Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hold on somehow. The
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there we go!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hi! Everybody
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so good to see you all
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel like I for those of you that came to the shadow retreats. I saw you in 2 groups. So I'm glad that we're. It's like a true integration, not just of the shadow, but of everyone who is either able to come or not able to come. We're we're integrating back together. So I know, and I know that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not all of you are able to be here, but for those of you that are here. I'm so glad that you're here.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Before we jump into our work for today I sent you an email. But I wanna remind you we're not done a lot of times after the Shadow Retreat is. Oh, my God! What more can happen after that. But there is still more, and in, I think, 2, we in 2 weeks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's in 2 weeks we have our last
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): retreat, which is the wise warrior
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): technique retreat?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Many people actually say that that's their favorite of everything. Because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we kind of bring everything together in some really cool and different and unexpected
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): ways. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I can't wait for us to dive into that material, and we're going to be looking at different ways of internal and setting internal and external boundaries. In.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think in some ways that you know, and then in many ways that you haven't thought about before.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But for today we are here to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): talk about Shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for some of you here you just came off of our shadow retreat and so for you. It's like I love. I'm really happy. Everybody is coming together, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the people that like just finished, you have some really like fresh thoughts. That you're gonna share. And it's gonna remind the people that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): either weren't able to attend or we're here in March. And then for those of you that were here in March. Hopefully, some of you. It's been marinating. You've been working on the techniques for yourself or for others. You're gonna have a different kind of insight, and I also have a little bit. If you know, we'll see where the the day takes us or the session takes us. But I have some little extra things. I'm gonna
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): kind of hone in on as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So all that being said, I'm gonna start like I start all of our integration sessions. Oh, actually, no, sorry. That's not how I'm gonna start. I'm gonna start this way. Say, we're gonna start with a quiz. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what is shadow? What is Shadow?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who wants to share?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You can put it in the chat. You can raise your hand.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What is shadow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a yummy incense.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Tina, go ahead.
Tina Dowdy: The parts of ourselves that we reject and hide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, yes, the parts of ourselves that we reject and hide. That is one excellent way to define it, and a big way that we'd look at it in the retreats. You weren't even at the Retreat. And you know, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Caroline is saying in the chat shadow is energy, too. Right. We looked at that. The shadows are archetypes, and they hold archetypal energies, and either we own the energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and harness it and use it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But if we don't, if we've disowned the energy, suppressed it or repressed it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then that energy owns us right and makes us do things out of accident, or compelled to do that. We're like. How did that just happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): David, saying in the chat, the shadow is the parts of ourselves that we have buried or disowned and often have shame around. Yes, that is another great working definition. And I like that. You're bringing the the shame piece which is so important. Right? Usually we've disowned these parts or cut ourselves or disenfranchised.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We're hidden these parts because we think that they are bad. We think that they are wrong. We are ashamed that we have them
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of ourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything else that wants to be shared by way of definition of the shadow, or what is shadow?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica, saying, unclaimed desires, yes, and so this is the thing that is so ironic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and one of the many reasons why we want to work with shadow with ourselves and with our clients, because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): embedded in these parts of ourselves, that we've repressed, or suppressed, or buried, or hidden or disowned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): our desires right, if we have selfishness and shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we actually deeply, deeply want more like, we want more. Whatever like to be more selfish, right? We want more for ourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If we have power in shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): there is an unclaimed desire. Right? We might be ashamed. Oh, my God, I'm worried. I'm a power, hungry person.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but inside of that is an unclaimed shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and also a superpower right of like being in power.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If we have laziness in shadow, and we're ashamed, and I could never, ever be lazy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There is that unclaimed desire, and also a superpower of learning how to relax more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and have more space.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): hit. Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay. So then, with that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's keep on going, and I'd love to hear either. What's been resonating for you the most.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina, do you want to? Maria is asking for you to repeat what you said.
Tina Dowdy: I said, that shadow is a part of you that you
Tina Dowdy: have rejected.
Tina Dowdy: and that you hide.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): exactly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so. What's been resonating? Where? Where have you seen your claimed or unclaimed shadows? Show up?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What have you been working on
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for yourself or your clients, and I know some of you have had a few weeks, some of you. It's still new, but you can still share. I have a feeling even on some plane rides home. Some some awarenesses came to the surface as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So who wants to share? How? What have you been seeing? What have you been noticing? How have you been working with it? What wants to be shared
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on all of this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And where do you have questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): or have you not been working on it? Have you let the shadows slip back into the shadow? So of course they won't go there completely
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): once you've brought them out.
Deva Munay, Big Sur: Wendy is raising her hand. I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I didn't see that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, thanks, David Wendy, go ahead.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Do you need me to take you off mute? Hold on.
Wendy: My, my zoom. Yeah, my zoom screen, for some reason, is all different, and I couldn't. I can't find the raise your hand.
Wendy: So I figured. You know my big thing in our retreat was like
Wendy: speaking up and being seen.
Wendy: And so I
Wendy: definitely taking that with me.
Wendy: I've been working
Wendy: very hard
Wendy: with connecting with my
Wendy: confident one and being seen, and part of the exercise when you had to.
Wendy: you know, kind of acted out and like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Steroids.
Wendy: Yeah, I I feel that
Wendy: so much and like a lot of what I
Wendy: part of what I mentioned was like.
Wendy: nothing bothers me. I am just like
Wendy: all is all is great. Nothing bothers me, and I've taken that like a step further, and it really have applied that
Wendy: about nothing, bothering me
Wendy: to my
Wendy: daily life.
Wendy: and it has been really quite spectacular, because it is just just going with the flow and not
Wendy: dwelling on things that I could have like.
Wendy: you know.
Wendy: and just what is what is. And yeah, so I I really connected in with that feeling.
Wendy: And as I said, I feel like I've taken it even a step further, which I'm very grateful for.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's so great. So, first of all, you were the first person to share and be big and be seen and take up space. Yay, that would not have happened a year ago.
Wendy: I'm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Love it. Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I love how you've taken it a step further, and I hear, like as you're talking. It's not that you're bypassing feelings if feelings need to be felt. But it's more like you're not getting mired down into oh, that and that and that you're allowing yourself to stay in the flow and and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): yes, yay, so great I'm so happy to hear it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and as a reminder for everyone on shadow. You know, Wendy, the exercise that Wendy was talking about was a lean in exercise, right? And this is one of the foundational principles of working with shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): We wanna support our clients
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to lean into the places that scare them so much that they were have been so ashamed of that they've wanted to run away from right. So in Wendy's case, Wendy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): totally took on the persona of being big and not caring what other people think. If right, if they see you being big and saying what you think. And it's not like, then you're gonna be this obnoxious person out in the world doing it. But it helps you grab the superpower. And, as Veronica said, I love how she put it that unclaimed desire, and bring it more into yourself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Some.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Who else? What's been resonating. What have you been noticing? What's been feeling important, or how have you been working with it for yourself or with others?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica.
Veronica Jensen: I the last few days was
Veronica Jensen: anticipating this call, and was thinking.
Veronica Jensen: oh, my goodness, how have I have I not done anything with the shadow since then, because I was like as much as I love the prompts. I haven't like formally sat down and done things, but then I started thinking about it went, oh, holy shit! I've been working this all entire time. So 2 main pieces, one immediately I could
Veronica Jensen: feel and sense myself
Veronica Jensen: exercising that
Veronica Jensen: like power with my partner, but in a way that invites him in to like consent to whatever it is that I'm putting out there. But really speaking my own desires more clearly. And it's been met with like not even the blink of an eye, like
Veronica Jensen: yes or no, or whatever it is, it's been lovely to see that almost immediate sort of change, and then other pieces. I'm laughing because
Veronica Jensen: I I've always wanted a jeep wrangler since I was a little girl, and I bought one a couple of weeks ago, but everything around this has been
Veronica Jensen: like talk about the world moving and bending to your will. There was a whole bunch. I went out of state. I drove to La to get it, but there was a whole piece of when I was going back and forth with them that they were like, Okay, great. So you're gonna come Saturday. We don't have the title yet. The lean holder hasn't released it to us from the previous person. But we should have it in like 20 days, and I'm like
Veronica Jensen: that's not go good for me. I'm not gonna take delivery of this without a title, and take it back to my state, what other creative solutions can you come up with? And it kept on them for a few days, and lo and behold! They came up with it and had it overnight, Fedex to them the day I was Gonna get there. So I have this like beautiful teal
Veronica Jensen: out loud, like gigantic, ridiculous brick of a car that's totally impractical. But my inner child was like fuck. Yes, this is everything that you've wanted, and now I can be out and bounce around and be in nature the way that my shadow wanted to be. I. It's a bright blue that everyone will stare at me, and there's parts of me that are like, Oh, my God! I can't be. This visible people are looking. Cops might look at me.
Veronica Jensen: What is happening? I can't blend into the background, but it's like a safe ish way of living into more visibility that I can tell, will carry over into other pieces, too, and every time I look at it I smile like getting groceries is fun. So I'm pleased at the way that, like buying a car has been a spiritual experience in a way, and all of this has been shadow work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yes, a hundred percent. And I got chills
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when you you said it early on that you exercise your power right? Cause. That is so much about what you were working with, and we can just see all like all those ways. And then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): people bended to your will. And this happened. And that happened.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then this kind of side piece of like. And yeah, and and that is more visible, right? Which is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you weren't working on directly, but definitely adjacent to it. So this is. This is a way to play with that as well, so nicely done, so so nicely done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good Kelly.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): So celebrating those. I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I feel like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I've you know I've done a little bit of the homework, not all the homework. I have ideas about the homework.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But I feel like I'm doing the homework every day, and probably for the first 2 weeks the song that I sent out to our group about from
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the greatest showman. I was like dancing it every single day, and like really getting into it and stopping my feet, and probably our downstairs neighbor was like, what's going on up there, and I was like so feeling it. And now I haven't been
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): haven't been doing that as much. But I it's just there like it is dancing through me. And I
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and I can just feel how much has shifted in all these little and big ways, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): even in like launching my program, I didn't have the outcome that I said I wanted, but I am launching it from that queen
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like really powerful energy, and mine for those of you that were on a different treat. Mine was
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the bitch kind of morphed into the Queen, but she's got some bitch energy, too.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But like, really, from this place of leading. And even right now I'm
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): life on the outside. There's like all these things coming up right now, and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I just sent you note on this, Jen. I don't know if you saw it. But I also read this book, the surrender experiment, this weekend, and it's like, somehow I am
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): like merging what I just got from that book with this other energetic work that I've been doing with the shadow work, and I am like.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I literally just feel like I am being completely or like I've been dismembered in in the Shamanic world. We call it like dismemberment. And and then it's like you're being remembered. And I just like, literally Am I energetic. I feel like I'm being remembered. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and it's like the things I speak. They're just like, I'm just trusting Lawrence, like the things are coming out of my mouth and flowing, and I'm not having to prepare a bazillion things, and I'm
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I'm there just some like. There were some challenges that came up the other day, and I took a walk, and I was like, Yo, here's how this is. Gonna go.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I was like, I don't know how this needs to happen.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): What's that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No, keep on going.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And I was like, Are you F. And kidding me how to do with like the medical establishment? And I like literally sat down, had it and said I was walking. And I just had this talk with the universe was like, this is how it's gonna go. I need someone I need someone in this like format, and it used to be in the next 30 min the next 30 min, like, I need an appointment.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): It was just like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right. That's the energy that you were working with. That is the aligned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): bitch Queen. Right? Whatever whatever title you ended up at the end right. That that direct, that is confident, is willing to be seen, is willing to say it like it is, and yes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that way. And so first of all, yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like so much ya's and I wanna pull a couple of things from what you're saying. So again, I cannot emphasize this enough, but we? We have to be willing to lean into what grosses us out
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, that we're worried that we have inside of us like the most shameful thing ever
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in order to grab on to that medicine
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? Which clearly
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're doing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Veronica Wendy. Great like all the shares we've heard so far.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Number 2. The thing one of the things that Kelly mentioned. And this is important for all of us is okay. You haven't done the homework perfectly, but
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): coming back to working on it right, not having it be a once and done leaning in and leaning in and leaning in so for those of you that weren't able to make it to one of the retreats. You can still do this in a way for yourselves.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Pick a part of yourself that you don't particularly like that. You wish you didn't have
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that. You're ashamed of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I think you've all received for those of you last week. You'll receive the email, all the different homeworks over the next week and a half. Do those homeworks make a collage do a dance? Do the journaling that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): be willing to be in the energy over and over and over again.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Such good stuff.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who else? Yeah, Tina, go ahead.
Tina Dowdy: I just have a question just listening to you about the people who didn't go there. And what would you go over?
Tina Dowdy: Can an auto immune.
Tina Dowdy: Be part of shadow self piece of that you don't like about yourself, even though
Tina Dowdy: it just happened one day.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Tina. I just got chills when you said that, and I feel like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this could be such power, like so powerful for you. Right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): would be possible for you
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if you, in a more empowered way own
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the auto immune.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and we're able to mine it even more for its gold. That doesn't mean that there aren't going to be shitty days, or it's not gonna do what it's gonna do. But how would you be different
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of it?
Tina Dowdy: Yeah. And I feel like you've been reaching me through osmosis somehow through that retreat, because since last month one of the things I'm niching down to is business coaches for a female
Tina Dowdy: female entrepreneurs with chronic illness.
Tina Dowdy: because I just
Tina Dowdy: spend so much time
Tina Dowdy: suppressing it, you know. Go away doing everything I can, nutritionally, or whatever that I just keep rejecting it. But it keeps coming back, no matter what.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right, because, like any shadow, it is a part of you, right it. You can't actually cut it off or hide it, or pretend like it's not there, and the longer that you hate on it and shame on it and try to push it away.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then the more it has control over you in one way or another, and that's complicated with illness, right? So to whatever extent that's gonna be
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the more that you can
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right open up the possibility for it to shift and change, and like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): impact you in lighter and lighter and lighter ways. That doesn't have to be separate from owning it, and not being not hating on it, and being ashamed of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then taking it a step further.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): if possible, which I think it is, which is like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what are the superpowers
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): inside of it? Maybe I don't know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I said.
Tina Dowdy: Chat under.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Say that again.
Tina Dowdy: Such a fine line with that, because there's like one part of you
Tina Dowdy: that doesn't want to be identified by it, because it's not who you are. So then you just reject it
Tina Dowdy: and hope for the best.
Tina Dowdy: And then and there's the other part of you that says, Well, you can't ignore it anymore. It's there, and it's a part of you. And now you have to love yourself to death. You know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right, that's right. And I think it's not identifying with it in the sense of like. And now this dictates everything.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But it's more about identifying it, identifying with it as
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): no, this is a part of me, at least right now
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): may not be in the future, but so long as it is a part of me.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm not going to hate on it, because, hating on it is hating myself.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is there something more you want to say? What.
Tina Dowdy: No, it's just been a hard time, this with it, that's all.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know, I know.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it has been.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what I want
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): most for you is to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): not only have compassion.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but not feel disempowered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): even when it's like when yes, there are shitty moments, right and more than moments sometimes, but to not feel overarching, disempowered
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because of that.
Tina Dowdy: I'm actually, I feel like I've made a breakthrough, but more can be done.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You're going there. And I love that. This is how you're. You're
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pivoting your work because more people need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And you have so much to share around it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so much.
Tina Dowdy: You.
Tina Dowdy: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Greg.
Gregg Berman: Just wanna check in, for instance, it's all bladder raise or physical hand. If
Gregg Berman: I don't want it to share.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Flot will get Flotta next.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thanks for telling me.
Gregg Berman: So
Gregg Berman: I'm not sure wanna begin. But but it after.
Gregg Berman: you know, when when we did, our little
Gregg Berman: group of 3 being in the energy of of
Gregg Berman: our shadow, and and for me.
Gregg Berman: you know it, it being the I forget how I praised it, but the the arrogant asshole, because I don't, you know, and I didn't want to receive
Gregg Berman: Accolades receive
Gregg Berman: acknowledgement for my gifts, and
Gregg Berman: and I was noticing as we started that like.
Gregg Berman: you know, the thoughts in my head. I don't know how I'm gonna do this. What does it look like to be in the energy of this, and I was just so excited by the way the energy was coming out of me. That's why I wanted to share it with the whole group, and and so that in itself was great. But then I I shared this with the the group of us that was there together, but that a couple of weeks later I was in a
Gregg Berman: friend's birthday party, and she did what she calls a vulnerable sharing cabaret, and so I shared my journey of sharing that piece, and then shared the same piece over again with that group, and it was so great to be in that energy again, and to get the reflection both of people don't know me, and of people who have known me for many, many years, of seeing
Gregg Berman: what it was like to witness me in that energy, and
Gregg Berman: and that has
Gregg Berman: resonated throughout my life, and resonated in what I
Gregg Berman: I came into the retreat, not knowing what shadow I wanted to work on, but just knowing I wanted it to impact the marketing in my business, and how I'm showing up for that, and and it has, and noticing, like the the fears and anxieties that come up when I go to hit, send on a newsletter or something else, and and noticing. Oh, that's that's just stories. And and I don't have to live from those stories, and it's it's felt
Gregg Berman: really good
Gregg Berman: to do that. And and then to take in and fully receive. I mean there. There been many ways that I've already.
Gregg Berman: I was already receiving energy, but there've been certain aspects where I don't allow myself to, and so noticing where I'm allowing myself to receive that now has felt really good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love it so. First of all, it was just. I'm having images of you again. In that evocation. And just how glorious it was to behold you in your power and empowering everyone else through that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love, that you had opportunity to share that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in front of a different group, and it actually speaks so much that you ha! That you were willing to share that in front of others like how far you're coming. With this energy and owning
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and integrating it. So I was so so happy to hear it, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): fears come up before you hit. Send. That's part of my process. I have this concern. But I'm gonna send. I'm gonna hit. Send, anyway, right?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So so nicely done. I'm so happy to hear it and thank you for reminding us of another one of the pieces which is those evocations. Right? Come back, read them, read them to yourself, you be like, be in that energy, pivot and pave it and pivot. Love it, love to hear it.
Gregg Berman: Yeah, it's it's really powerful for me to do that. I mean one to be in the energy of it. But also to you know some of the words that I use are the very things that that trigger me and like. No, but I don't want to be that thing. And and so knowing I'm not that thing, and I'm giving myself permission, and I'm giving other people permission. Feel so valuable to like recycle that over and over.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I love it. Yeah. And there's something about the recycling it over and over that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): desensitizes to the shame around it. Right? It just starts to become a regular thing like, yeah. And I am this, yeah, right? But there is like that desensiti desensitization process. When we repeat and we repeat, and we repeat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, great, nice.
Gregg Berman: The not wronging of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Bada.
Vlada Tomova: Wow! So in inspiring to hear everyone
Vlada Tomova: I feel like. Similarly, I was feeling like, Oh, not doing much around this and
Vlada Tomova: Then
Vlada Tomova: I'm just revisiting.
Vlada Tomova: as everybody's speaking like. Well, it's the point of view that we have on what's happening.
Vlada Tomova: And
Vlada Tomova: I realized that this shadow that I was working with the most was this
Vlada Tomova: like being this creature that allows to have like
Vlada Tomova: luxurious moments, and not only luxurious moments with having this like very luxurious life.
Vlada Tomova: and how criticized that is by society that is like you have to have a hard life and work hard, and
Vlada Tomova: and all of these like. You're so privileged to have these like fine bubbly life and fetters and stuff, and
Vlada Tomova: and so
Vlada Tomova: I can see that I'm allowing myself, despite that my body's
Vlada Tomova: is fighting it, and my mind is fighting it. But I've I'm realizing that I'm I'm just letting myself
Vlada Tomova: being that space, however uncomfortable it is like.
Vlada Tomova: I have a number of urgent projects that are burning my head, but I
Vlada Tomova: have to let them like
Vlada Tomova: fly away and
Vlada Tomova: and allow myself the luxuriousness of like really slowing down
Vlada Tomova: and just being
Vlada Tomova: being in whatever emotions are coming from having to what? From letting go of my house of 22 years, with all the memories and all the creations, and all the people who
Vlada Tomova: we're born, or almost died here. All this stuff. It's it's like it's a luxury to have this space.
Vlada Tomova: And
Vlada Tomova: yeah, it's part of that process of just being
Vlada Tomova: that
Vlada Tomova: frivolous
Vlada Tomova: part of of of me that I'm not allowing myself to have
Vlada Tomova: the part that is denied to so many of us that
Vlada Tomova: oh, you have to be doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. This is this is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You have to suffer and earn your keep.
Vlada Tomova: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All all the things. So I hear that it's like it's uncomfortable, which is okay. Right? Discomfort is a sign of growth, but that you're actually in your way, you're sticking with it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right and saying, Where can I have more luxury within this situation? With this, within this situation, am I willing to allow this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to myself, even when I have a million things on my mind. Am I willing to just like, allow this to myself and learn to be okay
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And that's huge.
Vlada Tomova: No.
Vlada Tomova: yeah. And for the first time I started sharing some pieces
Vlada Tomova: that
Vlada Tomova: that we're totally unpolished. And we're talking about like the anxiety of going through this process. And
Vlada Tomova: yeah, it feels great to share, to share very openly about it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's another way of.
Vlada Tomova: From one great.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's that's another way of working with it. And I'm so glad you found that intuitively right sharing with our communities cause that you're owning it, and you're being seen in the owning it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's shadower.
Vlada Tomova: Thank you.
Vlada Tomova: Possible.
Vlada Tomova: Thank you. Thanks.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shiva.
Deva Munay: Hi, everybody. Yeah, I can totally relate to that plot of like
Deva Munay: this kind of like we have to suffer. And
Deva Munay: what came up for me at the end of the retreat. Was this this
Deva Munay: confrontational piece of while I was working with the extremes, the hyper hypo of being a mess or being like super. Ocd, and yeah, I just, I've been finding it really
Deva Munay: interesting. I, too, just moved out of my former abode of 12 years, even though I've been living in this house with my partner for a year, I didn't really like claim it as my home, because I still had everything on the other side of the fence, and I was like, Oh, this is just the test run. But that's my home, even though I wasn't there, and so we had our 3 year anniversary, and it was my
Deva Munay: coincided with like, it's been a year or over a year of you having this, you know, we need to free up your house for someone else in the community, and
Deva Munay: I totally underestimated so many things about like how much time it was going to take to move because I still
Deva Munay: had everything there or not. I don't know a lot of stuff. But then, like yesterday, I finally wrote this
Deva Munay: newsletter to my group of like
Deva Munay: personal update, like I've moved. And I claimed this as my home.
Deva Munay: And then I'm relating to Vlada to like, and it feels so good and giddy, and I feel a little guilty because it's like
Deva Munay: this insanely gorgeous house that I'm I'm like holy shit, holy shift! This is my. This is my home now, and this is my world, and I'm in this, you know, very committed relationship. And I have, like another level of admiration, re and respect for my partner, and you know he also has a loft in San Francisco, so
Deva Munay: like the road's gone out in big surrogate or an island. Everything's closed down until the end of May, and I'm like, Oh, but I can.
Deva Munay: There's 2 convoys a day, so we're calling it the ferry. We can leave at 7 Am. Leave our inter at 7 or 5 Pm. And that's it. Otherwise we're like stuck in big sir, or out of big sur, except for those 2 times, but
Deva Munay: just really seeing like how much of unbearing, of worthiness and
Deva Munay: keeping that aligned center of like. Yes, I have in many ways a very charmed life, and
Deva Munay: I've also done so like owning and acknowledging like.
Deva Munay: how much
Deva Munay: work I've done over the last 25 years of like putting myself like
Deva Munay: pilgrimage after pilgrimage of like soul searching and unpacking, and then, like
Deva Munay: I can just rest in it like
Deva Munay: I don't have to try and struggle
Deva Munay: as hard like. It's okay to just kind of relish in like life is actually, despite my family won't talk to me. But all of these things are like, really, really beautiful and good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So I'm so so glad to hear it. I know. I think the last I heard about the move. It was like right before, and there there was so much churning, and it feels like exactly like you're you're in your power with it, you know you deserve it. You're leaning into like the luxury and the beauty, and that I get to have this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I do think it's not exactly related to the like to the confrontation piece you were working on the retreat, but I think it's adjacent to it, because it's saying like I, I deserve right. So much of the confrontation is like I deserve to say what I'm thinking right, and have that voice. And there there is a big piece in this of like I deserve to, and that doesn't take away from anybody else's deserve.
Deva Munay: And that's huge. Because when I was young, my mom and I got in this
Deva Munay: argument, and I said something to like, well, I think I deserve, and maybe it was like a new pair of pants because my sister gotten. And she said, you don't deserve anything. If you get anything, it's because God gives it to you, but you don't, and she like pointed her finger. You don't deserve anything, and I've held that as like.
Deva Munay: I don't deserve anything. And now to be able to be like I deserve this even that's like, still, really.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): No, I feel it like I feel it as you're saying right. And that and that incident came out of you, speaking your needs to be met
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and to get that right. So then we can see even more how the confrontation piece.
Deva Munay: So.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it, you know, so connected in with the like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do I really deserve? Right? So yeah, it feels like you're you're working on both together, and I'm so so happy you get to take pleasure in your home. Yay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know it's really soon for the people that just came back on Friday. You're probably still in the like retr, you know, transition back process. But I do wanna make space, even though.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And first of all, I hope that this is inspiring for all of you. You're seeing what is, you know, like a as you move along in time. But I would like to make space for some of you that were here in Charlotte last week. What's resonating for you? What's feeling important? Caroline?
Caroline Holke: I I think honestly, the biggest thing for me is, I feel more present.
Caroline Holke: which is really my intention from
Caroline Holke: when we first started. But I'm really, really, really, really tired.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Caroline Holke: Really tired.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Caroline Holke: so I'm sorry I don't have much more like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's okay. No, you don't have to.
Caroline Holke: Malaysian, but of course.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You should be tired. As I kept on saying, I worked you all really hard.
Caroline Holke: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm also happy to hear that you're feeling present, and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think it relates to what you were working on to right like cause. Look at what you just said, Caroline.
Caroline Holke: So yeah, I didn't. I don't know. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And right, and I don't have the words right. I don't like. This is exactly what you were working on, and you were able to just say, Yeah, and both, I am fully present, and I don't have the words. So just right there, big.
Caroline Holke: Thank you. Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And for.
Jennifer Kittredge: Yeah, I feel the same. I just texted Caroline. I'm like, I am so exhausted right now I can't focus. I'm sorry.
Jennifer Kittredge: I think so. 2 things. The biggest shift for me was that anger, exercise that I did like I there's such a shift in me, and the empowerment that I feel is really incredible. It was really big for me, because I don't allow myself to get angry. So to be able to, and I had a hard time getting there. But then, once I got there, that just was incredible.
Jennifer Kittredge: And then 2. I had a phone call today with an organization that reached out to me. They found maybe a social media to be one of their their secular resources for post abortion healing which I thought was really cool, cause they are a Christian organization. But they want resources for women who aren't Christians. That what? Yeah. So we had a really great conversation. It's really cool.
Jennifer Kittredge: Yeah, I just felt so empowered on the call. And yeah, it was really awesome.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's related exactly to what had the rate, the anger.
Jennifer Kittredge: Aye.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Last week such a beautiful from there, and for those of you that were not with us in person last week
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Jennifer did amazing work, not just for herself, but for all of us in the group around. We did a a whole. We did a ritual around, letting anger rise and be voiced
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something that we all need right, something that we all need.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Melanie.
Melody Noll: So nice to hear all of these shares from everyone. Gosh, thank you
Melody Noll: and Caroline, I am with you with a tired.
Melody Noll: I slept 13 h.
Melody Noll: When I got home it was so necessary. Part of the fatigue, of course, was the work that was done. The other part was this area where I've been suffering with my family, and not getting much sleep since before I
Melody Noll: since
Melody Noll: Before I came to the Retreat.
Melody Noll: and last night
Melody Noll: I had a dream, and the bit that I can remember was kind of trying to get to the bathroom and walking through opening the door. And that's just like this giant cesspool. I mean, it was fluid and flowing, and in the toilet area you couldn't even see it, because there was all this shit with
Melody Noll: like coming out of it. It was the weirdest energy, the strangest picture.
Melody Noll: And this morning, and I'm I'm apologize for being late. But my cousin called me to let me know that a friend had died, and that conversation led into me actually
Melody Noll: with is.
Melody Noll: and
Melody Noll: gratitude and joy being able to step into my truth tale my truth, teller, the power of my truth. Teller the power of my I'm going to speak up.
Melody Noll: and this is a cousin I've had difficulty with, but not a cousin, that I'm strugg. The cousins I'm struggling with now, and I laid some serious truth on her. I mean it was a conversation, and it was so wonderful, and as all of these things go is, as soon as you speak your truth, they speak theirs, and then you get the whole or a bigger picture, and I said to her, My God! I wish I had spoken with you years ago.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Hmm! It was.
Melody Noll: So, so so wonderful! And I thought great.
Melody Noll: I emerged from the shit show, or I I was willing to step into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right.
Melody Noll: Okay, that's great. It was really.
Melody Noll: it was sort of Joanna. What were you saying earlier to someone? If it's icky, you gotta really be willing to lead into it while I went like.
Melody Noll: So it's really, really wonderful.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so happy to hear it. And for anyone that wasn't with us last week Melody was working on her. The truth teller is the aligned version of it. But first is like the one that indiscriminately says exactly what she thinks right to pull the medicine, to be able to be that truth, teller. I I love that already. You're seeing proofs of it. Yes.
Melody Noll: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not just for yourself, right? But then it it did. So much for your cousin, for it's like all. And this is the thing with the shadow right? For whatever the shadow is that we're working on, we're pushing it away. And we're pushing away for so many of those shadows because we're also scared that other people are gonna hate us, or it's gonna impact them. Or they're gonna think this, that and the other of us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it turns out when we're using the medicine of the shadow, we're helping other people
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): while we help ourselves.
Melody Noll: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kim.
Kim Davies: Melody that was such a powerful share. I have been traveling a lot, and I'm super tired and
Kim Davies: I've been hesitant to share, because I feel like I'm just struggling with
Kim Davies: the shadow.
Kim Davies: So that a class that I was promoting, and I just
Kim Davies: the brat, was like, I don't want.
Kim Davies: I don't wanna share. I don't wanna promote this. I just don't wanna that I don't. Wanna. So I'm not in the aligned energy, and
Kim Davies: and I felt relief that the quest didn't go, and I just have a lot of
Kim Davies: I don't know
Kim Davies: it was going on
Kim Davies: that I haven't figured out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad you're bringing it forward and sharing. And you know, you know, we've been emailing the last few days, and I, too, am like so disappointed that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with you that the class didn't happen.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I don't. I have no agenda in asking this. This is out of curiosity. I could be wrong?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is it true that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you're not in the aligned brat? Or is it true that it really wasn't the right time
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for that.
Kim Davies: I don't know. I go back and forth on that
Kim Davies: because I feel like it's been years like I've been.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I know.
Kim Davies: Putting off things. And it's like, really, it's it's still not the aligned time.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You know that's why I like, was hesitant to ask the question. Because I you know.
Kim Davies: Yeah, but it but it very well could not be
Kim Davies: you know, cause I said I did. I felt relief, too.
Kim Davies: Yeah,
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, that's why that's why.
Kim Davies: Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, it may be that there's a different way to do the marketing like the brat it so there it might be that it's you're not. You're still like over here, right? And it's working with it more consciously
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to get more aligned. I think that's a piece of it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for sure, right.
Kim Davies: Hidden.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So there's more work.
Kim Davies: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I also wonder if the brat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): was rebelling. I didn't get to read your last email. But I I like skimmed. And so some of the human design, or whatever you were talking about there like. I do wonder if there was a rebellion towards
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the way that you were marketing it because it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): it wasn't right for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Brat was having a say in that, so I don't wanna. I don't.
Kim Davies: Yeah, on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Plans like, I don't want to blame it all on that and be like, Yeah, that's all good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I I I do. I do think it might be a little bit of both. Does that land for you?
Kim Davies: That does. Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And a and if it does, and I know you're working on it, I think it's about finding.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Look.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Marketing is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): like we still have to get ourselves tomorrow, like I have to. Also, right? So it's not that it's not going to be uncomfortable or feel like a thing sometimes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): But I do. I do think part of this is about
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): finding a way of marketing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is more aligned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): because that brat inside of you is one of your super powers, and it is gonna like rage against it. If it's not a way that feels right.
Kim Davies: Yeah, yeah, I like that perspective. It totally resonates. But cause I was just questioning like, why, why am I having such a hard time with this. Why is that voice coming up?
Kim Davies: Yeah, and just figuring out how to do that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So I think a good next step. So continue to work with the brat and lean in so that you can use it right instead of it using you for the pieces that right, but on a on a like marketing strategic note, if you're not already doing this.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I would take a little time to assess
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the plan for that launch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and whether you did all of the pieces, whether you did the piece or you didn't do the piece
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): what feels good in your system
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and what feels doesn't, what doesn't feel good in your system.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then for the ones that don't feel good, put it through another litmus test it? Does it not feel good just because it's scary, or does it not feel good? Because really it doesn't align with my values and who I am.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I think that will help inform
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): whatever this vision of this more aligned marketing is.
Kim Davies: Ferrito
Kim Davies: does that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's something that would be possible.
Kim Davies: Yeah, totally.
Kim Davies: Yeah, thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And can I
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you for one more minute.
Kim Davies: Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Can you come back into the aligned brat? What did we call the aligned brat? I can't remember.
Kim Davies: Hmm! I don't know if I had a word.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For the hypo. What would you do? Your evocation on? Was it related.
Kim Davies: I I don't remember having a
Kim Davies: name for it.
Kim Davies: I mean, are we.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Writing Arugula in the chat. Maybe that means something for you.
Kim Davies: Aruba. Yeah. Represents the
Kim Davies: What we say in the improv world as as
Kim Davies: being lighthearted about making mistakes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Music.
Kim Davies: I'm really laughing.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Is that the the the place in between, like the brat
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the one who doesn't stand up at all.
Kim Davies: I'm not sure.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): do you feel like you can come into that middle energy versus the hyper for those of you that weren't at a shadow or treat part of shadows it it's like a hyper hypo kind of situation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You come into that aligned place in the middle.
Kim Davies: Hmm.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Okay, continue to be with that for a moment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How would you describe this place, Ken? What is that.
Kim Davies: This is the
Kim Davies: part that can speak what she wants and what she needs, and
Kim Davies: and then there was that part about like not caring so much about what other people
Kim Davies: think.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So continue to be with that feeling and that energy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What does this one want you to know
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): about that last launch? And the program not happening.
Kim Davies: So I wasn't ready, and I didn't really want
Kim Davies: to do it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that feel true?
Kim Davies: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that's why it didn't work.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You didn't really want to do it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at least that way. Right? Yeah.
Kim Davies: yep!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's feeling important from all of this.
Kim Davies: Just like the
Kim Davies: the pressure I put on myself. And then this it internal.
Kim Davies: I feel like I'm always fighting
Kim Davies: with myself.
Kim Davies: but maybe not really listening to what?
Kim Davies: What's really?
Kim Davies: What am I really getting at? Or
Kim Davies: you know, I wanna be leading from a place of?
Kim Davies: I want this.
Kim Davies: and this is the time and
Kim Davies: as opposed to thinking I have to do something on someone's other timeline
Kim Davies: fall.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I think a good exercise for you to work. The inner piece is the hyper hypo.
Kim Davies: And
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): To the ends, and then coming back to that middle place.
Kim Davies: Yeah.
Kim Davies: Okay, good. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Has anyone worked on it with a client yet? Or even if not like, formally right, just started to notice
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): pieces with clients.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Kelly, yeah. Go ahead.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I have. I've not done like the hyper. It's not true. I think I did like the hyper hypo a version of that with a client, but it's mostly been just naming it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): Well, 2 things, one like naming when I see it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And it's like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I mean, it's both my work and their work right? Because it's my
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): my bitch queen naming it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and she's really holding the space. But she's also holding the space of doing it for herself. So it's it's like I. It's elevating me to speak it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): and
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it has just been met with so much like
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): clarity and yes, energy, and like almost ferocity on their parts. And I'm just feeling
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's so potent and exciting cause I just feel the up leveling that's happening. And I mentioned the piece in the QA. Earlier about feeling people are in these 2 different phases, and one of them, I feel like the shadow work just took her from phase one to phase 2. And
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): it's really, it's so exciting. And it's like, yeah, clean that part of yourself. And it's just it's it's really.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): really beautiful, and people are so opening with some of them. It was right after we had done it, and I was still just in my own head, and I was like, Hey.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): I just finished this. I would love to do this with you. I'm tabling it. I want, you know I'm not. I'm not ready, cause I'm too in it.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): But I would love to do this with you if that calls. And people are like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So it's yeah, I'm it just feels very exciting and like a whole level of up leveling and work with clients. So I'm very grateful for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad I'm so glad you're talking about it and mentioning it. And what you're speaking to is use something that we looked at in the retreats which is usually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): shadow that we're working on is for most of our ideal clients good medicine for them, too. Right? So even just to start to look for that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And which of our clients need that are in our groups? You know we have good inroads in there.
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): And it's so leveling right of the
Kelly Lubeck (she/her): the playing field. So yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): anything else that wants to be. I have a little teaching to do if we have time and space for it. But also, I want it, you know. Continue to just be led by all of you. Anything else that wants to be mentioned, or questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Anything like that? If not, I'll I'll take us
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into a little piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Wendy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You there, Wendy.
Wendy: I'm sorry my new zoom is like
Wendy: it's hard for me to navigate I just wanna say that I I practiced it a little bit with somebody actually this morning.
Wendy: and
Wendy: had her go into, you know the other extreme from feeling
Wendy: not
Wendy: good enough, not worthy all that kind of stuff, and had her like
Wendy: go to the other extreme. And at first she's like it feels really silly, you know, like I said, well like get, you know, like you know, accept the silly, and see you know
Wendy: how you and and she was able to feel it more and
Wendy: She really like got into a posture. She visualized
Wendy: what she was wearing, what she was like on a cloud like, and really had.
Wendy: like you could see how empowered she felt.
Wendy: and we had to. Unfortunately, we were like running out of time, so I
Wendy: asked her to do some journaling on that and to go.
Wendy: you know, to try to get into that
Wendy: body
Wendy: space and feel that and to try to do it
Wendy: like daily if she can, because I feel like we've like been in that other space. And those pathways are so set in us that
Wendy: it's important to keep
Wendy: at it and doing the work
Wendy: daily to try to make those new pathways.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, I love it. I love that you are experimenting with. It sounds like it was really powerful. And I wanna pull on 2 pieces for all of us that you're sharing one is that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): as and we looked at this in their tweets, some of it is supposed to feel silly, because the the silly disarms us at first, and allows us to go to that reviled
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): place
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? The place that otherwise we'd be like no effing way am I that I would want to pretend
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to be that right? So actually light hearted, silly? Again mute. Sometimes we think so. Shadow work. It's so serious. But actually, the lightheartedness is a strategy that helps disarm the defenses to be willing to go there. So I love how you handle that, too. Like, yeah, just be okay with the silly right? And yes, the then the practicing. So I love that you gave her that journaling homework.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): If someone is actually gonna do it daily. It'll be a miracle, but you know, maybe she'll do it a couple of times a week, or at least a few times, and that would be great.
Wendy: Yeah, I I just said, like to journal on it like the one time and read it out loud
Wendy: and but to try to get into that
Wendy: posture
Wendy: more on a daily basis and to feel in. Because, yeah, I don't think she'll
Wendy: journal daily.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Not just. She can't.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good!
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good! What else? Thoughts, ideas, questions.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): then I'm glad we have time for this other piece.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): At both the retreats. We looked at this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): briefly, and I want to
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): just bring us a little like, go a little bit deeper into it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It relates a little bit to resistance. Archetypes
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but it also it has its own flavor.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we looked at the retreats at 5 or 6 different ways that we can spot
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a shadow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in a client. We looked at projection. We looked at them, feeling shame. We looked right, like all all the different pieces.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): when I gave the handout in the last day there was a there was an extra one that I that I put there, and I wish I had it in front of me. If somebody does, it's something like the the practitioner feels like they've stepped into the shadow energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): something like that. I see some of you have it in front of you, if you can just say exactly what it says, it's it's that last point under on the first page, on how to spot the shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, Caroline, go ahead.
Caroline Holke: The last one is you. You, the coach, play into the shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yes, you, the coach, play into the shadow. Thank you. I forgot the exact words that I used it. So I want to talk about this one
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit more, because this can sometimes happen. We don't even necessarily need to do shadow work when this happens, although we can. But I want to talk about this concept of us as practitioner. This is this is an indicator that there's something that's being disowned by the client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): When we all of a sudden we feel like we're playing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a role
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in it with them.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I wanna give a couple of examples and break this down
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): a little bit more.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So let's say we have a client
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): who
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): has selfishness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in shadow.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? They have disowned
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the part of themselves
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that is self fit.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that that wants like the. And again, I love what Veronic said early, the unclaimed desire for it, too. Right like I want it. I want more
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): now.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Remember one of the other signs that shadow that someone has laying in shadow is projection right? Like they see it in other people. You've spot it. You got it, and it gets their goat.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Well, what can sometimes happen
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): is that the client can then project
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that shadow
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): on to the practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So in this scenario. Selfishness is unrealized, it's disowned, but it's really desired
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And then, all of a sudden, maybe the client says in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so many words to the practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): you practitioner are being selfish here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with me. Right? You're not giving me enough time. You're right like this, that and the other thing right? So then the shadow gets projected
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): onto the practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and if the practitioner is not grounded.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): regulated.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): doing their own work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of the sudden
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the practitioner starts to question if they are, in fact, to self it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my gosh! Are my rates too high?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my gosh! Should I be giving more time?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Oh, my gosh! Should I be responding to emails the day of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? It's like we've stepped
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): into. Now we're playing in. We're playing it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with the. And we're holding the shadow on the outside
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the client who isn't owning it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Does that make sense?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let me pause here. What's sparking for you? What's feeling important on this?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What are you seeing in this one? Have you done this, or someone done this to you?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'll give another example.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Let's say that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the client is not taking responsibility for themselves in their own life.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So that's something that's kind of in shadow for them. They can't access it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): They're not taking responsibility either being disorganized or not getting right, taking that whatever it is.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): all of a sudden.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in session or over email, or whatever it is with the practitioner
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's projected onto the practitioner.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): You practitioner aren't responsible enough, and that's why I'm not getting things done, or you practitioner aren't organized enough, and that's why things seem so chaotic.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And then, all of a sudden.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the practitioner is like, wait! Am I not
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): responsible enough? Have I not taken enough responsibility here
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): with my client?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): What's sparking. What's feeling? Yeah, Caroline, go ahead, and I can't see everyone if you're raising hands. So also you can take yourselves off off mute.
Caroline Holke: This is
Caroline Holke: kind of the opposite. I don't know, but maybe there's something in here, but I had a client that I've wrapped up with
Caroline Holke: about a month or so ago, and I was getting so frustrated with her because she wasn't taking
Caroline Holke: responsibility for the actions that she was taking.
Caroline Holke: So she wasn't protecting it on me or anything
Caroline Holke: I don't know. Does that
Caroline Holke: absolutely. I mean.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So it's energy. Right? So then, so what's happening? There is the hyper hypo with you and your client.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): She's she's very irresponsible and like, but it's in shadow. And then that's causing you to be controlling, at least in.
Caroline Holke: I'm like, look! Don't you see that idea? So right like.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So that can also happen. Sometimes, too, is like we go to the the OP, because shadow works in the extremes, and the hyper hypo.
Caroline Holke: Yeah, he.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Go to the extreme
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right, the other extreme, which is kind of what you're describing here. She's so irresponsible, and you're like, Oh, my God control. I need to control this right. I have to right. So again, because it's energy. We end up in this dance, and then
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then we play on, you know, and that's why we want to kind of be grounded and see what's going on. But.
Caroline Holke: Yeah, I I I know that there's something. There was something with this particular client that I just. I felt it
Caroline Holke: the whole time, and
Caroline Holke: I knew something was off, but I didn't. I couldn't quite pull it together. So anyway, this is the last. This is good stuff to think about. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So well, can it? Can we take it so now that you see it like, let's say you were still working with the client, what would you wanna say to that client to start to co-create awareness.
Caroline Holke: Well, the things that I tried were.
Caroline Holke: you know.
Caroline Holke: Why not? Just like stop doing this.
Caroline Holke: you know you don't have to do this at all, and so that
Caroline Holke: I think that was a turning point for her. She were. She said that later that she was like, no, no, no, I really want this. I really want this
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): How could you, Co, and I love that? And that sounds great. And I'm gonna press you even more. Can you more explicit? How could you more explicitly Co. Create awareness
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the client.
Caroline Holke: And one was happy.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): For her, so that she could see it even more clearly.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): With this being irresponsible.
Caroline Holke: yeah.
Caroline Holke: the questioning of well, how did this happen?
Caroline Holke: I did. I tried the you seem like you're so put together and so like the resistance. Architect thing.
Caroline Holke: What do you think is going on?
Caroline Holke: I just wonder if I was doing it from more of a grounded energy from.
Caroline Holke: I didn't want to take her on at the beginning, like I knew that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): So there you go right there, right.
Caroline Holke: Like I was doing. I feel like I was doing all the things, but I was like pissed.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, so, okay, good. So great awareness. Right?
Caroline Holke: Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Great awareness. So that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's the big shift.
Caroline Holke: Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. But if you feel so, but this is such an important point I'm bringing up like, if we have pro as practitioners
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): feel out of our own energy with a client like we're really pissed, or we're really chaotic, or we feel really small or like, that's not our regular energy. That's this is part of what we're talking about here. It's like, there's right there. There's we've interacted with the energy
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): of the shadow in some way.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? And it's activated.
Caroline Holke: Ranged.
Caroline Holke: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Greg.
Gregg Berman: I'm not sure if this is exactly shadow, but it's definitely around resistance. And specific client of mine who I've I've seen on and off for years, and they've
Gregg Berman: referred many people to me. And we were
Gregg Berman: working
Gregg Berman: a few months ago around something around the generalized
Gregg Berman: fear of ours, but also a specific fear in terms of
Gregg Berman: travel and in terms of health, and
Gregg Berman: how it shows up in our life. And and we
Gregg Berman: we're talking about working on a traumatic incident from childhood, and
Gregg Berman: and all the fears that came up around doing that. And and we did talk about the resistance to that. And we actually spent many, many sessions talking about that which that in itself was really really super valuable. And I, I said to her.
Gregg Berman: You know it doesn't matter if we ever end up working. I mean, I think it would be valuable to work on this specific thing. But even if we don't just the work that we're doing on talking about what comes up at the thought of working on it is really helpful.
Gregg Berman: And so all that was great, but then
Gregg Berman: then she decided she wanted to work on it, and and as soon as she decided she wanted to work on it.
Gregg Berman: She got pissed off about something I did I don't even remember what. And then I haven't seen her in a couple of months, and she's she's texted me a few times and and said, Why, but I've
Gregg Berman: been
Gregg Berman: I'm I actually plan on reaching out to her today. But I've been like.
Gregg Berman: alright. Well, how do I
Gregg Berman: want to approach this? And I have ideas, but I feel
Gregg Berman: unsure because I don't want to. I want to be
Gregg Berman: in a place of both able to acknowledge if I did something that didn't work for her, but also
Gregg Berman: what I'm seeing in her of like
Gregg Berman: this I
Gregg Berman: all all of a sudden when you decided you wanted to work on this suddenly you know it's silence.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Absolutely. Did she tell you what she is upset at you for?
Gregg Berman: I don't. I don't even know that she is upset now. This this was this was.
Gregg Berman: I think it. If I'm remembering correctly if it was at the end of a session where
Gregg Berman: she
Gregg Berman: she wanted in that moment just to hear
Gregg Berman: platitudes and light fluffy stuff, and I didn't go directly there. And and
Gregg Berman: you know, so she's like, that's not working for me right now. And I'm like, no, it's okay. That's not working for you right now and but
Gregg Berman: but since that time I mean, I think we talked about
Gregg Berman: that. But since that time it's built.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. And does that relate to her fear like whatever you were gonna work on? Is there something around self worth or validation, or
Gregg Berman: yeah. I
Gregg Berman: I'm not.
Gregg Berman: I'm not
Gregg Berman: sure but I mean 1 one of the things that happens for her. We actually did work. We actually did do some more work
Gregg Berman: after that. But what happens is
Gregg Berman: she finds somebody else who's struggling, and
Gregg Berman: you know she's got a friend who's dying, or she's got this person who has no money, and she ends up putting all her energy into them. And so we end up working on the things that come up around that instead of working on what's going on with her.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so yes. So first, you wanna clear the air which it sounds like you did, and you know, acknowledge. And then when I'd say, when you reach out to her
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): today, you you know, you can say something like
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and in your own words I'm just whatever. But you know I've really missed you. It's been a while since we've been in session, and I've been thinking so much about you. I know that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): where we left off was, we were just about to work on X right, whatever that big fear is. And it was so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm big and courageous
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for you to like, say, yes.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): this is what I want to work on.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and I might not be getting this right, only you know. But sometimes, right after we say a big yes to a stretch.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): All of a sudden the fear gets even like louder.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): but we don't hear it as I'm scared. It just causes us to maybe pull back.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And I'm just, you know, I'm wondering. Do, since any of that has been going on between you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's okay, and let her decide for herself after you lay it out.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, that way.
Gregg Berman: Awesome. Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Vlada.
Vlada Tomova: great great awarenesses here.
Vlada Tomova: What's coming as a what's resonating as an example like that for me is something that came through actually, not with a coaching client.
Vlada Tomova: but with someone
Vlada Tomova: personal with my with my boyfriend.
Vlada Tomova: who I visited right after our retreat.
Vlada Tomova: and I was so excited to share with him about what the retreat was about, and he was very fascinated. He was asking me questions.
Vlada Tomova: and then, soon after that he started reflecting back to me
Vlada Tomova: something that at first I thought was a positive reflection, and then it turned out to be
Vlada Tomova: a critical reflection. As you like.
Vlada Tomova: You're so relaxed.
Vlada Tomova: How can you be so like floating on a cloud.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And you were worried. I remember you were worried about that like.
Vlada Tomova: I move.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The big thing is, how could you go in feeling luxurious and relaxed, and all of that where he's usually not in that space
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): at all.
Vlada Tomova: Yes.
Vlada Tomova: and to
Vlada Tomova: to give him credit, he had actually done something that he had never done before
Vlada Tomova: in his own right.
Vlada Tomova: like in that reality. People don't take vacation.
Vlada Tomova: In 38 years of his life he had never taken vacation
Vlada Tomova: 0 like decided, and I am going to take
Vlada Tomova: to one or 2 days, so he had actually cleared several days to just be together, and he cleared more time as we're going.
Vlada Tomova: And so this was very triggering for him, extremely triggering. He spent money that he barely has.
Vlada Tomova: so
Vlada Tomova: it was shocking to his system as well.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right and
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oh, sorry! Go ahead!
Vlada Tomova: No, no, no, yeah. So it was very hard for me. It was. It felt very hurtful on the moment, and I kept reflecting on that, and then
Vlada Tomova: my reflection came to like.
Vlada Tomova: But this is where I am, so I I am willing to stand where I am, and if, for whatever reason. So it was like an an energetic adjustment for me. So that means that
Vlada Tomova: I and him are not aligned to be I I was basically, I came to the conclusion that
Vlada Tomova: I might have to let this go.
Vlada Tomova: But the more important part is my own alignment.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): That's right.
Vlada Tomova: And I kept communicating with him.
Vlada Tomova: and to my deepest and lovelyest surprise, he's been coming around. We've been
Vlada Tomova: having much more connected understanding that we are in different realities, but that we care for each other, that we want to work on this. But we want to keep
Vlada Tomova: yeah with work as well where I I have to stand in my full alignment. This is not, if as much as I want this. This is not possible for me, for whatever reason right now, so.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah, there's 2 things I wanna pull from what you're saying. So first of all, just well, side yay, that he's coming around right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's, you know, cause it could. Might not turn out. Couldn't right, but he is so yay, but bigger. Yay for you, standing in your alignment right? So that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that's number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And to bring it back to the practitioner point of view, when a client tries to like project that onto us.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): the best thing that we can do for ourselves and for the client and for their goals, and for all of the things is with love and compassion for everybody involved. Stay in alignment
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right? If there's a complaint. Obviously, we want to consider it like, Greg said, and make sure we're addressing it. If we've done something, but otherwise
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): we want to stay in alignment. That's number one.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and the best ways we can stay in alignment is continue to take care of ourselves. Our nervous system do our own inner work
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right work on our own shadows.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): The second piece that you're speaking to I want to pull on because it's another way that this kind of
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): dynamic that we're talking about can get expressed
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): so sometimes, as a client starts to lean in
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): to the thing
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): that they thought they could and should never be, because it's so gross.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): In the case of Latta's boyfriend. We'll call him the client like actually
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): having some vacation.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): There's there's a discomfort
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): in that
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): right.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): And what better way to rid yourself seemingly of discomfort.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): than to project that terrible thing onto another person?
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Right? So, instead of your boyfriend sitting with, Oh, my gosh! I've taken some days off, and I'm taking more days off, and this is new for me, and this feels taboo, and it. It feels really uncomfortable.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): It's just so much easier to be like lot of how can you be so relaxing right? And for like projecting that this comfort outbirds. So that's part of this whole kind of universe of dynamic that we're talking about here that can happen with a client. It's good to be aware of that. But in those moments it's also like yay client. You're doing the thing that's uncomfortable, right? It just happens to be uncomfortable. So
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): get it
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): alright. Anything else before we wrap
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for today.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'd love to hear a last word or 2 on what you're taking.
Melody Noll: Oh, I do have one group.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Dad! Go ahead!
Melody Noll: That I meant to ask you at the Retreat.
Melody Noll: I'm really fascinated with Shadow now, and I was wondering if there's a book you could recommend
Melody Noll: to do more work on this, to learn more about it.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Yeah. So the way that I teach it at there are a couple of answers. Number one, the way that I teach it at the shadow like I need to write a book because.
Melody Noll: I know you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Ideas are not like the hyper, the hy, you know, like, that's just for me working with people for so long. So there's no book that's gonna cover all the things that being said. The 2 things that I often recommend is number one. Go back to the source young like, read anything by you read the Red Book. Just read young because
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): he has so much like just every sentence is is a golden nugget
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): and then the other thing is, I really love. It's a it's related to the work we did, but not exactly. Exactly. I really love Debbie Ford.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I have one of her books on my bookshelf. It's something light. Chasers is the classic one. I can't remember exactly what it's called the other side of the light chaser something like that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): oh, and you purchase the vice. So and then I recommend A podcast which I love, which is the the this youngian life for everyone. It's so good. And yeah, one of the the people from I haven't read that book, but the vital spark. So you have to let us know how it is
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): for the light chasers. That's the debbie for yeah.
Melody Noll: Thank you.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Good. I think that's
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): I'm so glad you asked that.
Joanna Lindenbaum (she/her): Alright. I think that's a great place for us to end. I'm sending so much love to all of you. I'm around for whatever you need, and we're gonna be talking about boundaries in 2 weeks. I can't wait so I'll see you then, or maybe before then bye.