Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hello, Hello!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Happy Sunday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's take a moment and get centered and settled
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wherever you are. I invite you to take a few moments to go inward. If it feels right, you concludes your eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I invite you to notice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the ground beneath you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in the noticing of the ground.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Also notice that somewhere underneath that is, the earth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that which
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is always there to ground us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to hold us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to nourish, to bring life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I invite you to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): allow yourself to settle in knowing that the earth is there to hold you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): knowing that you don't have to work so hard to hold yourself up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're receiving support.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe that can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): give you permission to relax
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe that can allow you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to notice some energy moving from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the head area, the maybe a tighter chest or shoulder area down into your pelvis.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe some of that energy even wants to move further down through your legs into your feet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): rooting you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then from this place I invite you to put a hand on your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connect in with your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is it that your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wants you to know right now?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And with that let's all take a nice deep breath in and exhale everything out with a sigh, so breathing in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then allowing your eyes to open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bringing yourself fully present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's so good to see everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm glad you're all here, Darlene. I'm glad you're back. I know you had to miss the second part of the day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yesterday, Kim. I'm glad you're back after your some of those technical issues, Sharon. We missed you yesterday, and I'm glad you're here now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like we did yesterday. I wanna yesterday morning. I wanna make some time now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to well, first, let me just tell you about today's schedule. Just so you know what we're doing. So we're gonna end at 3 today, maybe even a couple of minutes early, we'll see. And instead of the taking a big break between around 2 and 3 Eastern like we have been doing in our longer days. Instead, we'll probably take 2, 15 to 20 min breaks about every 90 ish
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): minutes.
So that way we can get in as much as possible over these 4 h.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, so I'd love to hear we had a really big day yesterday. And my guess is that things have been moving through you, and even from Friday, you know, it's just moving things forward, and I'd love to hear what's been moving through you. What's been resonating?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you want to share what came through your dreams. What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't be shy. If you have been sharing. I want to hear from you. If you haven't been sharing as much. I want to hear from you as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin wrote her blog post. Yay, that was quick.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I see you're so clear. Click, turn around. Just did it. Awesome. I love it, Margalite.
Margalit Grunberger: I'm
Margalit Grunberger: working on power, my relationship with power, and at times I'm like God. This is great. Freedom is one of my is my core value mission. If you tell me not to do something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Margalit Grunberger: And I'm not a rebel, but that generally it just feels freer, and then at times like, Oh, no! What am I going to do? So I'm just playing with. you know, both sides, which I and I love the full archetype.
Margalit Grunberger: Yeah, yeah, it's I think it's good that you're playing with both. Right it it's never
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): especially with shadow. If you think you've tied it up in a day. You you're not really in it, right? So I'm glad that there's kind of some of the wrestling and the playing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I forget the words you just said 30 s ago, but you said something that I wanted to ask about. What is the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of it? Forget the words that went. Oh, I don't remember. It's it's more like, Oh, yeah, you feel free. Now, what are you gonna do? So I imagine myself or be, I know the being is important, but
Margalit Grunberger: like this isn't a difficult upping or elevation, or whatever the word is. Next step.
Margalit Grunberger: and I don't know what that looks like. And maybe I do like all these thoughts in my head, like, you know you do have some sense of power when you're in a meeting when you're in a group is, how is that going to shift?
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think those are really important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): questions and questions a coach would ask you right, I would write those down, and I would take all the things that are moving through your head and right, and actually get them down on paper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cause my sense, Marga Lee, as you've already said, is, I think you do know a lot of the answers. and then some of it is in the mystery because it's supposed to be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the mystery. Right? You're you're at a new place. I can feel this this piece around. Power is big, and it's real for you. And and it's it's different. It's new. And we never, when we're on a precipice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we never know exactly right. So get clear on what you do now. you know, and settle it into that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then be open back to. We were talking about the fool yesterday right the full grey and goes forward, chest first.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she's got a little bit in her sack on her that she's taking from her past that she knows she needs. And and I think your sac is even bigger, right? You've got a lot of knowledge and expertise.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how does that feel?
Margalit Grunberger: Is that feels amazing. And I'm excited because I've been on a precipice. You know I'm in my sixties. I've been on a lot of precipices thankfully, thankfully. I look at it as it again. Is there a book a resource about the full archetype? I mean? I googled it, but it's something that you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean you eventually, when I do sacred rhythms again, we do a whole piece on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not sure when I'm gonna do it again. It is included as a home study in advance. But I will. I usually do it every year and a half or so. Yeah, but I don't know where to look where some other pieces are written on it. If you, Google.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy.
Amy Barfield Martin: I'm
Amy Barfield Martin: resonating a lot of what Margaret Lee had to say, you know, like day. One power yay got it yesterday was like, don't know about this, you know, so that that wobbly feeling is like.
Amy Barfield Martin: huh, and you know and
Amy Barfield Martin: I'm just. It's it's like a baby learning to walk, you know. Get get used to standing in this power. And the big thing that's been
Amy Barfield Martin: tripping me up. I'll say it's just I that myth of perfection. And I'm like,
Amy Barfield Martin: And so you know, I'm like, Okay, what's the shadow of this, I said. Just just let yourself be in perfect, you know, and make mistakes, and really love on that one. And
Amy Barfield Martin: Laura to come forward and
Amy Barfield Martin: even this morning. I'm I'm in my office today, and it was tight. I said, No, that that can stay messed. No one here cares what this desk. So yeah, yeah, again for the wobble and the discomfort, and that I'm not sure because it means you're you're in it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): great through it. And I wanna reflect something that I'm hearing you say, to make sure I'm getting it right, and also for you to take it in more deeply if I am
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oh, well, based on what you're saying. It sounds like one thing that is starting to come together for you that maybe you knew before, cognitively or not. But I think it's it's a deepening.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that you're clear that in order for you to more fully claim your power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's so important for you to keep on remembering that to be empowered means to also accept your imperfections. One doesn't go without the other. They come as a package deal.
Amy Barfield Martin: cause the moment we think we need to be perfect is the moment that we're disempowered right now, and that that's really what's clicking. So I'm I'm
you know, and part of the perfectionist is power through that, you know. Hurry up
Amy Barfield Martin: like no, just hang out here, hang out here a little bit in the wobble, you know. Don't push to be unwobbily to. Yeah, yes, and you know, I'm gonna like extrapolate that one step further. And what if you could feel empowered even in the wobble.
Amy Barfield Martin: I like that. Yeah. yeah.
Amy Barfield Martin: Be a whole other which is spin in circles which is very wobbly. So so maybe maybe let myself spin in circles. A little
Amy Barfield Martin: very good, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and and not yeah, and have the fun and the joy in it right? And there's a there's metaphor, maybe, in that, too. Sometimes when we're spinning in circles in life, we think we've done it wrong, getting anywhere. We're not productive right? We're not moving forward right. All the things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But maybe the spin in circles is part of the process. Right? That kind of
Amy Barfield Martin: III like. I go to. You know my future step, and then I go back to the past. You know it is circular, so just you know, the brain says it has to be linear. But the you know, creation is
Amy Barfield Martin: cyclical. Yeah.
Amy Barfield Martin: yes.
Amy Barfield Martin: So yeah.
Amy Barfield Martin: thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: I just want to celebrate that.
Kellita Maloof: This is day 3 of.
Kellita Maloof: for in my time zone, 8 am. To 6 pm. Of
Kellita Maloof: a deep and beautiful circle, going between 2, and only missing an hour and a half of each because of the magic of start times and lunches.
Kellita Maloof: but that I'm
Kellita Maloof: awake, not just physically awake, but awake to be with it. So I think it's a big statement about the space you're holding and who's here? And then the other circle as well, and I also recognize that
Kellita Maloof: I love being in intentional space like it's much harder to be me like. Wait a minute. What am I doing now? No one's holding this or cool. What? Oh, we're cooking! Oh, no, we're burning things, you know, I just like, yes.
Kellita Maloof: it's just
Kellita Maloof: Yeah. I just
Kellita Maloof: so enjoy being in intentional space with with
like this. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I feel that. And I love that that's happening. And wondering. Maybe I'm going deep in a moment. That doesn't need to go deep, so you can tell me. But I'm wondering if this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): metaphoric, for maybe a shift that's happening out in your life or your work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and part of what I'm hearing you say, Kalida, is that you. You have the capacity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to be holding these experiences for yourself, so I don't. I don't know if that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of sparks anything for you.
Kellita Maloof: It feels some resonance. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. Good. Good. Cause it's not just the spaces, right? It's you. It's who you're being, as you show up in the spaces.
Kellita Maloof: Thank you. It doesn't help my cooking, but
Kellita Maloof: that's okay, not I can't help it. No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Darlene is saying in the chat I was teaching yesterday, so you couldn't be here but your your all day your participants were raving about your workshop, and how much they were enjoying it and wanting more. Yay, and you were taking some of the energy and all that you've learned here into that. I love that yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you're feeling the wobble as well. Good that that reminder of staying empowered in in the wobble and doesn't have to be perfect. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? Anything else that wants to be spoken or shared this morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's been coming through, or where are you struggling?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you noticing?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather?
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah. So you may have noticed that Emily is not with me. On the screen.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: And so I think that's where I am struggling, because
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Emily is an incarcerated woman and was disciplined and not participating any longer, was part of her discipline.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: so I am really struggling with not having my
Heather Newcomb. she/her: my right hand woman here and
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know the whole circumstances of the discipline was just ridiculous.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: She started a relationship with another incarcerated woman and had lied about it. So
Heather Newcomb. she/her: yeah, I'm just really struggling on how to continue like part of me just wants to wait until the punishment's over, so I can go through the recordings with her and then pick up where we left off. But
Heather Newcomb. she/her: part of me also feels like the curriculum is so needed. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that's where I'm stuck. Yeah, thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry about that feeling my heart open as you're speaking, and if it's okay to ask
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can. You speak a little bit more about what this is bringing up for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because it feels to me that yeah, there's this piece of Emily is not here right now, but I sense there's there's something else that this is bringing up for you.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I mean, it's just.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I've always been like a relationship builder and
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, a good teammate. I've always prided myself on, you know.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: being a team player. And even though I'm not the one that issued the discipline, I
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I feel like there's some dishonor.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's important for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in all of this, either to and it might just be the acknowledging of that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and just wondering, is there anything else that's important for you in all of this anything that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hasn't been said to yourself or to Emily, or to any anyone else, or any action, just so that you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel. I don't know what the word is. I'm just wondering what else you need in this.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I guess I don't know what I mean, because I feel like I've
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, had the conversations with Emily, and that like no judgment here, and you know II wish you had felt
safe enough to.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know. Talk to me
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and open up about it. But like, during our discussion, she
Heather Newcomb. she/her: she described, you know, feeling having to be perfect, and placed on this pedestal, because this is the first time she's ever been in trouble in 7 years of incarceration
Heather Newcomb. she/her: and feeling like she can't mess up, and if she messes up, it has to be in this certain way, and
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I can just imagine what that pressure must feel like, so I can empathize with her and be in her shoes and like, reassure her that, like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our relationship isn't damaged or ruptured because of this. Yeah. Yeah. So it feels like there's not which you're really taking care of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some grief
Heather Newcomb. she/her: sadness. I'm hearing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so make sure you're taking care of yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, in terms of the logistical piece of do you wait? Do you not wait, and just kind of tell her and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what would you need to know in order to make that decision.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I feel like, like, maybe that's the next conversation I have with Emily.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. Yeah. Yeah. So you can make that decision together, be power within that and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tell me if I'm getting this right, it feel you use the word dishonor before because of what happened. This is another way of honoring her
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by making that decision together.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yep.
yeah.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Good. That feels better. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina, saying in the chat. staying in power in the wobble. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're in a deep freeze, and the power dropped out, the pipes froze. Wow! And such synchronicity! Yes, silence! And you slept for 10 h, and it was a reset with all all that work coming through. Beautiful. I always say so much magic and synchronicity happens within when we're in these retreats during and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the evenings and the breaks and the emails that come in. And it's it's all II just love it. It's always magical.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Essie.
Essie Richards: I'm noticing, after having such a kind of
Essie Richards: wish energy of completing the course yesterday. Such? I'm really having to hold the discomfort of what that feels like like I just such a strong desire to run, and so I've almost instantly gone to
Essie Richards: oh, my gosh! Now, I don't know how to make this fit into one and a half hours or 6 on, and it's like I'm having to so coach myself
Essie Richards: down, because, like every part of me, just like the closer I get to every sort of obstacle I step over through to get closer to becoming visible.
Essie Richards: The strength of the urge to like freaking ran is. It's like, Oh, my God, I feel like a a race course. This is like, so I'm really noticing that today, after feeling.
Essie Richards: I think I thought that would feel quite cathartic, which it did for like momentarily. But I think it's just
Essie Richards: allowed even more feelings to like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like surface. Yeah, yes, first of all, completely normal. I just wanna normalize the experience. Right? I mean, it is, it's we come through a big thing and it feels great. And then, right, we're in the next cycle that the fear, sometimes the great
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can last longer. And that's nice, but sometimes it's shorter. It's it's all part of messy human experience what I'm hearing. And you can tell me if you agree. Sc, that is the the important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): piece here is that you're staying aware.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you are really holding the resistance versus being run by the resistance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're feeling the feel, but there is what I'm hearing is there is a a beautiful grounded strength in you also. But even if you're running a little bit, you're calling yourself back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): running, and you're calling yourself back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the absolute best that you can do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that land?
Essie Richards: Yeah, definitely, I think.
Essie Richards: yeah. I was just saying that I was sharing with my partner this morning that II can remember the sacred agreement. I was going to go to Art College when I was like 17,
Essie Richards: and I went to the open day and saw everyone standing behind. You know their what they called their canvases, like painting, and I was just like. Oh, my God! No way can I be visible.
Essie Richards: Can I have people looking at my work? I'm you know. I just can't have that. The performance. anxiety and fear. And I think I just I made that in that moment. That was the decision.
Essie Richards: I will never do that.
Essie Richards: And so it feels like that muscle, you know, like that's like 30.
Essie Richards: 2 years later, that muscles a little bit like. And so yeah, I feel like I'm having to
Essie Richards: prime it and get it. You know. like, you can do this, you can do this. Okay, you can do this. And then the sort of all facing all the fear of like
Essie Richards: the public kind of rejection, just like every fucking fear. It's like every fear in one bag. It's like God have it! It's like, if I put all the fears in one bag now they're like this is the opportunity to just
Essie Richards: like face them.
Essie Richards: you know. And I said to my husband this morning, because I'm delivering this course to like a hundred 30 members that have been imprinted by somebody else that created the membership that I'm they've handed over to me. And so it's like, not just my first course. The first course they'll receive from a new person a few days after hearing about the transition. This is quite like a big deal, really. And I just said to my husband this morning
like
Essie Richards: I can do like, if like, what's the worst thing they all decide they're gonna leave. I'm not gonna die like this is, I will be totally fine. I've been through so much worse stuff than this, like it really is. Okay. This is, old
Essie Richards: child fears of public humiliation. It's going to be okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right. Because for the 3 year old or the 5 year old, or the 17 year old.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Rejection or people not validating, or people leaving literally might be a survival issue. But for the adult, Essie, it's not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have the resources right? Even if that worst case scenario happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you have the resources to be okay.
Essie Richards: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. On a logistical level. Sc, if you go go through the material again and see, okay, within those 90 min, what can be cut? And then, if you wanna show it to me again, I'll also make some recommendations. I think we can get it down to the 90 min, and then I think you have a 3 month course there, for when you're ready to do a longer version.
Essie Richards: So thank you. Thanks. So much.
Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to give you a little bit of a preview of where we're going today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): III kind of named or titled today. Day 3. As facilitating human beings with all of our messiness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And of course we've been touching on so many of these pieces. But we're gonna kind of get a little bit more into some of the those weeds today. So we're spend
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometime first looking at resistance in a little bit of a different way than we've already looked.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Add it. We're gonna look at resistance in the the sense of.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's certain types of resistance that has the potential to to you can feel like, Oh, my gosh! The group is being taken hostage by a particular person because of how they're showing up, or how they're acting, or what's happening. And so we're kind of look at that in group scenarios and and some things to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then we will look at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitating shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cause that's a another big, important piece, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we could spend.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, 10 months on facilitating shares just in terms of coach training, right? Because we're gonna use all of our, we have to use all of our our transformational coaching skills. Right? All of those skills. We're gonna take an hour or less to kind of look at. You know as much as we can within our scope here as some best practices for facilitating shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We'll have time also to come back to those doozy questions, you know. I think I'll hit some of the doozy's in all of this, but if you have any other doozy questions, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll spend just a little bit of time before we close coming back to our curricula, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just looking at some next steps with curriculum.
Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know that for some facilitators.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either because you've already had a bad experience. or you've heard of somebody else's bad experience or facilitators to be, or just anticipating it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There can oftentimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be a lot of fear around, you know the way I say it is. What if somebody takes the group hostage
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm gonna explain the different archetypes that can exemplify that. So it's like, even after we have set the container and spoken to resistance and all the pieces. There's some things that can come up in groups that can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): throw facilitators off. and also if they're not navigated.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, it can start to break erode the container a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I like to look through the lens of archetype and resistance archetype as I kind of describe some of these scenarios.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So here's one scenario.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the needy one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes you might have someone in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who is just like they're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they need more and they need more. And they need more, either within the group itself or privately. They're they're always emailing you and asking you questions and wanting to take up all of your break. But right? But it's it's they're just, they're they're wanting more and more and more, and it's not that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's the reason why I look at these as archetypes is because it's not the whole person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for all of these archetypes it is that remember when we looked at resistance, resistance is rooted in fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so for the needy one, their expression of fear is to be like, I can't do this on my own. I can't stand on my own 2 feet. I need someone holding my hand at all times. I need right? I need you, teacher. I need I need I need. I need right? Or maybe they're being needy on other people in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Raise your hand. If you've ever witnessed or experienced, or maybe been the needy one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here's another scenario.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little similar to the needy one, but a little different. Call this one the victim or the negative, the catastrophically negative. One
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was the person that every time they raise their hand to share. It's like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, I can't do that, because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, or that didn't work that never works for me, because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah it's like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they when their fear is activated. They don't believe that they have agency. They feel like they're helpless. They just can't see a way forward at all. And of course, II identify, I'm not talking about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this happened. Yeah. Happens a little bit in subtle ways, and we know how to manage it. What I'm talking about here is when it really starts to disrupt a group because it is just this constant. I can't. It's not gonna work. I have a block there, right? This, this ongoing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's the judge is another resistance archetypes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you know, maybe also a version of that is the angry one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the way this one can take the group hostage.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is there a couple of different ways? So in subtle ways it's like the person in the room who's always rolling their eyes at what the facilitator is saying or what other people are saying or this, then they're not actually verbalizing, but they're just always rolling their eyes, or this is right, and you the the. With all of these archetypes you can feel it in the container, right? Because energy follows energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So that's one way the the judge can show up, the other is actually verbally right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that doesn't make sense what you're saying, because right and not not. This isn't what I'm not talking about is like a respectful, you know. I have a different opinion, or I see this this way, or I don't understand why you're saying that facilitator. Because of this, this and that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is more. Again, each of these, you can feel the energy right? It's like almost an attack energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): onto the facilitator or onto somebody else in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the needy one. With the energy. You can almost feel like that. They're trying to like, draw all of the energy towards them right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oftentimes inadvertently. And again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not all of them. It's just a response to fear. Yeah, Nina saying with the the judge, the angry run! It's the passive, aggressive energy. Exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another way. Resistance can show up and sometimes take the group hostage or erode the container a little bit if it's not handled.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well. the teacher.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is the one who it's like. It seems like they're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there to learn anything, or evolve or learn anything about themselves, but they're constantly there to one up what what the teacher is saying. It's like they want to be the teacher in the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now again back to shared power. When you're in a place of shared power. II love it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When other people in the group contribute or even correct me sometimes. Right? I'm certainly not right all the time. This is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): someone who who is not taking in for themselves, but constantly trying to look smart in a way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Fo, because they're receiving something for themselves by being the teacher
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the room. Does that make sense?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So for all of these? Again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in aligned ways, they don't take the group hostage right? There are moments where participants are. Gonna be a little meatier and need more, or want some hand holding. That's great. Right? There are moments where someone is, gonna feel negative about something and say, hey? I'm having resistance to this, you know. Help me work through this cause. I'm just blocked. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's great. There are moments where there's going to be a yeah, a judgment passed in the room in an aligned way. With respect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's great. There is gonna be hopefully a lot of wisdom shared by everybody in the group right? That that's great. That's not what we're talking about here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): A few more we could look at at tons of these, but I'll just name a few more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the jokester. So of course, I like to have fun and jokes, yes, and and sense of humor and levity. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this, and as a resistance. Archetype. This is Someone who
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is making jokes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at a moment where something is. There's gravitas, and it's a little bit of a more solemn moment, a grief moment, or where there's like some some deeper peace, and it's a constant once or twice. But it's a constant making light in order to avoid being in in the uncomfortable feelings.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The jokester is what I call it, Kalita. These are all names that I've named. You know you can, if you have something that feels more applicable, you can. and then another one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll name. So to the needy one, but a little different, the confused one. This person is super smart person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when they're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): scared or triggered or activated, but when they get triggered or in fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even simple instructions, it's just they're they're confused, right? And they're constantly raising their hand. Can can you repeat that I didn't understand that? What did you mean by that? etc., etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is perfectly okay to repeat things to answer right? I just clarified for Kalida. Right? That's not what I'm talking about. This is, it's clear that the fogginess happens because they're in a fear place, and but it's they're not they're just not seeing it. And it's this constant. I don't understand. They don't understand. They don't understand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kelly's saying, my confused one has been activated big time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone else wanna throw out any other resistance archetypes that can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really kind of suck some energy in the group. A road, if if they're not navigated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with skill by the facilitator.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin.
Robyn Vogel: Oh, I had one. Maybe you already said it, but cause I'm dealing with it right now. But it's somebody who needs
Robyn Vogel: the information yesterday.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'd say, that's a different flavor of the judge. It's like you're not going fast. Why did you tell this to me already? I need it. Now
Robyn Vogel: I'm gonna go over there because I can't get it from this right in this very moment. And it's like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, we're not gonna like, cover all them. I'm gonna give some ideas for how to handle any of them. But just you know, the sage? Yeah, little different than the teacher got that like a little bit of the also kind of what I call the spiritual one in there, like nothing can touch me like I'll only love and light, and I know all the things that that nina thing, the loud one. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the overrider. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, Emily, it's such a great question. I'll come back to some of the fears underneath some of these in in a minute.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so Nina, in in part of Nina's last share, she going to what I wanted to ask next, is what happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and here's some shares of what like what happens in the container when these show up and the facilitator doesn't do anything or or doesn't know how to navigate it right? So one thing Nina is saying is, feels like the the oxygen is sucked out of the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else? What happens in groups and containers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when it's not navigated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or navigated. Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Dr. Josie.
Dr. Josie: yeah, I just have to say, this is so funny, because I've been in so many different groups settings over the years and in person, and they'll always be that one person like we'll be sitting in the back row going up. There's that one person, and and they just literally, it's almost like they take the spotlight and just put it on them. And then everybody else is sitting there going. I didn't come here for this.
Dr. Josie: you know. It's just it just completely, and you can tell it can scrabble the facilitators so it like derails. It can be so disruptive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, it disrupts, it just derails. People get irritated right, although all all of that I'm seeing in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): participants start to check out. Also, curriculum gets disruptive facilitator ends up going down a rabbit hole trying to help or fix the person right. And then the other people in the group are like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she's just spent 30 min. Try on this thing. That right. That is, I'm I'm not here for this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shifts the entire space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Disconnect it. Yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't think we have to go any further with this in terms of it's not the best thing when when this happens, and it's not navigated. Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily, back to your question. Emily's asking, what are the fears under the teacher and the judge? So there are fears underneath each of these, and everybody is gonna be different. Right? It's gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can give you some generalizations for each. But of course each human being is different. But so again, like for the the needy one, the the fear can be anything the fear can be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm scared. I'm not gonna get the results that I wanted in this course, I'm scared. I'm not gonna be able to do this exercise and this visualization, right? So the fear can be, you know, the root. The underlying fear can be whatever in terms of why that archetype with the needy one. Usually there's something going on when there's scared, it's like. I can't do this alone. I need so much support around me and hand holding, because I can't do this alone
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the victim. The negative one again. The fear can be anything but the the kind of the the belief hanging out with the expression of the victim or the negative one is, I'm helpless
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like not this. Nothing can can be fixed here right it it's not going to move forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes, also, this is a very Jewish thing. If I'm really negative, then it won't be so bad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's like the negativity is more ward, the evil eye, right? It's like warding it off. for the judge or the angry one. It's and all of these are defense mechanisms, too, right? There's survival
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): responses. So it's it feels safer to feel angry or in judgment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then it does to be with whatever the feelings of fear are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that are in front of them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or there's a power right. I feel more powerful if I'm judging because I was just feeling so. Not in my power because of this fear.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The teacher again, I'm generalizing here. Every person is individual, but for the teacher. Oftentimes it's about validation. I don't feel smart enough. I want to feel more more smart and seen in my in my expertise and my smartness and my whatever. So I'm gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share, you know. Sometimes the teacher can also be giving advice to other people in the room unsolicited, too. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The jokester is often again, is all of these survival mechanisms. It feels so uncomfortable. Whatever fear is coming up for me right now that I'm gonna make it go away. I'm gonna try to make it go away by saying something funny.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that helpful Emily?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nika thinks so. If I understand correctly, all of these archetypes are defense mechanisms that can translate into resistance when the going gets tough. So that's a beautiful way of saying it. Yes. Along those lines. Some of you have seen me describe it this way. The the way I can describe it visually is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a core. Fear gets activated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for someone right? Maybe the core. Fear is fear of visibility, fear of failure, fear of surpassing others, fear of not knowing right. It could be one of so many core fears now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most of the time. the fear. even if it's big. it's not so big that it's gonna cause someone to act out in a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? They can. They're like managing it inside of themselves or raising their hand to get support on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But sometimes a fear, or a trigger comes up that is so big and the ego is smart. It doesn't want to be with the fear. And so this resistance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): expression or action or behavior kind of wraps around it to distract from the fear or the trigger. And then, all of a sudden, everyone's in confusion, because we think it's about the needy one or the victim or the judge right? Even sometimes the facilitator, if they're not trained in this, and it's like running after something that is not going to help, because there's there's something deeper
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): underneath there in sacred depths. We kind of get deep into the psychology of each of these, and you know all of the pieces, for here I just kind of want us to understand this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in in a general way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, that's interesting Nina in the Enneagram. They call this the direction of Distant. I think I've heard that before of disintegration and stress. Yeah, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so what do we do when this happens. because most facilitators freak out, tell themselves they suck.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hate on the people that are causing the disruption, and it doesn't work out well, right. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do we do
instead?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): First and foremost.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): always energetics for us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You cannot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): adequately navigate this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you yourself are triggered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know a lot of things I say it's not. I'm not just tossing this as an idea. Check it out for yourself. This one I'm willing to, pinky promise 10 times over. As a truth
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you cannot adequately navigate when this comes up. If you yourself are triggered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe you go into your victim when a judge comes up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or maybe you go into your judge when the needy one comes up right, and then it's a shadow. These are forms of shadow in a way, and then it's a shadow dance right? So it's an unconscious shadow dance, and and it's very hard
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to work your way out of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some facilitators. They get annoyed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or they get scared, or they get worried, or they feel disempowered. Right? So take a moment and think for you. What are some of the fears that come up for you when this happens, or when you think about this happening, or maybe what are some of the resistance archetypes that you've gone into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Robin Singh, I get annoyed. It's a it's a very common one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And take a moment. Make note what are the fears that come up for you, and which of your resistance? Archetypes get triggered?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly's saying. I'm sure I've done something wrong, and that annoyance David gets defensive. We can never. we can never connect and support another human being when we're defensive.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? When we're on the defense or any of these things. Margalite maybe goes into her confused one. I don't know what to do when someone gets triggered, Essie.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Since the humiliated one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy goes into the annoyed one, the judgey, the lash out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I do this with John, my husband. By the way, whenever he triggers me, I all the things that Amy just said. I'm getting better at it over the years.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yep, Kathy takes it personally, it feels not good enough. Confused and victim Cecilia saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Let's pause here. I'd love to hear one or 2 voice to voices on, what's feeling important in this like? What's what are you starting to see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so far here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: as I haven't led groups talking groups per se. They've all been really silent or energetic. I can only speak to the facilitation that I do within my relationship. And you just named it. And for me. This is really helpful, because I'm like
Nina von Feldmann: in one part outside of observing it as a as it my own like
Nina von Feldmann: teaching moment, like I'm learning from situation. But I can really see where each of these act, where each of these archetypes are activated within both of us. And and the the part that lands with me the most which I sometimes
Nina von Feldmann: maybe it's the victim aspect.
Nina von Feldmann: I don't know if it's the victim it, but it's the defense mechanism that comes out of the victim because I do not like that. Power over is very difficult for me. For all the reasons why power was taken from me as a child I mean it.
Nina von Feldmann: That being then becomes a rager, like raging in the sense that my voice gets very loud, and and I try to get power over a situation. So I recognize each of these are activated and I cannot navigate. If I'm not resourced. That's right. That's exactly right. That's we're gonna talk about that in a minute, because that is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the keys here. We can't if we're not resourced good. And it's maddening, because it's almost like in a good to go back to the Bucking Bronco thing of a group energy when it starts to spin a little out of control, whether it's a relationship or a ceremony, or something, if that resource isn't there, and if that grounding isn't there, then I spin out of control, and then I disintegrate into.
Nina von Feldmann: I mean all the things that everybody just named. It's it's it's quite powerful. So I really appreciate this this particular work we're doing right now. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. Khalida.
Kellita Maloof: There's a
Kellita Maloof: There's a thing I noticed that probably is happening right side by side with me.
Kellita Maloof: having an archetype triggered in me when one is triggered in someone in a group.
Kellita Maloof: And this is not that, it's instead of it, but it it feels also true. Sometimes I
Kellita Maloof: I can tell.
Kellita Maloof: or it very much feels like I'm being recruited
Kellita Maloof: by the system of that person to fill a rule. That's not me at all. It's like, Wait a minute something I would never, ever say. And I'm having a stance. I would. So not me. And so it's it's yeah that. Yeah, that's some like deeper. That is all. Part of the shadow is the the vortex of energy, energy, of of the shadow is pulling the facilitator or others in. To to be part of the system and and play these role so that they can just project off, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a all all of that, for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure. Yes, I'm glad you're bringing that into the conversation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But this is like such fascinating work. And I what
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I'm hearing and seeing, which is a little different than how I've seen it before is kind of like the vulnerable parts, and them activate the vulnerable parts in me. And so, you know, they're.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know fear or feelings, of analyses, or their judge, or whatever come out and like criticizing me, and then my like fears of not being right, or of displeasing or whatever get activated. And then we're acting in these like shadow parts of each of our
archetypes. And it's not.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It's not very empowered. It's not empowered at all. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think one thing that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): has been really helpful for me. But I'm wondering, too, if this is even shadow. It's just like I have. This is like partly my
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I don't know, like wisdom gained from like being in the field is just like, take nothing personally and acknowledge that everybody is like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): doing as they can. And whatever is happening is like, you know, their projection or their activation. Or what have you? And it really helps me to keep my nervous system calm, but and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and for the most part knock on wood like I've been able to respond in hard moments, because I'm seeing steady, seeing that. But then afterwards the ripple in my nervous system is insane. So I'm just all that stuff like I can stay steady in the moment. But after yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's a couple of things in what you're saying that II wanna pull on specifically. So first of all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II tend to agree with you in just in terms of yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): see them in their best. It's it's another email. And and we'll talk even a little bit more about that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the then being able to have the wherewithal in the moment, but then afterwards ruminating, obsessing feel, you know all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's because and and this is part of the dance of being a facilitator. Right? That's because sometimes in the group, when we're like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just love human being.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's happened is that in some ways we have been attacked, even if it's not about us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the the correct instinct in that moment is to have a fight instinct right for our nervous system.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we're not in that moment because of our role as facilitators, although it is important to set boundaries which is one aligned version of a fight instinct right? But if there was a boundary that actually needed to be set
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that wasn't set. we still might make everything okay in the group. But we're going to walk out of it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with an incomplete cycle in our nervous system that still needs the fight happen. Instead, it's an inner fight that's coming out as rumination.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So you know, in you may have forgotten. But in advance
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we we looked at, and I can remind you like we looked at some ways to deal with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): closing that that cycle. But I'm glad to ring that this up for all of us to know. Right? It's it's not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just about taking care of the group. In those moments. We have to try our best to also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not make it about us, but take care of us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and our nervous system and the the response. But then, if for whatever reason, we didn't, certainly there have many, been many times that I have it just to normalize. We need to take care of it afterwards, or else our nervous system will continue to be activated.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And you're saying, Take care of it internally as well as externally.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So you know, external, sweaty workout can really help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): internal
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a version of the choose your own shadow journey where we go back to the moment and allow the fight response to move through.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne
Suzanne Culberg: was just going to add
Suzanne Culberg: second guessing myself, like, you know, was I not clear? And sometimes.
Suzanne Culberg: you know I'm not or we're not, and it's like, Oh, this is a I can see how this happened like this was a loophole. This was ambiguous, or what I meant by this, but sometimes it's like. No, I actually really was clear here.
Suzanne Culberg: So it's, you know, holding that boundary. And then the other thing that comes up sometimes is, if one person voices something.
Suzanne Culberg: I just reminded of that scene from Shrek. Grab your torch and pitch fork in the chat that you put that everyone hates you. I mean, I have that, and part of that is like my ancestral
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trauma and all of that. But I get very yeah. They're they are. Gonna burn me at the stake, or they're there with the pitchforks. I I'm gonna be hated, eviscerated all the things. I think it's being bullied when I was younger, like, you know that. But I did have one experience in a group once where something kind of turned when I made a big shift to my business like when I pivoted and didn't teach something anymore.
And I remember working with my coach at the time because I was really thrown, and the thing they said to me that stayed with me to this day was like
Suzanne Culberg: as hard as this is.
Suzanne Culberg: They cared so much about the group and the environment if nobody cared, if you like. I'm not offering that anymore. And I was like, Okay, do you know what I mean? So the reason that it sparked so much was because people really loved it, and that helped me a lot, because, yeah, it was tough, like.
Suzanne Culberg: yes, we're in business, and we're compassionate. And we're loving our people. But if it's not financially viable for us, or it's taking too much. Away
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we go to mic shift sometimes. Yeah, for sure. And I love that reframe that your coach offered you. That's really beautiful, good, a good big term. Member, Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Yes, so for me. I mean, I'm looking forward to the unfolding of this, and like, what can I do in the moment to reground myself. Just this awareness
Cecilia Kremer: is a breakthrough for me, and I'm looking forward to the transformation.
Cecilia Kremer: But what I'm noticing as well is that I think a a ripple effect of this for me
Cecilia Kremer: is and and
Cecilia Kremer: I wanna name this. I mean, I've held containers for years now, and there was just like twice that. I had like really difficult moments, but I think they have created a certain trauma in me
Cecilia Kremer: that what is happening right now is like
Cecilia Kremer: the boundaries of my container are just so hard, and that's getting into my marketing cause. I'm afraid of new people.
Cecilia Kremer: I just want people that I know, and that I feel. And then my business is just like shrink, you know, like not I don't wanna say shrinking, but not like
Cecilia Kremer: growing as it could. Absolutely, absolutely. I'm so glad you're bringing this in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because there's always risk, like I cannot. I cannot promise any of you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that this isn't gonna come up. You can do all the things right. And it's still gonna come up right. And so and this is where we get to the what I think, is sexy and exciting, but might sound unsexy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the reasons that Cecilia is sharing. And then, just for all all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we need, no matter how experienced we are to do our continued ongoing inner work around our fears and our shadows
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and our beliefs. It doesn't, it just doesn't. It doesn't end. If we're if we're in this, if we're on this journey of leading groups and holding space like this, we need to just continue to do the work, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the other thing that I can't promise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that you're not going to get triggered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when somebody does something in a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And here's what I want to say about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It is okay. If you get triggered. We are not looking at this today so that you like have some pur myth of perfection I'm never gonna get. I get triggered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like it shivered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The thing is, how long am I triggered for?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can I get grounded in the moment after I get triggered, and not even fully grounded, but grounded enough
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to then take the next actions that are aligned right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That is the best we can do, and that is a lot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Diva
Deva Munay: I really resonate with that term the Shadow Dance, and I know I shared months ago, when I had my last course.
Deva Munay: My assistant and I had a big just follow. And it I feel you, Cecilia, like I'm feeling traumatized about going into this new one. This time I'll probably have 2 assistants, and they're both good friends, but one of them's kind of an alpha, and I'm like.
Deva Munay: you know, trying to just set the framework going in and like really clear boundaries going in of like what is expected in that role, what is not expected in that role, and just
Deva Munay: to articulate and stand, you know, like, here's this places where there's shared power. And then here's where I'm facilitating your assisting. And these are defined.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yes, to all of that. You've had so many learnings from that last experience
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the energetic level. I'm just thinking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyway, because you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): been in advanced in 2023.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Find someone in the group who can, who has some time to hold some space for you and do a choose your own shadow journey on what happened with your assistant last time. I'd love for you to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): unpacks just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): dissipates some more of the the trauma and and bring back some of the energy that got varied under that experience. I'm sure you'll have a taker in the group who would love to do some more practice.
Deva Munay: That's super.
Deva Munay: Yeah, before going into this next one, I hadn't even thought about that. But yeah, doing more of the inner work to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think, really important. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. this is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, we can spend forever and ever on this in June. I'm gonna be doing a 4 week
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): training just on resistance archetype. So that's coming up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also a bonus as part of advanced. But for today, just a little bit more. So Nina brought up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): being resourced. Okay? So again. we're gonna get triggered. It's okay, right or not. But the more that we can take care of our bodies
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before, during and after we lead and facilitate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more. You know, then grounded, we're gonna be in ourselves and in our nervous systems. And it just helps so much with reactivity right? It helps to not get triggered for as long to find our ground, our grounding back right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking care of our containers, which are our bodies and our nervous systems so important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): continuing to be aware of our triggers, of our beliefs, you know, and then doing the work, the shadow work, the fear work, the belief work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering in the moment that resistance is normal. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that this is just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coming from fear. Here's a here's a messy human being in front of us who is scared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it helps. ground us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and soften us. And remember it's not about us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if we can open our hearts in that moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to this other person. Opening your heart doesn't mean also setting boundaries or redirecting right right, like doing what needs to be done, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): loving ourselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the the person causing the disruption in that moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Key right? Absolutely key.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So all of this is what we've been talking about so far is about our energetics. Right? So first, always our cause. We can't do anything. Next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we are super triggered or not grounded.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So then, what do you do after checking and aligning your energetics?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I wish I could tell you it's just one thing, and then just do this one thing, and then it's gonna be good all the time. But it's not. It's always gonna look a little different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): depending on what's going on. etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I can give you some overarching tips.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first tip is what not to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what not to do is nothing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just hope that it goes away. No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that, by the way, that doesn't mean that like the first time someone is needy, that you do anything either. Right? You kind of have to see. Is is this becoming a thing right? But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what oftentimes happens
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that facilitators go into? If not fight, then freeze, and just like don't do anything. We don't. Wanna we don't wanna do that or phone right? So what we do want to do is 3 things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Name what's happening
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Speak to it, name it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): normalize and honor it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what that means is, don't shame the person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let them know that it's absolutely it happens
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then find a way around it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which could look lots of different ways, depending on how much the person, how much time and space you have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is going to happen in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes it's going to happen on a break or in between
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): weeks and sessions. If it feels like more of a private conversation with the person. So it's all about your listening skills and and kind of intuiting into is this something that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna like we're gonna deal with in the group right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or either because it would take up too much time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or because it's sensitive, or whatever it is. I'm gonna reach out to this person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Make sure that you're not opting for the we're gonna do this outside of the group because you're scared of doing it, you know, because you're scared of doing it in the group, because sometimes the group actually needs it. If if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if there has been, you know, particular disruption, that kind of thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so naming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): normalizing, and honoring, and then finding a way around it right? So that the naming we cannot work with anything that we're not naming.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does that look like?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's gonna sound? Again, a little bit different for everyone.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I'll give some examples of naming and then normalizing and honoring together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So as an example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's say to Joanna, right, Joanna is the one in the group who's the needy one? let's say it's like, you know already. Now, the third time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a share with a big need, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you might say, thank you so much for sharing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's okay with you, reflect something that I'm hearing as you've been sharing today or over these weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Get the okay and say, you know what one thing that I notice a lot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that even though you are such a self.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sufficient person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with so many resources.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes, when you get a little scared.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It almost feels like you need me to to help you do all the thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and of course I'm always here. I'm here for support. That is that I love to give support, and I want to support you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said, I sense that in some moments you're using me as a crutch
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when really you have access to being empowered all on your own.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And of course it's so normal to do this. I get like this. Sometimes I feel unsure, or there isn't full clarity. And the the beautiful thing about it is, it just means you're really in the game here, you know you you are paying attention, and and some fears are coming up for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How does that land?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now, I can't guarantee
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that every single time a person is going to be like, Oh, my gosh!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That makes so much sense that are the other right? There's gonna be the outliers. The resistance is really strong, or there's like a lot of trigger right? So again, no magic pill, no perfection. But 9 times out of 10
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of that is gonna start to to seep in right. And there's gonna be a light bulb and an Aha moment, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And if there is, you can say, what else does this remind you of in your life. Where else does does this kind of show up for you that even though you are amazing and and so self sufficient that all of a sudden you feel like you can't, and it's like you need an outside crutch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then you, depending on how much time or space you have. You go a little deeper, you could always do a befriend your fear, you know, etc. Etc. But no matter what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're gonna get to finding a way around it, which is, you might make the suggestion as the facilitator, or you might co strategize with your person, but it might sound something like so how would it feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): next time you get to this place of Oh, my gosh! I don't know what to do. II need more hand holding. How would it feel knowing that I'm gonna be there for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I promise. But how would it feel to sit in that discomfort
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a few minutes until maybe the next break whenever it comes up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And as you sit in that discomfort to ask yourself. what do you already have that can help you solve this problem.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm suggesting this so that you can find more of your power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in these situations.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, so again, you're always coaching the what based on the who different words different things each time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But let me pause on that, and ask, what are you hearing in terms of naming, honoring, and normalizing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): finding a way around it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share? What are you seeing?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's clicking for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly's saying. Deep honoring and healing approach. Yeah, it's it's we're not shaming. Right? It's we're we're honoring. And in those moments the learning can be used for everyone in the in the working with that one person.
What else wants to be said
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margoli.
Margalit Grunberger: I think the reflecting back. What you're experiencing
Margalit Grunberger: from from her is
Margalit Grunberger: really significant?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Cause we don't see what other people see? That's right, that's right. And one thing I didn't. I forgot to say when I was kind of modeling. The whole thing is after I make the reflection? I almost always say, am I getting that right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I think I did say, or does that resonate for you? Sometimes, before I make a hard reflection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I might already preempt it with, you know better than me, and I might not be getting this right, so let me know that it can sometimes soften the the runway in to the harder reflection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else? What else is clicking, or what questions you have? What wants to be? Said Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: Yeah, I. So I think I need. And and I need to name this for myself. So I appreciate the space and to be heard.
Cecilia Kremer: I think I need a step before I have a really hard time like interrupting
Cecilia Kremer: like when someone is triggered, and then I get triggered like even before. because
Cecilia Kremer: I cannot name it. If I'm triggered, cause, then I'm on the hook of that dance right right right? Right? Right? Right?
Cecilia Kremer: So I need to resource myself and to say something like.
Cecilia Kremer: and and I'm I mean, what's coming up to mine is like, Okay, this feels important. Let's take a pause here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm, beautiful. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes not only does the other person need a pause, but we need to pause as well. Right? So absolutely. This is important. Let's take a pause. You can even see this feels really important. And I wanna take a moment to really get centered in myself. So I know how to support you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this right? It's absolutely okay to say that as well. So I'm so glad you're bringing this up.
Cecilia Kremer: And then the other piece of these. Sometimes we're gonna wait till the end of the share. But other times, if it's going on and on and on and on, and this can be resistance archetype, or just over sharing in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it is okay to interrupt
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it is, it is sometimes a facilitator won't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or even one on one in one on one coach. Oh, I can't interrupt. Have to absolutely wait until they're done. But that's not true. And I've actually it's already in the last 3 days I've interrupted a few times. Right? So. And sometimes it's just about saying, Hold on, you know, I wanna interrupt you for a moment because you you've just said so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I wanna make sure we don't lose the threads. And II wanna create some space around everything that you're already sharing. right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we shouldn't feel that to interrupt.
Cecilia Kremer: Thank you. I think this is important to know that I can interrupt, and having, like a script.
Cecilia Kremer: and also being okay with naming that I need to ground myself. I think that's it's a vulnerable pit place to go into, but I need to own it with
Cecilia Kremer: with self-respect. You know it's not like giving my power away, which would be my tendency. But it's just like I respect myself, and I know I need this to to be in service.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, and it's beautiful modeling
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for everybody in the group like, yes. we need to take care of ourselves and ground. You know the the leader is not a god with superpowers that doesn't need to ground themselves sometimes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Too bad. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Nina, saying she's you've been part of a group, and you've had to leave because of the the over sharing. Yeah, Robin saying for me, I now look at interruption as joining them. I ask them, can I jump in with you. I love that that's such great languaging.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we take a break, there's a just another piece in all of this that I wanna bring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to our attention.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes we work with the person that's in the resistance archetype. And it's it's all good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes other people in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are still just really triggered or annoyed, or you know all the things. And usually that happens
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's just tape. If the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitators taken too long for them to address it right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But sometimes people in the group are triggered because it's not something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that needs to be addressed like somebody is just mildly annoying. And but it's just like how they're showing up. But it's not enough to be addressed as a resistant archetype. But it's it comes up that that right, because we're all projecting onto each other, and all of the things that people are annoyed, and they might come to you in private
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and say, Hey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this person really annoys me, you know I just can't be in the same room as this person, whatever it is. I'm telling this person off in my head all the time, or they're they're triggering me, or whatever it is. Now again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's for us as facilitators. We have to always find like, okay. Now, when is the aligned moment where it is true that there's there's something that needs to be addressed here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): versus not right? So if it's if we judge that it's not actually with the other person. But it's with the group member that's coming
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to us with with the problem with someone else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as always, we want to love them. We don't want to get off of our energetic game like, Oh, my God! This person is upset, cause I've done something wrong. Look right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And and also I just want to say, sometimes people have come to me with like, you know, that person really triggers me. And in my mind, I'm like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that person talks a lot, but not again, not enough. Right? So anyway. Okay, so what do we do? We again always start with our energetics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then honoring what the person is saying. whether you know whether it's a valid or not honoring them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask them a little bit more about what's triggering? Right? So what is it about this person
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's that's upsetting you or triggering you? And they might say she's just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): negative all the time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it just it gets my goat. It makes me really upset
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then from there again you want to honor validate with you know, I'm going to throw the person under the bus like, oh, yeah, she's so annoying. She's so negative, right? But just honor. Honor. Like, yeah, I'm I'm sorry that's coming up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then from there you can say something like you know, even if such and such is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): person like is maybe negative sometimes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why do you think this is bringing up such a strong reaction
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of you? Right? What it? What if there was learning or gold here for you in this trigger.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What would it be?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So we know all of us know, I think, whether you've been trained in shadow or not. That one shadow piece is you spot it? You got it, and almost inevitably
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a person will be like Oh, my gosh, yes, I am trying so hard myself not to be negative, because I just have this part of me that gets so catastrophic, or my mother was so negative growing up. And so it blah blah blah blah right, and there's such. There's so much gold in and learning in that moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything that wants to be set on this piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, ask voice to voice. So I know exactly what you mean. Sure, just the example that you'd given was about the needy one, or the one who talks too much, and the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): there's like something really gentle and nice about honoring that place.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I it could be just me, but I find the judge a lot harder and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): a little dicier to manage, and I'm
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I can lead with love really easily. But the the the judge is often not coming with like love or even feeling. It's just harder to feel like they're needing love.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So I, yeah, are you able to give an example of how you and also when it's sometimes it's really subtle. It's like little Snarky, not nice things that feel like digs or thorns. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, to me or someone else. And so I'm just curious about that. Yeah, absolutely so again, right? None of all of this is like fail proof 100 of the time. But it's still the same principles, so we may have to work even more to get centered and to not right like to remember. And, by the way, with the judge.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We also have to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first really assessed to see if we have done something wrong, because it would just be a power over move to just assume like, oh, that person is just judging me. I haven't done anything wrong, right? So we we do need to also just say, like, look without self judgment or my gosh, I'm the worst right. But in an objective way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): did something wrong happen here? Right? And then, if we assess like, no, that's that's actually not so. If if we have done something wrong, we apologize right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if it's the assessment is like, No, this is. And again, as Nina said in the chat earlier. Usually we can tell the difference, because if it's passive aggress, if we feel like energy coming at us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): usually, that's the judge archetype, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So everything still stands.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But how we might wanna language it could again sound. It's gonna be so many different kinds of scenarios. But in general it might sound something like this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first. Thank you for sharing that. And let's say they've said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, can you give an example of of a dart that someone might throw. I'm just so that I can insert particular kind of language.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): thinking of a scenario, I think 2 scenarios. One is like so stupid. And then one is like, really big. That was actually a management situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where? Let me just use that one because it was like the most if you weren't given as capacity and the code as the coach. It's not gonna hold. If it I was the director.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's different than a coaching relationship.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this other one was. It was more like emails that she would send just critical things. She would say. It wasn't like something that happened in the group so much. She was like, okay, so yeah, so okay, let's work with that. So you know, thank you so much for sharing this. And also you've really taken in these emails that you've been sending over the last few weeks. And I want you to know, I take them really seriously.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I really looked to see. Is there something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I didn't do quite right, or that I could do differently? And of course I have my own blind spots.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II could. There could be something that I'm not seeing. But I want to tell you with my deepest integrity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I'm not seeing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I also really wanna support you here. And I wanna really help you get exactly what you need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I want now over email, you can't like have the back and forth discussion right? But so you might say. So II wanna reflect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that might be happening here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And II could be getting this wrong
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every time I received. I've received, you know, and received this email. It hasn't felt
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like a criticism.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It has felt a little bit like an attack.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that may not have been your intention at all. That might be just how I'm perceiving it. but I know that sometimes when that comes forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's not necessarily because the facilitator has done something wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but maybe more so, because there's a fear that's coming up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I know this is so common, you know oftentimes. And if you have a sense of what the fear is again email, you have to kind of say more things than the the back and forth right if you, if you have a sense of what a fear is that she has, you might say right and and then just normalize it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and go from there. Now, you might.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it's email, you might just not do any of this and say, you know, II got your email. I'm taking this really seriously. Can we hop on the phone? And then you can have more of that dialogue?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the idea is, it's still still the same naming what is right, and with the judge, part of the naming is. I am feeling this coming towards me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what I know again I'm human. I could be wrong. But what I know 9 times out of 10 is that when I feel this energy coming towards me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not so much that some I've done something wrong. But something is getting activated for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there, you know, using different coaching skills. Is that helpful?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah, it's really great. It's actually just reminding me more of the scenario. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and actually, I think part of what was coming up is, you know, she was coming into our space kind of unloading around a work situation that she was having, and and actually a very similar dynamic to the way she was being with me was the way she was being with her boss and having a lot of trouble with her boss.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and like in my mind. I was wanting to kind of elucidate this and say.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): You know II am feeling this coming at me. I am curious if that might be part of what's happening in this space, but it just felt
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): not quite safe to do that. So, and I'm not sure that she was actually open to hearing it, but I but I like the idea of this being an invitation of like Hey, something to consider. I don't have to like fix it or name it for her.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right. And sometimes people aren't gonna be open, and we're not magicians or gods, right? We we there's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people that are like open enough to be willing to work, and then not yeah. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's just a fact of life, too. But yeah. And then again, similarly, like in the other example I gave. If a person is open, you're in dialogue. Help them see the pattern right? Where else is this coming up for you? What does this remind you of.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then depending on the time and space going deeper or not, but then finding a way around as strategizing with them.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then and then from there, like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): let's just say they're not open to exploring. Would you recommend setting the boundary, or like having like I'm just thinking about going forward like, I don't really want to receive these rules.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Is that appropriate? Than to say in that space? Alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. So, and to say it with love. And what's what's reasonable? Right? So the boundary might be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't. Wanna you know, these emails don't feel productive or appropriate to me. I don't want to receive them, or it might be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some a bigger boundary of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, I am
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not 100% sure that you're gonna receive the value that you want to receive in this program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If we're not able to talk about this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I would love to hear from you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. How do you wanna if you want like, if we're gonna continue, how how do you wanna navigate this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that it's not a disruption for you as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And and then you kind of see from there hopefully, that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not gonna happen, you know, except for point 1% of the time. But like real talk here, right. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes it just it is
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): final thing on that. II really appreciate this. But even just like having the tool in the back pocket and like thinking about Cecilia. I was like, I so resonate. But this is actually someone I knew and used to work with who was who was bringing this, but I think the thing that is shifting for me is also recognizing if I know what to do or how to manage, or like a strategy, to move forward like I'm coming with a different energy into the space, and that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it probably doesn't come to this, but because I know we could have that conversation with full on attachment. Like, I release you. It's okay. That's a really powerful like empowered place to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. And an integrity place to be because we don't wanna keep someone in a program who is not receiving.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, I just wanted to add that
Heather Newcomb. she/her: you know, this is reminding me of the equation e plus r equals. O, so the event, plus our reaction equals the outcome. And
Heather Newcomb. she/her: so, although we have no control over the events. Oftentimes, like the email Kelly receives, like, we still have all this agency and power to influence the outcome, and how we react or respond to the event.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Sometimes I remind myself of that, like, if I'm feeling in a situation where I feel powerlessness and it's like No, no heather backup a plus r equals. Oh, so you always have
Heather Newcomb. she/her: that influence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, I love that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen is asking in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what if you interrupt, and then the person says No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and your interruption triggers me such
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a good question. So every again, every scenario is going to be different sometimes. Then you'll just let them. you know, finish in the moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then have this next conversation that I'm gonna lay out separately. or sometimes it's appropriate to have it in the moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But first just honor right like the the feeling of the trigger
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then ask the client if they're you say, like you feel like it's really important. And of course you don't want to interrupt when when you know, and there's something important in the trigger
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask them if they are willing to look a little bit more deeply.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): add it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then the question would be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where else has this happened for you? Where you have felt
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that someone is interrupting you. Well, you know, you could even ask the question first, like, what? Tell me what the trigger feels like. Do you feel like you're not being seen. Do you feel like I'm not hearing you. I'm not honoring, you know. What? What is that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there go to the pattern. What does this remind you of? Where else have you been in a scenario where you feel like some you're trying to share something important and not being seen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Because what can happen is then anytime you get interrupted, even when it's an appropriate interruption for you like for your purposes, it can still bring up that old feeling
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So if a person is willing to look more deeply, it's this is my attitude with coaching any kind of coaching and transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Whatever comes up for the client, it's goal work with it. If they're willing to work with it right? There's always gonna be deeper learning. That is. Then also gonna help them move forward in their goals.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's take a break. Let's take until one eastern, and then we'll come back and we'll keep on going. I'll see you in a little bit, and I'll hang on if anybody needs anything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. if you are here and back for break
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you can put your camera on. So I know that you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I think now is a good moment to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make space for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Scenario question. I promise we would. If you have any questions of what do I do if this happens, or I'm scared that this might happen right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's let's take a look together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So anybody have any, either. Oh, my, gosh, I'm really scared. This is gonna happen. And I'm not gonna know what to do, or this has happened to me before. I wonder if there is a way I could have done it differently.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or how would you handle this situation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No. it's fine, if not, but.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy.
Amy Barfield Martin: Well. it has
hasn't happened because I haven't led groups in, you know, first courses. But
Amy Barfield Martin: it has happened in the past where.
Amy Barfield Martin: like a student, I used to teach dance fitness. It's like their energy like turned against me and felt attacking. And
Amy Barfield Martin: I don't. I don't know how I trust it was actually she was actually a co-teacher, not at that moment. But she was more like it.
Amy Barfield Martin: I don't know. She she felt threatened by me what it seemed, you know, like, oh, I'm taking over. It's like no, that's not my intention, because I used to sub her classes for
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so yeah. So she's someone who happened to come to one of your classes, but was also a colleague. Yeah. And it seemed like her energy turned. And well, what if, from what we looked at in the morning? What could you apply to this scenario?
Amy Barfield Martin: Little bit different cause. You're not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, coaching her. She's not in a growing group, but and we can talk more outside of this morning. But first, just what what did you kind of glean from this morning, and also from our exploration of power?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are some things that are coming? Well, a a big one being that
Amy Barfield Martin: to to get in my own power, you know, ground, and. you know, cut, be present to the moment, and I tend to think, take things really personally, and maybe just remember, you know, th, this, this isn't necessarily about me. This is something going on within them that's bringing this reaction forth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah. So the first step right is, I'm empowered here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and this might not be about me at all right. So all the things you just said, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): once you realign in that way, and you're more in your power and not taking it so personally, then you can assess, is this something that I just let roll off my back because it's not disruptive here, and it just, you know, and and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): move on. Or is this something that actually is important for me to address. And then how do I want to address it? Well, act? Actually, I did address it later, through some email exchanges. And the
Amy Barfield Martin: we went our separate ways, you know. So so yeah, reflecting back on that now, II think I handled it fine, you know. I guess I didn't give myself credit for that, because, you know, I didn't lash out at her, you know. Like, take it down a notch.
Amy Barfield Martin: you know, but energetically. II really felt that. So so I guess the part of me saying, Oh, let let's avoid that. But the the more empowering thing is to say, it's gonna happen, and I can navigate it.
Amy Barfield Martin: Yeah, just lean in and trust myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So yes, yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you're seeing that and also able to look back on that situation. Yeah, that is helpful to look back. Because, yeah, I just.
Amy Barfield Martin: you know, I think as humans, we want to avoid discomfort. You know, it's like, I don't want to get myself in that situation. But but the truth is, life's messy. It's not always gonna be smooth sailing. So just
Amy Barfield Martin: just, you know, put on those
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the high boots. And you know, nice, really, really nice, absolutely absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So glad you asked.
Amy Barfield Martin: Yeah, that was helpful to reflect on that, you know, and to realize I was empowered at that moment. So I don't think I looked at that moment as being in my power. So that's really helpful. Thank you. So glad.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Dr. Josie.
Dr. Josie: II mean this might be taking it a little bit more extreme. But II have been. I've been in situations of where it's like the the torch and pitch for pitch, pitch for gang does get activated, and we're talking like gang members. I was in a group
Dr. Josie: with a coach and
Dr. Josie: a person brought up. It was when all of the Metoo stuff was coming out, and the like. Social justice issues and things like that. And there was literally a group that ganged up behind 2 women and literally took down
Dr. Josie: the leader of the group. It was crazy now. She didn't step into her power and address it right away, but it was really crazy to be a part of and watch. I was able to like step back and really kind of stay in my own groundedness and watch it. But and then I've been in cases on social media where it's like one person.
Dr. Josie: I inadvertently shared a picture of a dog food bowl. And this girl like it was my picture. And there's I took it from 5,000 similar pictures, but it was her picture. She went back and literally roused her pitchfork gang to come after me, and and I.
Dr. Josie: I addressed it immediately with her, both publicly and on a private message. I said, I am so sorry I took your picture. I did not mean to do that, and this, and this, and this, and I will II gave her options, I said, I will immediately take it down. I will give you credit, and you can be on my post. That seems to be getting a lot of attention, and she backed off at that point. But, you know, when you have that much coming at you, it's
Dr. Josie: a little hairy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. So it the whole social media phenomenon that can I? I'm gonna put that aside just because that can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a whole other, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the mob mentality, especially on social media, because we tend to dehumanize each other on social media. You know, we just forget that it's other human beings that we're interacting with. There. We just think it's.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, more robotic a lot is. you know, and it sounds like you handled that really beautifully in terms of in a group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a couple of things. Number one we can't control right. II mean all of these things. None. None of this is foolproof. I none of this is yes 100 of the time. To be a facilitator is to be risking to be stretching and risking period. You know it, it takes courage and and wherewithal, and just knowing that that's part of the job.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But in terms of kind of like the mob with a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm! If you're setting a really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): strong container in all of the ways that we've looked at from day one here, and a container where there is mutual trust and mutual respect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and vulnerability, and if you are continuing to uphold
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the container, and if you are speaking to resistance, and if you are navigating resistance archetypes as they come up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it will
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): drastically reduce
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the likelihood of any of that coming up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now, drastically reduced, doesn't mean completely eliminate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So if it does come up, if you're doing all of those things.
Dr. Josie: and it does come up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then, when you do right. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's not one answer for all scenarios. But I'll say, like overarching.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're gonna set boundaries. You're gonna be clear about what is acceptable in the container. and what is not acceptable
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the container with love, but also with for those of you that were part of the extra extra yesterday with Jen like with the sword. You know that that yields that that is the boundary right that cuts through the bowl
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then anyone that can't be part of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's not the right container for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Again, every situation is going to be different. But I'd say that, like generally, those are some things to think about. Is that helpful?
Dr. Josie: Yeah, that is. And I mean now, after, especially after being in your container and being here, it's helped me look back and see where it wasn't it be? It wasn't a really tight container like it got really big, really fast, and it wasn't held. So there were these splintering off groups and stuff. And that's you know, I can see where things started to go sideways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): long before that probably even happened. Yeah, yeah, because it is so much about the container, the community, you know, the agreements of community and the love of community, even if you don't particularly like or agree with other people. Right? There's a there's an the energy of community that's being created also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again, can help reduce so much of the likelihood of those things.
Dr. Josie: Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Emily.
Emily Wright: So I was thinking through this it this hasn't happened.
Emily Wright: but I'm wondering how
Emily Wright: like, say, somebody has a really emotional response, or like they get triggered, and
Emily Wright: you know, and and you want to hold the space, and you want to process with them.
Emily Wright: But like it is
Emily Wright: they? They can't get control. I I'm just thinking, like worst case scenario, like somebody really gets triggered through sobbing. There, you're trying to coach through your holy space like, how do you? Yeah, I don't know. I'm just that was like, that's a great question, right? Cause that is, gonna happen again. So first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thing all. We're not gonna try to coach through that first. There's always a first step right? The first step always are energetics. Are we grounded right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number 1 s step after that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): supporting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the participant to get grounded
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that might look
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): different ways, depending on what? What it is. Sometimes it's can you come back, you tap on your body. Can can you come back to be in your body sometimes? If it's in the room, I'll ask if it's okay. If 2 other participants come and hold their their feet to the ground, so that they can really feel their feet or come from behind them, so they feel support on their back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes it's bringing the consciousness to the cognitive. Look around the room. Tell me 3 things that you see describe or asking. You know. What did you have for dinner last night? Right? But we're what we're doing is bringing grounding to the body and then bringing energy back to the cognitive and the mind, if need be, as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most of the time, and it might take a few minutes to get there. Right? That's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Most of the time you get somebody grounded, and then coach them from that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): place. If if they're ready, or they might just kind of like need space and water. And you know, whatever, sometimes it's this is not gonna happen so much online as in person. Right? So every now and again, it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, we this is for out of the room. So that's number one. Why, I always like to have an assistant with me in the room. So that I can continue tending to the room, and I can have an assistant. Go and work, work with the person and support them outside of the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or sometimes because of it. It's a good moment for everybody to break for 20 min or 30 min. Let's you get some air, and then you can go and work with the person that's gonna be the exception to the rule. If a lot of emotion has come up, it's it is really most of the time. Let's get grounded, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then maybe get to some cognitive questions, more thinking questions.
Emily Wright: That is so helpful. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. They're just grounding, even hearing that goal. That's right. Go back to the somatic like, get grounded. So thank you, Joanna. Yeah, I'm so glad you asked. That's important. Question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Joe.
Jo Longanilla: So similar to that question. But what if the participant.
Jo Longanilla: even after grounding, says
Jo Longanilla: like she's not he or she isn't wanting to process like, no, no, no, it's fine. It's fine.
Jo Longanilla: and just really doesn't want to go there.
Jo Longanilla: Yeah. But you know, tell that everybody else in the room
Jo Longanilla: feels that trigger.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So and you're saying, if it's after, like, there's been a lot of emotion and they've gotten
Jo Longanilla: grounded. Yeah, yeah. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a lot if that happens. Not always. But sometimes that's because there's shame that's coming up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my God! I just had this big emotional thing. I've already taken up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much space. I don't want to take up more space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That's not the only reason, but a lot of times. That can be one of the reasons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So first of all, just in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, whenever anyone has a big vulnerability moment, whether it's what we were just talking about with Emily or anything else, I as the facilitator, I'm always making sure that I am like beaming love and respect to that person. II am like, you know, smiling with love, I am, you know, thanking them for being willing. You know, and just you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just anything that I can do to dissipate shame, you know. So that's one piece that might help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with some of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said there different reasons why someone might be like, I don't wanna process now. It might be because that was just exhausting for them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get more grounded and be quiet and take care. They need to continue to. They wanna still be in the room. But they need to continue to just take care of themselves. They're they're spent, they don't. There's nothing more in that moment, right? And it might just be for another moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for processing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They might be in resistance also.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but generally.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's after kind of a a, a lot of emotion. It's not so much gonna be resistance. It's either gonna be they're spent, or there's like shame. And continuing to take up more space.
And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so many other things like, I say, with with the with that piece of having a vulnerability hangover, even if it's not fully, you know. Shame oftentimes, when someone has a big share, a big, vulnerable share, after we've sort of moved through the the pieces of it, I might say, you know e everybody in the room, if that really touched your heart, or if that really resonated for you, can you raise your hand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or I might say, does anyone anybody want to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you learned for yourself? From what just happened?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a way of again helping the person see that what just happened was actually beautiful for everybody in the room
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or most people in the room. It doesn't have to be every. It was helpful. They didn't take up too much space, you know, and then at some point, if there is more processing that needs to be happen that happen right. But I will. If someone has a big emotional, you know, and we've had to ground.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if it's all done in that moment, I am at least for the rest of the day, or into the next day. Gonna check in on them every now and again. See how they're doing
so privately.
Okay.
Jo Longanilla: thank you. Yeah. You're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is all of this helpful everyone kinda just talking through these different things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me see, I feel like there's some things happening in the chat. Let me just take a quick look. Nina saying I was co-leading a ceremony, and after the weekend was over some so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): critical feedback came to me directly that I didn't acknowledge someone in the clothing closing, even though it was the other facilitator's role. I took
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the feedback, but I also took it personally, because I don't like being judged. And adequately, I took the fall from. Sorry that happened. That is really really hard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean you held space for hours. Yeah, I'm so sorry that happened. Nina
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Benika need it to leave. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie, before I call on you again. I just want to see. I want to make space for anyone that hasn't asked a question yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather?
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yeah, I just wanna ask quickly, and I don't know. It might just be a unique situation for for my environment. But there are times when
Heather Newcomb. she/her: folks will come to my group and, like
Heather Newcomb. she/her: participating in the group was, isn't their motivation like it might be to see other people, or whatever. So how do? How do you manage those types of disruptions like it has nothing to do with the class or anything like that. But
Heather Newcomb. she/her: it's it's taking away from the container because people are socializing. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So there has been more than once when I've been facilitating, and it's you know, it's like there's always a little part of me that's like, Oh, but you know you. You have to do it where I'll just say, you know, Heather and Joanna, I love that the 2 of you are connecting but you know, can you save that for the break?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's focus all attention on what's happening in the room, or on such and such as share. And and usually that's enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. Is that helpful cause? I know your setting is different, but it it's, you know. Just speak it with love and give instructions.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: Yes, that is helpful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. That has happened to me in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. There'll be a share. We'll have a big joke as a group or something, and then people that are just sitting next to each other will continue talking. And and the next person is sharing. And it's like, there's this feeling in the group of someone sharing. But we hear these things go right. And so you just address it with love and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): these
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tozy.
Dr. Josie: Yeah.
Dr. Josie: yeah, I had a. This stuff is coming up it. It just seems like in other situations. I had a scenario where I was. I was teaching at the Acupuncture school, and we were in a lab setting. So I had 5 students most. All of them were women.
Dr. Josie: and we came in for the very first class on the very first day, and we were waiting for us. We're waiting for the fifth person to show up, and when she showed up she was already in just like meltdown mode. I mean she was. She was so emotionally like spun out. She. I was afraid she's literally gonna start pulling up her clothes and like run
out of the room. She was like, I can't do this. It's too like everything was wrong. It's too noisy. How can I be in this room? And so
Dr. Josie: I was. I was teaching in a room. It was a shared space with 2 other groups on top of it, and then it was like a parking lot away from the Admin people. And so I was like, I didn't want to leave.
Dr. Josie: because I feel like it would have almost made it worse. So, luckily, in the back of my mind I meditated enough, and everything else. I was able to have us come together in a circle, and literally like cause we're they were all veterinarians, so I had them ground, and I had her come back to like
Dr. Josie: why, she was there. In the first place, she was a vet. She had these resources, and I and I had her feel the seat under her, under her and everything, and it was able to actually bring her back. But then we were able to talk about it a little bit. But this is not a coaching scenario, and it's not someplace you go into like deep psychological stuff. But it turns out this poor girl was
Dr. Josie: had shown up there for this 4 day, intensive from out of town with her husband, with her 2 toddlers, like a 6 year old and a 4 year old, and a newborn baby that she was breastfeeding. And then she expected to come to this class in all this stuff she was. So this is okay. I love this because it's also bringing up another piece that I think is important for us to talk about. So first of all, well done in terms of grounding her
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): especially, for in person retreats when I have people coming, for in person retreats. you know. I I'm letting people know, because sometimes people say, Well, can I fly in the morning before, can I? I'm gonna also be facilitate. You know, all these things. And I really let people know we're gonna be. There's a lot that's happening. We're gonna be doing deep work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What can you do to come in as grounded as possible? Can you get here the night before and sleep over, you know? Can you? Right? And so that we can't control everything. But what you're bringing up is just a really good point around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What instructions can we give our participants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that they can receive the most front coming in already ready to receive the most from our containers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It reminds me, a few years ago someone was in a an online 2 day thing that I was doing. and she the second day she came in and she said, Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this horrible night. And I was triggered, and, you know, like a a all these things. And then it came out that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she went straight from our, you know, 7 h to some big party. And then from there she watched some kind of horror film
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and right? And and and we could get more activated. So anyway, it's just a good point around, always reminding participants to take care of themselves. That's even why some, you know, I often say, okay, during lunch break. Don't just stay in front of the computer, make sure you get nourished. Take care of yourself. Take a walk. Pay attention to your dreams tonight. Don't to much, you know, online.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's more in and out of the container and doing other things. And I haven't come up with a great solution for that, unless I want to have a rule of you must be here fully present the whole time no exceptions, which is just like a personal choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I've made as a facilitator that I doesn't. I'm not gonna do that. though I do wonder about it sometimes, you know. And II think different. There's appropriate things for different things. But anyway, I'm waxing philosophical. It's a good point about not only what's happening
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our containers, but what's happening right before what's happening during breaks. And what's happening after another thing? For in person retreats. I sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tell people beforehand. schedule a day off for after words. so that you have more time to process.
Dr. Josie: Yeah, that's huge. Cause it's like the landing and coming back down and trying to go back into your life after doing deep work is can be rough.
Dr. Josie: Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Any other doozy scenarios or fears, or just like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what would I do if questions?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): These have all been really, really great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk a little bit about facilitating shares in our groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So probably you all can tell. Maybe shares are my favorite part of leading groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know me talking then, whatever, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): holding the space for others to come forward and to share? It's just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II really think it's the best part of group work. I think it's like the reason to do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): group work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are the other people in it right? And all that comes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have heard over the years from a number of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitators that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you people you might shy away from shares or avoid it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have some fears, fears that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): somebody's gonna ask a question, and you're not gonna have an answer, or you're not gonna know how to respond, or it's something that's gonna take more time than what you have for you know. There's a kind of a lot of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If fears were. You know what if I leave a person hanging, and they don't feel like I've adequately responded, or you know all the things. And so first, I just love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to hear from the group. What are some of the fears or the worries that you have about facilitating shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if any.
Deva Munay: II think, just to echo what you said about I might not have the right answer. It might go too long.
Deva Munay: just yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. If I make if I open up the flood waters, and then it's gonna and then we won't get to the next thing. Yeah.
Deva Munay: absolutely the time management, because then it's unknown of how like if I have it mapped out how it's going to.
Deva Munay: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good. I you're not alone in that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nina Singh in the chat, the 1 million ways. I could respond to someone, and the end. I choose the one that serves the least. Yeah, the fear of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia saying, it'll take up too much space, and we'll get in the way of delivering what I promised Sharon saying, people not volunteering to share. Yep, these are all biggies, emotional intensity. That's too much for my nervous system. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, what about you?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was just thinking that my Jewish grandmother
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like speaks through me a lot, and she wants everyone to feel, seen, heard, and loved equally so. This idea of in partly because I worked mostly with small groups and is, I've always let everybody share
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): but then, when it's like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, you hit a certain number, and there's just not room. So you can put them in breakouts, or you can have select. You know, a select number of people share, and you do that so beautifully. And this is a bigger group than I usually have. So I'm
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I for me. It's that dance of making sure everybody feels like they have their turn and feel loved and seen. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, I think
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I think those pieces are are really tricky for me, especially as I'm thinking about like I would love 18 in my group. There's not room for 18 people to share. So like how to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So first of all, not 18 people are gonna share every time you ask for shares. Right? And that's also why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you gonna open for shares throughout so that there can be different opportunities.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a couple of other things on that. Sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when there are a lot of hands raised, and I know we're not gonna have time for all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II will just say I don't know if I'm gonna get through all of the hands raised right now, but if you have your hand raised, I want you to know that I want to hear from you, and there'll be opportunity later, or I'll hang on right, because we are still the leader of the group, and we do have to make these decisions on appropriateness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with time. You know, I did that with Jen yesterday she gonna raise her hand at the tail end, and it it was time to move on. I promise I wanna hear from you, and I will catch you. But you know this isn't the moment. If you've set a tight container right and upheld the tight container. All the things we've been learning about then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that, and I will also say every now and again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can think of a probably even more than a handful of times in all of the years
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've ended a day. And then I've reached out to someone individually via email or text and said, Hey, I noticed you had your hand raised and I didn't get to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm sure I've missed people over the years, too, right like. But but I will sometimes do that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Okay.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Great. II remember in my last group, which was, I think, 8 or 10, and there were a couple of times where we did things and not. We didn't go around the whole circle and let people know we wouldn't be doing that. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and there was just this. But we all wanna share. And I like I heard a little bit of lamenting around that which I totally understand. But it's that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's kind of the tipping point between very small group where you can go around the entire circle and then moving into a little bit bigger space where? So? And then again, that's what the breakout rooms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I haven't modeled this in life changing courses. But just also to toss out for you and everybody else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do this more. I do this online, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes I will on purpose build
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a question in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where I actually call on everybody in the group and time it right? So sometimes it's check-ins in the morning or a specific question, and everybody has a minute. You can't do that, really, if there's more than 24 people in the group. But that's just another strategy that I haven't modeled here, but it's just good for everybody to have in their back pocket.
Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, there's some things specifically, I want to share on facilitating shares, but just to for some of the other fears and concerns that have come up in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What have we learned so far in life changing courses right? That
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is kind of applicable. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sharon, for example, Sharon's concern.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people not volunteering to share right? That's always. Oh, my gosh! What if the you say something? And there's crickets right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we've already learned a number of things about it, and then I'll kind of, add some other pieces. So first of all, if you've set up the container and let people know that you want them to share and and maybe in the beginning of a group, ask some easy questions and have people in breakout rooms so that they're already, I think, of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): early breakout rooms early on in a program as opening the pathway for the voice, for people to just get used to expressing themselves in the group. So then they're more likely to share in in the bigger group shares. Right? So we've already looked at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a lot of things, you know, telling people in the beginning. It's not just my opinion. That's important. It's everybody in the group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How you're gonna get the most out of this course is, if you ask the questions, let me know where you're stuck, you, you know, participating. So all of the things that we've already learned around setting the container a, and also the community, so that people feel comfortable with each other. Sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is going to help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, as with everything, even when you've already done some of that. there might be moments where you ask a question, and nobody volunteers right? And you've all seen that happen over the last 3 days. There are couple of times where I've asked, and it's just been like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, right? So sometimes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if there's already been shares, and you know, it's just a moment where nobody's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's okay. I like to hang out in it for a minute, you know I've now I've learned not to be uncomfortable in the silence, because sometimes waiting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll get if somebody just needs a little extra time to raise their hand sometimes it's just a No in that moment. But if I sense that people aren't volunteering
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of resistance, or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know this, that, or the other thing, I'll speak to it right? That's always always the solution as we've been seeing. If I'm feeling it. I'm gonna share it right? And I'm gonna say it might be that maybe there's just no shares right now. But I actually sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that there are, and maybe you're not sharing, because you don't want to be the first to raise your hand. Maybe you're not sharing, because it's something that is, you know a little revealing. Maybe you're not sharing cause. You're worried about looking silly in front of the group. But II want you to know your voice, your question. Your share is really welcome here, and by raising your hand and sharing, not only
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it helpful for you, but I can almost guarantee that it's going to be helpful for at least one, if not more people in the group. So is someone willing to be courageous and have the first hand raise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So and that that's how I would I handle that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There are a lot of I see a couple in the chat is gonna take up too much space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So one thing to remember that we've already looked at is that we want to build in time and space for share. It shouldn't be an afterthought. I I'm a Virgo. You don't need to do this, but I really do. Time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my curriculums have times on them which I do not stick to. But that's the point. The point is II am saying, okay, for this share period. I'm allowing for 15 min for this share period. I'm allowing for 5 for this share period. I'm allowing for 30, and I take it as seriously as I do an exercise or a teaching in my curriculum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in terms of time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes a participant is going to bring.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you'll know almost always with in the first minute or 2 of their share. They're gonna bring something forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it. You're not going to get through it in a laser coaching. It's something that really requires more time and space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so it can feel hard in the moment to say that. But it's really for everybody's benefit, including that person, to say, I'm so glad that you're bringing this up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a sense for me to adequately support you in this. that this is much bigger than the time we have allotted, for now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then there are choices right? If
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it it feels a good, energetic exchange for you to say, Let's talk during the break, or let's talk later, or have a separate, you know time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then you offer that sometimes it really is. You know, this is a 45 min to an hour thing. You can purchase an extra session so, or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the other thing to do in that is okay. This is too big for right now, but I'm hearing this piece in it that we can really tackle right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): would it be okay with you if we did this as a first step?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So you've got options
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia, what have we learned so far over the last 3 days that can be applied to the concern around emotional intensity. That's too much for your nervous system.
Cecilia Kremer: It's for me is just building self trust
Cecilia Kremer: that I can ground myself.
Cecilia Kremer: And II think for me it's just like me putting that into a journaling and practicing in my personal life. And as it comes up because it's, I think the challenge for me sometimes is like.
Cecilia Kremer: Where do I practice this? Right?
Cecilia Kremer: So I feel that when it comes up I have that trust and that confidence.
Cecilia Kremer: So in 101 coaching, that's a good space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's yeah, I love that. Yes, to all of that right, practicing it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): continuing to work to rewire your beliefs around your capacity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then again, as we've looked at also in a number of different ways, the last few days, taking care of your body and your nervous system before. so that you're coming in grounded
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right. And then also, like you said earlier, you you gave the suggestion. taking the space. I need a moment to breathe, to feel the ground beneath my right. We get to do that as facilitators
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne is saying. The trust that people who don't share are engaged and getting what they need. Yeah, right? We. It's it's easy for people that share or share a lot. It's we can track them. We're like, okay, they're getting things. But what about the people that aren't sharing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what are some thoughts about that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne, or anyone else? What? What is? What can we do if anything, as facilitators on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you can just take yourself off mute and share.
Margalit Grunberger: What are some thoughts that come up around that I've asked.
Margalit Grunberger: I've it's usually small groups, smaller groups.
Margalit Grunberger: But, Joanna, do you have anything to add? I mean, II think I say it a little better than what's coming out, and half the time they say, No, I don't. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely right. So asking right then and there do something to add. Sometimes I might say, Yeah, I don't feel like Margly. You have. You have some expertise on this, or you have. You have some experience on this right?
Margalit Grunberger: So asking them then in there. Good. What else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else can we do about this piece?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So sometimes I reach out to people individually in private. Hey? I have it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's been great to see your face in class. You haven't shared in a while, which is totally fine, right? We don't want to make that a wrong thing. But you know I'd love to check in and see where you're at. How are things going in the program? Are you receiving what you need or is? I'm here. I want to remind you I'm here, you know. What can I help you with?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So that is time consuming right time outside of program? That's but that's something I'm always willing to do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's another thing. The other is. we have to trust
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that we're we're all adults
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and taking care of our own needs, and especially if at the beginning of a program, as we're setting the container, you know, as we've learned, we have worked in, I wanna hear from you. I'm here to support you. Please ask questions, please share. These are the ways to, you know, to get what you need from this program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is what resistance looks like, you know, etc. At a certain point, then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have to trust the other human beings in front of it that they're going to come forward, if not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if we have an intuition that there's resistance, or but you know, whatever it is. Yes, you know. shout, or whatever it is, but we can't. You know, when I,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the first years that I led groups.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I did not understand all of this, and I was the hero, you know, I mean, like the II was the control freak hero in the sense of. I needed to pull everyone through with me. Everybody needed to get every last thing, and even sometimes like, if not, everybody in the room is gonna cry after this exercise, and I haven't. I haven't let it the right way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all the things and
was exhausting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It was exhausting, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the time I thought it served everyone. But looking back now, I'm cringy because it didn't right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Everybody is going to have their own experience. We can put the guardrails, we can be present, we can show up with love, and then they have to take responsibility for themselves as adults.
End of story.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Heather Singh is the share going to be relevant or on topic. So it is okay to let somebody know. I'm so glad that you shared that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't think it's relevant for right now, can we? So we're either going to touch on that tomorrow, or can we? Can we swing back to that another time when there's open Q&A. Or can we talk about that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): during a break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I I've done that over the last 3 days once or twice, right it. So just as so long as you're like not a big deal. And you're there to meet and support it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I feel like heather. We addressed the the long shares, and you know, interrupting before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, good. All of these are so great. I'm glad you're all bringing these up, Nina Singh, and facilitating heart circles. I found the use of an egg timer, the sand fill ones.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have helped visually. Keep people eye on the time. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. In person. We always. And I love that idea of people keeping an eye on the time. I'm gonna start using that, Nina, because what we usually do in person is I have my assistant with a timer, but it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): true, like, only the assistant sees it and not the person speaking. So I love that idea. go ahead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, a couple of other
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's okay to not know an answer to a question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm pausing on that, because even if you know this cognitively, I want you to really take this in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It is okay to not know an answer to a question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, free, it's freeing and empowering.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if someone asks a question and you don't know the answer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we can say I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, if you want. you can follow it up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But some things you can follow it up with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a feeling someone else in the group might know the answer. Does anyone have any thoughts on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you could follow it up with. I don't know the answer, but I think I know where to look
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for that answer. Let me get back to you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or you can follow up with? I don't know the answer, but here is where you can look for the answer. or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where can you look also? Sometimes there is no answer here to a question. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, like people have said in the chat, it's been so freeing for me personally and empowering. And like Josie saying, it helps build trust.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and also great modeling. No pedestal or myth of perfection over here which is so freeing for others. In, you know the your participants to know. They don't have to know everything right, because we can't know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all the answers. Sometimes I don't know an answer. but I'll say this is what my guess would be. But this is just a guess. right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything that anyone else wants to stay on this one, but not knowing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the other thing. So when we are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): facilitating shares. we want to use all of our coaching skills and our transformational skills, you've all seen me use different skills and techniques
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you know, as people have shared
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some kind of general things to think about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): listening skills. Right? So when someone is sharing, you are using all of your listening skills
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fully focused on them to hear what they're saying to here between the lines. to listen for what's not being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): etc. Right? So that's that's key is listening to what's being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there, and probably many of you have noticed. I do this without fail.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna first honor
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Either thank you so much, or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that was such a tough situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or write whatever it is. And then sometimes the honoring is a reflection. I want to share what I just heard from you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me know if I'm getting that right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes that's just enough. right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, by the way, I should say that this that I'm taking you through right now, the listening, honoring, reflecting, etc. That's if somebody is needing some coaching in a share. Sometimes somebody just asks a question right? Simple answer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but this is if like coaching is needed. and then from there, if need be. I'm gonna ask a question or ask if we can do a technique. etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So listen, honor and reflect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask questions from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then sometimes a share is sharing something that's resonating, or a new piece coming through, or whatever in those cases you've probably noticed. What I do is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I listen. and then I underscore some of the most important things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): both for the person to take it in more deeply as well as for learning, for everybody else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I mean, that was a mouthful. What I just said those different scenarios hopefully. Oh, got it, if not, I can repeat. But I'd love to hear? What is that sparking for you? What are you learning?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What other questions do you have around that
I'll just share share something generally. Related to the topic. As I'm listening.
Robyn Vogel: one of the things I'm aware of is that my mind keeps going to my in person retreats and not the online
Robyn Vogel: stuff that I do.
And I think it's for one thing, just like really informing that you know, I that is just my just my happy place like
Robyn Vogel: leading retreats in person.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, the past.
Robyn Vogel: And I take lots of time. I call it circle share
Robyn Vogel: and I use a talking stick, and I like, if it's like a 3 day or week long, or whatever I take like at least an hour in the morning
Robyn Vogel: with
Robyn Vogel: 12 or 1314 people.
Robyn Vogel: and just let it be like, be with the silence. Let it keep unfolding. Let it keep going. And it's like the richest part of the whole
Robyn Vogel: experience. It's amazing how much gets. how much people take in from other people's shares. That's right. And we don't have a lot of spaces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our society where it's. It's just about listening and being witness.
Robyn Vogel: I introduce it in that way, too, for the people that you know are new, like you just said. you know, like, where else do you have this opportunity to be like loved by 10 other people while you're talking
Robyn Vogel: so precious?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's so true.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Bruce Anderson, who is part of this community he was sharing, and I love this idea. One of the things that he does on his retreats is when he has this kind of circle, and each person has opportunity to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when they're done sharing. he'll say. and what else? Yeah. And then it's it's then like. Then, after that, the even juicier things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, exactly right. But you need to
Robyn Vogel: carve out the time in the space. Yeah, yeah. yeah. It reminds me of language that I learned. That is just like that, like
Robyn Vogel: Who else wants to share or like instead of like? Is there anybody else?
Robyn Vogel: Right? Cause is, there is a yes or no. Yeah, who is an open ended? And and yes, what there is gonna be a next share. Yeah, beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What is sparking for you, or what questions do you have?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else on shares is important for us to take a look at today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Kate, go ahead.
Kate Toye: I've started
Kate Toye: well in the in the agreements. I have right. But everyone nobody here needs fixing and including yourself.
Kate Toye: And also let's avoid giving advice.
Kate Toye: However, what I've started doing is because I can work with groups that all work for the same organization. So I've also said, and that goes beyond the workshop.
Kate Toye: So right like, when I see you next week and we're having, we're in the coffee room, and I'm like, Hey, remember when right like. No, there's no advice beyond even now. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad that you're bringing that into the conversation because it it's true. Some things come up in session, and people kinda know the rules for what to do or the agreements in session. But when it, you know, when they see each other, especially if it's a work situation, it's that was vulnerable for them that was being held. Then, right? Unless someone specifically asks for feedback.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll extrapolate on that, just, you know, to get to some some different pieces, too. Oftentimes, when they send people into breakout rooms or in groups in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The instructions I'll give is, you know, share right? This is an opportunity for sharing, and then sometimes the share is a sacred witness share, which means the partner. Your
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one and only job, which is a sacred job, is to not say a word.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but to simply hold space for the share. So this other human being can be seen and heard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Other times I might give an instruction or a suggestion of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): after you share. If you would like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to receive reflections from your partner or partners. You've got a minute or 2, or however long, 5 min, you know, whatever it is to ask for reflection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Because I mostly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work with facilitators and coaches and therapists, and all of that. I don't usually have to give instructions on reflections, but you might also just wanna give instructions on, you know any. Reflect, speak from how it felt for you what you noticed, but not any. This means this or you this kind of thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): cause. I do think that there is also a value in appropriate moments for receiving reflections and feedback from people in the group, too. But there has to like you're saying it has to be that permission, and it has to be the right time.
Kate Toye: I know Kelly's hands up. I just would. Could I add one piece to that? What I fear so much from people when they get reflections is
Kate Toye: oh, my God! I've never been! Listen to in such a way. Right? It's not giving advice, it's not. Oh, but then this happened to me, or trying to make it better. It's just like, wow! This is what I hear you saying, and to hear it back is, oh, my word! I can feel that through my body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Exactly. Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I love that so much, Kate, and you're totally sparking. A thought about just the opening parts in the agreements, and one is just to share something that I do, and then the other is just a question about it. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): related to that. Nobody needs fixing, including yourself, which I love. Ii always invite them into the frame of everyone. I invite you to see. Everyone here is powerful and capable and able to attend to themselves, and because I have so many fixers and like caregivers and rescuers in my spaces.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to ask them to really, energetically focus on holding their center because the tendency is to wanna like, jump in and fix for someone else, and then they come out of their bodies out of their energy, out of their own awareness.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And and so I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I don't remember where I got inspired to do that. But but Joanna's work helped to really cement that in or anchor that in, and I have had people say that that alone, like that agreement was one of the things that was most likely for them. About a 9 month program and a 6 month program. And so I think those agreements can be so potent.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And that said I also had something come up, I think, in that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): one of one of those 2 groups where people were really speaking to how potent it was. Where some one said, oh, I know you said we shouldn't be.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, giving support to each, or we shouldn't be. It was some like misinterpretation of it. So I think it's also good to make sure that we're like coming back to agreements and making sure that there is awareness of it. But my question is.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Joanna, I know you shared that statement that you do, which is so lovely. And I'm also wondering
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): about like in different setups, like, if it's a longer program or a shorter program, how much time you take or would recommend taking to talk about group agreements. And I think you know, for all the reasons we've been talking about today, it's really important to have them so that it because it helps set the container and make it safe for everyone.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But also, I'm just thinking about like, how often do you revisit, and and how much space do you take? And beyond the hand raise? Are there like more important things to do or not do, depending on different types of spaces. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So. Alright. Let's see in terms of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do I want to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's something shorter, I might not take up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as much time and space on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like how, if something is shorter, I'm gonna shorten just the amount of time that I'm taking to set the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Also, because when something is shorter we're not going as deep so we can take a shorter amount of time to set
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if there are are many, many people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So sometimes when I do like art of client transformation where there's a couple of 100 people in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know who most of those people are at all right. So the more people there are in the room. You don't know who is there. Right? And it's going to be a looser container by nature. The more people that are in the room.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and so II will take the time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to lay as much as I would in a 9 month program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I will take the time to lay out in the beginning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of the kinda I I'm gonna do whatever I can in the beginning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to set as tight a container as possible with all of these people that II don't know. And just by virtue of a lot of people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we're thinking about length of program or session. But we are also thinking about how many people are in this container right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that helpful?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It is? And and I'm just wondering like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you say you'll take longer. Is it like I would take 30 min to do this for 15 min? No, as long as what I wrote there with more flourishes. I mean, obviously, there's other pieces of setting the container that I'm doing. That was just, you know, one section. But I'm not gonna skip
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): any of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So if it's a 3 day like art of client transformation, and and I'm taking honestly, I'm taking the first 60 to 75 min to set the container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, but I'm doing that on a 3 day retreat, no matter what. Yeah. Did that for this one?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes 90 min.
Thank. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. We are in the home stretch. We have less than an hour left.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's take just a short break, and and then we'll come back and we'll finish out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our retreat. So let's is it okay? If we just kind of do a bio break til 2, 15, and then I have a feeling we'll finish a few minutes before 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's do that. Let's let's take until 2 15, and then we'll come back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have a strong ending.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So as we're kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): moving towards. I'm starting to close this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): retreat about facilitation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna say something that I said on the first day. just kind of as a reminder
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that I think brings a lot of the E. Everything that we've looked at together in one way, which is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't think I put it exactly this way on the first day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whether it's a one-on-one session or a group session.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The way I like to think of it is, there's always 2 journeys going on at the same time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): extensively at the journey of the curriculum right? Taking our heroes step by step by step by step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's always happening in a group right to reach the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): results
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about why people stepped in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the first place.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But there's always a second journey that is happening in a well-held and facilitated
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And when you're really using your facilitation skills, as we've seen over and over the last 3 days. Not only does it help support
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the curriculum journey. but something else happens.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because facilitation is about the relationship between the the facilitator and each individual person in the group as well as
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the facilitation of the group as a whole.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so what happens in facilitation? That second journey?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It helps transform so much more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than just the curriculum journey right? It. It helps whether you speak it out loud or not. It helps participants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel pieces around power. feel pieces around family dynamics.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): real pieces around, trusting themselves around, feeling seen and heard by others. Right? Being a a so many different things. It's just this beautiful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): other thing that is happening through our containers and through our facilitation. Whether it's said explicitly or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does that land
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And to me, I mean, when it to think about that, it's it just makes groups even more rich and exciting and and and purposeful, because we're doing so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the container right. And when I say doing, I don't mean it's it's exhausting for us, or we're putting a lot out, but simply by creating these containers. And then how we show up and and respond and create community
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything that wants to be said on that or or that wants to be underlined on that.
Deva Munay: II could just echo that from my experience.
Deva Munay: holding that space of shared power in groups at the end.
Deva Munay: people are just like, Wow, this container. And everyone that I've met was so impactful. And last time there was a woman she's like I normally never share. But you got it out of me, and everyone just showed up. And it's just yeah. It's part of the magic of really seeing how
Deva Munay: much people need that, especially now. And after Covid people needing community and remembering it's safe to be with people. And yeah, so just everything you said I would say absolutely. And it's why I want to learn how to facilitate better and better, so that
Deva Munay: it can continue to, you know. Take people to another level that they can't on their own.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I really. And I I'm not. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic when I say this, II really believe that what we're talking about over these days and spaces like this one that we've created together. The world needs more of this. And there is ripple effect out in the world, regardless of the curriculum.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kathy.
Cathy Norris: yeah, I just wanna say the same that this is why I'm pursuing what I want to do. Coaching. I discovered that
Cathy Norris: I was doing mostly group
Cathy Norris: corporate trainings, and some of very little one on one coaching, some of that. And then, during Covid.
Cathy Norris: I was on the board of my Human Resources Association and offered weekly groups just to express emotions, and I offered them 6 weeks at a time. First one was no charge, maybe the first 2, and then I started charging like, Oh, get, you know, 49. And then people pay me like a hundred, you know, and all we were doing was I was letting them share and support each other, and that
Cathy Norris: who helped me to see.
Cathy Norris: That's just when I what I want to do. I want to provide that opportunity supported opportunity to express and be heard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that. I'm so glad that you're doing that doesn't surprise me that people are like here. Take more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's shift gears just for a few minutes. I want to swing back to each of your curricula wherever your curriculum is at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all good right like we looked at yesterday. Everybody has their own natural rhythm, and things that are happening in our lives. And right so wherever you're at is exactly where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're meant to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are your next?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 to 3 baby steps on the curriculum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're working on right now. Take a few minutes to well, it's gonna be a minute and a half. I take. What? What is the next baby? So right? So maybe for you, the next baby step is working on a particular module.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you. The next baby step is figuring out this exercise that you just put a placeholder in, that, you know, is gonna be a bigger exercise. That's what's next for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe what's next for you is just finally submit to Joanna what you have so far right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But project ahead the next 2, or maybe 3 steps in your curriculum. What is it for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, Kalida?
Kellita Maloof: See? You soon.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take another half minute with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if one of the next steps that you just identified is, I'm gonna share my work with Joanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or the groove.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know yourself very well, and you know that in this moment, in this container, you are feeling really inspired, like you're gonna do it. You believe that in that this moment. But you have a little.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sir, that over the next few days, whatever you're feeling, whatever inspiration you're feeling right now might just dissipate a little bit. And then you're not gonna share the work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you would like to raise your hand right now to let me know so that I can follow. If you want me to follow up with you just in case now is the moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I see, Margalie, and you know, if you're raising your hand, if you can share in the chat by when you you're gonna send it to me. So I don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): check in before you were meaning to. That would be really helpful, too. So Mark elite.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cecilia Kelly, give me some dates.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When are you going to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 1? 16
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): save 1 17.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Josie. I got it. I got him this time. I'm so glad you sent again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! Good! Good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So like we were talking about yesterday. I cannot. It is not my place, nor is it empowering for you for me to hold you accountable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it is appropriate. If you're just like Joanna, please check in with me and give me a note that is appropriate, and I'm happy to do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we've moved through so much over these 3 days. We started off by looking at our relationship to power, and how we maybe have put power into shadow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): moving to power under or power over.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked at different ways of creating safety and being trauma informed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our containers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we've looked at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): an energy that maybe we've put into shadow or have repressed or not brought into our facilitation that actually, we really need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked at accountability.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've looked at resistance and shares, and of course, so much more. Within all of that, we've
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of been like a week in 3 days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna give you a few minutes right now to jot down. You're not going to be able to. You know. Write down everything that you're taking away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But what are some of the big things that you're taking away? And I recommend making 2 columns, one. What are you taking away personally for yourself?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And if this works for you, if not just one big column, and then the other practitioner-wise, what are you taking away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and everyone that's been sharing in the chat about nudges and all that. I'm making notes, even if I haven't said your name out loud.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what are your takeaways? Really? Take the next few minutes and list out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as many as you can.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is part of integration, right? It's a little kind of integration piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take another half minute. What else can you add?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we have the right size group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where we can hear from everybody
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we close.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'd love for you to choose the the most in this moment. You know the what feels like the most important takeaway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and very briefly, in a minute or under, and I'll I'm gonna be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): loosely holding time, you know. I'll let you know, but very briefly, when I call on you. Share. What what is it that you're taking away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Facilitators know in person? I often wait for people to raise hands, and I don't. I won't call on them first.
Sometimes I do that online and then sometimes online. Just for time's sake.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll just call on people. And so I'm going to do that today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Amy is okay. To start with you. I'm gonna go in order.
Amy Barfield Martin: Yeah. The the big takeaway is
Amy Barfield Martin: loving that and perfect self just
Amy Barfield Martin: blowing her
space.
Amy Barfield Martin: A voice to be in the wobble.
you know. Just
Amy Barfield Martin: oh, that feels good. Yeah. Bringing that back. Yeah.
Amy Barfield Martin: and showing up as my full self. It just means allowing space for it all. You know, the
Amy Barfield Martin: some. Sometimes I'm gonna have the energy to be really present, and, you know, get my own. And sometimes I'm gonna
Amy Barfield Martin: need to conserve. And you know, dial it down. And that's really what I want to model within. My course is like being your full selves not being perfect, and
Amy Barfield Martin: a game, you know, a, a, a game means C is okay. Now then, or E, even enough. I'm gonna pause you there for time. Yes, I've seen you work on those the last meeting. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, thank you. Thank you. And for all of us, for Amy, for you and all of us with the wobble
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): toddlers need to wobble in order to learn how to walk right. It is part of the process of learning.
Amy Barfield Martin: Kathy.
Cathy Norris: for me, for me. The biggest takeaway is from our breakout yesterday, being bringing in my my full personality, my my exuberance and excitement. And and
Cathy Norris: and not only because obviously, then, I'm bringing I'm being myself and being more passionate.
Cathy Norris: But even for what I do, which is helping people helping my clients get in touch with their emotions. It tends to be heavier, right? And why not bring in the joy to that? I'm feeling, and really express that because they need to do that, too.
Cathy Norris: Your people need that or not talk about, you know. I thought, oh, I don't want to talk about myself and the things I'm passionate about. But yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. so nicely done. Yes. Cecilia.
Cecilia Kremer: so the most important for me, and I feel I have built some safety and trust within myself, and I want to continue with this energy and kind of wire that in
Cecilia Kremer: to allow more people into my circles
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful, and to just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connect it to something you said earlier, which means that Europe.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of a allowing is not feeling like you need to control what's gonna happen or this or that, allowing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful, nicely done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Darlene.
Darlene Frank: The biggest thing for me is from today is stepping into the when I, when I'm feeling incompetent or or clumsy or imperfect, just stepping into my power even within that. That is such a
Darlene Frank: beautiful concept. I've never thought of it like that before, and I can just begin to. I can imagine doing it. It might look
Darlene Frank: entertaining.
Darlene Frank: And the other piece is acknowledging the disruptor for whatever they are
Darlene Frank: needing to express. and that little coaching process that's really helpful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so so glad. And I got chills as you were talking about stepping into your power. We all have access to that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in any moment. Right? Just step in good diva.
Deva Munay: I think what I'm taking away most is just allowing myself to integrate new skills slowly and not expect. Like all of a sudden, I'm gonna te change my teaching style, cause I've been doing it a long time, and for a while like beating myself up like, Oh, my God, I'm not doing enough! And then I look back. I'm like they've already been great, my
Deva Munay: classes, and how can I make them better, and just allowing myself to feel vulnerable, to try new skills and techniques on, but not feeling like I have to revamp everything immediately so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so huge. I'm so glad you're seeing that you are an incredible facilitator. And this is not a revamp. This is experimenting with new things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful Dr. Josie.
Dr. Josie: the biggest takeaway ha! For me, has to do with stepping into my power and taking my seat on my throne.
Dr. Josie: which is huge. So it was just a really really cool gift.
Dr. Josie: No.
Dr. Josie: and also just to be able to the opportunity to do continued work on myself to support a group that I really want to carry through for a long program. So and then in scheduling is a bunch of stuff. But setting the container and ha! Making that a priority
Dr. Josie: going forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad. I mean all the pieces. Yes, and it's been so beautiful to watch you reclaim pieces of your power the last 3 days, and I'm so glad you're underscoring. Take the time to set the container. Everything follows from that.
Dr. Josie: Exactly. So, thank you so much.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: I think. professionally, I am taking away
Heather Newcomb. she/her: clarity around the responsibility
Heather Newcomb. she/her: of a facilitator.
Heather Newcomb. she/her: And then, personally, I've really been
Heather Newcomb. she/her: meditating on
Heather Newcomb. she/her: how to bring the energy of my story to like donors and legislators without the details. Necessarily.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad, feels
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really important next piece for you. and one that you'll be empowered in as you do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ciao.
Jo Longanilla: For me.
Jo Longanilla: It's the power thing of
Jo Longanilla: not, you know, like the power being a level of playing field, and there's not power over or power under, and yes, definitely with the group. But as you were talking about how like we are also the container. And so, seeing that we are not putting
Jo Longanilla: power under like we are, you know what I mean, and if I can articulate this, that that we are seeing ourselves of, you know, being powered under. Or, you know, being powered over by.
Jo Longanilla: yeah, the group.
Jo Longanilla: yeah, beautiful. Yeah. So important. Right? Wh, are feeling where our energy is, because I think sometimes there's that tendency of like, Oh, it's the group, you know, and and we forget about ourselves. So it just goes back to the whole resource thing, too. So thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. Thank you, Kate.
Kate Toye: Thanks.
Kate Toye: hmm!
Kate Toye: It's been wonderful. So thank you all so much. And I was just looking at you all and thinking how I truly appreciate every single one of you so much.
Kate Toye: What I need to bring more of I'm very aware of, and my shift was I easily share about my own childhood wounding I easily share about. You know, if I went from self loathing to self loving. If I can do it, you can do it. But what really came clear is, I don't share what a life
Kate Toye: built intentionally looks like like the day to day. Oh, my God! That just brings up so much emotion like the day to day.
Kate Toye: and to go from self-loathing to honoring self, and like I was just sitting with somebody, and I was like, I have no chatter in my head, and they were like that must be so nice, and it was like
Kate Toye: I used to live with that constant chatter.
Kate Toye: Right? Why didn't you do this better? What if you do this? Why did you say that when you should've said this, and so just to share that day to day, of
Kate Toye: what a life
Kate Toye: intentionally looks like. So thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I just feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the power and and the depth in that. And then how empowering that's gonna be for your people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I am taking away just so much learning from you, Joanna, and like all the shares, and even as I was writing, I was like, there's so many things I feel like I have days that I need to integrate, but I think the biggest one is just
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): acknowledging the embodiment of this shamanic self who's both grounded and rooted and deep and powerful, and also joyful and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and vital and sexy. And and she they because it was all the genders was
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you know, wielding this incredible sword and wand. It's just like seeing the light beam of that, and how it both radiates out and magnetizes in and and trust the word trust just kept coming. It's like just root into that, like you don't have to have all the notes and all the information, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): grounding into the like the depth and the joy of that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then calling in the disruptors and the rebels who are ready to like, be embodied, change makers in a way. That's like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): truly dynamic, and all of that the love and the joy and the and the depth and energy and vitality, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): From
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kim
Kim Davies: I found these last 3 days so helpful. My biggest take away is stepping into my aligned power and that energy of playfulness. And and with that energy of playfulness comes the lightness of I have this thing about
Kim Davies: not saying II don't know.
Kim Davies: and saying I don't know is just the lightness you know that energy of it, and it just makes like, oh, I can do anything right, because if I have the compassion and forgiveness for myself, and I don't have to know everything. Then I can bring that to myself and bring that space to others
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): big. Yes, to all of that. And your people. That is one of all of that is some of the biggest things your people are also needing for themselves.
Kim Davies: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Mark elite.
Margalit Grunberger: I've I've learned so much. The overarching is align with my power, dance with it, be wobbly. And then my next steps. I have 3 groups that I'm working with, and things are going to change. But the one in particular that I
Margalit Grunberger: never thought about is when I introduce exercises or reflection exercises.
Margalit Grunberger: III my energy is like well, this might be how I don't say it, but my might be helpful. I dismiss it from the beginning, just in case you don't find it valuable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad you're seeing that. And that reminds me of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you so beautifully worked with yesterday being the wise teacher.
Margalit Grunberger: right? Yeah. Give myself permission to teach. Yeah, right? Thank you. Yeah, really very helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nicely done, Nina.
Nina von Feldmann: my my biggest takeaway. And Aha moments was in my text sharing about this event so much of what I do is really multimedia and creative, and I'm passionate about it. But I'm reflecting that wasn't the only moment.
Nina von Feldmann: There are a lot of moments where people have meltdowns afterwards, and I and I hold space. And but I've created such a huge container, not just the space holding, but the the whole accoutrements, the visuals of everything around it that I need that time to ground and moving forward. I'll still do that, but moving forward in the workshops that I'm going to be, or the things I'm going to be bringing out. I'm not going to do so much so that I can make space for that and also make space for myself. I've
Nina von Feldmann: cut myself off to my detriment to make space for someone else, to give more to others and to diminished myself. So that was a huge like, wow.
Nina von Feldmann: you've been a lot of those moments. I made those for myself. Yay, okay. So changing that. Yes, yes, so huge. And and II feel that commitment to the change. It's it's happening.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's happening.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good Robin.
There's been a very potent handful of learnings. And the one thing I'm just like bridging together is the first day of first day when we talked about Power and I got to see, like all my shadows, and
Robyn Vogel: in better
in power, and and then link to
Robyn Vogel: something I know about myself. But I didn't really link it to that piece exactly. And that is when you were sharing
Robyn Vogel: personal story during the invitation yesterday program around like being in a family where, you know.
Robyn Vogel: having a voice
Robyn Vogel: wasn't really invited or wanted because there was so much other chaos going on.
And so that power over piece is really big for me. And so it also, you know, I can see, like where
Robyn Vogel: there are shadow pieces where
Robyn Vogel: I have. You know, there's things that I have limited as a result.
Robyn Vogel: despite. you know, overall things going well. But
Robyn Vogel: I'm really wanting a lot more from my business.
and so yeah, that that piece is something I just haven't named in the space yet.
Robyn Vogel: Yeah, I'm so excited about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's gonna evolve from that that feels
Robyn Vogel: so big. And II can see already it's coming. Good. Thank you.
Robyn Vogel: Sharon.
Sharon Epstein: Those are my biggest takeaways. I've focused a lot on the fears I have about facilitating or how it's going to go, or those kinds of things.
Sharon Epstein: and the 2 pieces that I'm taking away are one. What really grounds me is to lean into the love and respect I have for the participants who come to my programs because they're willing
Sharon Epstein: to do the work of of try and become better parents and be there for their kids in new ways, which I just think is
Sharon Epstein: just such an important thing and so important for individuals and for the world. And then the other piece is
Sharon Epstein: that you know my worries about whether participants do this or that or the other is just to focus on myself, not in intense
Sharon Epstein: negative way. But just to focus on building my skills and applying everything that I've learned here and from the class in general, in terms of how to structure curriculum, or how to be a good facilitator, how you set things up and creating safety, and then the rest is up to individuals in the group that they want to do. And so that's that's just very calming for me. It gives me like a very constructive place to focus, and it makes me feel better. So I just really want to remember those things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yeah. Takes. And it takes pressure off right and allows for more freedom.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): such incredible takeaways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm just so grateful for each of you and everyone that has to move in and out over the last 3 days of the space. I'm just so grateful for each of your presence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and all that you've shared, and and all that you've brought forward your wisdom, your hearts, all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I always learn so so much in these spaces, and they nourish me so thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In so saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the work of this circle.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but really only just begun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May you return to your ordinary lives, extraordinary humans! May you walk with the knowing in your heart that you hold sacred aligned power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that there is so much opportunity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for transformation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the spaces that you lead
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and hold.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am sending so much love and gratitude to each of you. I'm a little sad. We only have one session left. It's not tomorrow we have off tomorrow. It's a week from Monday. It's a little bit of a longer class.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have it all in your schedules. If you need anything before them, let me know. I'll be checking in on curriculum, and I'm sending you all just lots of love for the rest of your day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll hang out if anybody needs anything. If not, I'll see you in a week.
Margalit Grunberger: Thank you.