Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi! Everybody! Welcome! Welcome! Give us another minute to get here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): prowl that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people come in as they're coming in. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first of all. I wanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): welcome Alicia to our circle for today. Hi, Alicia, I would see you in a while. It's so so good to see you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia has taken advanced. Think more than once, twice, and missed the devil workshop
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): last time. So she's joining us today, and I'm just so happy to have you here for you to all be able to meet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia, because she's amazing. Yeah, and to share the space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's take a few moments and get centered and settled.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If it's comfortable for you to close your eyes, I invite you to close your eyes. I'm gonna close mine. If it's more comfortable to keep your eyes open and go inward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel free to do that. Take a little
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): time and space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to bring yourself present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe using the breath
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a way to remember your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as a way to call
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of you back home for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): using each breath to maybe connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): more deeply
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to yourself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to the wisdom that you hold inside.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe placing a hand on your heart. If that feels right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connecting in with your heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): your heart that has held so much
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): joy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): grief.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anger.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): love.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): honoring your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for all that it's held, all that it's experienced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and for leading you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to this very moment, right here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and even though we are all over the world in different places.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking a moment right now in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): container.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to step into this circle
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to claim your seat here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to connect in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so that we all energetically
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): come together
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for a beautiful, meaningful
day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): together. Let's take a nice breath in and exhale everything out with a sigh so breathing in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if your eyes aren't already open. allowing them to flutter open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bringing yourself fully present
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): welcome welcome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have so been looking forward to being with all of you our first meeting of 2024, and I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm really excited for us together to go on a little bit of a journey today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to look obsessions, compulsions, and attachments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's what we're doing today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the choose your own journey technique. As you all know, we look at impulses
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today, we're looking at compulsions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So we're gonna spend the first part of the day, as we often do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really. in a very unique way and in a different way, understanding some human behavior and psychology around obsessions, compulsions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): attachments. And in a creative way that I think you'll all really, really love. It'll be a really not only incredible knowledge and wisdom for you and and self exploration, but it'll be, I think, a really meaningful and effective lens for you to apply for your client work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): obsessions, compulsions, and attachments, 1 one lens. and then in the afternoon. We're gonna learn a specific technique that will get to practice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as with everything we do in advance. What we're looking at today relates to shadow in the sense that we tend to see obsessions and compulsions and the related devil archetype
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): negatively as bad
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But of course, with everything we do here. We're gonna turn this all on its head and bring it out of the shadows and look at it in a very different way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): One of the other things I love about this day, and the reason why it's comes after our
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): dream and archetypal imagery training is that we're going to be working with an image in a really fun image of the devil in the in a really fun way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're Umhm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How do I want to put this. We're going to go deep today because we always go deep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we're going to get a lot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And we're not going to go deep, deep, deep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into the double archetype. That's because it is a very big archetype with a very big
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): archetypal energy, and we don't need to go so deep. Wanna go so deep. Into it go 2, 3 layers, in which, I think is more than enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This retreat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in particular. Every now and again
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): someone in the group like you might not resonate
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fully with what we're looking at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's okay, right always. And good facilitators. Note not. Everybody is going to resonate with everything. But I promise you, even if it's not, this topic isn't a full 100% match for you. If you stay present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you will find some things that are really important that are here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. so with all of that, just to kind of to get our our just start kind of moving become more present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm just gonna ask you what's one celebration?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Something that you want to celebrate, either since the beginning of the year or since we last met. I can't even remember now when we had our last retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): always good to start the day with a celebration. What is an inner or outer thing that you would really like to acknowledge and celebrate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if otherwise things are kind of shitty. There's still always something to celebrate and to honor. What is that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's going? Well, inner or outer?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Kelly is sharing. And I really would like, if possible, if everybody can share in the chat so good to see some celebrations. Kelly went dancing last night.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's a big celebration, and sometimes the best celebrations are not related to work, but that yes, like you're saying the inner work, for sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and that feels like such a direct
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): indirect relationship. Kelly is in the life changing courses retreat last weekend. It feels very related to what we're you are working on last weekend.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Teresa's showing up. I'm so glad you're here, Teresa. I've missed your face. I'm really glad you're here instead of catching the recording. That is a celebration.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne's coming to the States. Come to North Carolina. please.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nicole finished up a free 6 weeks series of sessions with a client sounds like Nicole. I'm gonna guess into this that as the celebration maybe isn't only that you just finished it up, and I have a feeling there's lots of celebrations inside of those 6 weeks
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David met to produce your new album, Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and already more than 20 people for your February retreat. Yes. Tang nor tree. I love it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad people want to smush my face. By the way, thank you. I'll smash yours back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer's got a new cohort of beyond the choice. Starting next Tuesday with women stepping in from around the world. I'm so excited for you and for them, Jennifer, I know you've been preparing for this. Yes, and it's such an honor
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they've trusted you. Caroline signed for people. Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maria, you expressed anger today. That is a huge celebration. I know you've been working on that amazing. Lisa bought a house in the countryside. I know you've been working on getting settled in there. So so exciting new environment, new energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia's created a lot of safety, beauty, and peace in your life for yourself and your son and established boundaries.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know you've been ongoing doing that deep and sacred work, and it sounds like, even since we have last connected, even even deeper, so so happy to hear it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina's hosting a free gathering for your audience on Monday, and you got a great turn yay, more than it's always good to get more. It doesn't always happen, but it is always a celebration.
The
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wendy's nephew had his first baby.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's like a rite of passage for everyone in your kind of generation of the family that's huge, so exciting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly is almost done with your landing page.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica. You've had covid, but you're making incremental progress. Yeah. So I'm so so glad you're here, and you take good care of yourself today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Melanie. Melanie worked on the latest version of one of your manuals, and you joyfully reconnected with your creativity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): huge celebration. because sometimes it is a not the easiest road to reconnect with your creativity
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): involve a powerful series of emails in the autumn. They were so powerful. And you're feeling good. About 2024. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Michelle has been meeting your business goal for increasing and maintaining your baseline virtual clients. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you think I got everyone?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So one more piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we always do, I'd like for us to set intentions as we get started. So first, maybe to just jot down some notes. Why are you here? Even if you don't really know what we're doing today, or you're just showing up, because it was on your calendar as part of advance.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But even just from the little introduction that I gave.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or for other reasons. Why are you here, and what is it that you wanna receive today?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why are you here? And what would you like to receive. even if you have no idea what we're stepping into.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then from there I invite you to get clear on an inner intention
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so based on why you're here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what it is that you want to receive today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's your intention for the day? How do you want to show up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Please share in the chat? What's your intention. How do you want to show up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): present engaged? Grateful, curious, open.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, to be honest and open, to allow for the most clarity and clearing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for access to the parts that want seeing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica saying, the devil can be so fun and liberating on the opposite end of despairing and oppression. Yes, and I'm here to embrace the gold. Yeah
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): present, and grateful for Michelle, relaxed, and to enjoy the time. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not going to read all of these out loud. Take a moment and read them in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So whatever your inner intention is. I invite you to take a moment right now and set it. Set it in your heart
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or inside of you. Have it not? Just be a cognitive idea, but take a moment and embody
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inert intention that you have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Give it a moment to really settle in to yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Honor this intention enough to make space for it inside of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and by these acts.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and by our intentions we name this space over this day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): save and sacred.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May it be a safe space for us to explore some of the layers of the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and our compulsions and our obsessions. May it be a sacred space. whereby, as we do that work. we come to love ourselves more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have more compassion for ourselves. and learn next steps for turning habits that don't serve around
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): together. We are a living, breathing circle of transformation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Our circle is cast.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if you're wondering, cause, usually the routine is in the beginning of our advanced retreats. We kind of each have time to check in, and everybody gets to talk we will have opportunity for everybody to share in in just a little bit. But I wanna jump in first
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the archetype. We're going to start with the archetype of the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just to be clear, we're not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): approaching this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from any kind of religious perspective. You know, there's a lot within different religions. There's a lot of talk of of the devil and and all of that. We're not looking at this from any religious perspective.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And, as I said earlier, we're not looking at this from a negative perspective.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're looking at this as as an archetypal energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All architectural energies have low expressions, low level of their expression, not so helpful expression and then helpful expression. So we're we're looking at this in order to to start to understand some higher expressions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me go ahead and share my screen. The way I always love to. First introduce this architect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is through image.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the taro. Can you all see my screen?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this is a traditional image of the archetype of the devil from the rider weight Tarodak.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in many, many different tarotacks, even if the you know some, the double arch type looks completely different than what we see here, but in many different representations in taro, no matter what the style of the art.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We often see a similar kind of scene that's going on here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what do we see here? Well, we see the devil who is standing on a pedestal to which are changed a nude man and a woman.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as if to show that the devil has dominion over this man and woman. The devil has power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): over this man and woman.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if we look more closely at the devil, this image of the devil. He has almost like a hypnotic stare, a stare that magnetizes a stare that entrances
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people that come near him, and it's like it's through that magnet magnetism, and that hypnotic stare that the devil can bring
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people under his power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The devil is the taskmaster controlling
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): an image of power over
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and seemingly giving others no choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the matter, right? Which is how we often feel about things where you know compulsions, obsessions, attachment, right? It's out of our control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's just like something has a power over us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we look deeper
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the truth well, check this out for yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and see if it feels like truth. it's not like the devil just came, sought us out, found us, and chained us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've usually, in one way or another, made a deal with the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and part of the deal was the chains. We've chained ourselves to our vices and to our illusions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so, for the purposes of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our session today, you know, we can call those vices illusions, compulsions, money. Maybe we've changed. Maybe we've made a deal with the devil about money, right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or fame or fortune.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe the thing that we feel we have no power over is our desire for attention. Right? We've made, in a way, a a deal with the devil, and we end up doing things that are compulsions in order to get it. Attention.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe sexual attention.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe we have just this need for accumulating more and more and more and more and more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe the vice is a particular relationship that we're in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe for us, the vice, the illusion is power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Social media likes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? How many social media likes? Can I get success. popularity.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beauty, by whatever culture standard you want to call beauty? Maybe we've made a deal with the devil in order to have that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe we've made to deal with the devil in order to have more shoes, you know right if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the devil can represent
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): becoming bogged down to whatever the vice, the illusion, the obsession, the attachment is right, we are. We get chained to that thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know there have been times in my own life where I've
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): been chained, or I've chained myself to success, right willing to do anything to be more successful and work longer hours, you know, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and when we get bogged down to whatever the thing is, when we are chained to it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we usually end up forgetting in those moments. It's an illusion, right? And we forget about the bigger picture. And what's truly important in life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna share a little bit more, and then we'll we'll open up for discussion, cause I'm sure this is bringing up a lot of different thoughts and ideas. But are you all with me so far, does this make sense so far?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so let's look at the image a little bit more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the man and the woman in the image.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They both have horns.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as if to show that the more time they spend with the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the less human they become right, the more like the devil the less human they become. Not present robotic. They're more and more drawn in by the illusion, by the vice, by the thing that they're chained to, and they're less and less themselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So when we are changed to an illusion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's certain behaviors big depending on what that illusion is, you know, one of the things I mentioned earlier. Money, fame, fortune, attention, visibility, right, need for validity, accolades, power, right all the things. When when we're chained.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we end up, and we're under the illusion of the devil. We end up in certain behaviors
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that are almost like compulsive behaviors
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that don't really either work for us or for others around us. So examples of some of those behaviors are. I need to work until 9 pm. Every night.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? That might be different than okay. There's a hustle period where I have to work a little bit more. But this consistent, maybe overworking another example of a compulsive behavior, constantly checking social media.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Any kind of obsession with work, checking email all the time.
getting new head shots all the time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): serial. Bad romantic relationships can be a compulsive behavior.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): staying up too late, even when you know it doesn't serve you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Any kind of technology addiction, new obsession with the news be a compulsive behavior.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shopping
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): constantly looking to see how many likes you get on social media.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else? What are some other examples of compulsive behaviors? When we're kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): change? We, you know, we feel like we have no power over it or change to something. We think it's gonna get us something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): share in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else? What other compulsive behaviors come up. Substances, including food eating, watching the scale.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Cleaning? Yeah, that's a good one sometimes, right? And oftentimes that they're veiled is like, this is good and productive, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Obsession with hell.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): People? Pleasing busyness? Yeah. So it's important to say, just as we continue to look in this. Obviously, we each all know our scope
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of practice for some of us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and and depending on the client, and you know what how worked through. They are with certain past experiences in their life. For some of us it's completely in our scope
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to look at an eating habit, you know, through the lens today and work with someone for others of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There might be some other pieces there for the client that they they might need to work through first with
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a therapist before you know, looking us looking at it with us. It's all it's I don't even wanna say this behavior or that behavior, because it just depends on the client, and sometimes we have to, as we all know, suss out a little bit right? How regulated are they with it, you know. Have they were. If there been a traumatic experience, how much have they worked through it already? etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright! But let's pause here, and I'd love to hear a couple of voice to voice shares so far. As we've just started to look at this image of the devil. What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are you hearing that feels important for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's just even starting to spark for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hey, Greg, I'm glad you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share what's working for you so far. What are you seeing so far?
Gregg Berman: Can you give a
Gregg Berman: we've recap because I don't. It. It sounded like you were saying 2 different, you know. I'm only here for a couple of minutes, but it sounded like you were saying 2 different things when I came on one being
Gregg Berman: a
Gregg Berman: habits that you have no control over in the other being, you're trying to get something by doing something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So what we were looking at is an image of the devil archetype. I'll put it up on the screen later. Again, and that these compulsive behaviors
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): often happen whether we realize it or not, because we're trying to get something. We're under an illusion of something, and we feel comp so compelled to it that we've made in a way, a deal with the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to do whatever it takes to get that thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that make sense.
Gregg Berman: Yeah, that part makes sense it. It sounds it sounds that sounds like one category of what you were saying. And then and then, when you were saying, like
Gregg Berman: like looking at social media, or doing certain behaviors, that you seem to not not being control of that
Gregg Berman: like, it sounds like that's there can be a different origin. For why, that's happening versus I'm trying to get something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right right, and you may have to go back to the recording, you know, to fully get it. But what I was saying is, the one leads to the other. So if there is an illusion of, I need validation, or I need a lot of people to like me, and that like that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the illusion. It could lead to a compulsive behavior like constantly checking social media.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or if there is a vice or an illusion of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): money is everything, and I can't, you know, exist without more and more money. It could lead to a compulsive behaviour.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. Gambling, overworking, right? I it depends on the person, does that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connection make more sense?
Gregg Berman: Yeah, I think so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Diva.
Deva Munay: yeah, I was just gonna comment on the social media and phone. I mean, even just how dependent
Deva Munay: myself. People are on their phone and just always like looking at it. And that attachment to that, the
Deva Munay: I think, wanting to be connected to something. But then missing the immediate of like, what's actually happening like in restaurants when you see people just like families, everyone's on their phone and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, social media is such a big one these days.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it's so easy to fall into it. I just recently put social media and email back on my phone be, you know, over vacation I needed in case of I still, a month later, I haven't taken it off.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I see a difference in how I move through my day because of it. Hope, maybe hopefully, after today's call, I'll take it off my phone again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer.
Jennifer Kittredge: Hi, everyone. Yeah, what's coming up for me. And this is like personal. What I've done is like signing up for another certification and another course, and it to like prove my work, because underneath it there's this and not enough. And so it's like proving over and over which this year I've really worked on like taking it step back from that. But it's definitely
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has been very present in my life. And it's that not enough. So I'm gonna prove, with another certification and another degree and another this. And it's exhausting. Yeah, yeah, such a great example. It's like, you can feel that compulsion when right? Yeah.
Jennifer Kittredge: shit
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nicole.
Nicole Harris: thinking about my own kind of
Nicole Harris: my own compulsions, and that they're often driven by a sense of anxiety
Nicole Harris: and and sort of working back from that. So you know, checking my phone, or smoking too much weed, or something like that, and sort of working back from that, from the thing that I'm trying to to to discover the thing that I'm trying to get. It's it's not necessarily
Nicole Harris: outwardly driven. It's really more of like a desire for comfort.
Nicole Harris: or to to quell some sort of inner, you know, something going on. So that's right. And that's that's one of the directions we're we're going in for, sure is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's the need? Right? What is the actual need that's activating the compulsion?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good in ball?
Inbal Sansani: Well. I was thinking, similar to Nicole.
Inbal Sansani: like certain, like, you know, stimming or self soothing behaviors.
Inbal Sansani: that.
Inbal Sansani: yeah. Related to like how how the brain is is wired. you know, that are also like trying to achieve something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): always else. Right? Even if like, you know, I'm not exactly sure what.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly why, we don't want to put the compulsions into shadow, because there is a purpose
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): being served. We want to understand it. Sorry. But I cut you off. What were you going to say next?
Inbal Sansani: Yeah. And then select separately. My other question is around, addiction?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So
Inbal Sansani: like, like, not like, Oh, I'm addicted to my phone. But like. And that's why I was kind of saying like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I, at least for me and my scope, you know, in a practitioner training I'm not gonna name.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And Dick, you know, we're that we're working with addiction. Cause? I don't know. Yeah, I think it's within some people's scope, but not everyone's. I wouldn't even name it as within mine. Necessarily. So yeah, that's why I'm I'm kind of calling it more compulsions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Attachments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): oops. I lowered my hand instead of unmuting. I think there's a lot that's coming up just related to anxiety. And one thing, just resonating a lot with what's been said around how it's often like a self soothing
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): thing. I'm aware, just as you were asking the questions, of how there were all these things I saw in my mother and my grandmother that I didn't wanna do so. I didn't do those things, but I can see that like the desire to kind of soothe or or do things a different way, or even though I didn't do these things earlier in life. There were things that then
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): led to certain compulsions that I do now that look similar to what they're doing so. It's also for me just interesting to see how it gets carried through. In the generations. And and just one piece I wanted to say, too, on the addictions piece, is that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): because of like my work on the nervous system and the brain, and how habits get formed?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I have a really normalizing way of looking at addiction and it. And it just it isn't like from a place of judgment. It's really understanding that there are formal things happening just like everything from like being on Facebook to
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to, you know, smoking like high. II don't know why nothing's occurring to me in the moment. But, like, you know, really intense drugs. It's the same brain centers that get activated in the same parts of our nervous system. And it's I love. I've worked with a lot of people in addictions who work with families who are substance exposed and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and it's just like really helpful, I think, to normalize it because of how it gets how these things get formed. For all of us, like none of us, are free of this completely. So true. I'm so glad you're bringing it, and you know, and it could be a different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): behavior. You know. Some are more accepted and some are less accepted
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like over exercising, overworking, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kind of addiction, substance, addiction not normalized enough.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): totally double. Monte talks about how he obsessively buys books, and he's like my obsession is completely acceptable, like it works among. I'm not smoking. Crack.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then, like within, back to what I was saying within our scopes, and Alicia is speaking to this in the chat. You know addiction means so many things to so many people. I believe it also has a clinical definition, which is, and the clinical definition part is why, you know, we just have. We have to know what our
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love this whole discussion brings up so much, so all of you are already, I know. You know, stirring on some of these things. But let me ask you a couple of journaling questions to look
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even more deeply.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): First question. who or what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you feel? Has power over you? Or is holdigu prisoner in the context of what we're talking about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Obviously, it's societal structures there's power over, etc. But you know more as we're looking at compulsions and attachments.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who or what do you feel? Has power over you, or is holding you prisoner the way those 2 people in the taro are being held
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): by the devil? Is it a need to be liked? Is it a need for everybody to think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're incredible? I've been held prisoner by that before. Right is it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something else
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): need for more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who or what do you feel? Has power over you, or is holding you prisoner?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See what comes up for you. if and if it comes up, even if you're not a hundred percent sure, put it down for now, right or wrong. see what wants to come up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll share with you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): one that is a little off the beaten path. That I've been working with for myself
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): lately, which is. have this deep, deep, deep
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): need for my kids
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to want to be in relationship with me when they become adults.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's like an obsess, it's it is a true obsession and attachment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it leads to not consistent compulsive behaviors, but it leads to certain behaviors, because that need feels so strong inside of me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can be held prisoner by it, and then sometimes my kids get help prisoner a little bit by it, just putting a light on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and please feel free to share some examples in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What I mean by compulsive behavior. Kelly is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this strange, like twisted way it leads to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): internally, I know, like. Don't say the thing you want to say. Don't say the thing you want to say, but then I compulsively
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): say it, anyway, and then I have to repair what I've said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Alicia's got something similar.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Desire to be good, to be smart or valued
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): images of who my family is. A desire for belonging being responsible.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Alicia, it's okay. If it doesn't necessarily lead to compulsive behaviors. Just you know all this for exploration
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Jennifer. The need to prove that I'm enough or no enough. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having to be perfect, the need for perfection. Good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): desire to be respected. Yep.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah. And David's bringing up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the point that's at the crux of this right. Some of it feels like a dance between being a responsibility. I mean, again, this isn't bad, right? It's not. None of this is bad. It's about finding right relationship.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another question to think about.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where do you feel trapped?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who? What? And again, in the context of what we're looking at today. So another way of asking that question, what or who or what behaviors are you chained to, or obsessing about?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you chained to, or obsessing about? Who are you chained to, or obsessing about? What behaviors are you chained to. or obsessing about?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if you chronically check social media, that that would be one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you chronically stay up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): too late.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even though you know it's not serving you in any way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That would be a behavior that you're chained to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you keep on hanging out with a certain friend who is just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not, you know, in your heart is not good to you. That might be somebody that you're chained to like the devil right? It's like you keep on coming back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're hypnotized in some way that make sense.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you keep on compulsively changing your website to this word and that word and this little thing and that little thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that might be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a behavior that you know, you're an obsessive behavior
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Kelly staying up too late. Overworking?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And for sure in ball, if there can be overlap between the 2.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, for Teresa need to be seen as if you have it all together. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay, a couple of more questions. And again, some of these are, it might
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): result in same answers, but it might activate some other things. So I'm kind of just asking from different angles.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where in your life
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): does the devil archetype show up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where in your life does the devil archetype show up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then the follow-up to that is, how does it show up? What happens when it shows up. What are the behaviors? What's the impact?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See if anything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): comes through looking at it in this lens?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Few more questions
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when the devil archetype shows up for you what beliefs show up along with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when the devil archetype shows up what beliefs
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): show up along with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is part of the hypnotism of the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you for the shares in the chat. They're all really important and poignant.
Gregg Berman: Can you repeat the last question?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sorry if I didn't put it in the chat. I'll put it in there, too, when the double archetype shows up what beliefs show up along with it for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm going to add a another question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for consideration.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And again, this might yield something new or not.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I find it powerful to look at it to to ask this particular question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's the deal that you've made with the devil?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the deal that you've made with the devil? Those deals we never get out. Stop free! Right? We give up something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for something else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the deal that you've made with the Temple?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then one last question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does the devil energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel like for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does the devil energy feel like without calling it in right? Now observe.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does it feel? There you go.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Veronica saying, it's a lose lose deal. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're not the only one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, hopefully, this is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): stirring up a lot. And you know, at least I see from the chat a lot of connections are being made and new understandings. And so I wanna give you all an opportunity to have more time to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and process
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I'm gonna send you off into breakout rooms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, I did rooms of 2. But I think I'm gonna do 3. Actually.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything like that will be even better.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and each person will have about 4 min to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And yeah, to share and get reflections. If you want to get reflections
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright, looks like there's one group of 4. So you'll each have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 3 min in there. Okay, I'll hold time for you enjoy. So it's just opportunity to share what's feeling important in terms of what's coming through so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Did you all need more time? I got this kind of feeling. Everybody might be in the middle of saying something
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. I'd love to hear a couple of shares
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what's coming through. What's feeling important. What are you seeing so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer?
Jennifer Kittredge: I'll share. I'll be quick.
Jennifer Kittredge: So I really didn't know what I was getting into today, and so much has come up already, and there's this sense of like
Jennifer Kittredge: that. I don't know enough, but it's like I really wanna be seen as an expert, and that doesn't feel good to me like for some reason I like oh, like that feels cringey and the way that shows up is like, if something doesn't work, I switch gears. So I'm like, Oh, this isn't working. I'm gonna go do this. Now. This isn't working. I'm gonna go do this now. And it is this.
Jennifer Kittredge: So it shows up in like inconsistency. It's like, I'm not believing in myself. I'm not believing in my work, and I'm not right executing. I'm just
Jennifer Kittredge: learning and taking more certifications, and that executing. And then it! It said like, how does the devil energy feel? It feels frantic for me like this constant switching and not believing in myself.
Jennifer Kittredge: As I do have so much awareness around it now, and I've shifted so much. But it this is they like this feels really big to me. And I really needed this today. So thank you, yeah, I'm so glad it's coming forward. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, just the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the understanding that when you change and you change and you change, it's I mean, we could look at it from so many ways. We could look at fear. Right? But terms of like this lens today, this kind of like, expert piece. Good.
Jennifer Kittredge: Yeah. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia.
Alicia Morrow: I was in the group of 4, and we were so efficient we had like an extra 90 s at the end, and we started to just kind of tap into
Alicia Morrow: what the illusion is doing
Alicia Morrow: to us and how we get
Alicia Morrow: caught in this idea of like. But I have to do it that way, because that's what's gonna get me where I want to go, and then you do it that way, and it ends up being a shit show
Alicia Morrow: and or it ends up hurting us and hurting the other, or hurting the project or hurting the what have you?
Alicia Morrow: And yet we still like, think, but that's what we have to do. So we? Ha! It's like, that's the illusion operating. That's the illusion keeping us trapped in the behavior like.
Alicia Morrow: And so like for me, it's this, I it's not so much. You know, I know, I commented in the
Alicia Morrow: chat about, you know, like wanting to be good, mother. It's actually not that it's wanting my son to have a good and happy childhood, and to not like come out the other end of it super fucked up
Alicia Morrow: like. That's what I want for him.
Alicia Morrow: But
Alicia Morrow: like, I think that that's an illusion to even like that, I can. You have control over that? Well, I can. I have control, and that I cannot overly con contribute to that outcome which I feel like I'm doing. But
Alicia Morrow: to think that I have control over how he's going to. you know the meaning that he's gonna make of things, or how he's gonna frame things for himself like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not so much in my control. So so just feeling into that like what the the craziness that the illusion creates. Yeah, I'm so glad that your group got to this, and that you're bringing this forward for all of us. It's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's so important. Lisa.
Lisa Farr: Oh, what I liked about sharing was that we're all the same all way. It's just so. It's funny. There's something kind of
Lisa Farr: fun about that, in a way.
Lisa Farr: Yeah. And as I was sort of sharing my compulsions, it's like.
Lisa Farr: Oh, yeah, I know. I know one really, really well.
Lisa Farr: and that's okay. You know, it's alright. And then this other one that came up today is about, oh, my compulsion to do transformational coaching. I've been doing this for many, many years. So I,
Lisa Farr: wow. and I've got so many techniques that work superbly. And yet I'm still chasing it. So there's there's something more in this, because I've only just really seen it. So I'm going to explore that some more today. Yeah, I wonder what is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even underneath that right? Like, what?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you think it's gonna get you?
Lisa Farr: I think it's gonna get love and appreciation and make me a superstar to be honest, and I'm probably
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what you're chained to right getting the love and being the superstar. Right?
Lisa Farr: See you later.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Lisa Farr: Shame.
Lisa Farr: Why do you say, Shane? Well, it's an illusion. I have fallen under the trance at times of this superstar illusion as well. I get it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): still. Funny. Yeah, well, that's right. Like when we can make light of it. That's also part of the unchanging in a way, right? Cause we can see it for what it is, and that it's not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that it is an illusion, right? That we're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. Yeah. So the laughing is actually part of the transformation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): involved
Inbal Sansani: of all the different like options I have around compulsions and obsessions.
Inbal Sansani: One thing that came through
Inbal Sansani: this time was around like.
Inbal Sansani: you know. I guess it's like got Monte one of his books like the myth of of normal.
Inbal Sansani: And this idea of like. you know. So it's like the comparison is, you know, partly like to keep me in in check.
Inbal Sansani: right to try to like, be normal. So, and it has different iterations, like adult or successful
Inbal Sansani: and
Inbal Sansani: right, keeps me totally separate, separated from. you know, from my brilliances and and gifts, and even even my own very conscious choices.
Yeah.
Inbal Sansani: you know, just makes me feel terrible but it's like, you know. Still, this idea, like I'll be safe. I'll be accepted. I'll fit in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's the deal that's the deal with the devil right there. Right I am. I am willing to be disconnected to feel disconnected from Xyz so long as I'm safe.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah.
Inbal Sansani: yeah. So it's like. I'm like how much of it is.
Inbal Sansani: I've been thinking just in the last like few weeks.
Inbal Sansani: you know, like what's like internalized ableism. you know
Inbal Sansani: what's like, you know the 11 year old, like immigrant girl. you know, with this like
Inbal Sansani: fitting in. So that's like, what's up for me right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, thank you. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm glad you can use what we're looking at today as like other connections. And so what you're already
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): working on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyone else feel like there might be one more share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for right now, Monique.
Monique: I'm happy now like a bit of a light bulb wanting to come in.
Monique: and I know we're talking about the devil and the deal. And what change you? You know? And I'm thinking, well, really is. Is am I really being changed to something? Or is this also.
Monique: and or plus
Monique: the deal that my soul made
Monique: the contract that my soul made when it came down to earth. I landed in this family, and this time in this place. and these are the lessons that I was going to learn, and I am
Monique: a superwoman, and being a superwoman, is both helpful and unhelpful.
Monique: And so what if I'm chained to to that thing? Is it really that bad?
Monique: Yes, being a superwoman? And I showed in in my small group right now. Surgery schedule for the 30 first hip surgery. Finally. Yes, I'm excited about it, but the super woman in me is like I don't need help.
Monique: So what's the payoff? Right? What is the payoff? What do I gain? What do I lose from being that superwoman? In this case I accepted help. My mom's coming for a couple of days, and at first I was like, I don't need to inconvenience you, mum. I don't need your help. It's going to be an inconvenience for her. But my mom really wanted to help.
Monique: and so I'm finally in the resting place of just receive the help she wants to give it to you. Who cares? You're her baby, no matter how old you are and what is wrong with receiving help. Superwoman needs help, too.
Monique: Yeah, so and I think that example with your mom is an example of not feeling. So change.
Monique: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so really.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really, I can. I can just feel that for you, and I'm so glad that you have surgery scheduled, and I'm so glad that you are receiving and accepting support in all of your super woman.
Monique: Yes, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica's saying in the chat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in general, feeling like, we just tend to make things harder for ourselves than they need to be with this archetype. It's as if we believe the only way to feel well is to feel sick first, so we make ourselves sick so that we can recover and feel well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we have a sense of. I made that good thing happen. So then we continue on in that cycle.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oof.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. Well, I'm glad we're stirring the cauldron. Kinda let it all simmer. We'll take a break, and then we'll keep on going. So let's take 15 min, and we'll come back at 1245, and then I suspect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll go a couple of minutes past 2 before we take our longer break to Eastern, so let's come back at 1245 Eastern, and I'll hang out here for a few minutes if anybody needs anything right now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hey? If
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you are back and can put your camera on. Let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So you know that you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna keep on going.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna continue to learn more about this image of the devil. But on the card and and where we're gonna go next is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna use the card in a similar way to how we looked at in our last retreat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So in a few minutes I'm gonna invite. I'll put the image back on the screen and I'm gonna invite you to have a little bit of a dialogue
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the the archetypal energy of the devil. I have a couple of questions that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd like for you to ask it and journal on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's the thing about it that is really important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): As you go to connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the archetypal energy of the devil and channel what it has to say for you, and write it down. Be clear
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you are not connecting
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the energy that religion has told you the devil is right, evil incarnate. You know all of that. We're we're not looking to connect with or embody that energy today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're looking to make better friends with the archetypal energy of the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we've looked at so far, right? So the one that changed us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the one we've made a deal with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The one that is so is so hypnotic that we feel compelled
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to that energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that make sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right cause. Even if we've learnt this. It's so easy to revert back to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All you know, all of the cultural definitions of the devil. But again, we're kind of looking to shift
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So that being said. let me bring the image back on the screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you don't have to. For this one. You have to go so deep into connecting. If you don't feel like connecting so deeply with the energy, either. You know whatever feels right for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But we're gonna channel, some higher wisdom from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the devil, from the archetypal energy of the double.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I invite you, in whatever way is aligned for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to connect in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as we've been defining it today
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with that energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it might be helpful to, even, you know, connect in with the hypnotic stare of of the image
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll connect in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with its highest wisdom.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, once you feel you've made some kind of connection with this energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask it to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right through you. And the first question is, why have you got me chained?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's see what it wants to write.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't think it. Just kinda let it let it right. See what it wants to say. Why do you have any change?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why have you got me changed?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're having trouble. You can just start writing the words, I have you chained because and then just see what wants to come through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Don't worry. If what comes through is right or wrong. let it come through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Why have you got me changed?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take one more moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe you wanna just look at the image again. If it's helpful, reconnect with that architle
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): energy we've been looking at of the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what do I get
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from the deal that I've made from with you? What is it that I get right, not for you. What do I get? Asked? It's highest. Ask the devil's highest wisdom. What do I get from the deal that I've made with you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you getting from it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do I get from the deal that I've made with you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and promise you you get something?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take one more moment with this question, and then we've got one more for the double.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So again, connect with the energy in whatever way is right for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask the devil from its highest wisdom. What does it want you to know about your obsession
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from its highest wisdom? What does it want you to know about your obsession
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with money. with popularity, right? Whatever whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does it want you to know about that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from its highest wisdom? What does it. Want you to know about your obsession.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take another half minute. Wrap up the writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're done writing, you can read over everything that came through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'd love to hear some shares. What's coming together. What's sparking for you? What are you seeing if we haven't heard your voice yet? I really wanna hear your voice. If we have already heard your voice, wanna hear it again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): He wants to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you seeing? What's coming through? What's feeling important
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in ball.
Inbal Sansani: yeah, I really believe it's kind of like so sweet to have and necessary. It's like a shadow reset or tune up
Inbal Sansani: and You know, there were some things that felt like you know, ancestral around like fitting in. And you know, and not being
Inbal Sansani: a target
Inbal Sansani: and
Inbal Sansani: the.
Inbal Sansani: It's really it. It's striking to me, just, you know, in these like 3 questions in a few minutes, like the memories and the patterns that come up.
Inbal Sansani: and so like
Inbal Sansani: able to see like kind of how it played out and also how it has
Inbal Sansani: you know, improved, but kind of the the different ways that it has played out in different, you know, phases in
Inbal Sansani: in my life. And so it's also like bringing you know, like compassion.
Inbal Sansani: you know, and love for for these younger for these younger parts. So it's like, you're just really thinking about like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that spiral? Yeah.
Inbal Sansani: And
Inbal Sansani: yeah. And then also, like. you know, was like.
Inbal Sansani: for the last question, it was like, you know, you can create your own safety. And then it's also like you are.
Inbal Sansani: you know, like in in your own ways, and that it's it's part of the process. It's ongoing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I feel so so much greater than that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes. Grace, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think empowerment too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. I'm so glad all of that came through. It all feels really important.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Greg.
Gregg Berman: between these questions and then earlier, some Some comments that both inbound and Veronica were making in the chat. Give me this awareness of how much
Gregg Berman: for me. It's around
Gregg Berman: controlling my emotions, controlling, not feeling uncomfortable emotions. And that I'm I'm doing or not doing these things to try and save myself from the risk of feeling something uncomfortable, the risk of abandonment, myth, the risk of shame, the risk of all these different things, and
Gregg Berman: and how I'm abandoning myself by by doing these behaviors, how I'm staying duck in the very emotions that I'm trying to avoid, because I'm putting all this energy into avoiding them, and
Gregg Berman: with the last question.
Gregg Berman: it was a thing of
Gregg Berman: It's okay to feel them. You are safe and even feeling they're they're not gonna cut. The negative emotions won't come up as often as I think they will, and even if they do, that's empowerment I get to. I get to be stronger I get to. Not only be there for myself, but be there for others through feeling them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Craig. I'm getting so many chills as you're sharing this. It feels important for you and just for all of us right, that that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the you're talking first about abandoning, and then in the end about how the negative emotions. There's discomfort in them, but they're ultimately empowering. And what popped for me is actually, when we're able to meet our negative emotions. That is the opposite of abandoning ourselves.
Gregg Berman: Yeah, yeah, my last line is means being there for yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. So glad all of that came up next. Stop! Go ahead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Hey? Cool! This is potent. And as I shared with my group when you opened Joanna, I was like, Oh, shit! That's what we're here for today.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I'm really grateful. And Veronica had shared in the chat the piece about the health and the recovering, and something like, so it just penetrated me. And so I followed that one
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): for this and and over the break as well, was just feeling into this health piece, and how so many health issues, and as a result many compulsions emerged from my time in Central America, where I was very sick, like almost dead sick. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I have a whole book to write. That's like, been outlined about that experience.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I am about to open my befriend your body program to like something just went deeper today. And in it
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I realize that if if I'm like busy with the compulsions that are keeping me well, then one I can't get too big or too bright, but the deeper part there is actually
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): that being sick, or having the vulnerability of being sick makes me
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): match those I serve.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Which is this it not match them? It makes me less powerful than I would be if I stepped into my power.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and when I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): take that piece of I mean. It's a little bit of the martyr, but it's it's like allowing myself to be
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): hurting or sick, or have autoimmune, or whatever is going on.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I actually can align more with those who have been disempowered. Because I'm not fully
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): in my power, and therefore I am safer, and I can't be. I can't be cast out or said. You're just a white girl
wanting to do good.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And oh, it's so big! And just in this conversation with the devil. It was really exploring those pieces of like you get to be accepted, and nobody can call you out and say you're not in alignment if you're in suffering.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and the in the very end you in the wisdom place it was your safe. You're safe. You're safe. And actually the chains are an illusion. They're actually just in the picture right here.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I know. Yeah. So I just say, it is like rippling through me right now. It's really really big. But I feel like I can feel that the energy, even through the zoom II really can feel it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feels so so important and important. Not just for you, Kelly, but for all of the people that you serve and support.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Totally. Yeah, thank you so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know. Jennifer.
Jennifer Kittredge: Hi, so what came through for me is when he first said was, I don't have you changed? You handed me the chains like you have given these to me, and you know, that's basically it was, you know, my like, ha! What's the deal I made is like, I get to blame something else instead of looking at myself, and so that was really. And if he said, I have no power
Jennifer Kittredge: over you, no control over you except for what you've given me. And then at the end of it, it was basically what came out was
Jennifer Kittredge: like, I didn't want to take up too much space and make other people uncomfortable. And it was like, you need to take up space. Your work is important and women need to heal. And yeah, so that was really, this is real like Kelly said it. So pot. And it's so big, it's just amazing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I can feel it. I'm so glad that came through. And a lot of your shares where we're going next. So the change.
Jennifer Kittredge: yeah, thank you, Nicole.
Nicole Harris: What came through for me was was a lot of the same kind of idea. II was staring at his, you know his hypnotic gaze. And what came to mind was, I am power itself.
Nicole Harris: I have you changed as a show of my power, this power that, in fact, your power, my chaining you, has to do with your own denial of this power, this innate power that you possess. I have you changed because you deny the power, this power daily you have changed yourself.
Nicole Harris: and yeah, that it's an excuse, and that I will.
Nicole Harris: but essentially
Nicole Harris: it's it's a way of
Nicole Harris: keeping myself in health.
Nicole Harris: an excuse to berate myself. And yeah, so I will always stay stuck. You always stay stuck to me as long as you
Nicole Harris: as long as oh, no, I can't read my handwriting, but it's I am specific. It is specific. As long as you deny the power. Essentially, you're, it's specifically designed to keep you on how
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): my power is your power right? It's actually your power, and the more that you deny it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the more you're gonna be stuck.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): lot, right. This there's so much to this archetype and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, let's keep on going, and this has already come through, and some of your shares, and some of what I'm seeing in the chat as well. So let's look at. Let's look at the image again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I now want us to really focus on the chains right? The chains have been coming through in your writing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you notice about the chains? Look at the chains around their necks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you notice about the chain?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you can just take yourself off mute and share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share? What are you noticing and seeing
Veronica Jensen: I can share about this? It actually came through in my writing, but I hadn't noticed on the card. But now that I'm looking, they're loose like they could remove them at any time, and that's part of what came through for me is. Here's if you look closely, there's no key that you need to remove this. You just need to be able to see it, to really see it in order to remove it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 100% who just spoke because I have it in share mode. I should know all of your voices right now. But it's Veronica you don't know. I thought it was Veronica. Yes, exactly. Do you all see that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sorry around there?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tick.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shade off the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is holding them to nothing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): want to pause on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The devil is holding them to nothing. They are not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): actually change.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we're under the power, right, that we think we're under the power of the devil we feel when we're in the compulsion, we feel like we're chained. We feel like we have no agency. We feel like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have to check social media. I have to do this thing. I have right all the all the things that you've all been mentioning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But actually, we're free to go whenever we choose. We have agency.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've just been tricked into thinking that we don't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We might feel as though these things are beyond our control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But that's part
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the illusion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We are more in control. then, we think.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we're not bound. It's almost as if we.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think somebody else already spoke to this. It's about the prisons we create for ourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And Nicole spoke to this. It's about how we then give power away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The highest purpose of the devil archetype is to remind us that we indeed have a choice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And let's pause on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Theresa saying, the chains aren't connected to the even connected to the devil they're connected, or I'll show this screen one more time. They're connected to the to the chair. I think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What else wants to be said unless
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear a couple shares. What's sparking for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina.
Tina: when you said keeping the teams on is giving your power away.
Tina: It actually made me feel even more motivated not to keep the chains on. Just those words were like enough for me to be like
Tina: what I'm giving you. My power like this is by choice. That's crazy. You know.
Tina: I'm not going to do it anymore.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We can totally flip our relationship to the compulsion. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good, Teresa.
Teresa Lea: So for me, the thing that really came through for me is that the chains were we're connected to
Teresa Lea: other people. And what that meant for me is that it was relating to the beliefs we have
Teresa Lea: about other people and not about the devil itself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that insight. Let's show the image again, cause it's so true. I had never thought of it this way, but actually chained to the devil. They're more chained to each other than anything else. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then what are those beliefs that we have about where we fit in, or how people accept us or other people right, all all the things that then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): compulsions I love. I love that layer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of this image
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you're bringing forward so true. I never thought about that before.
Inbal Sansani: Joanna. Can you repeat that I didn't really get it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Teresa was pointing out. Did you see in the image how they're not actually chained to the devil, but they are chained to each other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So one interpretation on the change here that trace is saying is that so many of these compulsions are related to the ways that we feel change to other people, our beliefs about what people might think about us, or what people need from us or the world, or you know, however, you wanna extrapolate on that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia is going little deeper with it and saying, it's like a collective consciousness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Monique.
Monique: I don't know if anybody else saw this, but I noticed the heart
Monique: in that card, and
yep.
Monique: was the first thing I saw. I know people were looking at different aspects, you know, staring to his eyes or whatever. But I thought, Okay, let's look at the center, and the center is the belly button, and if you follow the path around his knee down to his ankles, where they both touch, there is a heart there, so there is nothing but love in this card, and these 2 people have been gifted. Everything that they need to come through whatever obsession, wha whatever
Monique: whatever they're struggling through, whatever they're chained to. They've been gifted fire. passion. They have been gifted wings.
Monique: they have been gifted. The strength in the horns. The Upside down star is the light. The female. I can't quite make out what is on her tail, but it looks like grapes to me.
Monique: like everything that you need is is here.
Monique: So I think more than anything, I was just fascinated with the heart.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that interpretation, and I don't know if we'll have time. Towards the end of the day. But if we do well, we're gonna take a look at the the lover
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): card, because the lover is actually directly related to the devil. It has 2 people in it as well. It's about being in right relationship
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to others, to other people and other things. And so I love already, Monique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I had never seen that heart before, but I love that. You're seeing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: the
Suzanne Culberg: what you guys were just saying about the chain to each other rather than the devil. What came up for me was that saying, the devil may care which is like, you know, easy going carefree. It's like when we're worrying about what people think. Are we worrying about what we're tied to? Or we worry about what other people think
Suzanne Culberg: cause the devil's not attached so, and literally in the picture not attached. So that's what was just coming through. I love that that's great. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and invol
Inbal Sansani: sorry I was taking notes. I have kind of like a practitioner question, but I can wait
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no, go ahead.
Inbal Sansani: So when we were doing the imagery right, it's like we were more like here you framed and tool started out by telling us what to see.
Inbal Sansani: And then it's like, then opened it up. So I'm just curious about. Obviously, that was intentional. Right? So that's why I was saying
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this morning is more. I mean, you could take the time. Explain all of this to a client that's working with a compulsion, and all the things I've shared, and then do the exercises of this morning. But, I maybe I didn't articulate this. Well, at the beginning of the day, I was saying to this morning is more just for us to understand fully all of the issues here, and I'm taking us through this journey with the cards to understand the issues.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The more technique we're gonna learn in the afternoon. That's separate from the cards. But that being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it would probably take a whole session, if if it felt right for a particular client, because they have some like a compulsion and obsession and attachment that keeps on coming up. You've looked at it from a fear standpoint, or this, that, or the other thing, and you wanna get at it in a different way. You could bring this to a session, do some education on the archetype, and then some of the journaling
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that we're looking at now that make sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Let me see in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica is saying. So many have mentioned Gabormati today since his work is related. I know he likes to say that the opposite of addiction is connection. Yes, which feels relevant to this and Teresa's share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maria, the let me see if I can show you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so the heart that Monique saw. I don't know if you can see the little pointer. I see it on my screen. I'm pointing at it. But if you look at his legs right like right underneath his belly, button is the top of the heart, and then, if you follow the outline of his legs down to his clawed feet and around. That's where the heart is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have this in here as a little point
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just make as we can, you know. Look at these chains and our agency and and that we have power is just a question
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you are doing. The compulsive behaviors.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you choosing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): instant gratification for a need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if it's at the expense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of your long-term well-being and getting the need met in a better way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So when you engage in that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever the compulsive behavior is, is it possible that you're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kinda because we are at choice, choosing a path of instant gratification. even if it's the at the expense of long-term well-being.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for putting that in the chat, Veronica.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Caroline's saying always.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay. Some questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some of you, I think, have already identified this, but I'll just ask it anyway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So whatever it is that you've been working with, what's the actual illusion?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's what is the illusion. So Alicia shared an example earlier, like the illusion is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): she
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That everything she does that her, if if she does all the things that her son is. Gonna take them in in a particular way, and then that's gonna ensure his. I forget the words he used, Alicia happiness or well-being, or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe the illusion for you is, if I just get more likes on the social media, then I'm going to be a worthy human being.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I ongoing and work with my compulsion to stay up late. I am at the end of the day, and the kids are finally asleep, and we've cleaned everything in the house. John and I always watch
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): an episode of something.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we should go to bed after that. But we end up late, you know, staying up later and all. You know all the things, and it's like no, no, no, but cause this is my time. This is me time. It's not work, and it's not the kids.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's a little truth to it, right? But like part of the illusion is that I'm gonna be more nourished if I stay up later during this me time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what's the actual illusion?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I know this came up, and already, and some of your journaling for some of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I'll ask it anyway.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): instead of the devil, or like whatever the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): illusion is having power over you. How have you actually been giving your power away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And why have you been giving your power
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And in the chat?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How have you actually been giving your power away to this thing. And why?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Another thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to think about another question so hopefully, you'll remember from sacred depths. One of the things we look at is the principle of choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And that is whenever we're working with a client to remember that almost always
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they have a choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, and sometimes from practitioner standpoint we can forget and think they can only do it this way, or can only do it this way, or whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even if there's not an outer choice. There is a choice to think, to feel about something differently, or think about something differently most of the time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So in whatever you've been working with today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What choice do you actually have?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What choice? What is the choice that you actually have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could be as simple as going to bed by 100'clock. That is actually a choice. But to to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if if that's it, I want you to take a moment and actually see it as a choice, a viable option, a viable choice that you have choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the matter.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What choice do you actually have?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? And maybe it's not that simple. Maybe
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if it's with, you know, and the the compulsion or obsession or attachment is around another human being. You know. Maybe you can't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): say this, but you can say that right? There is actually that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or maybe
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you can't go to bed at 10 every day. Maybe that isn't an actual choice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): 3 days a week or 1030. Right? So what? What? What are the actual choices here that you have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): remembering that that chain is loose way looser than you think. It is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, whatever that choice is that you just identified. I do just want to make space for a moment. not for just this to be a cognitive activity. But for you to take a moment and feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of you. you may not choose that choice. Right? That's another story
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): get to this afternoon, but that you but that it is a viable choice. Can you feel that inside of you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is actually a choice. You have power here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No need to continue with the illusion that there isn't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jessica.
Jessica: Oh, I just. I love this, and it's reminding me of in the Jewish spiritual practice of Musar. One of the exercises that you can do is
Jessica: make a commitment during the week to just pause for 1 s before you do a certain action.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I love that like not even commit to making a different choice, but just committing to that 1 s pause, so that you start to notice that you do have a choice. I'm so glad you're bringing that in. Yeah, right? Even if you end up choosing the same thing, the empowerment and the choice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's another question.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What would you need to believe to stay
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a place of choice with this thing?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What would you need to believe to stay in a place of choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with this time? Whatever you're working with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we'll have space for shares in a little bit. I wanna just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of keep on rolling with this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and go a little bit deeper.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have the image back on the screen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're gonna connect in and dialogue with the chains, the loose chains right, the chains that are very loose around the neck that can be taken off
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at any point or whatever resonates with you about the change chains. You know the change to other people right? What would eat but with the loose?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So take a moment and connect in with the archetypal energy of these particular chains
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that we're working with here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): These loose chains
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that feel type sometimes. or maybe always up until now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as you come into connection with these chains, with the archetypal energy of the chains.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ask them to write through you and ask them what from their highest wisdom, what do they want you to know?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do the chains really want you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in general about this compulsion? You've been working with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do they want you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the chains? Want you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): another half minute or so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When you're done, you can read over what you've written.
Great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm gonna go into breakout rooms again. and same as last time. So mostly groups of 3, one group of 4
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if you're in a group of 3 you'll have about 4 min each. If you're in a group of 4 you'll have about 3 min each, but I always throw in an extra minute or 2
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to cushion and just share anything that is is feeling important. From this morning, so far from this last set of journaling questions and exercise, or in general, like, What's what's what are you really seeing? What's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coming through for you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'll see you all in a little bit enjoy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): welcome back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so I'd love to. They don't get to listen in I'd love to hear some shares. Why
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is feeling important? What are you really seeing?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica?
Veronica Jensen: Yeah, I'll share the story I shared with my partners because it came up. It's not what I have been working on today. But
Veronica Jensen: when you had us connect with the archetypal energy of the chains, this came up but
Veronica Jensen: is also health related has been a big last year for me, but in early December I went ice skating, and I fell, and I injured my arm.
Veronica Jensen: No breaks but connected to shoe injuries, and it got about 70% better over a few weeks and then plateaued and hasn't gotten better from there.
Veronica Jensen: and I know I could try heating and icing some more. My massage therapist recommended like Canisio taping. But I haven't really done any of that.
Veronica Jensen: and I was talking to my therapist about the other day and realizing part of me just doesn't believe it's gonna do much at this point. It's gonna be what it is. I don't have much control over it control, but also part of me is avoiding doing anything because I'm punishing myself for making the silly choice to randomly go ice skating in my forties that I brought this on myself.
Veronica Jensen: and now I just have to deal with it. But in some ways connected to the chains I went. Oh, right! The chains are going. You don't need to punish yourself.
Veronica Jensen: You don't need to believe that you deserve the change because you brought this on yourself. You can choose to take them off at any time, appreciate them, appreciate the lesson, put them aside, and care for yourself because you deserve it, and you can make a difference in that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that it's so beautiful, and it almost feels like, yeah, you went from being chained to this idea that you did anything wrong you that you did something wrong by going ice skating
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to seeing that that's not the case.
Veronica Jensen: And I love how Greg put it! How dare you do something fun and live your life
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so good. Thank you for sharing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia.
Alicia Morrow: I'm just feeling into that the push pull dynamic of. because I think sometimes the
Alicia Morrow: the compulsion or the obsession, or the attachment comes from wanting to control, wanting to have power. Yeah. and be able to influence something. And so I'm I am personally feeling just the push, pull dynamic between
Alicia Morrow: when to show up and exert power
Alicia Morrow: and influence, and when to back off and surrender and trust.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I love that. And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it relates to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what we're gonna the technique we're gonna look at. I think it's it's what you speed to is a lot at the heart of okay. Now, this is all great understanding and awareness which could take us far. But you know, then what can we do next to shift? And I think it's it's a it gets at this like we have these needs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So what do we do about these needs. So I'm so glad you're bringing that into the conversation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? Time for another share to Lisa?
Lisa Farr: One of the things I was talking with in my group was, it's it was the response to what would I need to believe to stay in choice.
Lisa Farr: And the belief is that it's actually the pattern that is keeping me from the very thing I want.
Lisa Farr: So it's the pursuing of something is stopping it. Being. Has that any sense
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it does. It reminds me a little bit of wheel of sabotage. And if someone else mentioned that earlier today, too, in the chat, but I love to me as you're saying, that with some use it's the pattern. What I feel is an ease, as you say, that because it's easier to start poking holes and kind of pulling apart patterns.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Then I'll like, I need this thing. So even with that, it feels like there's so much more power in looking at it that way.
Lisa Farr: Yeah, yeah, it is. It's the compulsion that's it's the pursuing part of it. I think that's like the hamster wheel, the wheel of self sabotage because it made me think of that. It's like, Oh.
the pursuing is keeping me from the love, the appreciation, and the being, the superstar in the moment
Lisa Farr: that's already here, cause I'm keeping looking for it somewhere else. Mad?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, you get to have it now.
Lisa Farr: Huh? Who would have thought it.
Lisa Farr: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel like there's one more share before we take our longer breath.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wants to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's feeling important, especially here. I love to hear everybody's voice, and especially if you haven't yet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): spoken up. I'd love to hear you, too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or also, if you're not resonating with anything that we're looking at today. That's okay, too, right? But what are you taking? Even if it's kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and a different angle or perspective
Michelle Cohen: can share?
Michelle Cohen: it's just
Michelle Cohen: I'm sitting with
Michelle Cohen: as I just kind of slowly allow this process to kind of unfold.
Michelle Cohen: It just took me a little while to connect with the devil, and to kind of like drop
Michelle Cohen: into the
Michelle Cohen: the layers. But I just kind of trusted like, just
Michelle Cohen: kept going with the questions.
Michelle Cohen: and
Michelle Cohen: I'm just. It's definitely helping me get in touch with some heavier feelings around stuff. And
Michelle Cohen: who? What's come into my awareness is
Michelle Cohen: what I have perceived as my innate
Michelle Cohen: sense of balance or need for balance, or I want to balance life like, what does that even mean?
Michelle Cohen: And how
Michelle Cohen: you know, I I do know myself
Michelle Cohen: well enough, at least on the surface, to know if I
Michelle Cohen: let me find the different words
Michelle Cohen: in my illusion of creating balance how much I overextend myself within my balance, so like
Michelle Cohen: Well, I have this kind of work so I can. I am my own boss.
Michelle Cohen: II don't have to be in that in work environment where I have the pressure of you know, pressures
Michelle Cohen: bigger than I could actually handle. So I have. So
Michelle Cohen: it it's sort of like the wormhole and the wormhole, or the rabbit hole. So it so, anyway. so that's just one. And then on the other. It's like
a.
Michelle Cohen: If I
Michelle Cohen: keep my balance like I'm this is what's actually keeping me regulated.
Michelle Cohen: But then, again, within that, like, I'm moving beyond capacity. I'm it's it's it's in in the it's like you're sacrificing the inner balance in order for the the things to look balanced on the outside. So that's the
And
Michelle Cohen: yeah.
Michelle Cohen: and so that like, just be
Michelle Cohen: big enough. Just be little enough. Just be
Michelle Cohen: big little enough, like some not like.
Michelle Cohen: don't stretch yourself, but stretch yourself enough like, just get that tiny bit of feedback. Okay, that's enough. Like I. It's like a kind of a strange like my visibility. So I was kind of seeing like. Well.
Michelle Cohen: why am I giving my life for send like? Why is my power like? Why, I'm like I might as well like. Here's my power. Here, here, you just take my power,
Michelle Cohen: and so, and and how the more the power feels like it's leaving. Either I grow smaller or I just choose to retreat like, how about? I just retreat, because that's the pattern I know, because that will keep me in balance.
Michelle Cohen: So that's just.
Michelle Cohen: But I've been kind of sitting with.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I'm so glad. Thank you for sharing. I'm so glad all of this is coming up it. It feels Michelle, like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this morning. You've really started to poke holes in this illusion that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you've kind of that you've been operating under and not even kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it. It's seeing that you can question it, and you can pull holes in this thing that seem like such a truth. I must create balance.
Michelle Cohen: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, I think this is a good moment for us to take our longer break.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take Let's take an hour and come back
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at 305,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we'll keep on going and we'll eventually get to a demo of a technique, and then we'll have opportunity to practice it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So actually, I take it back, let's come back at 3. Let's just eve even it off at 3, so we'll come back at 3 Eastern. I'll hang out for a few minutes if anybody needs me. If not, I'll see you at 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, if you're here. And you can put your camera on, let me know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or put it on. I should say
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so hard to know when people are back when we're online.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, or let me know in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hey, Vlada? Happy? You're here? I'm sorry you missed this morning.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and you know the recording will be there for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. what's moving through you? What's resonating from before the break? What?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ha's are happening? Where are you struggling?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maria.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can't hear you. I think you didn't put yourself take. Yeah.
pollymolly: I forget
pollymolly: I've been thinking about the change. And and
pollymolly: I thought
pollymolly: for some reason I thought they also provide like security.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Talk more about that.
pollymolly: Yeah, I don't know if it's right or or but I thought that if you are a person.
pollymolly: that are Jane. Maybe you. You kind of rely also on on that. That. Something bigger is more responsible for your own.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, yeah, that's III think this is such an important piece. And I'm so glad that you're bringing it in. It's like for some of us for as much as we don't want the chains.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they provide safety and almost a sense what I'm hearing you say, which II agree with of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we don't have to take responsibility. There's something bigger at play here. I'm just compelled. I'm chained to this thing. It's a another way of not being in our power. Right? I kind of relinquish that something else's taking over here and there can also feel a safety in that right? Yeah, I mean, and you know just as we're talking about it. The other piece of that that comes up for me is that could be familiar
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from parental relationships or teacher relationships or any other relationships in our lives, where it's like the chain
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): had us feel like this. and like we maybe don't have power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it also kept us safe. Exactly. I mean, I have. I have the choice, you know, but it's actually kind of good here, right? It's scarier to have the choice and harder. Yeah, I'm so glad you're bringing that forward. I think it's it's an important piece and layer and all of this. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In ball
Inbal Sansani: a little bit related in the last breakout room. 2 out of the 4 of us
and
Inbal Sansani: you know, had it come up like.
Inbal Sansani: you know, you can leave and get out of the chain like, and you can come back if you want, and that there's also like a choice around that and
Inbal Sansani: someone else.
Inbal Sansani: made an observation that really resonated with me, that, like
Inbal Sansani: removing the chains and getting out
Inbal Sansani: from the chains. also, being mindful that that doesn't become its own obsession and attachment completely, which I thought was was brilliant, and for me it was like.
Inbal Sansani: you can come back if you want, and just stand here, which is a little judgy. and you can go. But it like really emphasizing the the choice.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love that. And on a personal level it reminds me, it actually makes me think about my phone, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oftentimes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll go months and months without the email on the social media, on my phones, which is the right choice, and then sometimes something will happen, and I'll choose to put it back on for a period of time. And what your share is making me realize is actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in those moments that II choose to put it back on. That's an empowering choice for me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's when I just let it go longer than it needs to before taking it back off my phone. You then then the change kind of shift and change
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a different way. So the you can come back piece, I think, is also just another reminder that almost none of these compulsions in and of themselves are bad. Right? We've looked at this over and over in advance. We've we're gonna try to make almost nothing bad or wrong. But it's also, how are we using it? Is the question.
Inbal Sansani: yeah, the ability to why are you making a conscious choice, or are you in the illusion? Yeah, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes. Good. Who else? What else has been coming through observations. What you're seeing or where you're having, where you're struggling a little bit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel like there's one more share that wants to be spoken
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): could be wrong.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nicole.
Nicole Harris: Okay, let's see.
Nicole Harris: can you hear me? Okay. Now, I think I'm connected. I will just share a quick celebration that I was reminded of my choice.
Nicole Harris: and how I want to feel better in my body. And so I took 10 min out of the break and did a high impact.
Nicole Harris: Interval training thing on my phone. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yay, that is a celebration. And that's awesome. And one of the things I love about is. It's like the way you're sharing it was. It was easy, in a way. Take 10 min. The choice here is II actually do have 10 min, and I can do this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): said.
Nicole Harris: and not make not making it such a big deal like, oh, I have to have a half an hour in order to do this. And that's that was one of the things that identified that was keeping me
Nicole Harris: pained. Oh, I can just do it in 10 min. Okay.
Nicole Harris: yeah, it's like, it's not. That's part of the illusion, right? That it has to look this way. And I'm only going to get benefit if I do it this way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And invo? You can feel free to ask your question now is a good time for it.
Inbal Sansani: Kind of like from a practitioner.
Inbal Sansani: perspective. And maybe I like II missed something also
Inbal Sansani: is that.
Inbal Sansani: you know, and all of like the writing and the reflection.
Inbal Sansani: there's a few different things like we haven't really
Inbal Sansani: kind of like committed to to one and maybe like, that's we're gonna do that before the the practice. So it's interesting because it can be
Inbal Sansani: in my experience. It's like, can be the, you know, the constantly checking email and not going to bed, you know on time. And
Inbal Sansani: you know, and then it's also like
Inbal Sansani: distracting by focusing on other people and or
Inbal Sansani: yeah, like downplaying my power. So it's interesting, like the different levels. And then, when it's like the less kind of practical or obvious
Inbal Sansani: things, then how to tie that into something you give an example.
Inbal Sansani: Yeah. So like how I you know, like I said, right like there's I have so many options.
Inbal Sansani: but the like. you know. How do I embody my power and
Inbal Sansani: you know, instead of being so focused on like what other people are doing right? So it's like bringing in the comparison. And it's not the like. Oh, like, just be you, or be your authentic self, but like really owning like divergences, or you know all of those things that are also related to the brilliances.
Inbal Sansani: So then it's like. okay, what are the choices around this like on a more grounded like practical level?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So if I'm understanding correctly. So there's always more than one entry way into something right? Cause you could do some shadow work, more shadow work around the neuro divergent piece, or you know, whatever it is, and that that would be one way in I think it'll come together when we look at the technique, and then coming out of the technique to ask that same question, that last question that you asked again, of what are my choices, you know, which is what we've been kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): looking at. My hope is that the technique?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We'll open that up even more, and we'll help
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): everybody feel more compelled to the other to whatever the other choice is, if that's right for them. So we'll see always an experiment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you haven't yet shared. But you're struggling. Just let me know, so I can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): track you and help you. And also I don't mean to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): single anyone out, and you don't see you on camera. But, Caroline, I've just been
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wanting to hear from you just because of the work that you do
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on what's coming up for you, and and mute insights that you have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you want to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't see you on the screen, so he might not be here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But anybody else want to share. I know I'm gonna wait and see if a hand rises or not. I just need to run and turn my heat off or not. Give me 1 s
Caroline’s iPhone: Hi!
Caroline’s iPhone: Hi! Not to put you on the spot. But oh, no, not at all. Like a piece of wisdom to bring to us, or just something that's striking you just because of the work that you do. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, II think I'll so much of it. It's always brilliant.
Caroline’s iPhone: but I think that
Caroline’s iPhone: I mean, I think one of the things that's really coming through for me at the moment, which is probably not what you're looking for at the moment, but like it's just the slowing down and acknowledging, because I hear so often. It's just a habit it's like I can't get out of this cycle and blah blah blah blah blah. But then
Caroline’s iPhone: recognize I talk a lot about
Caroline’s iPhone: You know, the shift between.
Caroline’s iPhone: I actually I don't. I don't even know I'm going with there. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I haven't fully formed any thoughts. But I'm I'm loving everything you're saying. How about that? Well, I'm good. It's an opportunity to underscore the slowing down. Caroline works with women who have quit drinking or wanna? They have already quit drinking. I do both. I do. Women that want to.
Caroline’s iPhone: want to drink less. And then. yeah, my program is with people that have already kind of gotten over that hump. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, so the slowing down piece which Jessica mentioned earlier, too. Of, okay, if we can have this space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to see the illusion. And to see the choices right, and to see the chains actually can be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): taking, you know, taken off by us then, that that. Ha! Just that alone can change so much.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: I was just gonna piggyback off in boles. Share something you just said made a connection for me
Suzanne Culberg: in bullshit about, you know, looking to other people like when we look to others. And I thought, Well, yes.
Suzanne Culberg: but also their change, too. So it's not just our own chains or tethers that then we get entangled, or we can with their own chains to that, and it makes it even more like a web.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, it's like a version of the shadow dance. Our chains start interacting with other people's chains or reacting to other people's chains. And yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's an important point. Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): A couple things one. I just realized I was feeling so tired after the first section. So I had this plan to spend the hour working, and I just took a nap.
I was like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Wow, I mean, I'm I still feel sleepy, but I feel good.
And then
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the other piece. There's just so much that's resonating with everyone shares. And I'm as always in your space, just like so humbled and amazed and in awe and delighted by just the humanity of all of us, and it just makes me feel more in love with
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the work
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): that I'm gonna say that I do. But I don't mean that in egotistical way, just like, you know that we're here doing. And II just like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): so in love with my work and my clients, and just this journey, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): how the more I step into support them, the more I like have to step in for myself to continue an integrity.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then there were just a couple of their observations. One I haven't quite formulated this thought, but when Lisa said, I am compulsive about doing this transformational work. I'm like, Yeah, I get that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then I was remembering just I don't know. Maybe last week maybe it was in the midst of our other workshop. But it was this moment of of just saying, What if I let all of it go like? What if I never had a client again.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and it was like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): sounds really stupid, saying it out loud, but it just felt very devilish to entertain the idea of just letting it all go.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and then I'm relating that back to and of course I don't want to let it all go. I love it. But it was a little bit of just that. What happens if we release? And then it reminded me, as I was looking in at the conversation with the double about the chains.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and how
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and the messaging was, if I keep you close. And it was reminding me of like oh, what Alicia was saying about her child and my own stuff around, children, and what you shared about children, your children? But just like if I you know, if I keep you in close or I'm held in close. Then I can't go too far, but I also won't get lost, and I won't go off trail. I'll just keep doing the hamster wheel thing which is safe, and it's known, and it's steady.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But it's not liberating. And and so there was this just place of like feeling the liberation and entertaining all the possibilities. And then the last thing was this, just sparked now, and I don't know where it came from, but it was that it was a male and a female, and I know it's an old deck of cards. They have the same one, but it's a male and a female representative, and they are bound together
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): with a chain in between them, with the male at one end and the female on the other end.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and they're not even tied to the devil. But there's also this place of patriarchy and living on the binary. And just this idea, and this is like so much up in my world right now about
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): just like all the ways, not just in terms of gender and sexuality, but that we live in this binary reality. And and we actually can move along this continuum
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a way that's really beautiful. But part of the chaining is, it's showing us it's like it's so on the binary couple of pieces. But just this last piece I just love that observation about the binary, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the choices are in between the 2, just like myth of perfection. Right? So if we're looking at.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where are my choices in this compulsion? Oftentimes we get stopped up because it's either this or it's this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what else is this? Right? All of that.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And so I'm so glad you're bringing that forward.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There was something else. Oh, and a little bit of what you were sharing reminded me of Maria's share, too, like the safety. Yeah, you don't get to stray when you're in the chains, but you also get to be held close in that safe place. Oh, I know what it was. Sleep the taking a nap. Part of that is because this is such a big
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know, beginning, the double archety is a big, you know. It's a big energy, and but I just I might be spinning this too much. So you can tell me, Kelly, but I also wonder if cause for you. Overworking is the compulsion. So it's just. It's beautiful. And, Meta, that
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): you chose to take a nap. Yeah, really, it felt really big, even though I really want to finish my landing page. But I was like, it will be done when you are rested. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vlada. I'm sorry that you missed the morning. Yeah, it would make sense that you're not totally sure. And absolutely once the recording is up, go back and listen. But hopefully, you're pulling pieces from all these shares.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, before we before we go into our technique. I just a little diversion on 2 logistics pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So first is, next time we all meet as a group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we will be in person. We will be in 2 groups. but we will be in person. So some of us are meeting in March in Charlotte. Some of us are meeting in April, in Charlotte.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I cannot wait to be in person with those of you that are able to come. I know a few of you are still trying to sort some some pieces out. And so I wanna just this is the first time I've split a group into 2. II mentioned that at the beginning of the year. But I just wanna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): say it again. It's new for me, and I know I wanna acknowledge that there is a sadness in us not all being together.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That is, that is just a truth, and that that is a truth for me too.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and at the same time, along with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I also want to acknowledge and share that I really do believe we're all going to be able to receive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the most. And what's most aligned for us to receive in a little bit of the smaller groups, and I know that. And this will also be my facilitator learning as well. I know we'll be able to from our 2 in person groups bring it back together, and we're gonna be just as strong, even not stronger when we all all of us come back together in March
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we will be calling into the room anyone that is not there to be with us, so you will be with us energetically. In April we will be calling into the room anyone who's not physically in the room, so you will be with us energetically, and if anyone has any creative ideas. And I'm gonna think on this, too. I just, you know, maybe we can kinda like have some shares with the bigger group after each retreat as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I did just want to name that number one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the other piece also, if you haven't let us know I know some of you are just unsure because of life. Life. Things are happening as soon as you can. Let us know the better. I just for me to have a a number count really helps.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what else did I want to say about the retreats
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you should have? I'm guessing you already got information on hotel booking. There's a date. There's a deadline for the hotel, if you want to do it under the special rate that we secured.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're looking for a roommate post in the Facebook group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Any
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): logistical questions about the retreat?
No.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is in the emails that you'll get. But I'll just. I'll share this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And the the 3 days of the retreat, the first 2 days
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I reserve I plan on us ending.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I forget if the end time is, but I think is 5. But I reserve the right to go until 6 if we need it, because sometimes retreat. Time just takes a little more space. So so. But on the last day
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're done at the time that we said, we're done because I know people have to catch flights.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I really recommend, if at all possible, not scheduling client calls, or whatever for during the day, even during the evenings.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're gonna be tired.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think that's it. I wanted to say on the retreats.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The other
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thing I wanted to briefly mention. a number of you have already asked.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and which always, which makes me feel so good. And now is the time to really think about it. If it's something that your feel call, if you that you feel called to. Some of you have asked about doing advanced again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): many people do, advanced more than once, because, as you see, it's just like it's such rich material. And the second time around you kind of already cognitively know the thing. So you can kind of settle in to a deeper place
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with all of it. You have more opportunity for more mastery and more practice, and more just going into the details. The.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Here's one of the most important things to know. Well. So, first of all, the people that do it more than once love it, and they tell me that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they received even more the second time than the first time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But here's the thing that's so important. Jennifer spoke to this earlier as always.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm never, ever inviting you into anything into a training, into anything from a place of not good enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? You do not take advanced, to begin with, or again, from a like, I'm not. I'm not good enough. I'm not whole and complete.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can I will, Pinky, promise all of you. You are already, all of you, more than enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): An incredible
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): think about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): participating in, advanced again from a place of I want, and I feel called to go deeper
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for myself and for my work. my clients, my future clients. That's that's the place to make the decision from
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a gift and a thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all the the ways. You've already invested your time and your energy, and who you are into advanced
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as a graduate. If you would like to participate again. It's it nearly half off of what the full price is for this next cycle. So it's $4,800 paid in full for the entire program for the year.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or it's 12 payments
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of $400.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'll just. I'll pop all of that into the chat, and also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, here, let me just pop the current brochure, so you just can see all the dates and all the oops and all the bonuses.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'll pop those payment plans and the brochure them giving you doesn't have the payment plans special just for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you lose them and you want them, just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): reach out. And if you want to have a conversation also reach out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Teresa. Good question. I know you asked that over email, and I haven't gotten back to it. give me. I'll give me a day, and I'll let you know if you want to do. And if you want to do both again as well, it's not gonna be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): much more. But let me just I haven't sat with it yet.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all right. So we've done all of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): everything we've done so far today, like I said, to understand, to go deeper for ourselves, to understand the inner workings, the human behavior, the like all the pieces you can, of course, as I was sharing with Inbal.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do any of the A journaling questions the work with the card
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and imagery. You could go deeper into the card in the imagery. You can channel the voice of it like we looked at last. Retreat right for yourself or with clients. If you wanna go deeper with yourself on that card I recommend journaling from the pedestal or journaling, for you know there are lots of images we didn't look at in the card today. The the people, the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the pentacle on the devil's head. Right? All of that. You can go more deeply with it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you're gonna use. you know, depending on already how much context a client has.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If you're going to use any of the pieces from this morning, like I said earlier, you might have to just do first a little bit of consulting and education on some of the pieces that we looked at today, whether it's with the card itself, or just these ideas
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about compulsions and how they chain us, and etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All that being said, where we're gonna go next
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today is to look at a technique. a somatic technique that's based
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on all of the foundational pieces we've been pulling on so far today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): well, I guess I'll tell you this first. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what we're going to look at is a take. Yes, and Teresa, the technique is in the member center the instructions for it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But before everybody runs to go, get them. I'll give you the you'll have time later. I wanna make sure you're listening to what I'm saying next, because this isn't written
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the resource sheet
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at the heart of this technique
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is the following idea.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): none of our compulsive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): behaviors are inherently bad. That's number one. We already looked at that today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But to go deeper with that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are compulsive behaviors
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): are expressions. They might be misaligned expressions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but nonetheless
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): they are expressions of a need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of us that really wants to be met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They are expressions of a need inside of us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that really wants to be met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So, for example, maybe for you, the obsessive checking of email.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And this is part of the illusion. Right? Is that it helps you be in control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And there's a part inside of you that actually.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to feel safe. needs to feel like it has some control.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): staying up late at night. And this is a little bit for me when I do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That behavior is an expression of a need for me to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think in parts feel more pleasure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): At the end of my day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I feel pleasure throughout the day, but somehow, like all the tires like in pleasure, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's there's nothing inherently wrong with the need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can that sentence be put in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, trying to think in channeling. What did I say that the compulsive can somebody type? As I say, this started with the expressions are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, that's I know that's what you meant. That's exactly what I'm gonna say, Greg, and thank you for asking. And David already has it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): None of our compulsive behaviors are inherently bad. Our compulsive behaviors are expressions of a need inside of us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that really wants to be met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So maybe that need is love. Maybe that need is connection. Maybe that need is trust.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Maybe that need is confidence. Maybe that need is validation. Maybe that need is joy. Maybe that need is security. Maybe that need is pleasure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you all with me? Does that make sense so far
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in our society because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we put compulsions addiction. We started talking about that earlier, like, we put this in shadow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or we try not to do. We just stay. The compulsive behavior is bad, and I need to separate for myself from it. And I'm just not ever gonna do it anymore. usually. Why, that doesn't work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and why it's not helpful
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is because in doing that, we're also denying ourselves the deeper need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is activating the compulsive behavior.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. that was a big thought. Pause on that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's the sparking? How are you understanding? What I'm saying?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is this resonating? Let me know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, in ball.
Inbal Sansani: I think again, there's like a compassion or grace or softness that we can bring in when we recognize the need.
Inbal Sansani: and that it's an attempt to meet a need
Inbal Sansani: right? And then that also brings up more choice or options about like meeting
Inbal Sansani: other ways of meeting that that need.
Inbal Sansani: Sorry I had something else, but I totally spaced.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's okay. If it comes back close. Now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer?
Jennifer Kittredge: It's just bringing me back to? We're whole and complete just the way we are like, nothing's wrong. We just have this awareness around something that we want to shift. Or it's not. Yeah. So it's just that like foundation of, we're whole and complete. And nothing's wrong, like we're just shifting and moving. And yeah, so that feels good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love. II love that you're bringing that back in. And it's yes. Carolina saying, resonating, I love acknowledging how this is helping. So then can find other ways to meet needs that makes you feel good afterwards. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in ball.
Inbal Sansani: my question is
Inbal Sansani: right, that it's like when we're putting it in shadow. And it doesn't work because we're denying the deeper need. And I think it's also come up before.
Inbal Sansani: Can you speak to how this relates to?
Inbal Sansani: Or maybe it's like self sabotaging behaviors cause that's come up a couple of times, or like the wheel of self sabotage
Inbal Sansani: cause it seems like so
Inbal Sansani: inherently related. And maybe there isn't much of a distinction.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. I think it's a really good question. I haven't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): thought about it before. So what thoughts do you have? Or does anybody else have on this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's what is the relationship between this and self sabotage? Caroline, is that to answer.
Caroline’s iPhone: yeah, I just feel like it's the same thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Talk more.
Caroline’s iPhone: sorry I am in bed. I'm totally in bed. II I'm getting further and further down, like as the day goes fine
Caroline’s iPhone: the
Caroline’s iPhone: cause, if II see it as the self sabotage is choosing the chains.
Caroline’s iPhone: It's staying on that wheel. It's seeing that because we know that we can get off the wheel, we can release the chains. But there is some security with that. There's the I mean in literally. We say
Caroline’s iPhone: it's the devil we know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't know. III feel like it's all
Caroline’s iPhone: II see it as the same.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, yeah, I that makes a lot of sense to me. I can't believe I never saw that connection before. I love hanging out with very smart people. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good.
Caroline’s iPhone: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anyone else want to share anything on this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): A, a, a any of this idea of getting needs met, and how it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we make the compulsive behavior bad. It's like we're disconnected in a way we're disconnecting a need. And that's why disconnecting from a need. And that's that is why it kind of doesn't work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because our needs are there. For a reason.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): what's coming up?
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I I'm I was pausing because I'm not sure I have all the words, and I'm also still a little bit in a sleepy state. But there are these 2 brain researchers, David and Austin Pearl Mutter, and they they have coined this term called disconnection syndrome.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and a lot of my. What I share with groups around addictions and compulsions in like the physical
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): is related to their research, and how they show that, like the prefrontal cortex in the amygdala, which we often think of as like the fight flight
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): part of the brain or the nervous system. is is impaired, and basically the amygdala. It registers threat, but it also registers pleasure.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I find that piece so interesting, because what happens is we have incessant exposure to threat which we get
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): just opening the news and or getting on social media. But we also have this incessant relationship or compulsion towards pleasure things. And basically, when we keep getting the likes, or we keep getting either the threat or the pleasure centers activated, it begins to impair our capacity to do the things that the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like, the CEO in the room or the adult CEO would wanna do. And so what I'm thinking about is we're we're really working hard to get the need met. So if it's whatever compulsive thing it's like. But this feels good, it feels good, it feels good, but it doesn't really feel good. It's like surface feel good.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And then, but when we do the things that eliminate what they call disconnection syndrome, which are reducing media exposure, getting out in nature eating whole foods or real foods.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): There's like 5 things that they name. And I just, I love bringing the science into it because it just it like solidifies it. but it's also just this place of yeah, there's actually a physiological thing happening where we are pleasure seeking. But because we're in this world where it's not really allowed. We're not supposed to actually have it that we
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, we we don't allow ourselves like the bigger, deeper
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): pleasure, or which is also connect. Oh, meaningful social connection is one of the 5 things as well. And so, yeah, like, we're eliminating these most important, deeper forms of connection and connectedness. And so we're going for the more surface level. And it's not satisfying that need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyway. I hope that was not to. Oh, that I'm so glad you're bringing the science piece in this. Yes, thank you. And there's something that you said. I can't remember the exact words that you said, but that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just spark this, let me show you all the image again. Hold on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So when we think of the devil
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And these these compulsions. There's something very shadowy about the right, like here, even in the English. There's a there's a little bit of an implied sexuality, right? The people are
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's the forbidden fruit that people are naked. There, there, there's there's there's something in there, you know. We have all of these ideas and culture about, you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): maybe some of the lighter ideas of what happens in hell. And it's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people are having sex, and they're drinking what whatever it is that's happening. and the more as a culture. We
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know so much of that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's so much to say here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Originally the devil got called the devil in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): religion. One of the reasons is was to suppress pleasure. That's what sparks it for me, Kelly, right like there's a suppression you're doing. They're doing the things so lewd, right religious terms. That is code, for you must not have pleasure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sorry all is taking me a while to articulate this hopefully, I'll get it out. And so then we we put these leisure along with the devil, we we put it into shadow, but then the more we deny ourselves something, the more it comes out sideways, right in, in expressions that aren't good for us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright, hopefully, all of that made sense. If someone can articulate that, better let me know, but just to say that there is this shadow, P. That we, the the compulsions, may not be aligned for us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but we also don't want to make the needs. We don't want to put them into shadow or make those wrong they long associated with the devil.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina.
Tina: Oh, if we're suppressing
Tina: pleasure
Tina: in turn. Are we disassociating from our bodies
Tina: when we're doing it?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't. I don't know if there's a
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, I can't say for certain. II don't know the science behind that. But that sounds sound to me.
Tina: Yeah, right? And that is why there is a feeling of a dissociation
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in these compulsive behaviors back to my phone use. Yeah, I'm just like Gr, when I'm grabbing for the phone to check the thing. I'm not in my full presence. I'm not fully in my body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Inhabiting all of myself when I am. That's not the choice that I'm making.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that sounds sound to me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little diversion there. But
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I think
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): valuable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And Alicia, absolutely that when you're when pleasure isn't
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, absolutely. You can be present and pleasure. Let's not. I don't want to get too much into the pleasure conversation, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because I want to get to the technique. But, Monique.
Monique: why, no, you say you don't want to get into the pleasure? Just a little quickie, but I'm on the topic of pleasure in the past day or 2 in the past couple of days. In regards to religion, the Pope just set out a statement saying that
Monique: sexual pleasure is a gift from God
Monique: like yes, that's exactly how II was shocked by it. And I thought, Oh, my God! The world needs to hear this right now. So it's funny that this topic comes up right now. Oh, my gosh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): such synchronicity! Thank you for sharing that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So unmet needs needs, we're trying to get met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So the the technique that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we're gonna look at today is
base
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on a very
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): centuries old practice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I've kind of adapted it to a somatic technique. But the practice is based on the work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of a Tibetan.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it's a baton monk.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I'm gonna a woman. I'm gonna put her name
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And so this is very, very old.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and she had a practice that she called feeding your demons.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): essentially
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the practice was. well, if there's this, these needs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we may as well feed them right? We may as well give, give, give them what they want. So then they're not gonna be, you know, like having us do this compulsive thing and that compulsive thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): give, give the need what it wants.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in this practice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the need. You imagine the need as a demon, and I know the demon also has a lot of connotations from religion. And so if that doesn't work for you, you can think of it as a gremlin, or you can think of it as a being.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's almost as if that being
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is the part of you that is like, give me the need. Give me the need. Give me the knee I need. I need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And and the practice is about feeding it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If this doesn't make sense. I think it will make sense, you know, as I do the demo.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So all that being said who would like to volunteer?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I call them the ex instead of feeding the daemon. It's feeding the need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne. Thank you for volunteering.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you there? Just say something. Okay. What are? Tell us before we go into it. What are what is the compulsion, or session, or attachment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that you want to work with
Suzanne Culberg: my compulsion
Suzanne Culberg: like, I'm a compulsive course buyer like not necessarily doer, but it's like, Oh, if I do this, provide this course, and I nail down my
Suzanne Culberg: Instagram or my social media, or my SEO and the other compulsion that sits alongside that is like checking my numbers.
Suzanne Culberg: Like number of subscribers, or opens, or like stuff like that. That
Suzanne Culberg: doesn't actually help me at all, but
Suzanne Culberg: just need to know. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have a feeling they're related. It's best for the exercise to pick one, and it'll it'll impact the other.
Suzanne Culberg: So pick the one that I do more, or pick the one that I want to get rid of.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever intuitively I I'm wanting to go with the second one habitually. So that'd be something I would do. Okay with the language of daemon, or would you rather? Oh, yeah, that doesn't bother me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Make sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, is it okay to go deeper with us? Okay, is it okay to close your eyes?
Suzanne Culberg: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So. Suzanne, I wanna invite you first to come in to your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take a few moments to really come back into yourself. feel your seat beneath you, supporting you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): notice your breath.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then from there
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I invite you to visualize in front of you this compulsion, this constant checking of the numbers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have it come down in the form of a demon. a light hearted demon.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So this compulsion is looking like a demon, and if you're able to visualize or else just feel into the energy of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and tell us if you are able to see it, what does this look like
Suzanne Culberg: it? It's almost cartoonish.
Suzanne Culberg: It's small. It's skeletal like I can see it's bone sticking out, and it has, like a notebook journal with with a pen, with like a feather quill thing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Of course it does.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, good. You're doing really well. connect with this demon
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with it, with all the parts, the the quill, and the notebook.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this obsession with checking the numbers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask the demon from your highest self, what is it that you really want most? What do you need?
Suzanne Culberg: It's 2 things came that might be related, but the first was safety, and the second one was like
Suzanne Culberg: enoughness, as in like. you know, am I doing enough?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it let you know real quick.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I agree they're related. But I think they're also separate the safety and enough. Now. So it's telling you exactly what it needs.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Would it feel okay
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to from you because you have safety and enoughness inside of you, Suzanne.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): would it feel okay to feed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the nectar of safety
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and enoughness. ROM, remembering that you there's unlimited supply of this. So if you if you feed it to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the demon, it's not that you're gonna have any less there's unlimited supply. Would it be like? Give it some of my safety. Is that what you mean?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, feed it. However it you might visualize it, coming from your stomach, or you're actually feeding it like you just did with your hand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But draw in to that unlimited supply of safety, and also enoughness that you have. and give the demon some of that nectar of what it really wants
Suzanne Culberg: it. It's very hesitant to take it like it's kind of looking at it like
Suzanne Culberg: with
Suzanne Culberg: it's
Suzanne Culberg: not trusting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask it what it means to know from you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that to get its need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's it saying?
Suzanne Culberg: It's very hesitant of me, cause like it's it seems that I might be really demanding
Suzanne Culberg: so needs to know for me. Is that like it's not a trick like you know how you might. The images come into mind is like, if you're trying to get your cat to go to the vet, and you want to go into the little page thing, so you might not kind of retreat there. So it's kinda like, there's no attachment. There's this isn't
Suzanne Culberg: I'm gonna give you this, and then put you in a page or something. It's like freely given.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So can you let it know that you're not there to trick it? You're you're not. You're not trying to get rid of it. You're not trying to get it to do anything
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're really there to give it what it wants.
Suzanne Culberg: It's
Suzanne Culberg: cautiously like
Suzanne Culberg: approaching now. So yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so please don't just give it a little bit of safety and enoughness. Let it take it in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the taking app.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask if you can give it some more safety and just keep on giving it until the need is met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for right now it'll it'll let you know.
Suzanne Culberg: Yeah, it's had enough for now.
Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne. What I want to invite you to do now is pop out of your body
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and into the the body of the demon.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and feel
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the safety and enoughness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that it's just taken in.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Receive
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that safety and enoughness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel it in your body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Take it in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what does it feel like?
Suzanne Culberg: Warm feels really warm like? Like a nice blanket
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Suzanne Culberg: like, I feel tired, but not a exhausted drained, but more like her just kind of had a really good meal. Have a nap kind of tired yeah can imagine that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): good you're doing really well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make a body memory of how it feels to meet this need
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really feel that safety and enoughness inside of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, when you're ready, pop back into your own body with the demon. Now that their need is met in front of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the demon might look exactly like it did at the beginning, or it might have changed. Take a look.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just let us know
Suzanne Culberg: it looks
Suzanne Culberg: plumper like I get more like a cupid than a emaciated thing. So yeah.
Suzanne Culberg: and also it's expression it's looking like wouldn't say it's smiling, but it's not like looking scared. It's just
Suzanne Culberg: content, looking.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Feel feel that, too. feel its contentness. its fullness.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask the demon what it it wants you to know from this place
Suzanne Culberg: that that that safety and enoughness
Suzanne Culberg: comes from me, like, not from
Suzanne Culberg: the numbers, or the feedback, or externally, like I already have it. I just go tap back into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You already have it. You have that safety and enoughness. You just have to tap back into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then ask the demon
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if there's anything it would like for you to do differently over this next week.
Suzanne Culberg: Have more naps like, yeah, I'm here for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. are you willing to do that
Suzanne Culberg: okay, so let it know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take one more minute with it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then, when you're ready, you can open your eyes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): nicely done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So first. what
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are you taking away? So far
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from this.
Suzanne Culberg: the connection? I wasn't expecting to make. That really surprised me was how much I drove that
Suzanne Culberg: like, you know, when it appeared, and it was emaciated and exhausted. And you know, like it was like
Suzanne Culberg: not not for guilt and shame and blame, and get in a rabbit hole. But you know, like it's it kind of reminds me of what we're talking about with the chains like we put the chain on.
Suzanne Culberg: You know. It's like
Suzanne Culberg: I did that, but not in a guilty way, but in a kind of like.
Suzanne Culberg: But also I can fix it. So sorry. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, it's like time in a not judgment way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And seeing the choice and and the and the fact that it was kind of tentative and afraid of me. And it's kind of like, you know. Sometimes we can have this disconnect. You know I want this to work. I went to love me, and you're like driving it away with your overbearing this. Yeah, I want safety and enoughness, but I might not take it. If it's given to me, I want safety enough. This is the things that I want, but then, when they come, it's like, I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. So we started to open up a channel in front of you to actually be able to receive it with with more flow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, and less of that. I'm not sure. Yeah, I really want it. But I don't know right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And it's a practice like everything we're learning here. Right? So what would happen if
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you how to practice every day of of feeding the demon, feeling the safety and the enoughness, or, if not that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before you go to check your numbers next time. take a moment
Suzanne Culberg: and feed the demon first. Yeah, I think that I like that, because that's just that connecting in. And it's just that moment of pause, because the same they're all related. Hey, do one thing. So you do most things when you go to eat, and you're not really hungry. It's like, what are you looking for? There? It's like, if you're going to look for the numbers
Suzanne Culberg: th the you know, if they've gone up then? Yeah, I'm amazing. If they haven't, you know.
Suzanne Culberg: Wh? What is it? Suggest the feeding that the urge is the safety and enoughness it's like, and I root into that now, regardless of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly. And then, if you still choose to look at the numbers which you, you might choose not to after you do that, or you might choose to look at it. But the idea is that you're already safe and enough.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no matter what the number said.
Suzanne Culberg: and then the just that decision
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to check is now not a compulsion and not a way to save yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or is coming from an empowered place of wanting to know.
Suzanne Culberg: Hmm. yeah.
Suzanne Culberg: does that land? I want to make sure that's not that lands, and it also lands with the courses which we didn't go into. But you know, do I have time and space capacity to actually work through this? Or am I thinking by magically buying this thing. It will give me something I don't have now, even if I don't actually have time to action it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right.
That's right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Beautiful. Good! Thank you. Yay, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All right. So from practitioner point of view. And Suzanne Suzanne, you can also put your practitioner hat on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What do you want to pull out from this process. What are you seeing in this process? What are you noticing. and what questions do you have?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alicia?
Alicia Morrow: Well, I just it just feels like a super efficient way of going about things like, let's just main line it to the demon like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's great.
Alicia Morrow: And there's no pathologizing. It's just let's really give you what you truly need.
Alicia Morrow: And then II see an opportunity to like almost work backwards with the client like you can go in and give the need.
Alicia Morrow: and then there's an opportunity to go in and work backwards like, what am I saying? What? How am I trying to say this like you can work with what gets in the way of
Alicia Morrow: feeding the need. And like you could almost start with this and then work backwards. I love that. Yes, yeah. And Kelly's putting in a chat mainline it to the difficult. Everybody's gonna be thinking that no, I have to go. So thanks so much, Jamana. I'll catch the rest of it on the recording.
Alicia Morrow: Thanks, everyone, bye.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What are you seeing. What's the sparking for you? What do you want to pull out. Jennifer?
Jennifer Kittredge: For me? And you do this
Jennifer Kittredge: all the time, and I just love it is your pace. There's no rush. You have no expectations. You're not leading, and I know it's like the basics, but it's just so beautifully done because there's that space for the client to really open up and sit with what's coming up. And I just that. It's just a constant reminder for me to just slow down and no expectations, and let it flow the way it's supposed to flow, because it will unfold as it's supposed to unfold. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, yeah, so we we can't emphasize all of those things enough, right? The slowing it down, and then no expectations. For example, if I would, you know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most people don't have a hesit. The demon doesn't necessarily have a hesitance at first, but if I was just expecting everything to go, you know, like it always does, it would throw me off as the practitioner versus just meeting the moment and giving the permission to see why there's the resistance there. What does it need to know from you. We're all tools that we've all learned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in other techniques. Right? So yes, no expectations. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Deva.
Deva Munay: I think it's just really normalizing the human condition in that we have this ability at this time to like track numbers just instantly. And so it's very relatable. And then just like, oh, but
Deva Munay: other people, our students, our clients, are doing this as well. Probably maybe it's not the exact same. But how much reassurance we're looking for outside of ourself, and I think it comes to like a lack of community and a lack of a real deep sense of belonging to something more.
Deva Munay: I guess bigger or more meaningful, but that it's I don't know if it's more since Covid, or if it's just the acceleration of how life is evolving. But I just see it as a real, deep human need for that deeper source of connection and safety and belonging
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): absolutely. Yes, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes it. It's the community thing like you're saying sometimes, like suzanne's, you know, part of what Suzanne's team instead was. Take more naps right? Being more well rested can give one more the ability
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to to have those things. So yeah, it it is. I mean to your point about how
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is so much in our society right now.
Deva Munay: And just yeah, that outside validation that
Deva Munay: a number could really shift. All of a sudden the numbers gonna make me feel safe. I know I have enough, because the screen said this number, I mean, we all do it right. But and I get so depressed if people unsubscribe, and then I'm like, well, you know, and it's like, Why is that the first number I look at versus like, Oh, my God! Look at all the people who actually read it versus first thing.
Deva Munay: So yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for what it's worth for everyone on this topic. I never check my numbers. So now, I have the privilege of having
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a team member who keeps very light track, not of how many people signed up for this program. That's different, but in terms of subscribers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The only time I know what my numbers are is. If, for whatever reason, we see someone on my team who's lightly tracking, seize up, go down by a lot.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or up by a lot, you know a lot a lot on either end, or else it would drive me nuts to be.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know. So I've just like eliminated that from my repertoire of even, you know, thinking it's an activity, it is. Yeah. It is not worthy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): melody.
Melody Noll: I noticed when you introduced the visualization. You asked that Suzanne described it as a light-hearted demon, and I was wondering if you could say a little bit more about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yes, and that is in the quote unquote script as well, because we don't know if a client is gonna have any religious or cultural
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): overlays onto that term.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The light hearted helps it not show up is a really scary something that's gonna dysregulate them, something really scary. That's then gonna dysregulate them. So that's also I said, you do like the language of demon or gremlin, or being but just as a second
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): foolproof on that, I'm going to add the word lighthearted. So just in case either they saw a movie with a scary demon, or because in whatever
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): religious service they were in, anyway, does that make sense?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it's just a a little bit of a instruction towards that. This is not harming you. This is,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something to normalize and apart.
Melody Noll: Thanks
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): involved.
Inbal Sansani: Can you speak a little bit about the part around feeding it.
Inbal Sansani: Cause I noticed myself be like, really get really literal about that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I gave. I don't think it's in the script. I kind of gate gave Suzanne the instruction. It can be either actually feeding it, or you can feel.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I said, and somebody mentioned this in the chat. Unlimited supply. Right? That's an important piece, too, because we don't want the client to go into thinking. Oh, my gosh, if I give this to the demon that I'm not gonna have it right. And then it becomes a weird thing. So we wanna say, there's an unlimited supply, and then it's a it's a like a choose your own adventure. They get to feed the demon. I almost like to to see
what wants to come through, is it? Oftentimes, when I hold space for myself in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): practice, I almost see it as like an energy coming through my solar plexus that just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): connector kind of goes to the demon. But it could be feeding like Suzanne. It could be, you know, energetic Riki kind of thing. It
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and use all of your skills, too. You know the client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): might either need to ask the daemon. How would you like to be fed? I've never done that. But that's just occurring to me now, and that could be a thing. Or you can ask the client like, what is the what is the best way to feed it. So we're using all of the skills that we've already learned.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know, from befriend your fear, you know. Choose your there's some choose your own journey in here right all of those things to meet the moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So the last thing you said was the first thing I was going to say, which is just seeing the resonance with the other techniques, which is really nice for my brain that loves to compartmentalize things. So that's really helpful. And the other thing that just comes up is
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this, works for everything like a toddler is having a tantrum. A teenager is like flipping out like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): actually, what we all need is just to like, have the parts of us that are seeking love and connection fed. And that's the essence of what we're doing. And I'm I love it. It's so. It's like so simple. And when we make this a practice, it just.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it would be a really beautiful way towards peace.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I just got chills when you said that. Yeah, beautifully, said
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Nicole.
Nicole Harris: I'll just add on that point that the reason that I went over and sat on the on the couch is because my dog was bugging me, and I've noticed that when she starts bugging me, you know she's asking for food, but if I go sit down on the couch with her and pet her, it's it's you know, she, what she's really looking for is attention and comfort. And
Nicole Harris: so it was. Sort of it was nice to, but it was sort of a mirror of what you know that the practice was
Nicole Harris: but one thing I noticed was just how incredible Suzanne's
Nicole Harris: visual abilities bill visualization abilities are. And you know I was sort of like, oh, God, you know mine!
Nicole Harris: They're okay. But you know. And and I know we've talked about this in the past with other practices. But you know with with a client who
Nicole Harris: visualization capabilities are a little less than Suzanne's amazing ones. Are there any sort of notes that you would give us?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, that's interesting.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): really good question. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): first of all, as always like just in general, to know it can pretty much work just as powerfully.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sometimes even more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to just feel the feelings.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to feel the giving, and then the receiving when you pop into the body.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even even if the client sees nothing, because really this, this is about the the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): filling up energetically
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on the need, and then and then building that body memory.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's the most important part of the answer. But that being said.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you want, you can talk it out before going into the process
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the client, and you can see we're gonna do this process. And you know, this compulsion is gonna show up as a demon, or especially if you know it's a client that has had trouble visualizing in the past a little bit, and you can say before you even go in like, what?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What? What is the deal? If you were to just guess, you know, if this was a light hearted demon, right? If this compulsion was in demon, light hearted demon form, and just have a conversation, you know, and the client might be like I think it be purple and plump, you know, and like oh, it might have this, and so you can maybe
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk it out a little bit before, so that they have something to go into with the visualization.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that something that seems could be useful? Okay, good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, Suzanne is saying. I say to my clients, whatever you do or don't see is perfect. But tell me what you feel. I love that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: I was just gonna offer something to that, because when I first came into coaching as a client, the first coach I work with was always about. She did timelines and stuff. Just do you see the dots? And she was quite forceful. And I was always like, Yeah, I see the dots because I was scared to say, and then, when I worked with another coach, I was kind of like coaching dumb. Funny the irony! But anyway, I was like I didn't see shit like I was just like I spent all this money, and here we are again, and she's like that's that's perfect
Suzanne Culberg: and worked with that. And I hadn't realized to thank you for the reflection how easily I can visualize now, because it took years. I never saw anything, but it wasn't till I work with someone who said so what do you feel like? Oh, yeah, that I can tell you. But now I can visualize much more easily. But it didn't come naturally to me. Some people do like some people see colors. I never see colors. But yeah. So I just wanted to offer that to anybody. When you actually hear the client and work with them, and they don't feel like, Oh, God, I'm wrong, cause I don't see the dots
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's absolutely, and it is the feeling and the energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or they might be like me. I can. I'll get an image, but then I'm kind of in and out of it. I don't it. I see it, and then I don't, and then I see it again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I stick with the feeling and the the
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is that presence in front of me the daemon like, what does that feel like? Can I? Can I connect
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): energetically with that?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly's saying I used to have so much trouble visualizing. And now I see everything with my eyes open. My shamanic teacher used to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's okay. If you don't see, give yourself permission to make it up. Exactly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wendy. I don't want to put you on the spot, but I feel like I haven't heard your voice yet today. I'd love to hear what either about the technique or in general.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's resonating for you?
Wendy: I'm a little off today. I'm definitely off.
Wendy: I'm listening. I'm taking in. I'm getting some things, but I'm definitely
Wendy: not away
Wendy: present. Do you think it's the subject matter, or is there something going on?
Wendy: I you know I'm not. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I mean, I'm getting some things out of it definitely. But I'm just not.
Wendy: I don't know. II it's hard for me to describe.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it worth us nudging more into it?
Wendy: Oh.
Wendy: Now, I I don't know. I don't know. I'm really in a
Wendy: yeah. I'm not sure.
Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What?
Wendy: You might not know the answer to this. So just
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I guess if there was something around a anything, you know that we're looking at today. That would kind of you'd be resistant to, or it'd be a little
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hard to look at or not want to look at. Can you think of what that might be?
Wendy: No, I think I've been like looking at my
Wendy: things, you know. I'm I'm looking at them, but not
Wendy: I don't know. I'm just not as fully present.
Wendy: and I really can't.
Wendy: II don't know. Can I? Can I push you a little more you can say, no. Am I putting you too much on the spot? No, no, I just yeah. It's fine.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, is it okay to close your eyes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you try to connect in with the part of you that's not present? We're not fully present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Just notice if it's inside of you or out, right outside of you. Just notice where that kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not present
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): energy is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Where are you noticing it, or where do you sense it might be.
Wendy: You know, it's interesting, because usually I'm pretty good and quick with kind of finding things and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having a hard time. Yeah, it doesn't. I'm not surprised because it's the part that's not present. Right? So don't. Nobody's in a rush.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's space here for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even if it's not a total sure thing. This is. This is where I sense it just like a little vague.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Are you feeling it between your eyes, the not presence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feeling it in your chest.
Wendy: I feel a little in my chest.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, okay? Good. You're doing really well. And it doesn't have like, I said, it doesn't have to be 100%, even just faint. What does it feel like in your chest?
Wendy: Tight
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yeah, so we're not looking to change
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it necessarily in any way, we're not looking to get rid of it. We're just looking to hold space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the part of you that's not present. It's kind of ironic right bringing presents to that part that's not present.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just to give it a little love
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and compassion, and so just hold space as if it were one of your kids
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or a client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was a little struggling to show up for whatever reason.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and ask that part in your chest.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what's going on for it right now? What does it want you to know?
Wendy: I mean, this is something that I it's not what my just to say what's going on. But like I thought before that.
Wendy: since I'm not feeling present. I'm going to
Wendy: listen to this. And really, you know, when I feel focused and feel that I can really get
Wendy: another level of learning from it. and
Wendy: no. It's okay, not every day are you
Wendy: now in the
Wendy: right there's nothing wrong with it
Wendy: is there anything?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That you want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it to know?
Wendy: But it's okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Wendy: it's okay.
Wendy: you're getting what you need for now. And when you go back
oh.
Wendy: see some other things. But, as I said before, I am getting stuff, but I'm just not feeling as
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): attuned and aligned, and just there you go. We all have our days right? Like, there's nothing wrong that's happening here. I just wanted to tap in to see if there was.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it okay to just spend one more moment with it. Is there anything that that this energy wants from you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the rest of the day?
Wendy: Just not beat myself up about not being
Wendy: Polly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You get to you, and everybody gets to show up exactly as you are.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Sometimes it's the weather, sometimes it's cause. Something is happening with somebody in the family. Sometimes it's the material, right? But we get to show up exactly as we are, and by going into it. By the way, Wendy, in case I wasn't clear, wasn't like to fix it. There's just to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of see
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and also ironically, sometimes when we give presents to our not presence. it can spark more presence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): tell us one thing, you are like what from the whole day one thing that has been important or fascinating.
Wendy: just I the whole thing with the pause.
Wendy: And just that I
Wendy: can see
Wendy: how valuable that is, and
Wendy: When you start to go to a compulsion, or whatever.
Wendy: That really hit me
Wendy: pairing deeply.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah, it's one. even though I know I have to go back to. And remember, I think, with many of us
Wendy: so important. Good. Thank you. Thanks for being on the hot seat. Yes, and yes, and sorry that my presence is not.
Wendy: you know, fully there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No need to apologize. I just haven't heard from, so I'm glad I checked in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vlada.
Vlada Tomova: Similarly, to Wendy. I was feeling like
Vlada Tomova: I was present but not present in a different way. And it's interesting that I missed this morning, because
Vlada Tomova: I never miss, I'm always on
Vlada Tomova: so.
Vlada Tomova: I'm kind of guessing into what how the architect might be manifesting for me. But part of it is definitely hiding. So it's interesting that most of the day I spent off camera
Vlada Tomova: also doing. The other thing that I believe is might be part of my devil, which is multi-tasking.
Vlada Tomova: and so
Vlada Tomova: I did the exercise together with Wendy. And if I may share
Vlada Tomova: I realized that everything like my entire head was tingling.
Vlada Tomova: And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): wait, Vlada, let me pause. Which exercise are you talking about? You mean, as I was leading Vlad. Leading Wendy. Okay, I thought you meant in a breakout room, and I haven't got it since you got here. Okay, in a different way.
Vlada Tomova: So for me, it was tingling in the head and Their realization that when I do less I actually do more.
Vlada Tomova: and a
Vlada Tomova: that it's safe for me to be to be me out in the world. It's just safe to show up the way I am when I'm less I do more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and it's safe to be me in the world.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think that's a good note for us to take a short break on and then we'll come back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for putting the sheet in the chat, Theresa. When we come back we'll we'll practice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the technique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's come back at 4 45
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Eastern and we'll do some practicing. I'll hang out for a few minutes if anybody needs anything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay? So if you're here, just let me know that you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Camera. Okay?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm giving myself a pat on the back, because I think I nailed it with the breakout rooms. Let me tell you what I did. I think II got everybody's request
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and a weird. Probably. Has it been a weird month? Been a weird month. I get the like, I don't know if I could coach today. Thanks been like that. Okay? So, Wendy, you're gonna be an observer, Maria, you're gonna be an observer.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vlada and Caroline, you're gonna be observers.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David. I put you in as an observer, because I don't think you're if you have to leave at 5 30 Eastern. I'm not sure you're gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): make it all the way through.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): My question is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Teresa and Inball you were both. I didn't know if you wanted to be observers or not. You can. I can pull you each out as observers, and you can practice with each other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or you can observe
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Teresa and Ball.
Inbal Sansani: I think I prefer to observe.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Theresa, so I know you said your voice might not last so hopefully that works for everybody.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, thank you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to Teresa for putting the you know loose. It's always loose instructions because you're gonna show up to meet your client where they're at
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and copy and paste it again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So it's at the bottom of the chat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does anybody have any we're gonna have.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll tell you so you'll have 15. It's not a long process. You'll have 15 min
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then 5 min for discussing, you know talking about what happened pulling the pieces
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): before you go straight into the practice. You're gonna wanna just get a little cause right in with a client. You'll have already had a conversation. You'll know what the compulsion is. So you're gonna wanna get a little bit of that? Not too much, though. Did you notice with Suzanne? I just said, What's the compulsion you've been working on? And she said, I have 2, and we picked one, and then we just went
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): straight into. I didn't need a lot of background. What's the illusion? What's that? Right? You. You don't need that, Jessica 15. We'll do 15 min for one process
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then 5 min to discuss, and then I'll probably call everybody back, and then we'll we'll go back out again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does anybody have any questions before I send you to your breakout rooms.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No. alright enjoy I love, while you know. I wish that everybody could practice and be client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The flip side is, it is great to have observers? Because you learn so much as the observer, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some of the richest feedback also can sometimes be from a third or fourth party.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So enjoy. You'll have, like, I said, 20 min total. My recommendation is 15, about 15 and 5. Something like that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): enjoy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hey? Just saying good night. Good night.
pollymolly: Always so powerful. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Have a good day.
pollymolly: kids.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So how to go? Who wants to share. What you learn.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer.
Jennifer Kittredge: I'll share that. I needed more time. I was the practitioners, so we kind of ran out of time at the end and we just set spent time on really defining the need cause. A bunch came up so it took a little bit of time, you know, to find that need that wanted to come forward. So I felt a little.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Did you define the need before going in or
Jennifer Kittredge: kind? It was kind of before, and then during as, yeah, that's the thing. So don't try to define the need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Has
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the demon when you're out of your head, like the demon. What you wanted to find before is, what is the compulsion attachment which we did talk about a little bit, and then it kind of went into the need. Then you can start to get head evil. Is it love, or is it security
Jennifer Kittredge: or right? So that I'm so glad I'm sorry, but it's good need. Leave that
Jennifer Kittredge: for the process. So focus on the compulsion in the beginning. And then the demon will show what need. Okay, got it. Okay? So I'm so glad, you know, for all of our learning, even with that. What's something that went really well?
Jennifer Kittredge: Well, if I could share Veronica, she's just so in tune to herself, I love working with her, and we work together now for a year longer now. But yeah, she's just really in tune with herself, and really just goes deep. And I, it's just always an honor to be able to do this work with her. So yeah.
Jennifer Kittredge: good. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Lisa.
Lisa Farr: yeah, it was just a quick follow up on Jennifer's point, because the the needs when I was doing the exercise, like the journaling.
Lisa Farr: were one thing. But when I went into the exercise the needs were entirely different. So it just exactly what you said, just wanted to reiterate it, and it's given more depth to the whole thing for me. Much more flavor.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I'm so glad. Yeah. And thanks for that share. Yes, I mean, sometimes we can nail it when we try to figure it out cognitively. But really
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it's through the sematics, that's what. Sometimes the unexpected might come up. Or if we can't think it, you know that? That's where it's gonna come up.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good! Who else would you learn? What'd you notice?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What wants to be pulled from the experience?
Deva Munay: I feel like I learned a lot just from observing, of really watching the pacing and
Deva Munay: honoring what was arising, and then.
Deva Munay: like a gentle encouragement where it was like kind of like. I'm not sure where, just bringing in guidance where it felt like it. Just kind of helped propel and open up the space more for what was needing to be fed and heard. So it was really helpful to witness the process.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, as many
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as much practice as we can get, but also as much as we can observe, it is, it is almost like practicing right? We're taking it in. And there's something that you said that you just used.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Try not slowing it down, and also the
Deva Munay: wasn't assistance, but the kind of a little.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's what was the word guidance? Guidance, right? Which is what we we're I mean. It is all the cl led by the client, right? Like what? But at the same time we are holding the guardrails, and and we are guiding a little bit to we might when we're doing our our deep listening in the process, we might hear a certain thing. We're shepherding this way
Deva Munay: or the other way, and I think I could tell, like Monique had her eye on the clock and was watching, whereas
Deva Munay: shell was just deep, deep in her process, and so
Deva Munay: knowing that she was holding that time space as well, and that it's like it's going by really quick, like what Jennifer said, as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Monique.
Monique: I yeah. I just wanna say thank you, David, for observing, for noticing that, for reflecting that back to me, because I did feel the presence of time and like, Oh, my gosh! We're never gonna get through this like this is gonna take forever. And II believe that I
Monique: was calm and cool, and, you know, held held time, whatever that meant in regards to how Michelle was moving through it.
Monique: But yeah, there was definitely a layer of
Monique: stress, even though I felt
Monique: well, we're here and I'm in. Join the ride, and wherever Michelle wants to go, that's where I'm gonna follow her. So I guess my question to Michelle would be, did you get what you needed in our rest time together?
Michelle Cohen: Yes, I definitely did, and I was aware that we only had a short time.
Michelle Cohen: I mean, I knew that going in, although in the process, I was no longer in linear time.
Michelle Cohen: So I appreciate you just holding that. And that also, I
Michelle Cohen: being like a slower as you could needing more time. Just so I really, just
Michelle Cohen: I was like, I'm just gonna drop in. And I'm okay with wherever this, if all of a sudden, we're like, disappear. So I appreciate it when you're like in 20 s, and I was like, Thank you. And but we already had a little time to check in. But I just so you were like preparing me, and then I knew that, and I could feel you all. We're holding the space, and
Michelle Cohen: and I did not feel your stress.
Michelle Cohen: But I appreciate it. III know
Michelle Cohen: as the practitioner, and
Michelle Cohen: holding the space that you had a big job, so I wanted to tie it up in a nice bow for you, and bring that full circle back to the monster.
Michelle Cohen: and but it and even though we I did get what I needed, and it showed me like, well, what really is that compulsion speaking to? And and so that I can let go
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like my no, I can't let go. Yes, all beautiful, so I'm so happy to hear it. Monique.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): take it in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): also. Read what's in the chat. Sounds like you did a masterful job.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I did give you guys a little bit of a short time right? Gotta gotta mix it up to keep you on your toes. But I want to reiterate. I love Monique. What you just said. At a certain point you decided you were gonna sit back and enjoy the ride, and I love that cause. That is my feeling always in a process, right? Just gonna sit back and enjoy it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not watching the time yet, and I'm also not. I'm watching the time, but I don't need to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel that it's on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): melody.
Melody Noll: Suzanne was also masterful
Melody Noll: and
Melody Noll: cause she was mentioning kind of jumping off scripts, or having the flexibility to go in a different direction, or follow the client wherever she's going, and
Melody Noll: I had a breakthrough because of that, because when she asked me, Can you
Melody Noll: feed the demon now? And I couldn't do it. I was overwhelmed by this
Melody Noll: feeling in my body that has was just horrible, and I couldn't do it. And so she just said, Okay.
Melody Noll: would you like to explore that? Then we have time? And so we did. And I didn't get a chance to
Melody Noll: to exactly explain this during our time together, because the but I've been having this difficulty with my belly recently that I can't figure out my gallbladder. Is it some infection? And I've been looking at what I've been eating
Melody Noll: physically, eating, trying to think is what is contributing to it. And I think what? What I've been eating is other people's crap.
Melody Noll: and not not really showing up for myself.
Melody Noll: And so and so that so, Suzanne, thank you. She really helped me see that. And
Melody Noll: yeah, I can't remember what else I was. Gonna say, but that was just
Melody Noll: that. It was really
Melody Noll: such a gift
Melody Noll: that was came out of the process she was willing to pursue.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I love this number one, because sometimes a a block or resistance comes up. for whatever reason, right? Because you have to a little bit work through the resistance, or because it's not right
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to go and feed that day, or whatever it is, it doesn't, you know. I don't know. If you ultimately got to the feeding, the or you did. Okay. Also, you might not have to right, but the from a facilitator standpoint meet just like we're talking about needs right? Meet the need. What's coming up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Lean into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love. I was just getting choles when you were sharing. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I love hearing all of what's happened, and I think we we also ran out of time, but I didn't have the feeling of that at all. Like I was. I went in as the client first, which I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): offered up mostly, so I would get out of my head. And Nicole was totally masterful at guiding the process, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I just felt like she was holding me and the demon and my demon. II didn't actually have negative stuff with my demon like my demon was actually really adorable. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): II don't know. Maybe I didn't quite tap in in the way that I needed to, but it actually felt very easy to connect with and feed the demon. And maybe it's, you know, the work we've been doing today, and last weekend, and all this stuff, too.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But I
one thing that I noticed was in
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): feeling really held, and and then just very easily accessing the place of my demon just wanted to be like, held and snuggled and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and and like loved up. And it was very easy.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And as I was doing that, and Nicole had me checking him with my body, it actually helped me to access this other piece which was really into what Melody was saying. Just around like the eating it went from, like the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the trying to, you know, feed myself. And in my mind, probably the the literal chatter of like, I have to feed myself and my kids. So I gotta work, work, work, work, work, work, work.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): to the the things that I feed myself in the ways that I've been kind of compulsively munching. You know, it's like healthy food. It's still like munching, and I can tell it's not like it's not physical hunger, but just like the way she was holding help me access, that even though we were dealing with a different compulsion. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): yeah, so it was really, that was really powerful and and kind of easeful. In a way, I didn't exactly expect.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That sounds like it so much. But it's so great to hear about all of these processes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And yeah, Kelly was saying, oh, hers is cute right? They're not always gonna show up as cute.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Even if you say light hearted, you know, it still might have an overlay of something. But just good facilitators. Note to, you know, light hearted. You can even say like a fun curriculum of again. Or if you know that the person has a background of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): carrying some stuff with religion. You might not use demon. You might use gremlin. Not. There still might be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): some kind of difficulty, because there needs to be difficulty, because that is part of the process, and the learning and the growth and the breakthrough for the client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's always every circle is perfect, every process is perfect. I really believe that. And When you're working with your, you know here we you might not know who you get partnered up with so well. But when you're working with a client, use everything you know about them to give instructions going in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Let's do it again. So same thing. You'll have 20 min total, I recommend, if you can, 15 and 5, you it might take longer
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): trying not to, you know, to jennifer share again, you know, need to to figure the need out before. What's the compulsive behavior, or what's the obsession? What's the attachment?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then have that personified
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as the demon or the being go from there.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Enjoy!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Welcome back! Alright! We are almost at the end of our day. I want to.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I acknowledge we haven't done any movement today. We've been on our seats the whole time, and so you might be has been. And it's been a big day. We've been holding a lot. So you're feeling tired. That's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): completely to be expected.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna hear some things that came through in that practice in a moment, but also to say, and David put this in the the chat earlier for those of you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Or maybe Wendy did for those of you that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): didn't get a chance to to practice if you were observing, if you learned so much from observing. But please find partners post in the group
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): practice right, any. In any event, we want to practice all of this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I wanna hear some shares. I'm gonna quickly sh! Quickly show you the lovers card to give you. Just so some ideas, and then we'll we'll wrap up
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but I'd love to hear. One or 2 shares what came through. What did you learn in this last session? What are you feeling excited about from it? Would you observe?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you thinking of the technique, Jessica?
Jessica: Well, I'll just say it's surprisingly fun, like both the one that
Jessica: when I was the coach and Lisa was the client. And then, this time, when I was the client, and Lisa was the coach like it just felt like a very
Jessica: I don't know. Sort of joyful silly like. It was not what I was expecting when I heard we were
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to doing something with the demon. So yeah, yeah, it is enough that I said. We're kind of turning it on its head, and it can be really fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Suzanne.
Suzanne Culberg: First I just will say I feel blessed like I've got to have 2 helpings or something like 2 courses. But what I wanted to say from a client perspective is how
Suzanne Culberg: amazingly different it was like was a different demons. We picked a different compulsion. But like because I've experienced it the first time where that one was kind of a little resistant didn't want to be fed. This one was like, Come at me, baby. It's like hungry and what I felt as inside my body like
Suzanne Culberg: I didn't realize
Suzanne Culberg: I've had all that, because, like you know, we had, you say we have it unlimited, whatever I felt stimmied by containing that. So being able to have the demon there and feed it, and it's like, Oh, I feel so much louder, because I'm not carrying all that around like a wasted stuff
Suzanne Culberg: like it was good stuff. But you know, so yeah, different. Both were good, equally powerful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But how the experience! And it makes me think of so many things like trial, birth, or whatever. Well, it's a big point that I wanted to make. And there's something about your share that reminded me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Part of the the work in this or the magic in this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is also
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when we give
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever it is that we're giving
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we get to experience the need as well
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): through the giving right. We get it almost like the giving fill fills us, too, in a way. And it's so true out in the world, not when someone is pulling it out of us, or we give something out of guilt. But like when I'm feeling like I need some love. Luckily I've got a 9 year old, Teddy Bear. That's just like a love, Bunny, that wants it from me, but in the giving yet, L. Love.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): II am filling my need for love right in that so much of, and I know. Probably all of you will resonate this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in my client work, giving someone else the experience of being seen and heard.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It doesn't completely fulfill that need for me, but it does fulfill some of the need right when I'm giving it from my full heart and of my own agency. So there's the need is being filled on both ends of this technique.
Suzanne Culberg: Jennifer?
Jennifer Kittredge: Yeah, that was. It was so powerful to be well, both the practitioner and the client, but what came through for me. So my daemon came through as like an aura, a color. It was black when it first set like a grayish black, and it had some like dark green hues.
Jennifer Kittredge: And my need came through as love and acceptance of self like I didn't need love and acceptance from anybody else. It needed to come from myself.
Jennifer Kittredge: And so was really easy to receive that. And it was like this purple light coming out of my heart
Jennifer Kittredge: to the demon. And then, if we use that word shape shifting, and it really like shifted that energy and the energy term purple. And it was just really, really powerful, and just that I need to celebrate myself every day like I celebrate everybody else, and I don't celebrate myself. So that was big. And I just think, Veronica, for beautifully leading me through. That
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): sounds really big, right? And so this is a practice like we were saying earlier can be a daily practice. It can be a practice of pause when we feel the compulsion and come back right. The daemon that but we want to keep on filling the well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): this is a little related to what you were seeing, Joanna, about just how you are filled by doing that. And I was just thinking how like this process, like so many of these processes, are
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): not humbling in and of themselves. But it's just like we're not doing that much. It's really that. And it's such a beautiful thing to
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): actually just facilitate someone else finding their own resourcing. And I think Veronica said earlier something just about having this like unlimited. Well, someone but just this unlimited well, and I was thinking, too, about like, really, the way I see my work, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): is like. I just need to show up as like clear vessel, and when I show up as clear vessel like the light pours through me and goes into them, and and that's like the benefit of
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like just being guide right because the light comes through and I get the medicine of it. But then they get the medicine of it as well. And II just really feel that with this technique, it's not like I have anything to say.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so so much going on. And it's also simple at the same time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, absolutely
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): part of the well thing to Yes, some of these needs we can look at it. It's as like the well that can never be filled. Right? I need more visibility. I need more visible, whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): until we do turn it on ourselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in this way and resource it from the inside. And and then the well can begin to fill up more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, real quick. This is like, you know, if you want to do some extra credit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hold on a second.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Had it on my screen. Let me just get it again
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you want to go deeper. I offer to you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the lovers which we can think of as a sister or companion card to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the devil. Do you see some of the similarities.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We've got the 2 figures. They're still naked.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We have another figure up here in between them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're not chained to anything or to each other.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This card, one of the ways that you can look at the lovers is being in right relationship to the other
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Whereas with the devil. We might not be in right relationship to chocolate or to fame. Right? Insert your vice to to working, overworking, exercising, etc.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We can use. But we. But what that archetypal image lets us know is there's choice to take off the chains.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): This is the next iteration, right relationship to the other right, whatever the other is. So you could use this image
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): back to our last retreat right? And you could dialogue, maybe this is you, and and this is chocolate, right? So you can have. An inner dialogue in right relationship with chocolate.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ask it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): how to be better friends with it. What what it wants you to know, etc., etc., or you could you know, just Channel, what? What is this one in in the middle have to say? What is this about. You can go deep into lots of things, for now I'll I'll I'll leave that dangling as a carrot for those of you that that want to take that on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So in the few minutes that we have left
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love for you to take a moment and write down at least 2 things that you're taking from our time together today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there's hopefully, much, much more. But I'll give you a minute, at least 2, maybe of time for 3.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you taking for yourself?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Practitioner-wise, personally.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and please share at least one thing in the chat. We're not gonna have time to hear everybody's voice to voice, but I'd love to see in the chat what is one of your top takeaways
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): from our time together today?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you taking away?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica's taking away how quickly and effortlessly we can turn things around when we recognize that we can give ourselves and our demons what we mean. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Kelly. Chains aren't tight and not connected to the devil as an illusion of your own making. So you have choice in any moment to release it. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Nicole, you're taking astronaut ice cream what? Your demon wanted to be fed. I love it. That makes me very curious. It sounds very fun.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer, when I remember who I am and stand in my power. The chains have no hold on me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Florida. It feels wonderfully safe and blissful to be nourished. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Michelle. How to get to the deeper need underneath or behind the compulsion, obsession, or attachment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): See into it to what it's trying to say. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for invol, there's always a choice. The chains are loose, we can always come back to them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The chains and the devil are your power. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for Suzanne, taking the time to find the true need, and how you can nourish it daily. Yes, for melody. Give the demon what it wants
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anyone else.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Teresa, the importance of understanding the deeper need, and utilizing your power of choice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): beautiful!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in so saying.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the work of this circle
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but really only just be done
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): may return to your ordinary lives. Extraordinary humans.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): May you walk with the knowing in your heart that your needs matter. and that there is a way to get them met.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I am sending you all so so much love. Let me know how it goes as you move through with all this work for yourself and your clients. Practice. Come back to feeding the need. Practice with each other. And I'll see you soon
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): have a great rest of your day. Hi.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I can hang on for a moment. I'll turn off the recording if anybody needs anything.