00:00:41 Angela Stringhini: hello Joanna and all, Good evening/morning 00:00:50 Janná Giles: Hello Lovely-One 00:04:00 Nell Reid: now I want to do it about my husband! 🙂 00:04:11 amy palatnick: LOL Nell 00:04:34 Aiyana McKenzie: Me too, Nell! 😄 00:14:03 amy palatnick: “good enough!” 00:14:06 MaryAnn: I’m wondering if there's a different word for that, Barbara. Maybe you're speaking about order and organization. 00:14:42 MaryAnn: Perfect organization may not be the same as perfectionism. (Said the former Professional Organizer.) 00:15:51 Joli Knott: In Japanese there is a phrase “seirishita” which I guess could translate as everything in its right place… 00:16:08 Barbara Daughter: That's an astute observation, MaryAnn. Perhaps there is a different word for it. 00:16:56 Barbara Daughter: I like that, Joli. It feels satisfying when it's like that. 00:17:22 Joli Knott: I totally know what you mean! 00:24:51 amy palatnick: these are reminding me of "resistance" when a client doesn't act how they "normally" act 00:25:06 Aiyana McKenzie: I'm relieved to hear again that this is not about doing all this perfectly. I was joking but also serious when I commented last week that I was desiring to perfectly get free of perfectionism 00:29:34 Angela Stringhini: Joanna Question: how do you think self-sabotage is related to the Myth of perfection? 00:29:52 Angela Stringhini: ok thank you 00:30:02 Randa Sultan: can procrastination be a form of self-sabotage? 00:31:01 Layne Mosler: patterned/subtle = checking my email before a writing session 00:31:06 Annelise Pesa: going to bed late, be rebellious towards scheduling with the excuse of going with the flow 00:31:18 Randa Sultan: staying up late... ending up tired, again, in the morning... 00:31:19 Melissa K: I am late for social events that are supposed to be either fun or important. 00:31:25 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): I missed a call with a friend this morning because I didn't close the loop and write it down in my calendar. 00:31:26 amy palatnick: subtle: overschedule myself. slip into eating bread and cheese, staying up too late 00:31:34 AJ Frenzel: Time blindness. Patterned and recognizable? 00:31:40 Barbara Daughter: Explicit self-sabotage: I was late but on my way to an audition for a TV show host. I was "lucky" to have the opportunity. But on the way my car started making noises & I decided I needed to get it checked instead of going. 00:31:44 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): ditto on the staying up late thing: revenge bedtime! 00:31:54 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): When in transition (like now), instead of going straight to my yoga mat, I check email first and get distracted… and then don't have as much time for my (much needed) practice 00:31:58 Nell Reid: looking for my mom's approval on things I know are not typically her thing 00:32:00 Angela Stringhini: Explicit: Trying to work full-time as mother/family and be full time as business owner, trying to schedule more than I can do, even if I was working to 9-5 in a office 00:32:02 Aiyana McKenzie: example of explicit self sabotage: Rori Rae reached out to me very excited about a post I wrote 4 years ago and she wanted to promote me and work with me and I did not feel worthy to follow through. A similar thing happened with Kathering Woodward Thomas and Alex Allman. I had not thought about this until now. 00:32:10 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): eating what is not healthy for me 00:32:14 Aiyana McKenzie: Subtle self sabotage: 00:32:15 Erin Borbet: Over-scheduling myself… 00:32:39 Aiyana McKenzie: oops accidentally posted last comment 00:32:56 Izzi Beaulieu (she/her): Over committing to tasks and projects. I misplace important items for my business. My cheating with dairy and gluten, which I'm severely allergic to. Checking FB before calls (which throws me into angst...Haha) 00:34:00 AJ Frenzel: I got into a car accident on my way to teach my very first dance class. Showed up late and scattered. With an outwardly recognizable and valid excuse. When I probably would have shown up late and scatterd anyway. 00:34:11 Annelise Pesa: I cant say 00:34:20 Annelise Pesa: Not sure why I stay up late 00:34:58 amy palatnick: fear of conforming. Rebellious inner teenager. I just want to do what I want in the moment. Feels more like a trickster energy than a fear 00:35:19 Annelise Pesa: may it be an habit ??? 00:35:27 Barbara Daughter: I have that rebellious inner teenager too, Amy! 00:35:31 Veronica Jensen: @Amy I have a lot of that one, too :) 00:35:45 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): Stepping into my power is scary 00:35:47 Annelise Pesa: working late in my previous job 00:35:57 Aiyana McKenzie: At root—I feel unworthy of love— belief I will be attacked or worse for letting down my guard and just being my wild, silly, sexy self— Or for speaking my views on religion, culture etc. 00:36:15 amy palatnick: fear of ongoing commitment 00:36:16 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): @Amy I was a perfectionism teenager but then left home and really needed to express my rebellious teenager - and she lives so strongly in me! 00:36:20 Annelise Pesa: yes maybe belief i do not need much rest ! 00:36:24 Joli Knott: So I stay up late and consistently go to bed an hour later than I want to, but I do have the belief that I do my best work late at night 00:38:33 Joli Knott: so like a cascade…. 00:39:03 Aiyana McKenzie: I have seen this pattern of fear creating “self-fulfilling prophesy” 00:40:27 Barbara Daughter: yes exactly @Aiyana ... self-fulfilling prophecy 00:45:23 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): this exercise is helpful 00:45:36 Nell Reid: yes. agreed 00:46:03 MaryAnn: Shame. 00:46:12 Nell Reid: weakness 00:46:19 Layne Mosler: hopelessness 00:46:19 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Shame 00:46:22 Angela Stringhini: heart palpitations 00:46:26 Anna Robinson: hopelessness 00:46:36 Randa Sultan: reduced self worth, value, questioning my decisions, confusion... 00:46:38 Carla Sanders: shame, avoidance, anxious 00:46:41 Angela Stringhini: anxiety 00:46:45 Barbara Daughter: overwhelm 00:46:51 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): overwhelm, alone 00:47:01 Annelise Pesa: feeling `i am not loving my self fully 00:47:43 Angela Stringhini: It feels like breaking the cycle is almost impossible, as one thing leads to another 00:49:26 Aiyana McKenzie: In Buddhism, they describe the "wheel of samsara" in which we perpetuate suffering. This often involves reacting negatively to others and so they react negatively to us, which perpetuates the cycle. This is self-sabotage part of the wheel. 00:50:02 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Oh, Michelyn, I can relate to EVERY SINGLE THING you just said… Thanks for sharing. Witnessing you 🙏🏼 00:50:12 Randa Sultan: very similar patterns @aiyana! 00:50:28 Aiyana McKenzie: Thank you for sharing, Michelyn. I admire you so much, so hearing you having some of the negative thoughts I have helps me forgive myself because I see you as so awesome 00:50:44 Randa Sultan: Wow @michelyn... I can totally resonate with all of what you said... I didn't realize that that is exactly what it leads to 00:51:27 Joli Knott: I love that--the intentional shift of how I'm looking at taking the time/working late… 00:52:19 Angela Stringhini: so relate to this Randa 00:52:38 amy palatnick: @randa i totally relate with this! 00:52:43 Brenda: Randa -- so relate to this. 00:52:56 Tina Dowdy: Yes Randa, I know the perpetual student cycle well. <3 00:53:18 Joli Knott: Me, too—can't get enough learning and certificates! 00:53:29 Aiyana McKenzie: Me too! (Randa, Tina, Joli) 00:53:34 Vlada Tomova: @randa I so relate to this as well! thank you for verbalizing 00:53:45 Veronica Jensen: yes, there with you too, @randa <3 00:54:01 Tina Dowdy: beneath my perpetual student cycle is the myth of perfection for me 00:54:33 Angela Stringhini: I will probably self-sabotage this statement too .. 00:54:33 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Yes, I relate to this as well, Randa. I've started getting better at saying "no" to all of the shiny awesome opportunities, and it feels good - but there's always a place in me feeling like I'm missing out... this is one I work with a lot... 00:54:56 Randa Sultan: @kelly - yes the FOMO piece as well 00:55:36 Joli Knott: Same here @Kelly and @Randa! 00:55:40 Brenda: Kelly -- FOMO -- so much -- I will be missing out on this exciting experience and class 00:56:04 Barbara Daughter: FOMO here too!! 00:58:29 amy palatnick: I think discomfort is lower on the pain scale 00:58:32 Deva Munay: Pain: ouch, it really hurts, make it stop Discomfort: out of my comfort zone, stretchy, pushing my edge safely 00:58:35 Aiyana McKenzie: Discomfort — out of robotic ‘comfort zone’ or zone of patterned habits that are deeply unconscious and often hold a grip on us, almost as if we are identified with them Pain— signal from body that something isn’t right and needs to be changed- stopped or adjusted 00:58:37 Brenda: How do tell if it is fear, discomfort or pain? 00:58:46 Randa Sultan: discomfort - I don't have to pay attention to it, pain I need to pay attention to it 00:59:05 Nell Reid: discomfort - stretching/growth/pushing myself vs. Pain - not being true to myself/harming myself 01:00:13 Izzi Beaulieu (she/her): Pain = harms & wounds vs. Discomfort = Shifting & stretching 01:00:43 Veronica Jensen: discomfort is when there’s a vague background noise of vulnerability or shame around doing something new, feels difficult and uncertain; pain actually sets off immediate and clear signals in nervous system that this thing is outright dangerous, something that would take a long recovery time, leaves scars. 01:01:58 Barbara Daughter: well-said @Veronica 01:02:02 Angela Stringhini: Discomfort: Acting from the heart and Pain: acting from anywhere that is not from the heart 01:02:07 Barbara Daughter: I loved your example @Aiyana 01:03:50 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): With discomfort, the over-riding purpose is so big that I'm willing to experience it. With pain, the over-riding purpose is not quite big enough. 01:05:08 Angela Stringhini: And also there is that say: No pain no gain…it really confuses people 01:05:15 AJ Frenzel: I think I was also conflating discomfort with unease. 01:06:07 Layne Mosler: i think we also equate discomfort with misalignment sometimes 01:06:22 Angela Stringhini: This is enlightening Joanna... a new mantra for me. Thank you 01:06:23 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): Thank you, Kelly, it IS really amazing after all this time in the unknown and leaning into trust, which is hard work! My nervous system is settling in bit by bit, what is meaningful is that the hard work still left is going into what I want to create for myself, my family, my business, my husband and kid individually and yes, justlife in general. I hear you on the bureaucracy, so tedious! Am so happy for you and that you're both loving it. Well done to do the whole transition as a single mom, I applaud you. Yes to ceremonial time when ready, my son is starting nursery these days, yay! We're ready to release<3 01:07:19 Annelise Pesa: for me is different depending whether is physical or emotional 01:07:56 AJ Frenzel: Discomfort seeking behavior feels like it can be a self-sabotaging action. 01:07:59 amy palatnick: I feel there are two types of discomfort: one that is on the way to pain, another that is part of growth 01:08:03 Joli Knott: I feel like I can survive discomfort but that I may not survive pain--or that pain will change me irrevocably…. 01:08:15 Joli Knott: I like that @Amy 01:08:20 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): like that, Amy 01:08:39 Brenda: I am afraid of discomfort - and sense some fear of more trauma 01:08:51 Barbara Daughter: that makes sense @Amy 01:09:03 Aiyana McKenzie: I do many things that make me feel uncomfortable and others assume I am comfortable with these things. I have learned that more pain comes if I don’t step into discomfort 01:09:26 Barbara Daughter: yes @ Brenda -- I think discomfort can be a warning sign that pain is ahead, especially physically 01:10:06 amy palatnick: avoid dealing with family of origin issues=long term comfort/avoidance 01:10:12 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): COVID-mode. Not exercising enough. Not going to yoga class when I really need to go. 01:11:32 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): Same here, Aiyana. For me, paradoxically, the willingness to be in dicomfort comes from living with chronic and at times disabling pain. 01:12:03 amy palatnick: (((sidsel))) 01:12:36 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): + 01:12:43 Aiyana McKenzie: Me too, Sidsel. I am very sorry for your pain. C 01:14:51 Joli Knott: @Sidsel 💛💙💜 01:15:10 Barbara Daughter: (((Sidsel))) 01:18:02 Annelise Pesa: @Sisdel I am so sorry to hear ❤️ 01:18:23 Aiyana McKenzie: It is interesting, Sidsel, that chronic and often excruciating and debilitating pain can make it much easier to be ok with discomfort in other areas. 01:20:33 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Sidsel and Aiyana ❤️, I've been on that pain journey as well before. It is so challenging and opening and wild - and yes, pain can open up a great deal, including the capacity to live with discomfort in a more regular way (and an ability to feel more all around). Wishing you both greater ease and reduction in pain. So much love. ❤️❤️❤️ 01:21:04 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): <3 Aiyana, Amy, Joli, Barbara and Annelise <3 Yes, Aiyana and Kelly, there is purpose, gifts, strenght and drive in the pain, being with it <3 01:21:14 Randa Sultan: and beyond this? 01:21:15 Vlada Tomova: Aiyana .. and Sidsel .. and everyone chiming in - thank you for sharing, such deep revelations! 01:21:44 Aiyana McKenzie: (((Sidsel))) 01:21:49 Randa Sultan: ok perfect sounds goo! 01:21:53 Randa Sultan: good... 01:21:54 Aiyana McKenzie: Vlada 🙂 01:22:09 Michelyn.com (MIKE-uh-lin): +- 01:22:27 Aiyana McKenzie: Thank you, dear Kelly 01:22:54 Angela Stringhini: Love tht JOLI 01:24:09 Joli Knott: @Angela 💜💛 01:24:35 Layne Mosler: drawing out the wheel was such a powerful exercise—I'm excited to share this exercise with clients when the moment is right. 01:25:09 Barbara Daughter: I agree @Layne ... it was so personally informative 01:25:37 Joli Knott: Agreed @Layne—excited to use the wheel drawing in client sessions! 01:26:08 Vlada Tomova: I realized I believed in things having to be .. easy .. or sort of! .. I am so surprised 01:28:09 Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Such a beautiful session, thank you, Joanna, and all of you. This group is amazing. So much love… 01:28:10 AJ Frenzel: Can someone remind me what are the words on the Stretch >> Die scale? 01:28:18 amy palatnick: stretch risk die 01:28:26 AJ Frenzel: Thanks Amy! 01:29:01 Annelise Pesa: very profound as usual thanks Joanna and all ❤️ 01:29:07 Barbara Daughter: Witnessing you and honoring you Brenda! Many hugs!!! 01:29:08 Joli Knott: Thank you for today 🙂 01:29:11 Veronica Jensen: <3 01:29:12 Janná Giles: Sending longer and gratitude in all ways❣️🙏🌞 01:29:15 Barbara Daughter: thanks!! 01:29:16 Sidsel Nelund (Si-sel - she/her): thank you! 01:29:18 Joli Knott: Oh no! I have a client…. 01:29:18 AJ Frenzel: Gracias! 01:29:20 Angela Stringhini: thank you so much it was incredible!!!! 01:29:22 Joli Knott: Bye