 deposit. and then 14 payments of 4, 77.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That wouldn't start the payments. If you want to pay out more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or of your life changing courses, payments, and then not start until April. We can do that. We can also figure out a different payment plan. If that works better for you.
I'll put
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the the and this brochure is just for you, just pricing for you. I put it in the chat. A couple other things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Advanced depth versus sacred depth, so advanced is, if you are completely new to coaching or to if you've never been trained in coaching skills or transformational skills advanced may not be for you, but get in touch with talk about sacred depths, which is kind of more foundational
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you are seasoned. If you have, or have been trained.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either might be right for you. Some people do safer depths first. Some people do advanced depth. First
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): think the only other thing that I wanna say is, as always. when I invite people into any training. This isn't about, not you're not good enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You are already amazing. And also we've already learned so much here. This is about I want more. This is about I feel called to more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is about, I really desire this experience. This is about, I really want to walk this path and introduce it to my clients. You are already whole and complete and amazing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll hang on during break if anybody wants to ask me about it. If you wanna set up to have a conversation with Caitlin or in ball, I highly recommend that as well. If you wanna learn more or see if it's for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love you, no matter what. But I did want to make this invitation, because I do have some spots available, and it might just be right for somebody here, and also again prep for when we look at making invitations to our groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So with that little break I'll hang on if anybody has any questions or needs anything from me in general. Let's come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 50 Eastern.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we'll go like yesterday. We'll go till 4 30 for our formal curriculum, and then I'll hang on for people that want extra extra.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll see you at 2 50, and I'm here if you have any queues.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): welcome back. Welcome back. I hope you had a good break. I know it wasn't a full hour, but hopefully you had enough space to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just kind of come back to yourself. Get away from the computer. Take good care of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just create space for a few minutes to right. And Robin saying, to sleep, too, yeah, sometimes that's the best way to process and just to rest and rejuvenate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time just for any. We're gonna keep on going with what we started in the morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I just love to hear anything more that's coming through anything more that you're seeing around this. What we've been looking at in terms of leadership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and bringing all of you, and and some of the the things that we've kept hidden that are ready to come forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's resonating? What are you, seeing what new pieces have come through the last hour?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any shares?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Deva
Deva Munay: sorry. My partner's hammering in the next room, but I think just
Deva Munay: really the authenticity of coming as you are. And I just had said I just had an hour and a half class that I just shared. And
Deva Munay: one of
Deva Munay: the participants, were a small group of just like 10 people.
Deva Munay: Who's been with us is terminal with cancer, and she's shown up for every class, and allowing the class to shift into
Deva Munay: be with her as part of this journey, and how
Deva Munay: that was not really planned into the curriculum. But how? It's become a really important part of
Deva Munay: just being with what is. And today, like II light a candle for the group with everyone, and I was like, I can't find my candle that's been like this continuum. And then spirit was like, well, because you need to. You need one to honor the old and one to honor the new. So just like how like when we kind of surrender, I was like, Okay, whatever. No myth of perfection. I don't have the candle. And then, the moment I was like, I have a new candle. Then I found the old one, because it's like
Deva Munay: this weaving of world's end.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's so much I love about the share. It's it's about letting go of the myth of perfection, and it's about allowing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what wants to come forward. Come forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's allowing for the magic that just comes through when we create these containers. Right? If we're willing to see it and connect the dots.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Really nice. Sounds like it was so beautiful.
Deva Munay: Yeah. And a lot of just like what you shared this morning, so much of just being being authentic. And you said, Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): A few things one just like really feeling the ripple within myself of this place of letting my shamanic self come forward more and within her.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): trusting that she knows, and she doesn't have to have 1,500 pages of notes
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to be prepared.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I was also remembering back, like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): probably 30 years ago, being at this personal development workshop and crawling around like some primal animal on the floor. And this woman who turned out to be very witchy, but I didn't know it at the time, was like, Why are you working in program administration like you gotta be teaching women to get in their bodies. And then, you know, 10 years ago, I'm like, you know, she said, that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this is really what I'm working with. But even still it's been.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I do a lot about getting people in their bodies. And this program is befriend your body. But it's actually like, let's actually get into our bodies. And then
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then, as soon as we stopped, I checked email. And I got that, I'll drop it. Did you see it? I said. it's it's like amazing email from this former client who was responding to the email that I sent out on Thursday. And it was basically the messaging of the last of the last section, which is all about.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, giving like giving permission, and just that that ripple, and how much it meant to receive
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the truth, telling email that I shared, which was pretty vulnerable, and she like names it, and then says, I'm grateful for your vulnerability in the example it sets for myself to embrace. I'm grateful for the example of putting out things out there with your whole heart, and I'm grateful for the example of asking for a reply, which I did pretty explicitly at the end, and sharing the importance of that to you. Thank you. And she anyway, it was just
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it was really profound to receive that raise. We've done this other piece around how that mirrors out into our spaces. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): such magic always happens. It's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): amazing emails coming at the right time, etc. So good, so good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for people that are coming in now. Welcome, welcome, Josie and Jennifer and Robin Amy, I think you're here and came back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin! Yes, we are. We're gonna keep on going a little bit more. With where we started.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hey, Nina? Yeah, I saw you there from the beginning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so let's I do. Wanna keep on going. We're not gonna do like full shadow all all the things we could spend, you know, a long time on that. But now that we have these awarenesses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna go a little further with it, we're gonna we're gonna do a little bit of work that we're gonna bring in kind of some other pieces in and before I have you you'll go off in groups to do this work. I wanna do a little demo of what you're gonna do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I need a volunteer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalie. Great, thank you.
Margalit: I feel great. I feel powerful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yay, good, good. Thank you so much for volunteering it. It is powerful and courageous to to volunteer. What is the part of you that you are really looking to bring more into your facilitation and your leadership based on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the work we've been doing today.
Margalit: Speaking up more as a teacher.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk tell us a little bit more. What that means to you.
Margalit: that i'm, so immersed in
Margalit: allowing, my participants, and my one on one
Margalit: to gain access to their wisdom.
Margalit: I, in my language, I forget that I also have some wisdom that I could share, and I do. I just need to elevate it because I think they want it. Cause when I do share it, they're like, Oh, wow! Yes, I love this. This feels really, really important, and it feels related. It feels like one piece related to yesterday, probably for you to in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): power and and not power under right? All all of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So what we're gonna do is fun. Sometimes shadow work can be like deeper and more serious. But we're not gonna do that today. It's it's we're gonna go a little more like silly and fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what I'm gonna ask you to do in a moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vergoli is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to move. I want you to. I'm gonna ask you to move into the part of the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where your wise, elevated teacher would be, or if you want to stay kind of in the camera, you maybe just like, get into the position. We're gonna have fun with this. I mean, I want you to move into the energy of that one right cause. It's not just about what they say. It's how they're being. And I want you to exaggerate it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): almost like this part of you was on steroids right? Like a a complete exaggeration. Farcical of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this wise, elevated wisdom. Teacher.
Margalit: alright! Have a standing desk. So let's see if I can do that. So I would definitely be standing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, for sure. Take a moment if it helps to close your eyes, really start to move into the energy of this on steroids. Wise teacher, move into how you would hold your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Really get there?
Margalit: Should I keep my eyes closed. You don't have to. Okay.
Margalit: I don't mind. Okay, okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, you're there. So I'm gonna talk to you. Not as Marga Lee. I'm gonna talk to you as this wise, elevated teacher.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): huh! And have fun with this speed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Talk to us for 2 min, Ish. I'm not going to interrupt you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the voice of this elevated, wise teacher, who is so proud of herself, and elevated and wise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about why you are so amazing and so perfect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the people who come to your groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why this wise, elevated teacher part is so amazing and so part and so perfect.
Margalit: You know I've been through all this the entrepreneurial. I started a business. I grew a business. I sold the business. I've gone through a lot of personal and professional transformations. I understand at some level what you're going through.
Margalit: And it's fantastic.
Margalit: fantastic.
Margalit: And what I learned through my personal professional life is, it's all about what's up here.
Margalit: I'm a neuroscience. Nerd. I have a snow globe brain. We always have options. And how we think
Margalit: it's not about what we do. It's about who we are. We always have choice. I've done it.
Margalit: and II feel like I'm losing it. And we can find with this. It's all you know. If you have an issue. It's all up here, and that's good news.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So congratulations. Yes, beautiful. Okay, good. How does it feel in your body right now? Good, weird. I mean, I want better language, obviously. But language doesn't matter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): did you? I noticed. But you tell me, cause this might not be true. This new kind of energy.
Margalit: Yeah. And life, force
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): came through you, could you feel some of that?
Margalit: Yeah, it. It's here. It's here. I just yeah, it's here absolutely.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. And you're, you know, in the chat you're getting. Preach morgally through power. I could feel your passion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, please. Any other reflections. What else did you notice? Or what did it awaken for you? As Margoli was standing in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at, he's saying it enthused me. It got me interested. There was a lightness empowered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Everything is doable. Right? So there's it. It is. It was evocative, right? It evoked something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why do your people especially need this energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not that you need to be in that all the time braved. But why do they need you to bring that more?
Margalit: Because, speaking from experience, when you're building your own business. You get so into the weeds. I forget, you know. You forget what's important.
Margalit: And so I provide a space. I'm not like that accountability coach. You have to do this. Yeah. In fact, if you want that, I'm not your person right? That's the easy part of
Margalit: coaching which I don't, that there's no magic in that. So they want a place where they can play with possibility. That's what I do like. You say, test experiment.
Margalit: That's what I do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How would it feel to bring some more of this energy to when you're holding space?
Margalit: I love it. Yup.
Margalit: but you know, here is like but I know that's a habit. And just, you know, keep on working it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, this is what I would like for all of you to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great. So I'm gonna I'm let me get us into. Thank you. And also thank you for being courageous.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me just get us set up here in the breakout rooms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. So this is an opportunity for you to just play right. We're playing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): find leaning into this energy a little bit more right that we've kind of left behind that we've kind of hidden. It's it's an opportunity just to start playing with it in a more intentional way in a proud way. So the instructions are just when it's your turn.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The instructions are to almost make it a caricature, right like, if if for you, it's the powerful one. Be proud of all the power if it's for use. The sexual one be like a caricature. But it's not that you're necessarily gonna show up as that total caricature in your groups, but, like, see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of go to the extreme and be proud of it, and have fun with it, and and just talk for a couple of minutes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why, you're so great, and why your people need you, and what you have to say. And yes, Kathy, so first share with your group what energy you're stepping into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So each person will have about 5 min total.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're mostly groups of 2, Margalite. I put you in a group of 3, since you already got to do it, and I'll I'll hold time for you. And I'll you know. So take about 5 min you'll have, you know, also within that just feedback, and you know all that, and we'll just play and see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any questions before we go off.
No
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright enjoy enjoy.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Joanna. I switched my device.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me get you. Let's see. Do you wanna do it with me so that way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, good. I am gonna like, have one eye on the clock. And I, you know, I'll just like broadcast to people when it's time to change. Give me one sec. Let me just make sure everybody gets to their rooms, if not, everybody is going to their room, and then I'll put you in to a room. Anita, Nina in ball, are you going off to rooms? And, Kim.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're not okay. Looks like Invol and Kim were in the same room. So that works out. Joe is by herself. So I'm going to put you with Joe Jen. So it's room 8
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Welcome back everyone. I hope that was fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear one or 2 shares of what that was like, what you're seeing, what you're learning. what's feeling important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What came through
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's so good to hear your voice. Robin. Robin, be.
Robyn Bragg: we're talking about
Robyn Bragg: like, what do I need to bring out visibility? And like that, I can take up space. So.
Robyn Bragg: anyway.
Robyn Bragg: Yeah, I just want to say that it was. It was really fun, and it was interesting that it was fun, cause I went into it like scared and resistant. And then I was like having fun with it. And I'm like, that's so cool.
Robyn Bragg: so I guess it's like this continuous learning that like stepping up and doing the thing like every time you say breakout room, I'm like Brad
Robyn Bragg: on, and I do it, and then I'm always happy to have done it, and I love everybody in this group that I've been paired up with. So
Robyn Bragg: thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad, and I feel like, I can just feel that that energy still coming from you. Robin. Right? Imagine if some of that was pumped more into your groups into your business. Right.
Robyn Bragg: Yeah, yep.
Robyn Bragg: actually doing it. That's what I said. I'm like, I have all these ideas. And then I'm like, Oh, I don't know who am I to do that. and I don't do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, you're not the only one, but so you can use this energy right? This life force
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for that beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. Who else? I feel like there's another share, at least out there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kelly, M.
Kelly Melear-Hough: Yeah, that was fun. I was the same. I was like. Breakout room. No, thank you. But
but I went with it, and my energy that I want to bring out is
Kelly Melear-Hough: my hidden inter inner entertainer
Kelly Melear-Hough: under wraps for many, many years. There's very few people who've actually seen that part side of me
on a regular basis. But it's actually really fun
Kelly Melear-Hough: to be in that energy. And I think it's engaging right. And like people, people respond positively to it. It makes it. It makes things more fun
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): completely, and I'm thinking about your curriculum, and I can totally see how some of that energy could be so helpful in there, right. And the idea, just for all of us, just in case I wasn't clear, is it's not. We're bringing that. Whatever energy you played with, we're not bringing it 100% of the time in all moments, right? But it's like, what are the moments? Where more of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can come through, where it will really make an impact, where it it will really support the container and our people to to have that come through. So I love that you have that fun entertainer. Part of you is like
Kelly Melear-Hough: you know, I'm doing some shamanic work. So part of it, too, is sort of like embodying that spiritual person more, and and letting her be seen more.
Kelly Melear-Hough: and I think that being that person more sort of helps with the ritual and the ceremony
Kelly Melear-Hough: right completely, completely, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): back to energy follows energy. So this is this is really important. no matter what energy anybody is bringing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you are asking your participants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to do any kind of exercise, or any kind of ritual, or any kind of journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you aren't going there energetically yourself to to demonstrate, it is going to be very hard
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for anyone else in the container to to be in that energy, to go through whatever the energy is required for that exercise, for that journey, for that ritual. I've seen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, some people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): doing like leading a ritual, but they're not fully there. They're not fully present. They're feeling a little about whatever they're doing or not fully in in the grief. If they're leading a grief ritual or not fully in the right, and and energy follows energy. It's so much harder then, for the for people to go there with you.
Good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else that wants to be shared, either as the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): evoker of the energy or as the witnesser of the energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we're gonna start to move our focus
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): onto looking at something a little bit different. So until before we do any other thoughts or questions on this work that we've
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): been looking at this morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so one last piece, then what is something that you feel inspired to do to practice this energy that you're starting to play with or play with more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne?
Suzanne Culberg: I do have a question. But the the inspired. So my 365 day podcast challenge which I was telling Robin about in the breakout room. First, I was going to 100 days. That was awesome then, when I now that I made it 365, I made the goal too big a little bit about day 1 80. So note to self, keep the goal small, so I can feel a more of a sense of achievement.
Suzanne Culberg: But to this energy, because I do my show daily
Suzanne Culberg: to stepping into that for a moment before I hit record, because
Suzanne Culberg: that
Suzanne Culberg: I don't need to be prepared. Whatever I say is going to be awesome kind of thing for the people who I who connect with it, it will be.
Suzanne Culberg: But that's where it comes into my question. Because for some people it's not.
Suzanne Culberg: And that's okay. So I've got an example. I'll try and keep the backstory short if I don't know somebody. I wanted to fill application in before they come on my show. Make sure that we're fit. Had this lady apply.
Suzanne Culberg: She was a stylist, so I was a little bit curious, because.
Suzanne Culberg: have you met me? But she feel before me. Okay. When we got on the call it was clear to me that her Va or somebody had obviously filled it on her behalf. So what I've taken from this is, I've gone. And now put, are you filling this in on behalf of someone? Because, anyway.
Suzanne Culberg: long story short. in the episode which I made the decision in my power not to publish. It's the first time ever.
Suzanne Culberg: but I could see her point of view for her clients, but she kept trying to turn it on to me like she said, things like, you know, people aren't confident in their wardrobe. And I was like, well, yeah, get that. And she's like, so how much you wardrobe do you wear? And I'm like 100%.
Suzanne Culberg: She's like, so 100% of your wardrobe. And the way she said, it is like
Suzanne Culberg: funky T. Shirts and jeans, and I'm like, yes, and she's like. And what if you ask to speak on stage, and I was like, if I can't turn up like me, I'm not interested. So where the mismatch was was. I wasn't trying to poo poo her message that kind of came across that way. But
Suzanne Culberg: if she'd said, there are people who feel like this because I used to, I weighed twice what I did now. I thought if I was just make up and skinnier and prettier, and then I realized, you know, but we could have had a whole different conversation, but because she kind of or in my interpretation, was trying to make me into her ideal client, which I'm not, and I stood up for myself. It looked like I was trying to say she was full of shit. So that's why I didn't publish it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first of all, yay, for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): making a hard decision that feels really aligned.
Suzanne Culberg: What's the question? So the question is, there are times like the people who I find
Suzanne Culberg: don't agree with me are a lot more vocal than the people who do so often. You know the people who like in my own container people who work with me it's a whole different experience. But for me the struggle is to be public facing cause. People like.
Suzanne Culberg: you know. I've listened to you. If you didn't swear, or you know, take more care with your parents, or whatever I know that they're not my people, but them trying. And sometimes it's so convincing, and you can be like, oh, maybe if I did get professional like when you're in that like, let's say you said this morning when I'm in my power, run this. But when I'm having a moment. So when I'm having the moments, and I'm like, Oh, maybe I should be more profession like, so it's holding that line. I can't even say the word. So that shows have professional. I'm not. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad you're bringing this up, cause it. It's true wh. When we're being all of ourselves, and especially the parts that have been deemed unacceptable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not everybody is going to want to be a part of that.
Suzanne Culberg: I guess that's how to disagree with them like nicely like, I appreciate that but like, get out of my lounge room like, yeah, if you I wouldn't let them in my house, telling me how to decorate. So why do I let them in my space? And I don't want to be one of these really overly curated blocking and deleting like I'm open to it. But sometimes they get all pushy, like the power over trying to tell me how to be, and I'm like I'm not here for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this might go against all the work you've done today. So I'm like hesitant to say it. I'm just gonna toss it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cause, you know there are times to not be over. We don't ever want to be over prepared, but there are times to be more prepared, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it might be that it's important sometimes, if you have an intuitive hit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to have a 5 min get to know you. Conversation with possible guest. Is that, too. So thank you, Joanna. It's like he's the application. And then we'll chat first. And basically, when people are replying
Suzanne Culberg: like, I'm worried that my response is too brush. But then, again, if it is, we weren't gonna be fit anyway. Because basically, I say, look, we have 5 min. If I lucky we hit record. If I don't, I'll wish you well, that's slightly more polite than that. But I imagine some people will read that and go like so rude. But that's cool. They're not my people exactly right. So if it works 5 min before it sounds like this was just a one time thing. Keep on doing that if it feels better to do it a few days before they actually schedule the
Suzanne Culberg: no, I just like to get the other way, cause the unprepared one doesn't want to have to make another time to come back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm with you. Why have another time? Right? So my senses keep on doing what you're doing. It's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm sure you are kind. You were kind when you let this person know that you weren't gonna publish it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's the best thing you can do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. We can't micromanage other people's experience. Those are. Talk more about that tomorrow in terms of facilitation, too. But yeah, we we can't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. So
Suzanne Culberg: it doesn't. It sounds like you're doing exactly what you need to be doing. Thank you. Cause like in a me is really quite sassy like whenever someone comment, what you if you didn't swear and I'm like we were watching me then, would you like? Part of me is like, Oh, my God, we were young! They would never say that. But that's so true, like I'm so tired of people telling me how to be
Suzanne Culberg: in my own space like if I went to their wall. And this is what you said about foul language this morning. If I go to someone else's space, or if I go on someone else's? Podcast. Can I swear here before we hit record? And if I don't know, I keep it clean, but on my own space, don't tell me how to be, because don't come in here. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly 100%, you sound like, you know exactly what you're doing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So we're gonna switch gears. Oh, before we switch gears.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a request which is. tomorrow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we are going. We're gonna be doing a bunch of looking at facilitation from a number of in different ways tomorrow, and be looking at a little bit more resistance. We're gonna be looking at facilitating shares
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and tomorrow is a great time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to look at like your worst case scenario fears with facilitation. So you know I'll address things. I I'll I already have, you know, worked into what we're gonna look at like the person who never stops
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talking right? Or the the teacher in the group who is, you know, trying to one up. You I have. I have some of that already worked in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but of course we can't. There's so many different scenarios we can't cover all of them. So if you have oh, my gosh! This has been your biggest fear, and maybe this is why you haven't been facilitating, or you've been holding yourself back from doing XY, and Z, because you think this might happen in the group, or with a person in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do I do? If my power gets knocked out 10 min before you know me as facilitator that has happened to me right or whatever it is. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tomorrow like, collect tonight, any of those? Oh, my gosh, I just what is this is a doozy situation, and I want to talk it through. And we'll look at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I will just say, in advance of that, while I, as a facilitator, may not have experienced yet all of the juicy situations. I can tell you what experienced almost all of them, and I am here to live the tale, and you will get through it as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so let's talk about accountability. We're going to spend about the next hour talking about accountability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): structures in group programs, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm making an assumption that we would all like for our participants in our groups to take the actions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they need to take in order to create the results that they want to have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And before we get to what accountability structures look like as always, it's important to look at energetics around accountability first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And here's the most important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thing that I want to offer to you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): around the energetics of accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We. no matter how magical we are. cannot make
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): another human being be accountable to anything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Period. end of story.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We just can't right. That is the work of the gods.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we are all a human, for as amazing as we are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, I'll get to that in a moment. But just to take it a step further.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whenever we, as practitioners, inadvertently or on purpose, step into the belief or the energy of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I must hold this person accountable. I must hold the people in the group accountable. It is on me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this accountability thing. Oftentimes the exact opposite
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can happen. The rebel shows up as an example, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or when we get into this place of I must hold another. You know my participants accountable. Sometimes we can even trigger trauma.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because so much about holding others accountable is related to the powerpieces that we were talking about yesterday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because for so many people in our younger years or adult years, a parent, a teacher, a boss.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Whoever exerted power over by trying to make us do something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what I'm saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we want to hold structures of accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we don't want to make anybody, and we can't make anybody accountable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And again, just like with everything else our participants are. Gonna smile it from a mile, smell it from a mile away. If we do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we could go deep into the psychology of all of this. We won't for today. But you know wh. What I wanna kind of offer just a little bit more is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thinking that we can hold people accountable. Even when we have the best of intentions. can come from a number of different misaligned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): motivations
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could be. Our need to control
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could be our ideas of ourselves as saviors, even though that might not be at the surface right. But if you are someone who in your family like me, who saved everyone who was always kind of able right to finagle so that things everybody was gonna be okay. You might think you can hold others accountable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes we think we can hold others accountable because we really need to look good. If our clients achieve, then we feel like we look good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, by the way, a lot of our clients are gonna have wounding around that back to their parents.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Their parents made them study or made them do this, or made them practice piano, not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for necessarily just for the child, but for the parent to look good or feel like they were a good parent, or that their kids were achieving, or a prodigy or right, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes when we try to hold people accountable, it's because we
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's not an equal playing field in terms of. We're not trusting that our client can do it on their own.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me pause on that. I know those are some big ideas. I'd love to hear what is sparking for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important in this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Susan saying all of things out. Yeah, you know. Sorry, not sorry.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear a voice or 2 on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): data
Deva Munay: I love hearing
Deva Munay: are just reflecting on how much of parents wanting their kid to look good for themselves, and that accountability of really wanting.
Deva Munay: you know. And I think it's a fine line, because I know my mom really wanted me to do piano, and and then I did it. And now I'm like, Oh, I really wish I would have stuck with it longer.
Deva Munay: so I think it's a dance of like parents
Deva Munay: wanting the best for their child, and simultaneously, because it's the mini version of themselves, and so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): completely and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oftentimes with coaching, it's the same as with parenting. But what we're gonna take a look at today and it applies to for facilitation. But it applies to parenting is, how can we hold the guardrails
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without the energy of I'm holding you accountable?
Deva Munay: Yeah. And having, like fierce compassion, like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly exactly, and and with parenting as well as with facilitation. How can we always remember? It's not about me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's just not about me. My clients
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not being accountable or moving forward. The ways they want are not about me and my clients. Successes are not really about me, either
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: yeah, I just wanted to share, because.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I really had a light bulb come off because
Heather Newcomb. she/her: In the facility that we work, I work. The superintendent wants to integrate more restorative practices, which. you know, starts from the root of accountability. And so
Heather Newcomb. she/her: in a way, the way she's kind of forcing these restorative practices.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Is forcing people to take accountability. But
Heather Newcomb. she/her: now I'm understanding why it's not exactly working. And so I just, I'm so glad. Exactly. Anytime we try to enforce.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's not how it's gonna work we can inspire. We can hold guardrails. We can set up structures, but it enforcing
Heather Newcomb. she/her: good I'm glad I'm gonna encourage her to come at it from a different approach. For sure
it good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? I feel like? There's more on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that wants to be discussed? Don't be shy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Hmm!
Jennifer Rose Gens: I have another mentor that told me years ago that
Jennifer Rose Gens: we're not responsible for other people's moods
Jennifer Rose Gens: or energy. We're responsible for our moods and our energy. And that's something that really stuck with me, and I often offer offer that and
Jennifer Rose Gens: definitely easier said than done, especially when talking about
Jennifer Rose Gens: accountability and something that I've been really processing is the power of
like
Jennifer Rose Gens: beautiful white men. And
Jennifer Rose Gens: this idea that they can just do whatever they want because they're beautiful. And they have that privilege of being white and
Jennifer Rose Gens: mail, and just whatever they want, and that's, you know, personal.
Jennifer Rose Gens: It's personal for me right now, and just like
Jennifer Rose Gens: God, I want. You know there's there's no there's not quite room for for repair
Jennifer Rose Gens: between me and in this specific
Jennifer Rose Gens: ex partner, but which sucks. But it's just like God, I want to hold him accountable. And I'm just like really getting it like.
Jennifer Rose Gens: there's a part of me that wants to be right
Jennifer Rose Gens: and wants to like hold these like
Jennifer Rose Gens: white cisgendered males
Jennifer Rose Gens: accountable. And you know it's also my own trauma and wounding of being feeling like I've been tossed out through different rapes. And
Jennifer Rose Gens: you know, is it? Do you want athlete and got injured? And it was just kind of like thrown out, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I get that. It's my own trauma triggers. But I'm also like, okay, got it. Yeah, I'm so I'm so glad you're sharing and bringing this forward. It's so important. Yeah. And it's a little like a little bit of a different type of accountability holding somebody accountable when they've done something wrong or transgressed or done something harmful. It's interesting that we it's the same. It's the same term, though, right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the results they want, and then holding someone accountable when they've done something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): terrible. So even that, I think speaks to the misaligned psychology of accountability and programs in terms of progress and action. Taking.
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah. And I just wanna harp on that word responsibility. It's like it's my responsibility to speak my truth
Jennifer Rose Gens: where I need to and hold myself accountable for the world that I want while not forcing it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: I don't know. It's tricky. There's a little grid, a bit of gray area, but also like
Jennifer Rose Gens: not letting it consume me, because my energy is what I'm responsible for. And
Jennifer Rose Gens: yeah, I want to live my best life. But I also want others to like, enjoy
Jennifer Rose Gens: a better world. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, thank you in ball.
Inbal Sansani: I'm just. I'm just thinking more specifically about
Inbal Sansani: some of the family dynamics and how you know, this accountability can really be such a slippery slope for both the
Inbal Sansani: practitioner, you know, and the the clients
Inbal Sansani: just thinking of like enabling and codependency.
Inbal Sansani: And you know, in in the like, over over attachment. And you know, can also, like really, you know, ultimately, be really disempowering. That's right, that's it. Right there, and go against like the goals of the whole. So like.
Inbal Sansani: you know, like caring about the clients. And I'm thinking, you know, like
Inbal Sansani: I'm like
Inbal Sansani: as a client not great at following through at all. And like, when we work together like that, it's, you know. So it's like, Yes, there's still, like, you know, the care, you know the care for me.
Inbal Sansani: But like.
Inbal Sansani: yeah, it's a it's such a. It takes such intentional, and also for for the practitioner to be really
Inbal Sansani: like aligned in in their own.
Inbal Sansani: not just with their own power. Yes, like, there's so many factors to this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Exactly. Yes, yeah, their end beliefs and and and all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure it's it's it's big and important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we could spend, you know, days just talking about the inner pieces. But where? Where I want to go for today is now that we're kind of aware of some of the the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): psychology behind this and and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this not holding others accountable to kind of go move more towards this idea
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our group programming, I'm gonna talk about right, we're talking about groups specifically in our group programming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want to think instead of thinking about holding our people accountable. Here's what we want to think about. Instead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we want to think about creating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): an environment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of aligned accountability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and and accountability structures. Okay, so instead of approaching, as I'm hold, you know, this programmer, I am holding others accountable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Instead, we want to approach
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with thinking about creating an environment and structures for accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a little. It's a little bit of a subtle shift, but actually a really big one based on this conversation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so what do I mean by an environment for? So it's before we look at structures of accountability. What do I mean by an environment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of accountability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a couple of things. It comes down to the container right? The container is always the environment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So a couple of things to think about for our containers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when it comes to accountability. First of all, power with right involved was just talking about how it's disempowering to hold others accountable when we approach with this energy in this perspective and this understanding that we looked at yesterday of power with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that will naturally create more of an environment of accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because each party is taking responsibility for what is theirs and for their actions and future actions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's one piece we want in the in the environment, in the mix for accountability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): number 2, as we've already looked at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): normalizing resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The more we speak to how normal resistance is, and this is what it will look like as it shows up as you go to take your actions and all all the things. The more we normalize resistance, we do take away some of its power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then less resistance. there might be more accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number one. Anika is power with right, a container of that energy of sacred power aligned power power together power with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean, number 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I've modeled.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, all of these for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Normalization of getting falling behind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): normalizing. that some people are gonna fall behind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that it's okay, right? And there's nothing wrong if that has happened
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there is no shame
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how that if that happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and how everybody is on their own timeline.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with their growth, with their evolution, with their action taking.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, by the way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is also a truth that we need to remember as practitioners, everybody is on their own timeline.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So here, right in life, changing courses we we've seen for some of you. There have been big, been big family things that have gotten in the way of creating curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There has been illness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there have been breakups. there has been. You needed more time to to settle in right like your timeline, as you just needed more time to settle into the work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you had more resistance right? That none of these things are bad or wrong, or means that anyone has failed or the program has failed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some people are not going to just keep up week by week, or do all the actions. Everybody is on their own timeline, right? So we want to normalize the getting behind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We want to speak to how everybody is on their own timeline. We want to speak to comparison also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? The more shame we can take out of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It hasn't already happened yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Haven't taken this enough steps yet, or the steps. If the more we can take the shame out of it, the more likely someone is going to be more quickly, ready to take steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So no shame, lots of love. And also, of course, speaking to that myth of perfection, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe you haven't as an example here, right? Maybe you haven't completed your curriculum. But this, this, this, this, and this have happened.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Let me pause on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thoughts, questions, or other ideas around creating an environment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of accountability. And then we're going to get to some so specific structures.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you seeing? What are you learning? What's your resistance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or what other ideas do you have on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I really love the normalization of resistance in a falling behind and just with private clients. I think this piece has made such a difference.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): One. And for me as well, just to be like, it's okay. And I remember coming into your container and feeling like. Oh, I'm okay. If it's not perfect like, it really has been deeply
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): settling to my system and to other systems. And one other thing that I have found that's really helpful is it kind of comes from the strength space framework that I've used in workspaces. And it's just looking at what's already working and like when people say, Oh, I just don't show up right. Don't do the things like we can work. We do the resistance work. But I'm also.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, a part of my work is setting up rhythms and rituals, and really I just can't seem to get the rhythms and rituals, and then I help them see where they already have rhythms and rituals in their lives, or where they are being accountable.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then, and usually, if people are like Oh, my gosh! I actually am, and I haven't been giving myself any credit for that. And so I have just found that to be kind of a ninja trick and helping them see? Like, yeah, you are doing it. And then it. That also reduces the resistance because there's not as much evidence that they're feeling
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): at being accountable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love it. I love that you're bringing that in, and that speaks to another kind of little piece that, I think, is related to another little piece that I wanted to mention. We look at this in sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Everybody has their own natural rhythm on how they get different things done right? So in sacred depths we speak to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how some people are sprinters, and some people are marathoners, and some people are. I call tipping pointers right? So the sprinters they're just like they need to go. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go! Go, and then take big breaks, but they're like out running, doing a lot. The marathoners. I'm a little bit of a marathoner is like we're slow and steady. We're doing a little bit every day. Then there are people, a lot of people that are tipping pointers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who it's like. It looks like nothing is happening, and they're not getting anything done, but it's because they're taking in and they're marinating, and whether they realize it or not, they're internally processing and preparing. And then all of a sudden the tipping point happens, and and they maybe step into marathon or sprint or something else. Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the people that come to us in our groups. Everyone is going to have a different natural rhythm. Everyone is going to have a different capacity in terms of energy. Everybody is gonna have different circumstances in general in their life. And then, whatever happens during the course, of course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and all of that comes into play in terms of how people participate and how they move forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and while, of course, we always want to work with resistance, to support our clients as much as our participants as much as possible
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for what's right for them to move forward. We also really want to honor these other pieces that we're mentioning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great and not make it about us again
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel like there's one more thought on this heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: that just made me think about like the natural laws
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and how that, you know plays into this, you know, because there's a natural of rhythm, there's a natural love comparison.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I'm really thinking about Pto. The perpetual transmutation of energy, and how you know, it moves from non form into form. So it takes time to like, marinate, and fully
Heather Newcomb. she/her: like process before you can
Heather Newcomb. she/her: just drop a whole curriculum like, and the last natural law is the natural law of non resistance. So if you're still feeling resistance.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: something's not finished yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that. Yes, I love all of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else on creating an environment of accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Where accountability also looks different for each person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so then, let's yeah, Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: it may not be relevant, so feel free. But like the thing you were talking about the Marathon and the tipping point. And
Suzanne Culberg: is that also related to people's buying styles, because, like some people when they say, of course, like Oh, my God, I mean.
Suzanne Culberg: And then some people like the last minute, like the sale, you know, and I think I don't know. Maybe it's just me. But sometimes it's like
Suzanne Culberg: I I'm the I wanna be, I mean. So then when I'm launching something like taking it through the finish line is really hard for me, because my brain goes well. If they want to buy it, they would have already. So like, you know, in terms of accountability, it's not just accountability when they're in the container, but welcoming, you know, environment of accountability, of welcoming into your space to go from watching to client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, it's such a good point. I'm so glad you're bringing it up right. It is a good reminder for all of us, for the people that don't buy right away. Right? People have different natural buying rhythms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They really do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so good. I'm so glad that's coming forward. Good reminder for you, Suzanne. When you get to like there, right? They don't buy the way that you do, they? They don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So then, in addition
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the environment of accountability, to having this site of this aligned accountability, where our participants have their agency, their power right in the in the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we also want to think about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are appropriate
structures
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that we can put in place in the program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): will support people to move forward at that pace
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and timing. That's right for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And there are many different types of accountability structures that we can play with in-group programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes I have one. Sometimes we might have more than one. I don't recommend having many, many, right? Because then you're probably in that energy of I'm gonna hold that back. Sometimes I I've gotten there. I'm like, we're gonna have this. And we're gonna add this, and we're gonna do everything to ensure that everybody is gonna end up blah blah blah blah blah blah blah to like pull myself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): real myself back from that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But here, here are some.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, actually, before I share them. Let me ask you, raise your hand, what are some accountability structures who wants to share accountability structures they've used in their programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: similar to what you do in this course, like you call it. Get it done sessions. But I have like Co working time, that people can work on the material or whatever they want, like some people do their taxes, or whatever so like giving them ideas of things that they can do in that time, but also material. The reason I love that is, it's a great accountability structure for me, because I'm not coaching in that time. So often when I'm doing the work of courses with you, Joanne, or something as well. So it's like a win win
Suzanne Culberg: and having legitimate time like
Suzanne Culberg: the things close at times and stuff, and not extending that cause, that also I teach boundaries. So if you have questions you can ask up until this date, and letting them know all the way through the course that
Suzanne Culberg: because what I found early on in my course is, people weren't really turning up in the last 2 weeks. I felt like I was on call, and people were tagging me and everything, and asking 6 weeks worth of questions in 2 weeks, and like letting them know all through the journey that it's normal and common to fall behind.
Suzanne Culberg: but also lovingly. I'm not overworking because you decide to turn up in the last 2 weeks. You know, like letting know the things that when I'll turn up for calls what they can ask where and just gently reminding them of the time, but not a pressure freak out. But you know, this is the time to ask these things. And after this, so I'd be available anymore.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, I love that Yup, you know. Coach. So good. Yeah. And then the get it done time right, whatever we call it, for some of the work of whatever our curriculum is in groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having the get it done. Time can support some people who really need who it's really helpful for them to to have a container to be able to get things done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We do that here with curriculum. But that can be done with anything like Suzanne is saying, get your taxes done time. If that's part of the work of the program meditation time, clean out your drawer time, you know. Right? There's there's art time. If there's art making in the program. Whatever it is. So that's one really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great structure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Kate is sharing sometimes. That's a little easier in one on one work. But I think also, for sure, if you can, in group work, you know, Kate is saying, ask participants what would serve them around accountability. What's possible? What would be a stretch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what feels right for their system? What do they want to do by the next time we meet?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that is related.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a group sense, like a version of what Kate is saying is you can have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also a form
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that people complete
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end of every session
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where you ask some of these questions, what would you like to do over the next week?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why do you want to do it. What would be a start? You? Some of the questions Kate has here are great, right, and then they can submit that form to you, or even submit it to the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that everyone is holding the energy of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not everybody's gonna fill out forms by the way, or share them. But it is a way, and it it is. It kind of gets to some more of that one on one work. If you're using forms as well prep forms or accountability forms, and then it allows you, as the facilitator, to to also track
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. Who else feel free to raise your hand or take yourself off mute. What are some other accountability structures
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you've used, that you know of?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly's saying in the chat I have scheduled journal prompts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hold on to the sent to them, so they can complete these, though rarely are they used. What has worked is pre. Oh, yes, so that I was saying this, the session for forms. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that Suzanne Weekly Reviews. Should another kind of spin on this celebrate what went well, what wasn't so great. And then what's your focus for the week ahead?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily's saying, accountability buddies. That is another.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Also. All of these great accountability structure, right? Depends on the program. Not all of these are going to be appropriate, depending on the journey and and the end result that you're looking for. But I do want to speak a moment about accountability. And so up buddies or partners and best practices.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just like we've been saying, you don't want to force it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on anyone when I have an accountability partner
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): structure built into a program. It's optional.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Part of that is because if I were part of a program I wouldn't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just my schedule. And I you know, II know I'm gonna get it done on my own. If it's important to me. And I'm gonna use the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for accountability. So you know, unless people know going in, they must do this. This is absolutely a committed part of the program. Yeah. Kate's saying, your rebel likes the option, too. Right? So I really, I like to. And that way also, because things can happen with accountability partners cause we're dealing with messy humans, right? So people don't show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for their accountability call. Or you know, they show late whatever
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): giving people the option.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If they want a buddy or a partner doesn't mitigate all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it mitigates some of it, because then people are really self selecting in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they are at least probably a little bit more likely to be more committed to their partner than if they weren't self selecting in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So keeping it optional self selecting in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, yeah, Suzanne is saying, you had a really bad experience. Right things can go wrong, cause it's a looser container cause we're not there with these 2 people who are meeting right like we can't. We're not holding it in the same way. Right? So here are just some other things that I've learned through the years that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might be helpful for all of you. I always give specific typed out instructions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what the accountability time is gonna look like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because also you might have 2 partners come together, and one wants to get to like to talking about accountability, and the other one wants to just like, excuse my language, shoot the shit about what's been going on. And right? So we we wanna give, and what I'll do is I'll drop into. Let me make a note into the member center one of the types of instructions that I give
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): CC. Instructions. So I give very when it when it comes to accountability. I really give very specific.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The call doesn't need to be more than 30 min.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It could even be 15 min right? And then these are the exact things that are going to happen during the call you're going to share that. Usually. It's you're going to share what you did
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): over the last week you're going to share what you wanted to do, and you didn't do, and why you're gonna share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you want to do for the the coming week right? And then, if people want more time, there's some other optional things to talk about, that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So giving people instructions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then again, because of of. We're all messy humans.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II really do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I'm asking people if they want to opt in. And I'm presenting it. II am speaking to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know you're committing not only to yourself, but to another person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Please only do this. If you feel like you can commit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This person doesn't have to be your best friend. I often say we're not. We're not. It could happen that this ends up being like a lifelong
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): friend. But that's actually not the purpose
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): never ended up doing this, but I'll just toss this as a idea if it feels important for any of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have heard I was gonna do it, and then I just dropped it. But I have heard of some people who have in their program written out conflict resolution instructions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they give to accountability partners in the beginning, so that they don't have to babysit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, when people she's not showing up so the things I have feelings. She hurt my feelings. Whatever that there's actually instructions built conflict, resolution, and instructions built in just in case
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me pause on that any other thoughts or questions on accountability, buddies or partners.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Suzanne is saying. The repair after the rupture.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): A couple of other ideas. This is not for every program. II
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): rarely do this in private program in group programs. but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it makes sense for the program, for the pricing and for the amount of people that you have in and who your ideal client is. You can have a private session
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): component built in to the program right? Everybody gets a session a month
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with you. I do. A lot of you can pay if you want to add a session. That's that's not for accountability. Usually that's more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coaching, brainstorming, etc. When you, if you're doing this in an accountability capacity, it almost has to be built in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): regularly. If there's privates. Those privates
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can be short. It can be 15 min privates where it really just is about the accountability.
Robyn Vogel: I got one more thing. Yeah, Robin. Well, I guess that just gives me an idea, because I've been
Robyn Vogel: running this short version of the heal. Your heart program, you know, and it's
Robyn Vogel: haven't built in a whole lot of accountability, and I've been sort of
Robyn Vogel: with that the whole time. Like I use the telegram chat. I ask questions. People respond, not everybody, but some people they've they're all showing up
Robyn Vogel: for the classes, which is great. And they're they're doing a lot of work.
Robyn Vogel: I guess.
Robyn Vogel: because it's
Robyn Vogel: yeah. So I'm just. I guess I'm just thinking that 15 min with each of them would actually be a great idea. There's only 7. So it's easy to do, and I would like them to.
Robyn Vogel: you know, keep going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so maybe that also helps, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a variation on this. It's like a little accountability and but really more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): continuing to stick with the program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a sacred depth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What we do. I don't do this myself. Caitlin and invol do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but they check. I'm always kind of just checking in with people because I like to check in with people I've checked in with people here right. But involunt caitlin have a kind of schedule. Where about I forget how often.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in ball chime in? If 10 every 10 weeks, or every 12 weeks
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they reach out right? So they'll reach out to everybody about every that amount of time. How is it going? You know. Are you caught up with the course work? Do you need support? Would it make sense for us to hop on the phone so that you can create a plan to catch up if you're not so just kind of every now and again check ins around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How can we support you more to be able to receiving as much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you want to receive and can from this program
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I do more. Intuitive check-ins to to people just you know more of a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): since involving Caitlin are doing those. Hey? How are you doing? I'm thinking about you. What do you need support on, or whatever it is?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Involves staying every 10 weeks. So sacred depths is a 10 month program. So we do it about every 10 weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In a light way. shares
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are an accountability structure as well. Right? So in this course, life changing courses, most of our training calls, I'll start with. What are your wins?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's been going on, you know. How's it going? Right? It's not really like formal accountability structure. But there is some of that in there. And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the other thing that I just wanted to mention up like a psychology thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I so I I'm not a gamer. I don't. I don't like play new games. However. I find this to be fascinating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the way that the game games, you know, I can't even name one. Games are that people play online.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One of the ways roadblocks. Thank you. Halo. Okay. So one of you have. Some people are really hooked. and they keep on showing up to play, and they keep on showing up to play. And they keep on showing up to play.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One of the reasons that happens
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is because there is an early on easy win.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and when there is an early on easy win dopamine floods the system. Oh, my God! Something right like I had a breakthrough. I did that little piece of first homework that was assigned. I achieved. I did it. I won.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The dopamine comes in. and then you want to get more dopamine, right? So you're looking for. Okay, now, where's the next win. and so, if you can have an easy win early on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then try to set up some more easy wins throughout. it can encourage more action, taking more, doing, more engaging because it? It floods the system with dopamine
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): little bit of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): drugs in your program. Naturally.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right. What questions do you have still about accountability places where you're stuck. Maybe something has happened in a program that you've led, that you're like, okay, how can I apply this or how, what else, or anything else that wants to be spoken around accountability?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Cathy Norris: So I have a 5 week program. And this is not the bigger, longer group program that I'm intending to create. Do taking this course.
Cathy Norris: and on this in this 5 week program, it's on a platform with videos, and then a reflection assignment after each one, and then that I've created and put on the platform, and then I can respond to their it written homework and you know, and they provide their answers. And so I did this for first time recently, and
Cathy Norris: and just feeling out how I was gonna pass in the moment is how I was going to respond to the homework.
Cathy Norris: so I can like approve it. So I would always approve it. And I almost always wrote some kind of response.
Cathy Norris: because I feel like, well, I want you absolutely want to engage with them. And
Cathy Norris: yeah. So just put it, leave it at that. II mean, I kinda I guess I had a question about like I've seen realize I don't wanna pass judgment on what they're saying, although if something really I really resonated with I would I would say something to that effect.
Cathy Norris: Sometimes, you know, sometimes I just approve, you know, like, but then there are people gonna think, well.
Cathy Norris: she responded to this, and then she only, Yeah, no, I'm so glad you're asking. It's such a it's a great question, and it goes back to something you probably heard me say so many times, for other issues
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connect the dots. Let people know right? So II would. When you're introducing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how the homework works in the program. Whatever it is, I would say, I want you to know I am going to read
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every single piece of homework.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and sometimes you're gonna get like just an approve.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes I might write a short note or 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it gets an approve without a note, it doesn't mean that I thought any less of it. It just it meant it's great, and and there's nothing to to comment on. But I want to let you know that I'm holding the the work with you. I'm holding the space with you, and I I've read it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, and and just lay that out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right always, always, if you're thinking it in your mind.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share it with your people. connect the dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. Who else thoughts? Questions Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: I put it in the chat, but I was just gonna share it because I hadn't thought of it as a accountability piece until you said about so something I do in each of my containers, which is fun is, I have this Governor Hunt. So it's like 24 things that they can do, and it's optional. Some of them are directly related to the program, like,
Suzanne Culberg: you know which
Suzanne Culberg: part of this module did you most enjoy, or you know which module you most resistant to? You know some, you know some, and some of them are just like, What's your favorite meme. You know. Post a selfie go for a walk for no reason, so it's got about half
Suzanne Culberg: about the course and half just for fun.
Suzanne Culberg: And then at the end of the round however many they've done, because there's 24 items. They get one entry into a random wheel price, and then I draw somebody, and I send them something. So I usually make them something so something like
Suzanne Culberg: like personalized that I
Suzanne Culberg: not that crafty, but like a little collage thing, and then I write them a note and then send them a book or a journal, or something.
Suzanne Culberg: People love it.
Suzanne Culberg: and it's fun. It keeps them connected. There was the last round because I had a lot of grief and stuff. I just didn't have the spoons for it. So a lot of my extras. I don't put them on the sales page because this is what I guarantee. And II was basically like love you. Obviously I just I don't have the spoons this round and then this round. It's back. And people oh, my! Gosh! Back!
Suzanne Culberg: And it's great for group engagement, too, because I encourage them to come to the group, tell what number it is, share a photo if they feel comfortable and just write about it, and sometimes it's things like suggest a journal prompt or or anything like, attend a call or watch a replay, so to encourage them to come back in. Yeah, it's just a bit of fun, and it's really easy. And and to whoever's point was just talking, I apologize.
Suzanne Culberg: But what I say to my people is, I read everything, but I don't comment. II coach in the time that I have assigned for it for that very reason sometimes what it was happening was, I'd have lots of time, I comment, and other times I just give them a thumbs up. And one person would think, oh, Susan likes them more than me. So now this is the personal choice in the group. I don't participate at all like I give everything alike, but I don't comment.
Suzanne Culberg: and I reserve all that for the calls.
Suzanne Culberg: The only time I ever make an exception is, if somebody has a really deep share. I may say that might be something you want to bring to a call, or I invite them to. But I still don't comment because it's just yeah, like, I don't want anyone to ever think that I didn't care about them less than others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So first of all, I love.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of course, you're using gamification, Suzanne. This does not surprise me at all. I love the I love the idea. I love the scavenger hunt. I love that you're making something from scratch and just from you and the note so great
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it doesn't surprise me that it's really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): helpful for people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, I just want to pull on for those of you that listen to the bonus that I provided
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the bonus recording on journaling sequences. The the topic of that was about the sister wound or community wound.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Go, you know. Go and listen. You'll learn about. If you haven't listened yet. Go and listen. You'll learn about journaling questions, but I'm also just bringing it up here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it's relevant to what Suzanne was sharing. And when I was talking about projections earlier. We want to remember this is separate from accountability. But just say it. Since it's coming up, we want to remember that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): group programs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have the power to either
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): recreate old family dynamics
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or to shift
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): old family dynamics. I don't know about you, but II wanna fall in the camp of my groups, shifting. Generally dynamics. It's not the main thing of the curriculum. It's it's part of the container, right? Because when a group of people get together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and there is a facilitator. Then all of a sudden there is a parent and siblings right and all all of the things get stirred up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I just share this with with all of you. Now to say, remember that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some people are coming in with the Oh, my gosh!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Mom likes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): her better than she likes me. Dad gave more time to this one than to me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? And that doesn't mean that we have to give equal attention to every person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it does mean that we want to be aware of it in the container. and and that it it can come up. And just to make sure that we're not stepping into any of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know energetically.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jennifer Rose Gens: 2 things, first ones real quick, is just on gamification.
Jennifer Rose Gens: just like I've heard this from a different mentor of like
Jennifer Rose Gens: post your homework in the group. Let's say, if it's a creative
Jennifer Rose Gens: activity and then comment when you post, you comment on 3 other people's posts. Umhm. So like it's an understand agreement. So then it creates more of a culture of sharing in there. II like that one a lot.
Jennifer Rose Gens: My question is about, I know in another course I'm taking. We always we always have homework. It's like real life homework.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and then we always talk about it and share our experience in the first hour. It's a two-hour class.
Jennifer Rose Gens: It's kind of a lot to be honest to like.
Jennifer Rose Gens: Hold that space and be present for that
Jennifer Rose Gens: amount of time. But I do see such value in doing that in
Jennifer Rose Gens: so how'd the homework go? And you know, with my clients. I don't call it homework, and I haven't launched a group program yet.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and I'm a little hesitant because I know that would take up a lot of time. I certainly wouldn't want it to take up an hour. But curious what you have to say about that. Yeah. I mean, it's a little similar to what I was saying before. How you know. Start most? Lcc, not everybody is gonna share right? But what are some of the wins? What's been happening with your curriculum this week, you know all of that. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, if it's a bigger group, you're not gonna hit everyone in a share thing. If it's a smaller group, you can, and that can be built in, and then you have to decide how much time you want to devote. II don't devote more than 15
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): minutes on it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: That's a choice, right? That means that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not everybody is gonna share that it. It's not the sum. But none of these are foolproof again, because everybody humans are messy and life is messy, and everybody is on their own journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? But it it. It is a nice thing if you have the time to check in. And you can just tell people we're spending 15 min on this or 30, you know, whatever it is that you want to be spending on it.
Jennifer Rose Gens: and 15 min for 90 or 2 min, 2 h.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi, there! 15 to 20 M.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we're at 4 30. We did it. We got through everything for today. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tomorrow we are gonna go into resistance archetypes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are gonna go into facilitating group shares.