Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hello, everybody! Welcome! Welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, myself. Set up here. Give me one sec.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here we go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm sorry. Let's get my notes here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there we go. All right.
Inbal Sansani: So what about your video is off?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thanks, Zinbaal.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. welcome everybody. We are in session 2 for life changing courses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Today we are going to continue to go deeper into mining your thought leadership and into your curriculum development.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna say this, what I'm about to say next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna say more than once today as well as in the following weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're still working on week, one homework.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's okay. You're not behind. You haven't done anything wrong. And you'll still receive a lot from today to keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember, as I've said, the process of putting together a curriculum. And a program is cyclical.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what that means in this context is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might have done a first pass at the heroes here, the beginning and the end. Maybe you wanna go back and do more. That's fine, right? Maybe you haven't done the homework. That's fine, too. You can do it this week, but we're gonna just keep on moving ahead. And as you start to do this week's work, it's gonna inform last week's work as well, and it might shift
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some things from there. Right? So we're we're we kind of need to lay things out week by week by week, because I can't just say everything all at once.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it is a cyclical jury.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we've got 13 weeks here. It's a lot of padded time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that if you have a week where you're off, you didn't get to the work. You had create a creative blocks, whatever it is. You're fine, right? You're not behind
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright a couple of housekeeping pieces before we jump into the work today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The first is for those of you that are on Facebook. You know we've started to get our Facebook group going, and it was great to see some of the shares this week, and the celebrations and the questions. I know some of you are not Facebook people I tend, when I'm a participant in groups, to not participate so much in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you get to do you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that being said, I want to remind you that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you have questions for me in between our sessions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That is the place to ask if you want to connect with each other. If you've got questions for the group, want to run some ideas by, etc., etc., please use that right, that that is there for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): couple of other just little reminders, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for those of you who came to the get it done. Session last Friday. It was great to see you. And I was really excited about all of the work that got done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have another get it done session this week, as we have every week. With inval, it'll be your first get it done. Session with invol.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Usually those sessions are on Fridays, but this week it's on Tuesday, it's tomorrow at 12 Eastern. So I just wanted to make note of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the third thing I wanted to make note of is you know there are a whole lot of bonuses for this program, so you may not have even taken note of all of them. But there's one that I wanted to pull out, which is, you get 3 months membership
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to I guess it's a software you would call it called coaching Jeannie
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and coaching Jeannie is a software that you can use
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and try out for this 3 month trial as a platform to house. When once you deliver your programs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, where do the recordings go? Where do the worksheets go? Where does schedules go? etc., etc. So coaching. Jeannie is a software that you can use.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the things that I really like about coaching Jeannie also is that you can use it for your one on one clients. So if you are, have giving one on one clients homework, they can submit homework through coaching Jeannie Group. Homework as well, which I think is kind of cool. It's got lots of different features.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It even has a if you don't want to use phase Facebook as a group for your course. It has a feature where you, your whole group, can connect there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't use coaching Jeannie right now, but it's so amazing that I'm thinking of jumping over there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm bringing this up now for a couple of reasons. Number one. You don't have to take advantage of that trial membership. You might have a platform that you love, or you might not be ready for a platform, and that's fine. But if it's something that you wanna check out. It's there for you. And over the next couple of weeks we'll be sending out an email where you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): log in and check it out and see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and also, and I'll be sending out an email on this. But I wanted you to know right now. On December twelfth. from 2 to 3 Eastern Melana Lishinski, who is the creator of coaching Jeannie, will get on to zoom with all of us and share more about the software and how to use it, and how to really get the most out of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you might be like me, which is to say, technologically challenged.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you are, you might need a tutorial. So that's what that is there for?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kara's asking, what do I use now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in ball? You might know the answer to that. Is it memorium that we use? I don't see. This is how Tech challenged I am. I don't even know what software we use. I think it's memberium, though
Inbal Sansani: we use infusionsoft or keep. But you don't actually use that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, but not for the the member center. Oh, the member Center is on Wordpress. It's on Wordpress. There you go. I think we have a plugin called Membirium, too. That goes along with it. I'll find out for sure, Tara, though.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. with all of that said
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we get into the meat of today's call, I'd love to hear from a few of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on how it's going with the articulating of the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beginning and end of your hero's journey? Is there something that you want to celebrate? Is there something that you want to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have time to even workshop, if you're like. I think I got it. But you know I'd I'd love to kind of go over it. I think that would be helpful for everybody. We can kinda workshop it for one of you the beginning and the end. I'd love to hear what's coming together. And what you're starting to see from our work over this last week.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or maybe what you're starting to see about the scope of your program as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who'd like to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): celebrations? Questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer.
Jennifer: Hey, Joanna?
Jennifer: I'm having. I would love to workshop with you. I'm actually having some Internet issues. So I can't pull up my program. But I wanted to celebrate that.
Jennifer: I worked on it. And it's I haven't. You know. II feel like I dusted it off. And I haven't looked at it in a while, just because I'm like, Oh, yeah, like, I got it like no problem, and it was really nice to go through it and do the hero's journey.
Jennifer: and just get really stoked, and see like
Jennifer: how I've evolved.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, you've been on your own journey. Beautiful.
Jennifer: and I love it.
Jennifer: It's also interesting how that's been. Kind of a bit of a resistance point for me. Some like, Oh, I'm evolving so much that
Jennifer: oh, I'll just like have to wait. I'll have to wait. I'll have to wait, and it's like no, it's time to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): put it out there. That's right. Yeah, it can always change moving forward. And curricula do change. They are evolving just like us. We only change them every day. I don't mean that. Yeah. But at a certain point we have to say, Okay, this is what I got. And this is what I'm starting to put out there. So yay, those are big celebrations. And if you sense that you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your Internet, is stable and we have time, I'm going to take some of your hands raised. But if we don't workshop someone by then we can absolutely
Jennifer: workshop what you've got going on. Okay, cool. Yeah. It's kind of coming up slow. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, great thanks. Great
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Margalite.
Margalit Grunberger: Hi, there, alright. So I'm taking advantage of
Margalit Grunberger: this group in you.
Margalit Grunberger: I've started stuff like this before the hero's journey and my resistance is to play, and I don't know. I don't know who she is. I do that really. Well, yeah.
Margalit Grunberger: So I have like 12 sentences of where she starts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that helpful to just yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's see if you really don't know if I have a feeling is not true. Let's see what you got there, and if I see places to pull more out, I'll ask you before. You read the beginning of the journey. If you you know as much as you know what is your course about.
Margalit Grunberger: I. My clients are generally women entrepreneurs. There is some point of starting, growing or exiting their businesses. I I'm I say, I'm a business coach
Margalit Grunberger: and mess with your mind coach. and one of my lines is, our emotional state is an invisible line on our financial statements. Okay, so I'm like a neuroscience nerd in a business.
Margalit Grunberger: I tended to work with women, 50 plus more or less 40 and recently younger
Margalit Grunberger: women.
Margalit Grunberger: So I'm completely confused on well, that's what I say, okay.
Margalit Grunberger: And they tend to like. II
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I tend to look at like what are the testimonials? So one of them said, I found my inner badass again, and when issues come up. I don't freak out anymore. Stuff like that. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know if that helps, it does. It feels like there's there, you know, will work to get more clarity on results of the course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But let's start. Yeah, start with more. Tell us more of what you have in terms of the beginning of the journey.
Margalit Grunberger: Okay? So when I said main problems, what do they have in common common beliefs and fears? She doesn't know what to do next with her business. Her business is growing, and she needs help with the growing pains.
Margalit Grunberger: She's overwhelmed. She doesn't know what to do. First, her business partner and or her team aren't communicating. Well. she's scared. She doesn't want life to pass her by and just work.
Margalit Grunberger: She knows she needs help, and she doesn't know how to get it.
Margalit Grunberger: She knows she can't do it alone.
Margalit Grunberger: She wants to be more at peace. She thinks she needs to know what she's doing.
Margalit Grunberger: She moves too fast. She doesn't know how to slow down, she thinks still means stop.
Margalit Grunberger: and then she allows her outside world to determine her inner experience. And this is the piece I want to teach or coach on, and I wrote, but it's a bit out there
Margalit Grunberger: like it. Say that last part again. That's out there that to teach that.
Margalit Grunberger: you know it's your inner experience that determines everything. Your inner world determines everything in life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And do you think it's 2 out there. How come
Margalit Grunberger: good question.
Margalit Grunberger: I think, cause I don't know.
Margalit Grunberger: I don't know how to like II don't know how to describe it like I tend to in my coaching. Say, you don't have to believe all your thoughts. Is that true? And
Margalit Grunberger: I take that back. My clients do understand that. Yeah. The ones who are really my people, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's okay. If it's out there for everybody else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And it's okay, leading up to a program, you know, in the marketing of it, to also do a little education and mythbusting around some things right to get them closer to like, oh, yeah, I do believe that. You know inner experience is so key. But I yes, to what you just said. It's for it's for your people, only right and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. So I was taking some notes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I didn't get everything down, but I was taking some notes as you were sharing, and you have a lot of really great information about the beginning of the journey that I think also hints at the end of the journey and what they're going to receive by the time they're done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let me tell you just II might not get the whole thing, but from the notes that I took.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me tell you what I'm hearing, based on how you outlined the beginning of the journey, that really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Whoever goes through this program, whether it's that beginner that you mentioned, or that more experienced, or the person who's even considering leaving
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): their business.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The reason why they would take your course is so that they can get clear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what their next steps are that they can feel confident as they get clearer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what those next steps are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They can have a vision of what's next that feels right for them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They would take your course so that as they get clear, and as they create this vision and execute this vision. They can meet the like, the words user. They're growing pains. With grace, right? Maybe tending to the fears and the beliefs that might hold them back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and they also deep what they deeply want, and part of what I'm guessing you will. Another thing that you'll teach them in the course is how to do all of this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): without overworking and without being so overwhelmed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and finding more of that sense of peace
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and slowness inside of them.
Margalit Grunberger: Am I getting all of that? Right? Oh, perfect, beautiful. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, great. So where
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you could possibly go a little bit deeper in the beginning and the end, which will just help with marketing and also inform some of what we're gonna look at today, which is what comes in the middle of the beginning and the end.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would love for you to articulate a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you articulated one belief, but I would like for you to articulate a little bit more. What is woman
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): believing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the start of her journey? That is maybe not serving her so well? So you named one, and get it exactly about the the difference between the stillness and the stopping. I wanna hear some more of what the beliefs are and what the fears are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the beginning, and then how they've changed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the end!
Margalit Grunberger: How does that feel for a next step? Perfect? Yeah, no, that's good. One of the first things I think of. She thinks she has to know
Margalit Grunberger: how to do the next, like, maybe it's me. Yes, I love it beautiful. Okay, so how is all of that feeling for right now? Just what I needed? Thank you. I'm gonna re listen to it. I'm not gonna move. I'm just gonna sit here and not do anything. Yeah, you got it. Can we both agree? You actually know more than you thought you did. Thank you. Really helpful thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Michael in.
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): Hi, Joanna! I'm
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): I've got a beginning spot, and I've got the ending spot, and I'm I've got a lot of the stuff in between. And what's what I'm wrestling with is, where do I actually begin?
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): Because I'm wanting to kind of begin a little deeper into the
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): process than I was because it feels like it has more
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): depth and more appeal, and in over giving which, as I presented
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): and into the dubs. thank you.
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): the starting place is often resentment or burnout for someone who's over giving. and it can get worse from there.
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): But I'm I'm wondering about like the first step into my solution, which is becoming aware of
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): the equal exchange concept that I talked about like
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): that. We kind of set it up the way we want to set it up, and I don't know if that's too far into solution to be a good starting place.
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): I need to stick with resentment and burnout as this as the starting place, like for a lead magnet, and or talking about things and giving away free information.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense? It does.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, 2 things. First of all, I'd want to see. And maybe you can share this in the Facebook group, the ending point
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): all the end points cause, I think that might inform that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): intuitively.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II think there, there does need to be something before that that gives them a baseline
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be able to even see those like you saying those resentments, the anger, the ways that they're over giving. Now you can do that in an intro you'd have to spend a ton of time on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I do think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if someone's done work with you before, or is well versed in some of these things. There, there, you do need to have that you can choose to put it into your intro. We'll get into intros in a few weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can choose to have it as a first step in your methodology, or you can choose to have it as a priest. Step
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like a recording that people listen to before they star.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So is that enough to think about for right now? Yeah, I think so.
Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Hi, Joanna,
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): so I just want to name that I'm
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): this course that I'm that I'm feeling really called to create is, it's not outside my wheelhouse at all, but it is. At the same time, it's like
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): it's on a different level. Or if it's coming at
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): the ideas and the processes that I've already been doing
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): with people and working with for a long time from a really different angle. And so, therefore I don't really know what I'm doing, and I don't really know who my person is, because
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): I'm I don't yes, necessarily. Yet see the the direct connection between this course and what I
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): normally do with people, and have been doing with people. And and I'm really like comfortable and good at doing with people. And so I don't know if this is a different audience altogether, or if this is like a broader audience, and some of these people will become my ideal clients for the other work as well.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): and I and I, I'm kind of okay with not knowing that just yet. Yeah, I just wanted to say it out loud and like, Have that be witness, because my
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): One of my main resistance archetypes is is sort of like a spin on the confused one. Where I get I get. I become convinced that I don't actually know anything at all. And I can't even remember what
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): I was thinking yesterday, or what you know what I mean. So II just it felt important to sort of just on that, and just say that so that it can be like in the space energetically.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I'm so glad that you did I'm so glad that you're willing to be in the mystery, and I'm so glad, you know, for you, and I think you're also helping others normalize. It's okay not to know all of the things. And that is part of that linear, slash cyclical journey that I keep on talking about, even though you haven't given
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): specific details. You gave a few more in the chat last week, I think. But II can feel, Courtney, that you know enough to keep on going with the process. We're working here and help you fill in whatever blank spots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. Open spots you've got.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Yeah, I think so, too. It just felt important to like say it so that there's been accountability, so that I'm not tempted to just be like, oh, well, I'm not ready. I guess I may as well just disappear, you know.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): And then and then also, I'm thinking now that I'm saying it out loud to you. I'm thinking about a conversation that inball and I had before
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): this course started about because I also need to
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): develop other
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): story based work that I and like, specifically, craft based work. That I've been doing with writers for a long time into an actual program instead of just a thing that I do spontaneously with people. And Info had suggested that maybe I'm developing them side by side as we go through the course, and and II
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): feel like that might help me to get clarity about what's the same and what's different between the 2 things. But also I don't know I would love feedback from you on, if that seems like too big of a bite to
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): you know, Chomp off at once.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know what's best for you, and how your brain works best, and your time and and your process. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll save that. So there's there are many truths, and you have your truth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That being said
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in general, it's easier to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like to focus on one thing while still holding space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for another, and maybe jotting down inspired ideas as they come through, and maybe at some point it'll like all come together. Then you start working on both. But I would encourage you unless
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it that this just doesn't feel right in your truth, to kind of to to drill down on the like, really focus on the one while lightly holding space.
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): Got it. Yeah, I have a lot of documentation of of what I've done in the past with the other stuff. And and I guess I'm thinking, like, maybe just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): going back through that and figuring out like, what might I pull over? What might I adapt? I love, I love that idea. Go review it. See what you wanna what feels fresh and alive now, knowing you can come and pull those, knowing that you can come back to the
Courtney Reed-Marsh (they/them): thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know there are other hands raised. We're gonna have time for a lot more shares and a lot more questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for right now I wanna, I wanna keep on going, and then we'll we will have a time to answer everybody's questions and hear everybody shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There was one note that I wanted to make. That's kind of a little outside of what we're looking at today. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Robin asked about it in the Facebook group, and I've heard echoes of this question from some others of you, and I thought, Oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've heard it a couple of times now. So I wanna kinda just take a minute and share on it, and it has to do with program structure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Which we'll get to in about a month from now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But the question that I've heard a few iterations of is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a shorter program now a 10 week program, a 12 week program. And I wanna make it into a longer program. I wanna make it into a 9 month program or a year long program, whatever it is. And I'm really excited to expand it out. But I'm getting stuck, because, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with an expanded program that's 9 month, or 10 months, or 12 months, I'm thinking. Should I divide it into 3 parts that people can either take separately or they can take the whole thing. You know. How, how, how should I do this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I wanted to just speak to that for a moment, as both as a program model and also as a business model.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll start here. There's no one right way right? There's many, many different ways which is is so beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I just wanna speak to like generally
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having a course that's longer that you divide into. You know, people can take the section
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then they can buy this section or they can come in, you know, or they can buy all 4, and I'm gonna make it mix and match and all the things it can sometimes work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But in general it poses a lot of challenges.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It poses, challenges on the curriculum level, because it's kind of a bit of stop and starting right every time the next section where new people come in start.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you need to backtrack to some of the things you spoke about before. Can you start where you're at? You know there's some container questions to, you know, welcoming people into containers and letting them out of containers. Right? So there's a lot there's it's not that it can't be done, but they're definitely more curriculum and container hurdles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then there are more marketing hurdles. you're constantly marketing right? You're marketing when this part is starting, and then you're marketing. When the next part, and you're marketing with the next part now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): every now and again. It's the exact right model that's gonna fit so well for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know from experience that sometimes when people are going from a shorter program to their epic, longer heart of hearts program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they start to ask these questions about dividing it up, not because it's aligned to divide it up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but because of fear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fear that people aren't going to buy the longer program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so if this is a question that you're grappling with right now, I'd have you first. Look there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because we don't wanna set up a program, especially one that is like a year long, your heart of heart work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we don't want to set it up from a place of fear. right? We only wanna kind of divide it into those sections. If truly it it makes sense for the learning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We sometimes think it's gonna be easier to sell a three-month program than a year-long program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes that's the case. But oftentimes it's not. It still takes a ton of marketing to to have someone register for a 12 week program, or as much as a 12 month program in some cases.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's number one. I you know, if this is something that's on your mind, I would have you thinking about. And then I just wanted to kind of share maybe a different way of thinking about it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is what we do in sacred depths, which is you know, kind of my my
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): signature program. It's 10 months long. Many of you have been through it here. So you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what we do in sacred depths is to the full program is 10 months, and we call it master. The mastery level. Right? So you get the whole epic experience in the 10 months.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but because I know that some people aren't ready for the full 10 months.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or maybe don't even need the full 10 months.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They take that back. Everybody needs the full 10 months, but then maybe they're not ready for it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have a second level. So the second level is the foundations level where you can buy just the first 4 months of the program, you get all of the foundational transformational skills.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Most people like 90% plus purchase the full program.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we have the the 4 month. Well, I don't even mark it. Just the 4 month, the first 4 months of it, but it kind of just we have it in our back pocket for someone who's not ready
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for it. It's on the sales page, too, but I don't speak about it a lot. Most people by the fall.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then for the few people that buy the first 4 or 5 months they have the option to continue with the program. Once they're done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): almost everybody who buys the first 4 or 4 months, 4 or 5 months continues. Now they don't get as great of a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): rate on it, you know, if they decide to upgrade grade later. Right? But I do have that worked in because it is a long and epic program. That being said, I also have plenty of year long programs where it's just you buy the year or you don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We can talk at some point marketing where maybe you want to have a 3 session or a 4 session smaller class
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a lead in to your bigger program, right? If you're scared that people need a bigger taste than just a preview call.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would recommend something like that for some of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But II really want you to think twice and 3 times before splitting your bigger program up, because it's not gonna be if you're doing it, cause you think it's gonna be easier? It's probably not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I'm gonna let that kind of simmer. And if any, if there are any questions on that again, like later in the call. We can can look more at that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But for now I wanna continue going with what? We started last week. So once you have a clear starting point, an ending point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the next thing you want to do it's very logical is to start to get clear on what's actually now happening between the beginning and the end
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the journey?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? What are the actual steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): step by step by step by step.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that your hero will go on in your course or in your retreat, whatever it is. or in your workshop to get from the beginning to that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I want to point out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that for as unique as your beginning and ending points are that you have articulated, or you're in the process of articulated.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Probably you're not the only person out there in the the.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, however, thousands or millions of people that are offering courses to have those beginning and ending points. Now, because you're here in life changing courses. There's probably very few others, because of the kind of the more specific questions I'm asking you around beliefs and fears and all of that. But still there are gonna be others.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is not bad news. This doesn't mean that your course can't stand out. because there are actually numerous pathways and routes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get from any one starting point
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to any one ending point.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Your curriculum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is your thought leadership, your way of getting from the starting point
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the ending point. It makes some similar steps to some other courses out there. But it's not gonna be the same exact one. It's going to be a different route.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that is what even more distinguishes you and your thought leadership, and makes your course or your retreat or your workshop.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but like the the special sauce that is the combination of your brilliance and your experience and your expertise. etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, for example, if, as you're articulating.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're beginning and ending points. You're starting to see that you know what the what your program is really about is how spiritual women can find a soul mate that fulfills them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the the steps that you are gonna have someone go on to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): find a soul mate that fulfills them is going to be different than the steps. Another course leader might take them on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or if, as you're getting clear on the beginning and the end, you're seeing that your course is really about how athletes can avoid injuries and maintain back help.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even if you went to the same exact. I don't know physical therapy school as someone else who is offering this course.
There are gonna be different ways that you're teaching and supporting athletes to avoid injuries and have back health
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than someone else. Right and the as we articulate curriculum and the steps on the journey. That's the process of finding out what's unique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you with me so far on that. Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our next staff. And again, even if you didn't fully complete week one homework unless you didn't do it at all. You take take a stab at it. But even if you don't have all the pieces, you can continue now to the second piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): which is to get clear on each of the steps. and I wanna break this process down for you a little bit more and give you some tips to think about as you articulate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the different steps in your course, in your hero's journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): First and foremost.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you start to lay out the steps, there's there's small chance they might come out perfectly on the first try. If you are like you are a miracle right? Likely it's not going to happen that way
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I put together curriculum. I do at least
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 or 3 drafts, if not more. And later in the call, I'm actually gonna go through what each of my drafts are. Okay, because they're each a little different.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't put a ton of pressure
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on any of this to be perfect. You will get stuck
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna remind you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that this is an experiment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that curriculum development is a creative process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's a creative process. And so in creation we have to be willing to get messy. We have to be willing to write it down, even if we don't think it's the best idea and possibly cross it out. Later.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Perfection is anathema to creativity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I just wanna pause on that for a moment, because even if we know it. we don't always feel it right, or we don't always remember it. but truly it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I want to just tell you a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): quick story that hopefully will be inspiring around this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When I went to college. I was an art history, major.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I loved the history of art and analyzing art and all all things visual arts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And but I was a terrible artist. I like to look at other people's art, but not make my own. And so my first semester of college, I thought, you know what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if I'm really gonna do this art history thing, I should take an art class right? It, you know, kind of maybe important just to whatever. And so I took drawing 10101, and I will never forget the first day of class we were asked to bring a certain size. Notepad with white paper on it. It was a pretty big notepad. I don't remember the exact size and some pencils
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I came to the first class. The teacher's name was Professor Ball. I will never remember it. Martin Ball and with this big scary notebook
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): notepad with nothing on it. It was so pristine and perfect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I was a little like I don't think I can do this class, you know, coming into the first day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and anyway, pretty soon after we got into the class, Professor Ball said, Okay, we're gonna draw. I don't know whatever it was fruit today or whatever he had for us to drive, he said. But before we draw, this is what we're gonna do.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Want you to take a piece of paper out of your notepad and rip it out and class was like, Okay, fine. And then he said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and now I want you to take that big piece of paper and crumple it up into the tiniest ball possible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're like, what is sky talking about? But okay, we all crumpled the piece of paper up, and then he said, now I want you flatten out the piece of paper and put it on the floor and stamp all over it and get it kind of dirty.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, what's going on here, but we all did it. And now he said, Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the piece of paper is ready for you to start doing your first drawing. It is no longer perfect. it is no longer pristine. So you don't have to worry about messing it up when you draw.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna invite each of you to really to apply this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you move through this process. Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're no perfection here whatsoever.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that first draft. Also, as you go to lay out your steps. Don't worry about the order of the stacks. Does this come? First site, you know, first is, just get it all out. Whatever ideas come to you whether they're good, whether they're not good, whether they make sense, whether they don't make sense. Don't try not to filter it at all. You know. Just write them down first draft.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then you can edit
afterwards.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How do you come up with what the steps are?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, there are a couple of things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I encourage you to think about all of these things.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): less cognitive, more from the heart, from the body, from the spirit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes I see steps visually. I always close my eyes, and I say to myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are what are some? If I was, you know, like if somebody was going on this journey. What are the some of the things they might do? I might see a ritual. I might see a process I might. A an idea might come up right? So some of it is, just let it rise to the surface.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): However, it wants to rise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): another way. to start to come up with steps on the journey. Look to how you've solved this, either for yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or you've helped one on one. Clients. Solve this. What are some of the steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you've gone through to have better back health, to find your soul mate to be less overwhelmed, and you may not know at first it might just be like, Oh, well, I'm just less overwhelmed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take some time to think about it. Right? Did you have to start by becoming aware of your overwhelm and all the ways that it was impacting you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? It was that one of the staff
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): did you have to go through and kind of work with some of the fears around what it might be. If you actually slowed down, everything would fall apart, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? Did you have to get an accountability partner and someone who could help you. You know that you that you set that helped you with your schedule. Or oh, I didn't go over time today, right? Whatever it is. Think back to how you solved it for yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or how you've helped your one on one client. Solve this. You will find a lot of your steps there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Another kind of just related piece to this is. put yourself in the situation. Envision what you would do in the situation right? So put yourself in there. So, for example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let's say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one of the promises of your course is for people to stop reacting so much to the people and circumstances around them, and instead start responding to them right? So put yourself in that situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where are the places that I often react instead of respond. What are some of the circumstances that allow me to respond
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): instead of react?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are the lessons that I've learned that help me respond
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): instead of reacting. Likely those are going to be some of your staff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll give you one other example. Let's say part of what your course is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): promising is greater creativity and self-expression.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Put yourself in this situation. Ask yourself what are my own blocks to creativity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or where? What are my clients walks to creativity? Where do I get stuck
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the creative process? What helps me
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): go back into flow when I'm stuck in the creative process? Right? Put yourself in it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Let me pause there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear some thoughts on what's coming up so far. What's feeling important so far, either on perfection or stats, or questions that you have. And, Carlita, I don't know who else had their hand up. If if your share was relevant to this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): let me know, Carlita, would it make sense to have your share now or later.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: relevant specifically to wedding
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the pieces that I just spoke about perfection. Creative process, articulating steps. No, okay, so it's still gonna hold you for later.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: you know. Can you put your hand down? And I promise you I'll
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be there, Tina, you might be on mute.
tina ghahramani-singh: Oh, can you hear me now? Yeah.
tina ghahramani-singh: thank you so much. Definitely. I was feeling major resistance because I've done courses before. And I guess, like I said last time. I think my audiences are changing every so often, because, like I said, II do a lot of you know, birth work. And but now I really want to gear more towards like
tina ghahramani-singh: kind of like getting into the passage of the chrome or the early chrome. And so I'm a little stuck because I'm changing as a 42 year old woman. I don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't wanna do anything to do with my fertility. Expect expertise whatsoever. I'm like, you know what I mean. I'm just that. What feels fresh and cutting edge for you. Right it. It's reflecting your own journey is the chrome piece make so much sense. So what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are you feeling stuck on? And what do you need help with? What's I guess?
tina ghahramani-singh: Yeah, that's a great question. I guess. I don't know how to narrow down my
tina ghahramani-singh: my hero, who like who I know her qualities, but I don't know if I need to have a certain group that's my target hero, does that make sense?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you mean age wise or yeah, age, wise stage of life. You know what I mean. Yeah. It's such a great question. I don't know the answer. But here's here's what I would suggest.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Put that aside for now come back to it after you articulate your stats.
tina ghahramani-singh: Okay, and see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): can these steps apply to any age
tina ghahramani-singh: or a particular age? Or am I wanting them? You know, I thought it would be any age, but I actually want them to apply to a particular age.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if so, then that, and then you may have to add another step or 2 in there, if it's just for a specific age. But if you're not sure yet, and you have enough other common factors for the journey and the end of the journey. Don't, don't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): get stuck there, you know. Keep on going, lay out the steps, and then go back and say, Okay, yeah, that's really helpful. Because I was like, if I don't even know my hero, how am I supposed to do this? But then I just let that resistance kind of stop the process I appreciate. That's why I'm saying, like, Keep up, keep on going, because it's cyclical, cyclical, not linear. And I know somebody else needed to hear that, too.
tina ghahramani-singh: Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Essie. Aye.
Essie Richards: Hi, I am so noticing this week, after really loving last week, just really getting loads of ideas out. Just how flooded I am with perfectionism.
Essie Richards: And I think partly, it's sort of like a throwback to school, where I would just get so overwhelmed with ideas, and then just not like know how to get it down. But I think because I was always had such a high expectation
Essie Richards: of myself. So I was kind of like. just whatever I did just wasn't good enough. I can see I'm already discounting all the stuff I did
Essie Richards: last week. I'm like that, wasn't it?
And partly because
Essie Richards: I'm about to take over a community, a membership community.
Essie Richards: I'm about to take it over or buy it from someone who's just been incredibly successful. And her course content is
Essie Richards: so good. And so I'm slightly feeling like, Oh, my God! Like I was really up for the challenge. And now I'm sitting here just like, Oh, my God!
Essie Richards: How do I get through the feelings in my body to to actually
Essie Richards: get the stuff out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So first, I'm so happy that you're naming it right and aware that the perfectionism is having you discount all of the amazing things that already came out this week, and also everything from before right? So keep that in your awareness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The buying of this group sounds very exciting to me. I can't wait to hear more on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna remind you that because you've been through sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You actually know what to do with the feelings in your body. I really wanna encourage you to do a befriend your fear process with yourself, or have another sacred depth.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Partner, that you know you're connected with help. You identify the fear and then move through the somatic process on that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know it's cause. I know if I the fear is there. And also I know you're gonna be able to move forward with it.
Essie Richards: That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. Let's keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tara, go ahead
Tara Sage: very quickly. II just wanna say that
Tara Sage: I appreciate all of this, and I'm getting so much at once. The steps you you keep. You use the word steps and
Tara Sage: that organizes for me in a way that is very linear. and
Tara Sage: on one hand, I very much appreciate linear. And I also am intentionally coming into the program I'm creating to
Tara Sage: embody the author that I am, and the Bull Breaker brand. Right? Rule means bullshit rule for anyone who doesn't know and so I'm gonna be organizing my steps
Tara Sage: into chapters
Tara Sage: that can be revisited, because many of them are an upward spiral. Helix kind of keep coming back to them.
Tara Sage: Like the opening chapter will be.
Tara Sage: I'm seeing it as something that the group
Tara Sage: a 12 month group revisits every quarter.
Tara Sage: you know, because where am I? Is like
Tara Sage: the most powerful question to keep coming back to and be honest about to get where you want to go, like
Tara Sage: you can't get to Point B, if you don't really know where point A is, and so there's just a lot. And I just wanted to share that in case that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inspired anything or and just to say, Thank you. Yes, I'm so happy that you're bringing it into the conversation. I think that won't be helpful for a lot of people I love the I never, you know. Sometimes I say you can think of it as pillars, or think of it as topics. I've never heard chapter, and I love that as well, and it feels. So you, Tara also. So that's awesome. And yes, you're speaking again to this thing that I keep on saying about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some. We have to lay things out, you know, linearly, somewhat. But we always wanna think about the the journey as cyclical.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We didn't have time today. Cause I always and I will look more at this also. I always put into any one day curriculum more than I can fit, and I see where we're gonna go. We didn't have time today, but we were going to do an exercise about coming back to the belief from last week.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't worry everybody. We'll do it next week, I promise right, but that's like another example. It can be every quarter. Or whenever you want to come back, you wanna come back to old ideas. You don't only want to move forward onto the next. So thanks. So much for sharing all of that. And I'm so excited about what's coming through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna keep on going, and then I'll take a few more. I'll take more questions afterwards and just wanna get to a few more pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, what I'm about. what I'm gonna share next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is so obvious. But it's something that we forget. And it's so important when it comes to creating curriculum creating exercises which we'll look at in a few weeks, all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Slow it down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because you're an expert at what you do, and all of you are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what the steps move quickly in your mind. This and this and this and this and this right, even if you haven't fully articulated all of them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But for your hero for the participants of your program. They're not experts
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at this journey yet. They don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The best curricula are the ones that slow down the journey and really connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): identifying the details.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): articulating the connective tissue
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that it's not disjointed step to step to step. or else the hero might miss out on some of the transformation. The gold is in the slowing it down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in the details
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): very similar. By the way, to what I'm doing today, right? I could just have a 5 min lesson on after you get from, you know, point the first and the beginning. Fill in the steps right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I'm getting into the details of what filling in the steps mean.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So within any given step that you articulate there may also be steps within that step. Awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The details are where your thought leadership is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's really where your unique experience and expertise comes into play.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's usually where the transformation for your hero lies.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to give you an example
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In my sacred depths. transformation, transformational practitioner training.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We look at lots of different. As I was saying, earlier foundational skills and then more advanced skills for supporting clients and transformation. And one of the foundational skills that we learn in sacred depths is listening skills.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Listening skills is one of the steps on my hero's journey
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and sacred depths.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So in most practitioner trap trainings out there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): teaching listening skills is pretty standard. and it's also pretty standard in most trainings out there to teach people what to listen for.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Listen for that. Right? As a practitioner, you want to listen for beliefs, you want to listen for inner state, you want to listen for cut right, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this is important to teach people what to listen for. We include that in sacred day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's so many big things and subtle things to listen for when you're listening to clients. But that being said. what makes the way that I teach listening skills in sacred depths
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so transformational and effective for the people in it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is because I get to the details within the details. So, for example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before I teach about all the different things to listen for right? Which I said is like more standard
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before we even get to that. We go into into all. We go into all of the emotional, energetic, and psychic blocks
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that a practitioner or a human being might have when they're witnessing a client or another human being and listening. We do deep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the how to open your ears and your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be able to listen for all of these different things to listen for. Right. It's it's a detail, but it loads people away in the program, and it makes all the difference
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for people to be able to listen way more deeply to their clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense what I'm saying? I'll give you another example
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna give you. I'm so excited because I'm gonna share my screen, which I don't often do. And I'm gonna give you even a visual of this cause. I think it will be helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can make it happen. Hold on a sec.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm. Nope. hold on a sec.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Now let me do this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, here we go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you all see this? This is just a course that I made up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But to kind of show steps, or, as Tara said, chapters or pillars in a journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's say you have a course that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is titled Menopausal and magnificent, how to look and feel radiant as your hormones change.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you've identified that there are 5 main steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for your hero to get to this feeling of menopausal and magnificent and radiant as their hom hormones change. Maybe you've decided. The first step is to redefine what health, beauty, and radiance means in menopause, because it might mean something in earlier years. Then it does right. And and it's important for your hero to redefine it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe the second step is learning how to manage blood sugar, because that can really help feel radiant. Maybe the third step is, master your nervous system and get regulated cause that really helps with form. By the way, II this is not my expertise. I totally made this. These may not be steps at all. Maybe the fourth is detox your environment and detox yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the fifth, embrace your inner queen in that stage of your life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, all fine and good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): here's where the power is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in slowing down and getting to the details. Right? So let's go back to step one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): redefining health beauty in radiance and menopause. It would be nice to do an exercise in this section that supports clients to define a new vision of health.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beauty, and radiance and menopause. But what would really hit this out of the park would be to slow it down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to first talk about why, it's important to redefine health.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beauty and radiance and menopause. And then maybe from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): help people in the program identify what their old definitions of health, beauty, and radiance are. You know, they've been working off off of that may no longer work for them. They may not be the most aligned definitions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And maybe the next step is to help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you continuing to slow it down. Help your people create awareness around those old definitions. Where did they come from? Did they come from? The patriarchy did read like from parents? What is it? How did those beliefs impact. How did they make you feel about yourself?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, maybe from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): help people see what's holding them back from letting go of those old definitions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then do the exercise on creating a new vision, a new definition of health.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beauty, and radiance right? And then you could even take it further.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Bring it to the somatic level. What would it feel like if you were living this new definition? If you really believed it, what would be different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you if you were to fully step into this noon definition.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So we wanna we wanna slow it down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some questions that can help slow it down, and this is all in your homework sheet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are the actions required to get to this solution or within this stack? What are the new beliefs required to get to the solution.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are the energies required?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me pause there, thoughts or questions. On slowing it down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer, is your hand raised on this.
Jennifer: it it is. I have kind of a a fun kind of cool tip for this is that okay to share
Jennifer: I, got this from another mentor. But she said, to write the steps like, essentially what you're saying, you know the the big monumental parts right, that have helped us
Jennifer: on index cards.
Jennifer: and then, like, lay them out on the ground, and then, like physically, take a step forward and be like, Okay, well, what's next? And you kind of lay out like a little patio
Jennifer: with an index cards, and then you can rearrange them from there like. Well, what was for be before before this. And what comes after this before that other big stone. And yeah, I was just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, the that kind of putting your body in that journey itself, so you can either do it by closing your eyes and imagining moving through the, or actually physically moving through the journey. Yeah, I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing I recommend is lots of stickies that you can like, put and rearrange and look at. All of that. Khalida
Kellita Maloof: surprised me. Thank you. I'm
Kellita Maloof: you had asked me to
Kellita Maloof: mentioned something while we were still here together, somehow related to the Monda what you shared in the Facebook group.
Kellita Maloof: Let me get to the end. And I'll answer that. Yeah, I'm really excited to share about that super. Briefly, what was shared not to go all in it, but the pies which I call the pillars
Kellita Maloof: can happen. This is on a high concept level just of
Kellita Maloof: a whole year and 9 I'm seeing 9 months somewhere, 9 to 12 could be.
Kellita Maloof: and
Kellita Maloof: of the things to some degree from the lens of the first pie.
Kellita Maloof: Everything through the stamps of the rebel or feel.
Kellita Maloof: But all the same steps, meaning the year, could be retaken with multiple people.
Kellita Maloof: either in first, second, third, or potentially fourth year, but doing the same curriculum, that's all I just wanted to. Yeah, yeah, I got it. I have some thoughts. We'll come back and hopefully even look at it together at the end. Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kristen, is your hand raised in relationship to the slowing down piece?
Kristin Halberg: Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): awesome.
Kristin Halberg: So the question is.
Kristin Halberg: so I get the whole slowing down piece for
Kristin Halberg: like a longer program. But what about like a preview? How much like can you just talk a little bit about like the difference between a preview course and a longer course and how much
Kristin Halberg: I mean, II still think this slowing down can be powerful, but you can't slow it down too much, or you won't be able to preview it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So what I'm talking about now in this session is for an actual quote. Of course, a lot of the things that we're talking about absolutely can be applied to a preview. But just for everybody I know you get this Kristen, but it's important just to say this the slowing it down, the getting to the details within the details. We're really looking at course, creation here, not marketing here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll do. And II
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): almost have a date set for an extra bonus call just on preview calls, because I know everybody is asking and interested in. That'll be a after the New Year. I think I can't remember. But anyway, I'll I'll get it out to everybody. But for now, Kristen, a little bit of it depends on how long
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the preview is. Right. So in a 90 min preview call, you're gonna probably you'll do one of 2 things. You'll either pull 3 steps
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and not get into the details within. The details. Really get into the beginning and the end of each of the many steps and explain why each of the steps are so important. Maybe give one detail for each or you might pick one step only in a preview call.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then still spend the bulk of the time articulating the beginning and the end. How how it fits into the bigger journey and then give maybe the first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 2 or 3 mini steps in there
Kristin Halberg: that make sense. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, great. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. A couple of other pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then I want to go over homework, and then we'll open up for questions and shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This goes along with the creative process, and and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering to knock the myth of perfection.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Lean into your boldness as you articulate steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let it like, if you're like. Oh, my God! That it right! An idea comes up. You're like, Oh, that's too much, or that's too outrageous, or that's too out of the box.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Write it down, anyway. Be bold! Thought leadership comes from tried and true, but it also comes from bold
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So if that idea comes up that you're just not short, put it down, anyway, even if it seems so out of the box.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other thing I wanted to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just lightly speak to today in case this was a point of resistance for anyone, because I know some of my people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you're going to do this work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're like laying out steps is all fine and good for Joanna, cause. I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she seems to really like structure, but I'm more of an organic person and an intuitive person and a flow person. And so I don't think this kind of structure step thing is gonna work for me. First of all, I want you to know. I hear you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I also want you to know, and for those of you that have done, you know, work with me before and group work with me before. You know that I'm very intuitive, and that I work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): very organically.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much happens in the teaching. There's more than enough time to work with issues
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as they come up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you create a structure. It doesn't mean that you're not meeting the moment as it comes up. It doesn't mean that you don't change the structure if it needs to. It doesn't mean that you don't go with the flow, if that's important, but it means that you do have a a pathway set for yourself, and then there's space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): within
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for twists and turns, and meeting the moment in lots of different ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And I even in just a mini mini way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it did that towards the beginning of the call, where, even though I hadn't planned today to talk about program structure, and should you divide your program into pieces or this and that. But I already heard the question a few times, and like, you know what I'm gonna put a teaching in on this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right that wasn't in my original structure for today. But it was meeting the moment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some people.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a big just one more piece on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The way I like to think about it is the curriculum is the structure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the facilitation is the intuitive open, and organic flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The curriculum is the structure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the facilitation is the intuitive open and organic flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm very fancy today, because I'm gonna share my screen. One more time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can get it to work. Hold on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. I wanted to go over this because I think it's just helpful for us to talk it out. You have this in your member center.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's homework for this week, but it's really actually homework for the next couple of weeks. Don't try to get this all done in one week, because I want you to have space. I want you to marinate in between the different kind of steps of this homework. Each piece of homework might take you a few sittings
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): adapt this to your own needs. You don't have to do this exactly the way I let it. II lay it out here. This is just one toss to how to to start to identify your solution. Your methodology, which is those steps that we've been talking about today, the chapters the pillars. So are you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Consider doing it in draft
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): draft. One is a lot of what we've been talking about so far. Identify the steps along the way be messy about it, have it? I mean this in the most positive way. Have it be a vomit of your idea like don't hold back. No filters.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just let it be messy and and things that you're not sure of, too. I know I get ideas mostly not in front of the computer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're like me, you might wanna do paper and pen for this first draft instead of typing it out. Take it away from your desk away from a screen, make a nice cup of tea, sit on the couch, brainstorm, draw it out. All the things go on a walk in between. See what wants to come through right. Have that first real messy draft
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from there. You can move on to, and that might take one sitting or a couple
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from there. Move on to draft number 2 right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now. Play with each of the steps. See if you can start to put them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into an order. Maybe some of the steps, you see, are actually all part of the same step, and you know you want to kind of group them together right now, start to play. And this is where I think, having the different post it's to to move around can be really helpful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember to have fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then maybe one another draft after that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that's where you get kind of even deeper into some of the things. So maybe the next draft you're asking
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): why is this particular step vital for my ideal client right on this particular journey?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the main point, or the main principle or philosophy behind this step or this stop on the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That that question helps for a lot of different reasons. It helps. It may help clarify even more what the step is, it might help you see how some different steps that you wrote out are actually all part of the same thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What about this step? Does my ideal client specifically need to know that that was gonna help you slow it down a bit, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this step too challenging or too basic for my ideal client. What can I tweak on that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are there steps within this staff?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does this step easily connect to the step before
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? We talked about that connect. Is this on the road. or is it an out of the way? Scenic view?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it's an out of the way scenic view, it shouldn't be in the curriculum unless it's maybe a bonus.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, if you want extra credit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can even do a draft for.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so you've got all of this in your member center.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have anything else? Yeah. Schedule in enough time. Give yourself creative space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All the things we've looked at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we have a few minutes left, and I am happy to go over for a few minutes. To answer everybody's questions before you go. I'd love for you to take a moment and write down.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's a main takeaway from our time together today? What's something that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feels really important? That's clicking for you, or that you feel excited about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tara. Usually the recordings are up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if not the evening, of, by the next day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So within the next 24 h. Kelly Singh to slow it down. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also, Christine, slow it down. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): heather. And Emily, are you? Is your hand raised to share a takeaway or to ask a question.
Heather and Emily: I wanted to share a takeaway.
Heather and Emily: So one of the takeaways that I plan to take away is
Heather and Emily: I really loved how you tied it in with the energy and because, especially with the curriculum that I'm working with.
Heather and Emily: like a lot of it is future based.
Heather and Emily: And so like there's gonna be. There's gonna be the need for a lot of somatic exercises.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, it's not just the cognitive. Yeah. And we'll go. We'll go way deeper into that as we continue on. Great! I'm so glad you're taking that away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm seeing a lot in the chat, the slowing it down the structure. And the the curriculum is the structure. Facilitation is the open organic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Paula's taking away to be messy. Slow it down, go bold. Yes, Robin's weren't clear on her structure. Good yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how is this step vital? Good, good, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Courtney's saying. Dr. Jersey Singh put myself in their position. Courtney's saying, I'm feeling into the relationship between slowing it down and not giving it into that old. I'm not enough urge to over give. Yes, we don't wanna slow it down for the purpose of over giving cause. We feel like we haven't given enough. And we need to give more details. We always wanna ask, is this vital right. Is this detail vital?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this step within the step vital? Or am I just adding more in? Because I it'll make me feel better about myself to get more right. We don't want number 2. I'm so glad you're mentioning that, Courtney.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you've got a question now is the the time. If you've got to go, go. I hope to see you in, maybe in the Facebook group this week. Let me know what you need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you want to hang on for questions, I'm here for a little bit. And, Carlita, you've been waiting patiently since the very beginning. So go ahead.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: Hi.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: I have a process that has been. Where are you? I'm gonna pay me a second, Steve.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: I have a process that's been essential to my work on one clients where it's a written, very structured sort of journaling and reflection process.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: And what I have been doing is going back to review that written stuff in a Google Doc. And I comment on it as a way of training their minds to really understand this process.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: I know.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: which is pretty good like separating the different voices, like the one voice from the actual authentic voice, and like how to dial up any place.
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: II don't. I couldn't do it in a group of 10 people. It's too much time. It takes takes a lot of time
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: and
Karlita Nabours-Palermo: 2 things already answered.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Think about doing a demo. I wouldn't do a shorter demo. I would do a full on demo of one person's, and as you go through with the whole group, explain why you're asking and making the comments right, and and ask them little questions as they're looking at. Maybe their own thing as you're doing the demo. So that's one way to do it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): another way to do it, which doesn't have to be mutually exclusive like you could could also do the demo and this or just pick one is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): slow down your process, Carlita. The next time you do this for a client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you're commenting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): write down okay, whatever like. Comment number one, why did you make that comment? Right? What are you looking for to make that comment? What is the question inside your head about the comment that's leading you to it. Those are likely the steps that you can give them for them to do it as their own process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So slow it down inside your head as you do the next couple of those, and you're going to find a lot of steps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, Khalida, you know I also promised.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me see if I can. Quick
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): find. Bring your image up for us to look at.
Kellita Maloof: You know it's gonna take me like 10 min I could share my screen. I just need probably permission from either your involl. But let me see.
Kellita Maloof: Yeah, I'm making you a co-host right now. Great. I'll share it. Yeah.
Kellita Maloof: Have it, I think. Very close. It had.
Yes, coming right up.
Kellita Maloof: Everyone cross your technical finger spirits with me. Okay.
Kellita Maloof: second.
Kellita Maloof: okay. cool.
Kellita Maloof: It's coming here.
Kellita Maloof: You'll see a messy desktop just for a second. and here comes up.
Kellita Maloof: Oh, come up, little thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you can't get it real quick. I don't. It's fine to take someone else, and I'll I'll have it up in a second. Okay, that sounds great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kristen. I also know you had a question in the very, very beginning.
Kristin Halberg: Yeah, I mostly wanted to get your thoughts on. I'm kind of changing my my, who I serve potentially to reluctant leaders.
Kristin Halberg: And I feel very strongly that I am a reluctant leader, and I don't know if I'm all alone in the world, or if other people have it, and some people have been commenting that they can relate with it.
Kristin Halberg: but but so that I just want I just wanted to like. Put that out there and get your feedback. You you've worked with me for your years. I think you know the reluctant, leaner archetype. I don't think you're the only one at all. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I yeah, II love. I love the idea. I think it makes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much sense for you and your expertise, and you understand. So I think intimately the the struggles and the strengths and the desire. You know all of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I love that I'm excited that that's evolving.
Kristin Halberg: Thank you.
Kristin Halberg: That was it. Yeah.
Kristin Halberg: thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just, I'm gonna toss this because it just came up for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. Cause. Of course I'm thinking, in archetypes, as you know, so like, if the reluctant leader is who your hero is at the start of the journey, let's come up with an archetype
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of leader of who they are at the end of the journey.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Like right now, you mean or no, not the second for you to think about.
Kristin Halberg: Yeah. Okay. yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Paulita, did you get it?
Kellita Maloof: Did? What
Kristin Halberg: can I ask Joanna? Like, what if? What if they're still a reluctant leader, but they just have
Kristin Halberg: embrace their reluctant leader
Kristin Halberg: and lead. Anyway, I love that question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. Is there another name? Is there like a version, A of that reluctant leader, and then a version B of that reluctant leader.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something to think about and play with.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, Kalita.
Kellita Maloof: Here she is.
Kellita Maloof: I don't. I don't know why this version has gray around the last one. But it's all this is, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, beautiful. And I wasn't even gonna comment like an audio of the specifics, anyway. But it's just so beautiful. And there, it's so wonderful. So I'm glad that you're sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first, I said this in the Facebook group. But I just want to say it again, Kalita, this is incredible. It. It just shows the breadth of your, not the bre, but the the like, your experience and your brilliance, and and how much you know, and how much you're giving and providing. And I just really wanna honor
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I heard a couple of things in your question in terms of like taking it from the 3 months to the longer, and I heard that one of the concerns is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's mostly the voi is mostly experiential, like these things get taught in different ways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but not through the the cognitive necessarily or like, now we're doing a lesson on this. And now we're doing right. It's just they all come through in the experience of it. And you know that's where the power is, and and you don't wanna lose that right? And then the second question is like, Okay, then how do I? How do I extend this into a longer?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm just tossing ideas. But you know, which may not be the idea. But hopefully it'll be helpful. I think it's really important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of all of that, to keep the experience supreme. Right? And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): again, this might not be it exactly. But what I started to think about was.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it was the same experience 3 times over, 4 times over, like, however long, is gonna fit in the thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the activities were the same each time. Someone that goes through the year long program. They're going. They're actually going through the same activities 3 times over over the year.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now, nor naturally just by doing it 3 times. And this is what you've said, Khalida. The the experience deepens, and there there's more awareness of all of these things. But what if for each of them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you added
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): each time a different level of cognitive, so that you can connect some more cognitive dots on this for people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into the same exact experience each time, so I don't know what your steps are for Boi. But, for example, let's say the first time it was reveal. I think you said that was the first one, right? So even though they're which one revel. So even though they're getting all of this the first time around.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're taking some time the first time around to do some extra teaching points on revel as they come up through the experience and some extra teaching points on drip, drip, trauma versus boom. Yeah, I'm not gonna read all the things out right and second time around. Of course, all of this again is gonna be included. But you're spending the extra like cognitive, you know, different kind of exercise time on top of just the experience itself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): going deeper into reveal. You're kind of transplanting just a little bit more onto the those standard experiences. And then again with receive. how does that land for you.
Kellita Maloof: Oh, there's so many logistical things are. Yeah, forget about the logistics. Forget about. But I think I almost I think that twice.
Kellita Maloof: once instead of 3, because it does need just feels like there needs to be some
Kellita Maloof: some integration that's more than a few days or a week. But in the integration time in between the 2, like if it's 9 months, begin with some version of the 3 months, and end with some version of the 3 months with tweaks that make sense for a year, and in between
Kellita Maloof: use some related but other.
Kellita Maloof: I love that, too.
Kellita Maloof: have a live in person. Retreat that's not required for someone to for the whole year, but that they're invited
Kellita Maloof: different in the middle, which will be in the summer, and then the more winter, spring, and fall are
Kellita Maloof: something. I mean, that's a loose, the loose draft. But
Kellita Maloof: but yeah, in a short answer, I think so. I think so. Something like that. Okay, so let it still be, you know, and and just start to play with it more and see.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, good. I think it's really exciting. I have a sense, Kalita, and we can talk more as we go on, because the experiential that you provide is so incredibly powerful. And that's like you're really big in your wheelhouse.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II do have a sense that you could lean into making some more cognitive connections and connecting some more cognitive dots, and I think you have a map for it here, but I want you to like. That's that's part of what I want you to think about as we go through week by week, and stuff like, how how can you overlay? Doesn't have to be big but little pieces of the cognitive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into the methodology that you already have, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of what makes I mean. It's so powerful in general. You've told us it's proven. But part of what makes it even more powerful for you is that you do have an understanding of this cognitive, these cognitive pieces, and I want your people to get more of that cognitive as well.
Kellita Maloof: The one thing that I'm aware of this I'm using my top hand is this is the high concept I feel like I'm really high in the way high, treetop concept, like super cosmic, and then really great in the hands on the ground. Don't even talk about it. Just move your arm and breathe this in between.
Kellita Maloof: which is quite an expanse, is where it gets.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's that's why you're here to be messy in that and articulate that. But you have. I think you already have so much more than you think you do like. II would love I. This might not be leading you in the right direction, so take it or leave it. I'd love for you to sit down with all of the like, every single thing you do in the Boi.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I know all of this fits in there, and different things fit into different pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See if you can specifically say I don't know, like subject versus object really comes through this staff.
Kellita Maloof: You know, right? Magic versus mysticism really comes through in sense. And just start to overlay some of the
Kellita Maloof: okay. Yeah. I could even do that in the one I actually just call it bio acronym, cause it.
Kellita Maloof: This means life. So. But yes, I couldn't do that in the one bio that I'll well, the last bio that I may lead
Kellita Maloof: before
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this comes into play. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Good. I want to get Kelly and Jen and I have to. I've got 7 min so hopefully I can get both of you. Kelly. Go ahead
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): alright. Thanks. I think mine is kind of quick, but you were so helpful to me at the get it done session and answering the question, and I think you know, helping me just say, like, it's okay. People are gonna get different things from the journey. And then just to focus on the steps. And so I've been working on both sort of refining my framework and deepening into that as well as the steps that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): would go into the journey. And I think where I'm getting struck right now. In discerning around the steps is because
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the scope isn't as clear. And that was that was like part of the question that was asking before. So I feel like I'm coming back to that question. And then, as I was doing your homework, and you're like, don't make it just like how to get healthy, but how busy moms can have more energy and sex drive. I don't feel like I have that, and I don't.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I don't know if I need that, but it's definitely tricky, because I feel that generality in terms of what people are coming for and what they get like. I don't have a teeny, tiny thing they walk away with. I've like 15 different examples
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): of how healing gets expressed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so I'm just. And and I know right now, Kelly, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think there are common threads with all of the examples right? And I think the thing that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what are we saying if they get it done that could hold it all together. I can't remember, I said. This is one thing that all the other things could fall under body listening. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): well, you, said Button. You know, body listing. It could all sort of fall into that. I think of it as like embodied leadership. But I feel like that's so overused. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so you can think of another name for it right? Like we're not doing marketing right now. I think it is. I think that is it I? And another term I was gonna use. And this, isn't it. But like regulated leadership,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because with embodied or regulated leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they have more peace, they have less overwhelm. They're able to make more of the impact in the ways that you know so many of the things that you have shared that. What happens for your people so
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so we can come up when I say we. You know this is not my strength, but I'm gonna help you as much as I can over. Looks like. Come up with what that term is. That's not the hack need embodied leadership.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That being said
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): words aside. I think you do know what it's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that feel right to you, or am I bypassing?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): No, III think it does. I think I just I just worry that I end up sounding too general, and I know I can help people with such specific things. But in the speaking to it, or what the specific journey is, or even breaking it down. I mean, I guess the one piece I would reflect back is the embodiment piece comes first and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then I was thinking, oh, if I were to sort of see this as the spiral like, the next piece would be like really stepping into spirit, and like infusing, you know, Shamanism and spirit into the work so like, if I root it in the embodiment piece, this is one.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): This is one beginning, not just beginning, but like beginning plays. And then we could go deeper. So that helps me kind of root it in that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, I love that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, and I'm not remembering all of the steps that you shared, and they get it done. But I do remember when I looked at them. Thinking like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is very tight. I mean room for so much to happen, but that the ideas were very tight and not too general, or all over the place. That's so helpful. And I'm gonna post a little bit of the evolution of that in the Facebook group for some feedback. But
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, okay, that's really helpful reflection back. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jen.
Jennifer: hey? So I was able to pull up my my program, and I would love to go through it, but I know that you only have like 2 min left.
Jennifer: So maybe it's just the invitation for me to
Jennifer: like keep working on it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would say, when you say, Pull up your program, you mean the whole thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): More. Just the exercise of the hero's journey in the end. Do you want to post it in the Facebook group. You wanna give it one more take and post in the Facebook group. And I'll if you do it as a Google Doc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can make comments. And it's 6 pages long
Jennifer: for the beginning and the end.
Jennifer: I'm I'm I'm in it. I'm up for it. Okay. Cause. I recognize that the end is really also
Jennifer: part of this. I started just labeling up before you post it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do this week's homework and post.
Jennifer: and I figured there was. Yeah, a reason. But I do have a question. and maybe yeah, again, it'll probably unfold. But I am debating whether or not to invite
Jennifer: all genders versus just female identified or femme.
Jennifer: So
Jennifer: yeah, you know, I see a lot of benefit and welcoming men into the conversation. I think that's like. you know, kind of like in a way so secretly. It's like, Very.
Jennifer: I think that's leadership in terms of having them hear women talk, and I know that
Jennifer: if there were men in my group it would just be a few versus it would be more dominantly female.
Jennifer: yeah, I just was wondering if you had anything to say about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. These are the some questions to be thinking about that can help you answer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this journey applicable
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to all genders?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Will women
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be able to go through the journey vulnerably if all genders are present, or what needs to be put in place for that to happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does my heart want?
Jennifer: I think there might be some like
Jennifer: filtering like I have a couple of men in mind, that would be like, Oh, yeah, absolutely. They're welcome. and maybe there's like they're not so
Jennifer: on the ends of the spectrum.
Jennifer: So yeah, if that's true, and that feels right for you. Then you put those pre qualifiers in right. So that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just like you bringing in the right type of woman, you're bringing in the right type of person, no matter what gender they are, are. And you're putting those pre-qualifiers in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it about those men that would make them ideal for this journey. Articulate that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then see how that feels.
Jennifer: Yeah, safety is really important in this particular. I mean all journeys. The vulnerability piece. Right? So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, is that enough to go on for now?
Jennifer: Yeah, if you have anything else, I'm open.
Jennifer: Okay, I'll I'll kind of quickly. It's just so easy to just make it just for women. But it's like something is inviting me. I do. I think the next step is to articulate. Who is that person? You know?
Jennifer: It's funny, like the I have a male client, and it's awesome, and he's not. He's heterosexual, but I think of like who would be great. And it's like certain Homo sexual men that I've coached that I'm like, oh, they'd be perfect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like, well, it's kind of different yeah, right? It's qualities of qualities, experience, world view, belief, all all the questions of of the big, the the hero. Really, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the beginning of the hero.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I'm gonna leave it at that cause. I have to
Jennifer: for today, sending lots of love to everyone, and I will see you soon. Thank you.